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Parking and traffic in Phoenix Park

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    #1352
    VonLuck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    beauf wrote: »
    You are assuming its positive for everyone, perhaps even the majority.

    But from past experience we know similar changes have always been, eventually, overturned. Which suggests that it doesn't suit everyone, perhaps even the majority. Because they are able to bring so much pressure to get it overturned.

    A politician will be very aware of the this.

    But an opportunity for change is good for everyone. I'm not saying that what's being proposed is necessarily the best option out there, but at least there's a forum for the public's opinion to be heard. Even those who like the way things currently are likely to have thoughts on a way to improve things from their own perspective.


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    #1353
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,949 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    IngazZagni wrote: »
    Bottom line is the people will decide this so the more that get involved the better.

    Lol.


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    #1354
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    VonLuck wrote: »
    But an opportunity for change is good for everyone. ....

    It might not be.

    You asked why point out the negatives. Well they haven't listened to the negatives in the past, and the majority of people on this thread won't listen to reason. "Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it." History in this case is within the last 12 months.

    So I guess the only thing left it to let it take its course and repeat the same mistakes over. We know that works.


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    #1355
    VonLuck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    beauf wrote: »
    It might not be.

    You asked why point out the negatives. Well they haven't listened to the negatives in the past, and the majority of people on this thread won't listen to reason. "Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it." History in this case is within the last 12 months.

    So I guess the only thing left it to let it take its course and repeat the same mistakes over. We know that works.

    Let's agree to disagree. I just think it's a positive opportunity for people's thoughts to be heard, even if they're opposed to what's being put on the table.


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    #1356
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    VonLuck wrote: »
    Let's agree to disagree. I just think it's a positive opportunity for people's thoughts to be heard, even if they're opposed to what's being put on the table.

    You're saying don't point out the negatives.

    Always goes well, when a project is only allowed to have yes men on it.


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    #1357
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users Posts: 1,589 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    beauf wrote: »
    It might not be.

    You asked why point out the negatives. Well they haven't listened to the negatives in the past, and the majority of people on this thread won't listen to reason. "Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it." History in this case is within the last 12 months.

    So I guess the only thing left it to let it take its course and repeat the same mistakes over. We know that works.

    I assume you are referring to the blanket side gate closures? This plan isn't like that at all. It relates to a wide range of issues.

    There are certain things I would like tweaked. Will I change anything? Not alone but if many people share a similar opinion then it's much more likely to change it. People can lol at me all they like but I believe if enough people get involved we can influence the final outcome.


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    #1358
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,965 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Then we need somewhere to park so we can use the beauitful park .Not everyone lives within walking distance and it is there for us all to enjoy

    I don't live anywhere near the park but I don't expect to be able to drive to it and have a parking space.
    This mentality is absolutey f*cked up. Should everyone have parking access to every amenity in Ireland? Should we make the car park at the Sugarloaf much bigger because that gets pretty full?
    Glendalough is a nightmare too - last time I went there we had to turn around and go somewhere else. Should we increase the size of that car park too?
    Seriously get a grip. We can't have unfettered car access to everywhere.
    I mean if I want to go to the Phoenix Park I'll make a day of it and take public transport, or walk from the city centre.
    Otherwise I'll go to parks closer to home.
    Campaign for more green spaces in your area instead of wanting more car parks in existing green spaces.
    Or just have it as a car free for all why not, it seems to be what a lot of people want.
    Such a depressing thread. Privileged enough to live in this age and to own a car and you just want to be able to park it wherever and whenever you want.


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    #1359
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    IngazZagni wrote: »
    I assume you are referring to the blanket side gate closures? ....

    Not that specifically.

    But its like people claiming the issue was commuters. When it obviously wasn't just commuters. Complete denial of any issues. Then complete bewilderment when chaos ensues.


