Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

stabaak

Weepsie wrote: »

Bikes are not subject to the speed limits as set out in the RTA.

I've never put a walker or runner in danger on my bike, but I've had a woefully high number of people step out in front of me, walk in the cycle lanes or have their dogs run across my path when they should be on a leash.


There are definitely some cyclists in the park that I would question their handling/roadcraft and awareness, and it's more pronounced at the moment as it's where a lot more people are exercising, but in general, you're talking mostly nonsense.

Please explain why I’m talking nonsense!
My wife grew up in the park , her parents live in one of the lodges and her father is a OPW ranger in the park so I think il take my information from people who actually deal with the issues in the park on a daily basis over the anti car / Tour de Phoenix Park brigade . The park has and always be for everyone use. Cyclists, motorists and some runners share the roads in the park a bit of common sense on all parts would go a long way.
Also I know residents in the park have voiced their concerns to OPW and local TDs over the proposed new changes as it will create a bigger traffic issue in the surrounding castleknock , cabra and chapelizod areas. Also they are concerned that the groups of cyclists that currently use it as ther or own personal race / track will increase.

Weepsie

You're talking nonsense, because the threat of it become sort of playground like that is fantasy. Once the 5km restrictions are up, the number of cyclists using it is going to drop sharply.

The park has some old rules strictly prohibiting much of what it is that the owners of vehicles do with their cars. These are routinely ignored, and that is the problem.

In the park, the vast, vast majority of issues due to tight road space is the abundance of vehicular traffic which the park was not intended to carry. It should not be a bypass, it should not be a park and go facility as it was for so long, it should not be anything other than an amenity in of itself.

Wilbury Twist

It probably won't be a popular view but if you live in Dublin there is no excuse for driving a privately owned car to the Phoenix Park. The Phoenix Park Navan Road/Halfway House entrance is very well served by buses 38,39,70 are all very frequent and with Bus Connects will be even more so.

There is also the Dart at Castleknock and Navan Road Parkway, all a short walk to the Park from there. The only exception where cars should be permitted in the Phoenix Park in my view is for people who have existing disability permits.

People don't expect to be able to drive up and park at the entrance of Croke Park or the Aviva stadium, the Phoenix Park should be no different.

stabaak

Weepsie wrote: »

You're talking nonsense, because the threat of it become sort of playground like that is fantasy. Once the 5km restrictions are up, the number of cyclists using it is going to drop sharply.

The park has some old rules strictly prohibiting much of what it is that the owners of vehicles do with their cars. These are routinely ignored, and that is the problem.

In the park, the vast, vast majority of issues due to tight road space is the abundance of vehicular traffic which the park was not intended to carry. It should not be a bypass, it should not be a park and go facility as it was for so long, it should not be anything other than an amenity in of itself.

Oh I see . . Anyone who doesn’t go along with what u say or expresses an opinion that u don’t agree with or doesn’t suits ur agenda they are talking “nonsense” and concerns of people who actually live in the park are fantasy . . Good lad !

Larbre34

There certainly is at the moment, when all non essential travel on public transport remains discouraged and services themselves are at 25% capacity.

In fact, if it hadn't been for the restrictions on public transport and other services this past year and the consequent reduction in plentiful car parking within the Park, we wouldn't even be having this review of traffic and transport.

Weepsie

stabaak wrote: »

Weepsie wrote: »

You're talking nonsense, because the threat of it become sort of playground like that is fantasy. Once the 5km restrictions are up, the number of cyclists using it is going to drop sharply.

The park has some old rules strictly prohibiting much of what it is that the owners of vehicles do with their cars. These are routinely ignored, and that is the problem.

In the park, the vast, vast majority of issues due to tight road space is the abundance of vehicular traffic which the park was not intended to carry. It should not be a bypass, it should not be a park and go facility as it was for so long, it should not be anything other than an amenity in of itself.

Oh I see . . Anyone who doesn’t go along with what u say or expresses an opinion that u don’t agree with or doesn’t suits ur agenda they are talking “nonsense” and concerns of people who actually live in the park are fantasy . . Good lad !

No, just that your assertion about lycra clad warriors is absolute nonsense because that's all it is

ligerdub

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The plans include parking for about 1300 cars if I recall correctly. There may be charges for this parking. So how does this match your view that they are trying to stop people from driving to the park?
Is this not enough spaces for you?

