How is China getting on?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I've never heard anyone describe the actions of Ireland (the nation) by the name of the ruling party. Within Ireland, by Irish people, sure, but I've never heard such a thing being applied to other national behavior.

Maybe thats because the ruling party in Ireland changes every few years. China has had the same one for 72 years.

The CCP is a relatively small number of people. I think it is reasonable to refer to the actions of the CCP, not the 1.1 billion people they rule.

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

Isn't Taiwan China cough cough...and an Island.

Vietnam is whole different story.

Lets not start WWIII over it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe thats because the ruling party in Ireland changes every few years. China has had the same one for 72 years.

The CCP is a relatively small number of people. I think it is reasonable to refer to the actions of the CCP, not the 1.1 billion people they rule.

Do you refer to India's Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) when talking about what India has done?

Do you do the same with the US with regards to their two parties? I doubt it.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you refer to India's Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) when talking about what India has done?

Do you do the same with the US with regards to their two parties? I doubt it.

What exactly is your problem with me referring to the CCP?

I don't follow much news in India.

When the US does something yes, I might refer to the actions of Biden or his predecessor, what was his name again?

Yesterday was the Queens Speech in the UK. It wasn't the speech of the people of the United Kingdom.

Flinty997

So how is China getting on. Better than us.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ireland-just-surpassed-china-in-the-number-of-confirmed-covid-19-deaths-how-on-earth-did-that-happen-2021-04-21

About 15% of China’s population has been vaccinated against COVID-19, as of Sunday

Whereas in Ireland,

25% of eligible population has received at least one dose of Covid-19 vaccine....10 per cent of the eligible population had received a second dose of the vaccines.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/almost-25-of-eligible-population-has-received-at-least-one-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine-1.4545673

MikeSoys

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/12/china-has-used-pandemic-to-boost-global-image-report-says

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

Isn't Taiwan China cough cough...and an Island.

Vietnam is whole different story.

Ok. So what’s the story and how does it fortify your position?

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

So how is China getting on. Better than us.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ireland-just-surpassed-china-in-the-number-of-confirmed-covid-19-deaths-how-on-earth-did-that-happen-2021-04-21



Whereas in Ireland,



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/almost-25-of-eligible-population-has-received-at-least-one-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine-1.4545673

My only source of first hand information is in Shaghai, but there life is back to normal. Everything is open.

They are faster for implementing restrictions. If the CCP decided they needed another lockdown, it would start at, say, 3pm that day, and they would have no qualms announcing it at 2.30pm. Here, Michael Martin would announce it on a Monday to start at midnight on Thursday.

China had hotel quarantines last March. It took us a year to implement them here.

The idea that China is a total fortress is just not true. I work with 3 guys in China, and it’s clear they are out and about and living their lives as normal.

fvp4

fvp4 wrote: »

The idea that China is a total fortress is just not true. I work with 3 guys in China, and it’s clear they are out and about and living their lives as normal.

My friend in Shanghai has been back at work since well before Christmas. Had lunch out today. Mask wearing was common before covid, so its no major effort to get the population to wear them.

Flinty997

fvp4 wrote: »

The idea that China is a total fortress is just not true. I work with 3 guys in China, and it’s clear they are out and about and living their lives as normal.

They had people having gigantic pool parties in Wuhan back in Aug. They Lifted their lockdown 9 months ago. That's all pre vaccine.
So they did all this without vaccines. Which is amazing.

Flinty997

Deleted User wrote: »

My only source of first hand information is in Shaghai, but there life is back to normal. Everything is open.

They are faster for implementing restrictions. If the CCP decided they needed another lockdown, it would start at, say, 3pm that day, and they would have no qualms announcing it at 2.30pm. Here, Michael Martin would announce it on a Monday to start at midnight on Thursday.

China had hotel quarantines last March. It took us a year to implement them here.

Fair enough. But they've had surges, they've had breakouts. So its not gone. Its still around.

On one one hand we say they keep having lock downs, but on the other side we are told they are back to normal, and none knows anyone who has ever had Covid. Massive schools not one case.

I'm not saying it all can't be true. But its weird and inconsistent.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

What exactly is your problem with me referring to the CCP?

Because it's a stance that directs a bias. By focusing on the CCP all the time, as opposed to the PRC/China, you lose neutrality, due to all the negative associations linked to the CCP. I find it reinforces the pushing of an agenda.

