Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

Joe4321

@Treppen, calm down, it was a joke, but they can just start charging to enter the park, 1euro for a car, 2euro for a cyclists and 3euro for a walk in. You would be given a coupon on entre which could be redeemable at the ice cream van at the zoo.

stabaak

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don’t believe it is an unnecessary plan at all. Some of the detail can be worked out to minimise some of the issues that arise from it, whether that’s one way systems with a separate cycle lane instead of blocked roads. That can be for the consultation process to inform

But something needs to be done about the upper glen road. It is a sh1tshow on a busy day. Cars flying two ways, around blind corners, with some of the worst grass-verge-parking in the whole of the park. Add in this being a popular part of the park for families and cyclists (including kids with their parents) and you have a sh1tshow. IMO that road needs to be blocked like military road and open it up to recreational users like the area around magazine fort is. With acres road open you don’t need upper glen road as either a rat-run nor a circular route.

Cars “flying two ways around blind corners” aren’t the only problem. . What about the Lycra clad road warriors cyclists who seem to think the park is a stage in the Tour de France or the couple of triathlon clubs that use the roads as personal training grounds.
Cyclists(not all) regularly break the speed limit putting other park users , walkers , runners etc in danger.

stabaak

stabaak wrote: »

Cars “flying two ways around blind corners” aren’t the only problem. . What about the Lycra clad road warriors cyclists who seem to think the park is a stage in the Tour de France or the couple of triathlon clubs that use the roads as personal training grounds.
Cyclists(not all) regularly break the speed limit putting other park users , walkers , runners etc in danger.

You are actually kidding me, right?

Maybe they aren’t the only problem. But they are 100 times bigger than any others (compounded by the bad parking) on that bendy stretch of road

Pinch Flat

stabaak wrote: »

Cars “flying two ways around blind corners” aren’t the only problem. . What about the Lycra clad road warriors cyclists who seem to think the park is a stage in the Tour de France or the couple of triathlon clubs that use the roads as personal training grounds.
Cyclists(not all) regularly break the speed limit putting other park users , walkers , runners etc in danger.

Lol. Do many cyclists really travel above 50kph?

liamog

Weepsie wrote: »

Anotehr cyclist was killed when a jogger decided that the cycle lane was the place for them to be one night.

Are you are referring to the incident in 2017 when a cyclist collided with a walker in the cycle lane at around 8:50pm in May?

I've always thought the design of the path/cycleway combination on Chesterfield is not fit for purpose. You can totally see why pedestrians move towards the lit route on the avenue instead of the quite dark paths.

Joe4321

For every accident you post up of car been at fault I'm sure someone can post up we're cyclist is at fault, you can go around in circles with this argument but how do we all use the road safely together, you can't ban all cars and you can't ban cyclist so what do we do,? You can keep going around in circles blaming each other, in other countries they have a step up of the road which clearly seperates both road users, can we do that or maybe something different,

Hurrache

Joe4321 wrote: »

For every accident you post up of car been at fault I'm sure someone can post up we're cyclist is at fault,

You actually can't.

Seth Brundle

Joe4321 wrote: »

For every accident you post up of car been at fault I'm sure someone can post up we're cyclist is at fault,

I'm not aware of any "accidents" where the car was at fault. I assume there are some but not many in the grand scheme of things.
However, drivers are responsible for far more incidents including fatalitites than cyclists. This is an undisputable fact.

Joe4321

I understand that the motorist is going to be blamed, that's because of the laws in this country but if people are been honest with themself's that's should not always be the case, I think everyone here has seen both cyclist's and car/bus/truck drivers do stupit manovers on the road, do we need to change the laws regarding what penalties cyclist receive, we know what penalties drivers receive, should cyclists be fined for pull straight out in front of a car causing an accident if caught on cam, should there be a registration process for all new bicycles so they can be identified, what is the solution? There is good and bad behaviour on both sides but going around in circles blaming each other is not going to solve it, so what is the answer?

