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Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

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    #1442
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I don’t believe it is an unnecessary plan at all. Some of the detail can be worked out to minimise some of the issues that arise from it, whether that’s one way systems with a separate cycle lane instead of blocked roads. That can be for the consultation process to inform

    But something needs to be done about the upper glen road. It is a sh1tshow on a busy day. Cars flying two ways, around blind corners, with some of the worst grass-verge-parking in the whole of the park. Add in this being a popular part of the park for families and cyclists (including kids with their parents) and you have a sh1tshow. IMO that road needs to be blocked like military road and open it up to recreational users like the area around magazine fort is. With acres road open you don’t need upper glen road as either a rat-run nor a circular route.

    Just enforce the rules that makes it illegal to park on the verges. FPNs or similar would do nicely


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    #1443
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,871 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Weepsie wrote: »
    Just enforce the rules that makes it illegal to park on the verges. FPNs or similar would do nicely

    FPN how and for what exactly?

    The Road Traffic Acts don't apply to the interior of the Park. The Guards don't have a traffic function within, save for any public safety measure they agree with the Rangers. There isn't even a park bye-law against parking on the grass verges. 'Please don't park here' stickers are as good as it gets.

    At the same time, I don't think people should park on the verges, but the notion of setting the cops on them for it, is bogus.


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    #1444
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    FPN how and for what exactly?

    The Road Traffic Acts don't apply to the interior of the Park. The Guards don't have a traffic function within, save for any public safety measure they agree with the Rangers. There isn't even a park bye-law against parking on the grass verges. 'Please don't park here' stickers are as good as it gets.

    At the same time, I don't think people should park on the verges, but the notion of setting the cops on them for it, is bogus.

    Richmond park in London is the closest comparable. And no one would ever park on a verge. You know that you’ll get towed within minutes, and it’s now so ingrained that no one would even try. That’s what is needed. And if the rangers don’t have the authority of the parks police in London, then absolutely they should invite Garda traffic to start ticketing people. And it’s not like there is loads of parking - c 1500 spaces for a bigger park

    In my opinion


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    #1445
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    FPN how and for what exactly?

    The Road Traffic Acts don't apply to the interior of the Park. The Guards don't have a traffic function within, save for any public safety measure they agree with the Rangers. There isn't even a park bye-law against parking on the grass verges. 'Please don't park here' stickers are as good as it gets.

    At the same time, I don't think people should park on the verges, but the notion of setting the cops on them for it, is bogus.

    It is explicitly in the s.i. of 1926 to amend the phoenix park act. This is the same one that gives the commissioners the powers to open and close gates too. No vehicles other than bicycles or tricycles on grass. Also vehicles can't be stationary on upper glen road (where they bloody love to stop) either

    A 2008 s.i. gives gardai the powers to enforce the rules that are in this act too. Its intention seems to be to give them powers to enforce rules in place during events, but it broadly gives them powers to enforce all rules from the 1925 act and subsequent s.i.


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    #1446
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    @Treppen, calm down, it was a joke, but they can just start charging to enter the park, 1euro for a car, 2euro for a cyclists and 3euro for a walk in. You would be given a coupon on entre which could be redeemable at the ice cream van at the zoo.


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    #1447
    stabaak
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭stabaak


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I don’t believe it is an unnecessary plan at all. Some of the detail can be worked out to minimise some of the issues that arise from it, whether that’s one way systems with a separate cycle lane instead of blocked roads. That can be for the consultation process to inform

    But something needs to be done about the upper glen road. It is a sh1tshow on a busy day. Cars flying two ways, around blind corners, with some of the worst grass-verge-parking in the whole of the park. Add in this being a popular part of the park for families and cyclists (including kids with their parents) and you have a sh1tshow. IMO that road needs to be blocked like military road and open it up to recreational users like the area around magazine fort is. With acres road open you don’t need upper glen road as either a rat-run nor a circular route.