In any case, I wasn't the first person to object your usage of CCP all the time. I couldn't care less that you assume such a position. Although, I'll happily point to the double standards applied.

I don't follow much news in India.

When the US does something yes, I might refer to the actions of Biden or his predecessor, what was his name again?

Yesterday was the Queens Speech in the UK. It wasn't the speech of the people of the United Kingdom.

As I said, for you, it only applies to China and the CCP. Thanks. You showed clearly the bias that you hold.

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

Fair enough. But they've had surges, they've had breakouts. So its not gone. Its still around.

Of course it's still around. There is no cure, and vaccinations aren't going to stop covid from existing.

On one one hand we say they keep having lock downs, but on the other side we are told they are back to normal, and none knows anyone who has ever had Covid. Massive schools not one case.

I'm not saying it all can't be true. But its weird and inconsistent.

It's not really inconsistent. Flashpoints occur where groups of people get covid, the authorities step in, lockdowns are instigated, and then, when the risk diminishes, the lockdowns are lifted. Rinse and repeat.

The country, for the most part, is back to normal. That's not to say that they're not taking precautions, or that covid doesn't affect people. They've simply decided to run the risk, so that their economy gets back up and running.

There will continue to be outbreaks of covid, and they will continue to respond to them, while encouraging others in the rest of the country to return to normal living.

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

They had people having gigantic pool parties in Wuhan back in Aug. They Lifted their lockdown 9 months ago. That's all pre vaccine.
So they did all this without vaccines. Which is amazing.

Its not in the least bit amazing. They totally locked down in the one city at the epicentre. They have huge internal restrictions on travel. They tightly controlled external travel.

Also this claim that the virus could only have been fully defeated with vaccines is not true either. It won't in fact be defeated with Vaccines, we will need boosters every so often. There will be breakouts and china had some.

thebaz

archer22 wrote: »

What's all the "CCP" nonsense here

The name of the country is "The Peoples Republic of China" or PRC.

Those who keep calling it the CCP obviously have an agenda not an opinion :rolleyes:

or you could see it as a way of not blaming the Chinese people for accusations of negligense or misinformation, but the CCP have questions to answer, given damage caused to rest of world. How virus originated is a legitimate and important question, since we dont want it to happen again.

thebaz

The BBC have reported today on an Independent report , pointing much criticism on WHO , I myself have been sceptical and critical of the WHO response, from masks to its sluggish initial response, maybe the whole disaster could have been avoided, but we certainly need to learn lessons and act .
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-57085505

Yeah, February 2020 in that report singled out. When schools in Vietnam closed and they stopped flights from China, followed by Italy and Korea and then the rest of the world.

Lombardy going crazy and countries the other side of the world banning flights. And people don't understand why the fallouts have been different.

Flinty997

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Because it's a stance that directs a bias. By focusing on the CCP all the time, as opposed to the PRC/China, you lose neutrality, due to all the negative associations linked to the CCP. I find it reinforces the pushing of an agenda.
...

What's the difference between a focus on CCP and a focus on China. Can someone give an example of where those two things are different when it comes to what China does.

Flinty997

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its not in the least bit amazing. They totally locked down in the one city at the epicentre. They have huge internal restrictions on travel. They tightly controlled external travel.

Also this claim that the virus could only have been fully defeated with vaccines is not true either. It won't in fact be defeated with Vaccines, we will need boosters every so often. There will be breakouts and china had some.

Who claiming the virus would be fully defeated?

The idea is that lockdown and containment is a stop gap until you get herd immunity with a vaccine. That brings the number of cases down to a manageable level so you can exit lockdown and resume normal activities. It's not that the virus disappears.

China opened up before the vaccines. That's what people are reporting here, that is all back to normal in China and no sign of any cases.

The opposite happened here first lockdown worked well, but as soon as we relaxed it exploded and it's taken almost 6 months to get back to where we were. We needed the vaccine to get there aswell. Chinese didn't.

Amazing really.

DaSilva

Flinty997 wrote: »

Who claiming the virus would be fully defeated?

The idea is that lockdown and containment is a stop gap until you get herd immunity with a vaccine. That brings the number of cases down to a manageable level so you can exit lockdown and resume normal activities. It's not that the virus disappears.