It isn't enough spaces no, and the idea that they are going to potentially charge for parking is a real shame in my opinion.

It would match my view that they are trying to stop people driving to the park yes, I mean that much seems pretty clear.

I'm not sure if your post was suggesting it would be otherwise, but you couldn't have proved my (and likely other peoples) view better.

beauf

Wilbury Twist wrote: »

It probably won't be a popular view but if you live in Dublin there is no excuse for driving a privately owned car to the Phoenix Park. The Phoenix Park Navan Road/Halfway House entrance is very well served by buses 38,39,70 are all very frequent and with Bus Connects will be even more so.

There is also the Dart at Castleknock and Navan Road Parkway, all a short walk to the Park from there. The only exception where cars should be permitted in the Phoenix Park in my view is for people who have existing disability permits.

People don't expect to be able to drive up and park at the entrance of Croke Park or the Aviva stadium, the Phoenix Park should be no different.

They finally built the Dart to the Park. They kept that quiet.

In fairness you don't need to drive anywhere in Dublin by that logic. It's all as equally well served by public transport and the " Dart" as the Park is.

Weepsie

It depends. Is the plan using Farmleigh as part of those 1300 or not. Farmleigh has 4-500 spaces while the rest of the park has about 700 or so designated spaces in the existing car parks. Adding another 600 spaces is more than enough.

From Mon-Friday chesterfield avenue was abused as a park and ride facility, and it got worse when the Luas arrived. Some park and cycle, which again the park shouldn't ever be for.

We need to reduce car journeys. We already know that a massive amount of car journeys are less than a couple of km and absolutely needless. The unwillingness on so many to even try is just brutal.

liamog

Weepsie wrote: »

From Mon-Friday chesterfield avenue was abused as a park and ride facility, and it got worse when the Luas arrived. Some park and cycle, which again the park shouldn't ever be for.

We need to reduce car journeys. We already know that a massive amount of car journeys are less than a couple of km and absolutely needless. The unwillingness on so many to even try is just brutal.

In all reality, what harm was done by commuters park and biking in Phoenix Park Monday to Friday?

beauf

The worse congestion and abuse was on fine days at weekends by people using the park. Ban them all.

beauf

Wilbury Twist wrote: »

..... The only exception where cars should be permitted in the Phoenix Park in my view is for people who have existing disability permits. ...

All those people working in the park, hospitals, nursing homes, business's, cafes, Ambassadors, Presidents, Garda, the can all walk from the Dart. Do them good.

beauf

Weepsie wrote: »

It depends. Is the plan using Farmleigh as part of those 1300 or not. Farmleigh has 4-500 spaces while the rest of the park has about 700 or ...

Since there are external entrances to Farmleigh and there's even a park gate at the current entrance to Farmleigh that they keep closed. They prefer to keep them all closed and run all the traffic through the park. So theres obviously a problem with the external gates. So blocking cars from going through park means the only way to Farmleigh would be on foot.

Less crowded on busy days. That would make it much nicer as well. So win win. Same with the Zoo.

ligerdub

Weepsie wrote: »

We need to reduce car journeys. We already know that a massive amount of car journeys are less than a couple of km and absolutely needless. The unwillingness on so many to even try is just brutal.

Do we? I missed that one.

In any event what we really need is more carrot and less stick. I think most people would be more than happy to shelve the car if there was a viable reliable and cost-effective alternative to driving (irrespective of destination). I know I would. I don't drive to the park myself as I'm quite local, so I'm not speaking out of selfish interest. I speak out of knowing the value it brings to my lifestyle and wish others could have the same level of access as me.

All very well to say that Blackhorse avenue is well serviced by bus. That's great.......for a very small element of people from where buses that serve that area leave from. That's a complete non-argument in my opinion. You'd also have to factor in that buses are stop start. Unless you plan on staying there for hours there's no point in taking a stop-start method to get there.

Let's stop pretending that the park actually has good public transport access, it doesn't. That's probably why so many people drive through it. It's not diabolical but it's not exactly convenient.

I'd love to see a properly serviced public transport facility throughout the county. It would be satisfactory for the green obsessed, for those seeking not to spend their lives in traffic, for the convenience of not having to remember where you parked....the list goes on. It's not there though, and I guarantee any shuttle plan would be another disaster.