    Cars “flying two ways around blind corners” aren’t the only problem. . What about the Lycra clad road warriors cyclists who seem to think the park is a stage in the Tour de France or the couple of triathlon clubs that use the roads as personal training grounds.
    Cyclists(not all) regularly break the speed limit putting other park users , walkers , runners etc in danger.


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    #1448
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Bikes are not subject to the speed limits as set out in the RTA.

    I've never put a walker or runner in danger on my bike, but I've had a woefully high number of people step out in front of me, walk in the cycle lanes or have their dogs run across my path when they should be on a leash.


    There are definitely some cyclists in the park that I would question their handling/roadcraft and awareness, and it's more pronounced at the moment as it's where a lot more people are exercising, but in general, you're talking mostly nonsense.


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    #1449
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    stabaak wrote: »
    Cars “flying two ways around blind corners” aren’t the only problem. . What about the Lycra clad road warriors cyclists who seem to think the park is a stage in the Tour de France or the couple of triathlon clubs that use the roads as personal training grounds.
    Cyclists(not all) regularly break the speed limit putting other park users , walkers , runners etc in danger.

    You are actually kidding me, right?

    Maybe they aren’t the only problem. But they are 100 times bigger than any others (compounded by the bad parking) on that bendy stretch of road


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    #1450
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    stabaak wrote: »
    Cars “flying two ways around blind corners” aren’t the only problem. . What about the Lycra clad road warriors cyclists who seem to think the park is a stage in the Tour de France or the couple of triathlon clubs that use the roads as personal training grounds.
    Cyclists(not all) regularly break the speed limit putting other park users , walkers , runners etc in danger.

    Lol. Do many cyclists really travel above 50kph?


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    #1451
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    This is where we should add , that in the past number of years a cyclist was killed entering the park by a driver "who didn't see them" but had seen them too.

    Anotehr cyclist was killed when a jogger decided that the cycle lane was the place for them to be one night.

    Then there's the awful, and thankfully exceptional and not ordinary case of the toddler killed by the f*cker who shouldn't have been at the wheel of a vehicle near the Hole in the Wall. That's 6-7 years ago, and still that spot is used for cars to park up on. I wonder if people ever even notice the small memorial there or pay it any heed.


    Buy yes,cyclists are the problem.


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    #1452
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,840 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Weepsie wrote: »
    Anotehr cyclist was killed when a jogger decided that the cycle lane was the place for them to be one night.

    Are you are referring to the incident in 2017 when a cyclist collided with a walker in the cycle lane at around 8:50pm in May?

    I've always thought the design of the path/cycleway combination on Chesterfield is not fit for purpose. You can totally see why pedestrians move towards the lit route on the avenue instead of the quite dark paths.


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    #1453
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    For every accident you post up of car been at fault I'm sure someone can post up we're cyclist is at fault, you can go around in circles with this argument but how do we all use the road safely together, you can't ban all cars and you can't ban cyclist so what do we do,? You can keep going around in circles blaming each other, in other countries they have a step up of the road which clearly seperates both road users, can we do that or maybe something different,


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    #1454
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,167 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    For every accident you post up of car been at fault I'm sure someone can post up we're cyclist is at fault,

    You actually can't.


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    #1455
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,091 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    For every accident you post up of car been at fault I'm sure someone can post up we're cyclist is at fault,
    I'm not aware of any "accidents" where the car was at fault. I assume there are some but not many in the grand scheme of things.
    However, drivers are responsible for far more incidents including fatalitites than cyclists. This is an undisputable fact.


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    #1456
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    I understand that the motorist is going to be blamed, that's because of the laws in this country but if people are been honest with themself's that's should not always be the case, I think everyone here has seen both cyclist's and car/bus/truck drivers do stupit manovers on the road, do we need to change the laws regarding what penalties cyclist receive, we know what penalties drivers receive, should cyclists be fined for pull straight out in front of a car causing an accident if caught on cam, should there be a registration process for all new bicycles so they can be identified, what is the solution? There is good and bad behaviour on both sides but going around in circles blaming each other is not going to solve it, so what is the answer?