Joe4321

Joe4321 wrote: »

I understand that the motorist is going to be blamed, that's because of the laws in this country but if people are been honest with themself's that's should not always be the case, I think everyone here has seen both cyclist's and car/bus/truck drivers do stupit manovers on the road, do we need to change the laws regarding what penalties cyclist receive, we know what penalties drivers receive, should cyclists be fined for pull straight out in front of a car causing an accident if caught on cam, should there be a registration process for all new bicycles so they can be identified, what is the solution? There is good and bad behaviour on both sides but going around in circles blaming each other is not going to solve it, so what is the answer?

What do you mean by the cyclist causing an accident? If they cycle out in front of a car and get hit is it?

Joe4321

Do you mean cyclist can not cause accidents?? Everyone who uses the road has a responsibility

Seth Brundle

Joe4321 wrote: »

Do you mean cyclist can not cause accidents?? Everyone who uses the road has a responsibility

Nobody suggested that.
However, you're looking to blame cyclists for something that occurs in low numbers and are deliberately ignoring the elephant in the room.

Joe4321

Do you mean cyclist can not cause accidents?? Everyone who uses the road has a responsibility

Joe4321

Nobody is trying to blam anybody, why do you think that

Seth Brundle

Joe4321 wrote: »

Do you mean cyclist can not cause accidents?? Everyone who uses the road has a responsibility

Apologies, I thought my post was fairly clear. I'm not quite sure how to make it easier for you to understand though.

Joe4321

Two questions, 1..Do you think cyclists should take responsibility for their actions 2.. Do you think motorist should take responsibility for there actions

Seth Brundle

Joe4321 wrote: »

Two questions, 1..Do you think cyclists should take responsibility for their actions 2.. Do you think motorist should take responsibility for there actions

I don't believe that I've suggested that they should not.
However, you seem to be pursuing an anti-cycling agenda because someone on a bike may have done something whilst the vast majority of drivers admit to breaking the laws which in theory is far more dangerous and which is why the authorities tackle this.

Now shall we get back to discussing the Phoenix Park?

Joe4321

Don't know we're your getting the anti cycling side from it, how do you solve the issues in the park? do you ban cars? or is that anti drivers

VonLuck

I don't think these discussions about cyclists breaking rules are really relevant in the Phoenix Park. There are no traffic lights or footpaths to mount which seem to be the primary issues for non-cyclists. You could in fact say that pedestrians are the biggest offenders as they continually use the bike lane on the North Road, although I can't fully blame them because it's a flawed design not to have a footpath on that side of the road.

Seth Brundle

Joe4321 wrote: »

Don't know we're your getting the anti cycling side from it, how do you solve the issues in the park? do you ban cars? or is that anti drivers

Personally, I don't think that the Park should be used as a rat run - no through access for any vehicles apart from emergency vehicles.
I'd like to see measures to slow cars right down. Cars should not have priority anywhere over pedestrians and cyclists.
I'd like to see proper enforcement of parking and swift fines for all illegally parked cars. These fines should be sufficient to discourage anyone from parking illegally.

Joe4321

So only one way in/out for cars, do you not think that will only create more of a build up in one are when people drive to the park for a day out, I agree speed limits should be enforced and proper traffic calming put in place, at the moment one third of the road on Chesterfield avenue has been taken for cycling and no parking allowed on that road which I agree with, is that enough space or is the issue with proper segregation between cyclist and other traffic. I feel proper segregation is need so people can cycle and know that they can not veer out into traffic and traffic can not come into cyclists space.

Joe4321

Maybe they can put a few potted plants along the road, now we're did I see that again....

Larbre34

Weepsie wrote: »

Be great if we had trials for this sort of infrastructure, wouldn't it...:rolleyes:

No.

stabaak

Weepsie wrote: »

Bikes are not subject to the speed limits as set out in the RTA.

I've never put a walker or runner in danger on my bike, but I've had a woefully high number of people step out in front of me, walk in the cycle lanes or have their dogs run across my path when they should be on a leash.


There are definitely some cyclists in the park that I would question their handling/roadcraft and awareness, and it's more pronounced at the moment as it's where a lot more people are exercising, but in general, you're talking mostly nonsense.