I think the greatest indication of the government (or council....whatever) real approach to this was shown last summer. At a time when people were already demoralised and in need of a bit of recreation with so little choice available........rather than make it easy for people, they decided to take a deliberately nasty and inconvenient tactic by creating huge bottlenecks in the park. It led to the inevitable enormous tailbacks and viral videos of traffic at a standstill in the park. That was a deliberate method to annoy those people and I found it particularly egregious and I felt bad for them.

Let's bin the stick, bring the carrot. Until then, put it back to the old way and stop this nonsense proposal.

stabaak

Weepsie wrote: »

No, just that your assertion about lycra clad warriors is absolute nonsense because that's all it is

No I don’t think it is to be fair.

ligerdub

liamog wrote: »

In all reality, what harm was done by commuters park and biking in Phoenix Park Monday to Friday?

None. It's a complete non-issue.

Hurrache

Wilbury Twist wrote: »

It probably won't be a popular view but if you live in Dublin there is no excuse for driving a privately owned car to the Phoenix Park. The Phoenix Park Navan Road/Halfway House entrance is very well served by buses 38,39,70 are all very frequent and with Bus Connects will be even more so.

There is also the Dart at Castleknock and Navan Road Parkway, all a short walk to the Park from there. The only exception where cars should be permitted in the Phoenix Park in my view is for people who have existing disability permits.

People don't expect to be able to drive up and park at the entrance of Croke Park or the Aviva stadium, the Phoenix Park should be no different.

Large parts of west Dublin, closest to the park, are not served directly by bus to the park. So if your heading there with your kids, it's a short and easy drive away.

Hurrache

liamog wrote: »

In all reality, what harm was done by commuters park and biking in Phoenix Park Monday to Friday?

ligerdub wrote: »

None. It's a complete non-issue.

With rush hour traffic, and people coming and going using it as a commuter carpark, the park was basically unusable for anything else for a few hours every weekday evening.

beauf

Hurrache wrote: »

Large parts of west Dublin, closest to the park, are not served directly by bus to the park. So if your heading there with your kids, it's a short and easy drive away.

Well it shouldn't be. It's should be an hour round trip in public transport. Why would you want it any other way.

stabaak

Weepsie wrote: »

It depends. Is the plan using Farmleigh as part of those 1300 or not. Farmleigh has 4-500 spaces while the rest of the park has about 700 or so designated spaces in the existing car parks. Adding another 600 spaces is more than enough.

From Mon-Friday chesterfield avenue was abused as a park and ride facility, and it got worse when the Luas arrived. Some park and cycle, which again the park shouldn't ever be for.

We need to reduce car journeys. We already know that a massive amount of car journeys are less than a couple of km and absolutely needless. The unwillingness on so many to even try is just brutal.

Is int great that we live in a country where citizens have a right to choose what mode of transport they use to commute be by bike, car, bus , scooter etc
Ur anti motorist agenda and lack of acceptance of how other people (mainly motorists) choose how they commute shines through very clearly.

stabaak

Hurrache wrote: »

With rush hour traffic, and people coming and going using it as a commuter carpark, the park was basically unusable for anything else for a few hours every weekday evening.

Just out of curiosity what did the cars parked in the hard shoulder on chesterfield avenue make it unusable? What where / are u looking to do in the hard shoulder or main road

Larbre34

Hurrache wrote: »

With rush hour traffic, and people coming and going using it as a commuter carpark, the park was basically unusable for anything else for a few hours every weekday evening.

Patent nonsense.

beauf

Hurrache wrote: »

With rush hour traffic, and people coming and going using it as a commuter carpark, the park was basically unusable for anything else for a few hours every weekday evening.

If it was unusable, all that traffic wouldn't use it...

I've commuted through the park for years. Much of it on a bicycle. The majority of the time it was mostly empty. But it's hardly surprisingly it backs up. Most of the gates are single lane. They don't limit the number of cars that can enter it. Gallon into a pint pot.

Hurrache

stabaak wrote: »

Just out of curiosity what did the cars parked in the hard shoulder on chesterfield avenue make it unusable? What where / are u looking to do in the hard shoulder or main road

Why do you think I wanted to do anything on the main road or hard shoulder?
It's a simple matter of volume and congestion.

Larbre34 wrote: »

Patent nonsense.