China opened up before the vaccines. That's what people are reporting here, that is all back to normal in China and no sign of any cases.

The opposite happened here first lockdown worked well, but as soon as we relaxed it exploded and it's taken almost 6 months to get back to where we were. We needed the vaccine to get there aswell. Chinese didn't.

Amazing really.

I think it is because our lockdowns were done to mitigate disease, we ended lockdown when case numbers were very low. On the other hand in China they used their lockdown to eradicate the virus (at least until it gets reintroduced). So they identified all cases by doing mass testing of entire cities that were under lockdown, and when cases were 0 they opened up. I don't blame you for not believing it or being suspicious, it is hard to imagine that is possible, but it seems it is, because it would be very hard for them to conceal an epidemic in their big cities.

Flinty997

DaSilva wrote: »

I think it is because our lockdowns were done to mitigate disease, we ended lockdown when case numbers were very low. On the other hand in China they used their lockdown to eradicate the virus (at least until it gets reintroduced). So they identified all cases by doing mass testing of entire cities that were under lockdown, and when cases were 0 they opened up. I don't blame you for not believing it or being suspicious, it is hard to imagine that is possible, but it seems it is, because it would be very hard for them to conceal an epidemic in their big cities.

Well on one hand we say it's impossible to have 0 cases, then we flip and say China has 0 cases.

Regardless of what China does or said. This thread on its own constantly contradicts itself.

Flinty997

DaSilva wrote: »

.... in China they used their lockdown to eradicate the virus (at least until it gets reintroduced). ....

How does it get reintroduced?

archer22

thebaz wrote: »

or you could see it as a way of not blaming the Chinese people for accusations of negligense or misinformation, but the CCP have questions to answer, given damage caused to rest of world. How virus originated is a legitimate and important question, since we dont want it to happen again.

So your're assuming the government of China caused the pandemic

I thought the generally accepted source of the pandemic was a wet market in Wuhan.
Unless you have some proof the market was owned and run by the Chinese ruling party otherwise your point is moot.

Was the American government responsible for the "Spanish Flu" which originated on a Chicken farm in Kansas?.

Also was BSE caused by the UK government or by greedy agricultural interests?

Flinty997

Flinty997 wrote: »

Well on one hand we say it's impossible to have 0 cases, then we flip and say China has 0 cases.

Regardless of what China does or said. This thread on its own constantly contradicts itself.

How so? I can't recall of anyone who said that they believed the statistics released by China regarding their numbers. A variety of people have spoken about there being little impact of covid in China now... based on their friends, or from videos, but that's different from what you're suggesting.

It's anyone's guess as to what the actual figures are now, or what they were in the past. I've said repeatedly not to trust what the Chinese government releases about covid, or just about anything. They're not going to be honest and open about what's happening.

archer22

In fairness you will never see anybody in China or anywhere in East Asia putting up a Marquee to have an auld hooley during the Pandemic and stating they are happy to accept the consequences!.

The "consequences" would be Tanks driving over it, not a contribution to the local poor box

Flinty997

archer22 wrote: »

In fairness you will never see anybody in China or anywhere in East Asia putting up a Marquee to have an auld hooley during the Pandemic and stating they are happy to accept the consequences!.

The "consequences" would be Tanks driving over it, not a contribution to the local poor box

In fairness they seem to have holiday special camps, socially distanced in remote areas for that kinda of thing.

Flinty997

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How so? I can't recall of anyone who said that they believed the statistics released by China regarding their numbers. ....

I was never really taking about the numbers. They are just context of timeline of the response to the virus. I just think it's odd to have such a slow roll out of the vaccine when they had such a headstart. Or why exclude elderly when they are the ones who it mostly effects. I know they are including them now.

But I guess if they've mostly eradicated it without the vaccine then it's mostly irrelevant for them. Unlike the rest of the world.

Flinty997

Anyway China's grand basically.

thebaz

archer22 wrote: »

So your're assuming the government of China caused the pandemic

I thought the generally accepted source of the pandemic was a wet market in Wuhan.
Unless you have some proof the market was owned and run by the Chinese ruling party otherwise your point is moot.

I'm assuming nothing , I merly asked the question how the virus originated ??

It has not definitvly been proven to have started in a wet market, it could have been an accident - I dont believe the Chinese goverment intentionally caused the pandemic, but I would like some answers on how it started - not going to get that answer here I know.