Please explain why I’m talking nonsense!
My wife grew up in the park , her parents live in one of the lodges and her father is a OPW ranger in the park so I think il take my information from people who actually deal with the issues in the park on a daily basis over the anti car / Tour de Phoenix Park brigade . The park has and always be for everyone use. Cyclists, motorists and some runners share the roads in the park a bit of common sense on all parts would go a long way.
Also I know residents in the park have voiced their concerns to OPW and local TDs over the proposed new changes as it will create a bigger traffic issue in the surrounding castleknock , cabra and chapelizod areas. Also they are concerned that the groups of cyclists that currently use it as ther or own personal race / track will increase.

Wilbury Twist

It probably won't be a popular view but if you live in Dublin there is no excuse for driving a privately owned car to the Phoenix Park. The Phoenix Park Navan Road/Halfway House entrance is very well served by buses 38,39,70 are all very frequent and with Bus Connects will be even more so.

There is also the Dart at Castleknock and Navan Road Parkway, all a short walk to the Park from there. The only exception where cars should be permitted in the Phoenix Park in my view is for people who have existing disability permits.

People don't expect to be able to drive up and park at the entrance of Croke Park or the Aviva stadium, the Phoenix Park should be no different.

stabaak

Weepsie wrote: »

You're talking nonsense, because the threat of it become sort of playground like that is fantasy. Once the 5km restrictions are up, the number of cyclists using it is going to drop sharply.

The park has some old rules strictly prohibiting much of what it is that the owners of vehicles do with their cars. These are routinely ignored, and that is the problem.

In the park, the vast, vast majority of issues due to tight road space is the abundance of vehicular traffic which the park was not intended to carry. It should not be a bypass, it should not be a park and go facility as it was for so long, it should not be anything other than an amenity in of itself.

Oh I see . . Anyone who doesn’t go along with what u say or expresses an opinion that u don’t agree with or doesn’t suits ur agenda they are talking “nonsense” and concerns of people who actually live in the park are fantasy . . Good lad !

Larbre34

There certainly is at the moment, when all non essential travel on public transport remains discouraged and services themselves are at 25% capacity.

In fact, if it hadn't been for the restrictions on public transport and other services this past year and the consequent reduction in plentiful car parking within the Park, we wouldn't even be having this review of traffic and transport.

ligerdub

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The plans include parking for about 1300 cars if I recall correctly. There may be charges for this parking. So how does this match your view that they are trying to stop people from driving to the park?
Is this not enough spaces for you?

It isn't enough spaces no, and the idea that they are going to potentially charge for parking is a real shame in my opinion.

It would match my view that they are trying to stop people driving to the park yes, I mean that much seems pretty clear.

I'm not sure if your post was suggesting it would be otherwise, but you couldn't have proved my (and likely other peoples) view better.

beauf

Wilbury Twist wrote: »

It probably won't be a popular view but if you live in Dublin there is no excuse for driving a privately owned car to the Phoenix Park. The Phoenix Park Navan Road/Halfway House entrance is very well served by buses 38,39,70 are all very frequent and with Bus Connects will be even more so.

There is also the Dart at Castleknock and Navan Road Parkway, all a short walk to the Park from there. The only exception where cars should be permitted in the Phoenix Park in my view is for people who have existing disability permits.

People don't expect to be able to drive up and park at the entrance of Croke Park or the Aviva stadium, the Phoenix Park should be no different.

They finally built the Dart to the Park. They kept that quiet.

In fairness you don't need to drive anywhere in Dublin by that logic. It's all as equally well served by public transport and the " Dart" as the Park is.

liamog

Weepsie wrote: »

From Mon-Friday chesterfield avenue was abused as a park and ride facility, and it got worse when the Luas arrived. Some park and cycle, which again the park shouldn't ever be for.

We need to reduce car journeys. We already know that a massive amount of car journeys are less than a couple of km and absolutely needless. The unwillingness on so many to even try is just brutal.

In all reality, what harm was done by commuters park and biking in Phoenix Park Monday to Friday?