No need to patent it, people won't be rushing to share your views.

beauf wrote: »

all that traffic wouldn't use it...

Now things are starting to click... You literally made the point I made. It's fine throughout the day, but sensible people avoiding driving to visit it at rush hour because of all that traffic using it

Weepsie

stabaak wrote: »

Is int great that we live in a country where citizens have a right to choose what mode of transport they use to commute be by bike, car, bus , scooter etc
Ur anti motorist agenda and lack of acceptance of how other people (mainly motorists) choose how they commute shines through very clearly.

I'm not anti motorist, and I at times need to use our car like anyone else does, but we've long gone past the point of capacity on our roads. There are too many single occupancy, private vehicles taking up public space. It shouldn't take someone over an hour to get from city centre to say Blanchardstown but in normal times this is not uncommon due to the volumes of traffic.

A massive percentage of our commute journeys are so short that they are walkable for most people. An awful lot more are easily doable by bike being not much further. Public transport for sure needs to improve, but something has shifted in so many in this country, in that people think we are L.A. or something and a car is essential to get anywhere, when in reality it's not, particularly in Dublin.

Rural and commuters from further afield have fewer options.

There is a net benefit to us all if there is a reduction in such use.

The park is a heritage site, a nature reserve and a public amenity. If people want to use it to store their private property, they should pay for it.

beauf

Hurrache wrote: »

....Now things are starting to click... You literally made the point I made. It's fine throughout the day, but sensible people avoiding driving to visit it at rush hour because of all that traffic using it

Anyone cycling knows that exactly when the cycle paths are full of walkers and runners. A lot of people stop on their way home or finish work and head to park.

This idea that people using the park don't cause a lot of the congestion is a fiction. Look at the weekends when it's swamped.

blanch152

Weepsie wrote: »

I'm not anti motorist, and I at times need to use our car like anyone else does, but we've long gone past the point of capacity on our roads. There are too many single occupancy, private vehicles taking up public space. It shouldn't take someone over an hour to get from city centre to say Blanchardstown but in normal times this is not uncommon due to the volumes of traffic.

A massive percentage of our commute journeys are so short that they are walkable for most people. An awful lot more are easily doable by bike being not much further. Public transport for sure needs to improve, but something has shifted in so many in this country, in that people think we are L.A. or something and a car is essential to get anywhere, when in reality it's not, particularly in Dublin.

Rural and commuters from further afield have fewer options.

There is a net benefit to us all if there is a reduction in such use.

The park is a heritage site, a nature reserve and a public amenity. If people want to use it to store their private property, they should pay for it.

If it is a public amenity, people need to get there. Take the Bois du Bologne in Paris, it has far more cars parking in it than the Phoenix Park. Large swathes of the Phoenix Park are barely used by the public and the plan should be focussing on increasing the public numbers and providing an outlet for people.

beauf

blanch152 wrote: »

If it is a public amenity, people need to get there. Take the Bois du Bologne in Paris, it has far more cars parking in it than the Phoenix Park. Large swathes of the Phoenix Park are barely used by the public and the plan should be focussing on increasing the public numbers and providing an outlet for people.

There are too many cars no doubt. But it's poorly planned. Most parks have parking at the entrance so you don't have to drive though it. The OPW does this backwards.

It's also a main route. If you want to remove a main route, replace it with improvements on other routes and forms of transport. But there is very little going to happen on those routes for decades. The reality is traffic all over Dublin is going to get a lot worse. Not better.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

There are too many cars no doubt. But it's poorly planned. Most parks have parking at the entrance so you don't have to drive though it. The OPW does this backwards.

It's also a main route. If you want to remove a main route, replace it with improvements on other routes and forms of transport. But there is very little going to happen on those routes for decades. The reality is traffic all over Dublin is going to get a lot worse. Not better.

Chesterfield Avenue is a main route. Don’t think anyone would argue with that. The rest of the park isn’t, and should be planned accordingly to allow access to car parks but to block circular through routes

beauf

Deleted User wrote: »

Chesterfield Avenue is a main route. Don’t think anyone would argue with that. The rest of the park isn’t, and should be planned accordingly to allow access to car parks but to block circular through routes

Well the OPW close Chesterfield Avenue in the summer at thw weekends and push that traffic down the quieter parts of the park. So really the OPW seems to think they are interchangeable.