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    #1457
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    I understand that the motorist is going to be blamed, that's because of the laws in this country but if people are been honest with themself's that's should not always be the case, I think everyone here has seen both cyclist's and car/bus/truck drivers do stupit manovers on the road, do we need to change the laws regarding what penalties cyclist receive, we know what penalties drivers receive, should cyclists be fined for pull straight out in front of a car causing an accident if caught on cam, should there be a registration process for all new bicycles so they can be identified, what is the solution? There is good and bad behaviour on both sides but going around in circles blaming each other is not going to solve it, so what is the answer?

    What do you mean by the cyclist causing an accident? If they cycle out in front of a car and get hit is it?


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    #1458
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    Do you mean cyclist can not cause accidents?? Everyone who uses the road has a responsibility


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    #1459
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,091 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    Do you mean cyclist can not cause accidents?? Everyone who uses the road has a responsibility
    Nobody suggested that.
    However, you're looking to blame cyclists for something that occurs in low numbers and are deliberately ignoring the elephant in the room.


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    #1460
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    Do you mean cyclist can not cause accidents?? Everyone who uses the road has a responsibility


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    #1461
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    Nobody is trying to blam anybody, why do you think that


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    #1462
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,091 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    Do you mean cyclist can not cause accidents?? Everyone who uses the road has a responsibility
    Apologies, I thought my post was fairly clear. I'm not quite sure how to make it easier for you to understand though.


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    #1463
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    Two questions, 1..Do you think cyclists should take responsibility for their actions 2.. Do you think motorist should take responsibility for there actions


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    #1464
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,091 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    Two questions, 1..Do you think cyclists should take responsibility for their actions 2.. Do you think motorist should take responsibility for there actions
    I don't believe that I've suggested that they should not.
    However, you seem to be pursuing an anti-cycling agenda because someone on a bike may have done something whilst the vast majority of drivers admit to breaking the laws which in theory is far more dangerous and which is why the authorities tackle this.

    Now shall we get back to discussing the Phoenix Park?


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    #1465
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    Don't know we're your getting the anti cycling side from it, how do you solve the issues in the park? do you ban cars? or is that anti drivers


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    #1466
    VonLuck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    I don't think these discussions about cyclists breaking rules are really relevant in the Phoenix Park. There are no traffic lights or footpaths to mount which seem to be the primary issues for non-cyclists. You could in fact say that pedestrians are the biggest offenders as they continually use the bike lane on the North Road, although I can't fully blame them because it's a flawed design not to have a footpath on that side of the road.


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    #1467
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,091 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    Don't know we're your getting the anti cycling side from it, how do you solve the issues in the park? do you ban cars? or is that anti drivers
    Personally, I don't think that the Park should be used as a rat run - no through access for any vehicles apart from emergency vehicles.
    I'd like to see measures to slow cars right down. Cars should not have priority anywhere over pedestrians and cyclists.
    I'd like to see proper enforcement of parking and swift fines for all illegally parked cars. These fines should be sufficient to discourage anyone from parking illegally.


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    #1468
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    So only one way in/out for cars, do you not think that will only create more of a build up in one are when people drive to the park for a day out, I agree speed limits should be enforced and proper traffic calming put in place, at the moment one third of the road on Chesterfield avenue has been taken for cycling and no parking allowed on that road which I agree with, is that enough space or is the issue with proper segregation between cyclist and other traffic. I feel proper segregation is need so people can cycle and know that they can not veer out into traffic and traffic can not come into cyclists space.


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    #1469
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Joe4321 wrote: »
    You can keep going around in circles blaming each other, in other countries they have a step up of the road which clearly seperates both road users, can we do that or maybe something different,

    Be great if we had trials for this sort of infrastructure, wouldn't it...:rolleyes:


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    #1470
    Joe4321
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Joe4321


    Maybe they can put a few potted plants along the road, now we're did I see that again....


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    #1471
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,871 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Weepsie wrote: »
    Be great if we had trials for this sort of infrastructure, wouldn't it...:rolleyes:

    No.


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