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    #1360
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    I don't live anywhere near the park but I don't expect to be able to drive to it and have a parking space.
    This mentality is absolutey f*cked up. Should everyone have parking access to every amenity in Ireland? Should we make the car park at the Sugarloaf much bigger because that gets pretty full?
    Glendalough is a nightmare too - last time I went there we had to turn around and go somewhere else. Should we increase the size of that car park too?
    Seriously get a grip. We can't have unfettered car access to everywhere.
    I mean if I want to go to the Phoenix Park I'll make a day of it and take public transport, or walk from the city centre.
    Otherwise I'll go to parks closer to home.
    Campaign for more green spaces in your area instead of wanting more car parks in existing green spaces.
    Or just have it as a car free for all why not, it seems to be what a lot of people want.
    Such a depressing thread. Privileged enough to live in this age and to own a car and you just want to be able to park it wherever and whenever you want.

    Missing the point.

    How about. If some where is full. That people are not allowed to drive into and create grid lock. Which then takes 2 hours to turn around and leave it. Glendalough is so dumb.
    If you don't want people to drive to and through the Wicklow Mountains National Park. Stop them. Because if you let them in and there is no parking. They will park all over uncontrolled.

    If you do want to provide parking in the Park. Don't make people drive through the middle of the park to get it, or drive a route that twice as long to get to it. That just creates more traffic in the park. The other point is, if you come up with some stupid design. That suits a minority of people, you'll EVENTUALLY be out shouted by the majority of people. So to keep alienating the majority of people is dumb.

    So hence I say let them do whatever. It will fix itself.


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    #1361
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    Not that specifically.

    But its like people claiming the issue was commuters. When it obviously wasn't just commuters. Complete denial of any issues. Then complete bewilderment when chaos ensues.

    The car parks are basically empty now since last March. What's the difference? Less commuters


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    #1362
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,889 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    bubblypop wrote: »
    The car parks are basically empty now since last March. What's the difference? Less commuters

    The car parks where pretty full late last summer whenever I was using the park at the time we had a county level lockdown.


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    #1363
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    liamog wrote: »
    The car parks where pretty full late last summer whenever I was using the park at the time we had a county level lockdown.

    Yea, full a few weekends.


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    #1364
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    bubblypop wrote: »
    The car parks are basically empty now since last March. What's the difference? Less commuters

    You have to wonder why the OPW feel the need to keep posting about it...

    Twitter OPW 15th Jan 21....

    "....If you plan to visit the Park this weekend, please consider walking or cycling, if possible. Respect other visitors and practice social distancing. Use available car parks and do not damage the park by parking on grass, footpaths, cycle trails or under trees...."


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    #1365
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Yea, full a few weekends.

    Yeah....all those commuter's at the weekends....

    This was a Sunday in Nov...

    https://www.thejournal.ie/phoenix-park-side-gates-complaints-5290762-Dec2020/


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    #1366
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    You have to wonder why the OPW feel the need to keep posting about it...

    Twitter OPW 15th Jan 21....

    "....If you plan to visit the Park this weekend, please consider walking or cycling, if possible. Respect other visitors and practice social distancing. Use available car parks and do not damage the park by parking on grass, footpaths, cycle trails or under trees...."

    Because drivers appear to be lazy as!
    I drove in the chapelizod gate last Sunday, turned left, spotted 4 cars parked on the grass, between the next two car parks, which were empty, there were a further 5 cars parked on the grass verge.
    Now, there was nothing stopping those drivers from driving further and parking in a car park, but they just wanted to stop right there.


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    #1367
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    My main issue is not that the gates are closed, reduced parking, or no through traffic. But if you are going to do it, have a plan and tell people in advance, put it on all the media, and signs and diversions to keep people away. Instead of causing mayhem everytime.

    If traffic is bad, close gates and only let people exit. It's not rocket science.


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    #1368
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Because drivers appear to be lazy as!
    I drove in the chapelizod gate last Sunday, turned left, spotted 4 cars parked on the grass, between the next two car parks, which were empty, there were a further 5 cars parked on the grass verge.
    Now, there was nothing stopping those drivers from driving further and parking in a car park, but they just wanted to stop right there.

    Sunday commuter's eh. It's up to the OPW to enforce it.

    Wait till they stop through traffic from those gates. People will park everywhere. Just inside the gate.


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    #1369
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    Sunday commuter's eh. It's up to the OPW to enforce it.

    Wait till they stop through traffic from those gates. People will park everywhere. Just inside the gate.

    Well that's the issue isn't it? There's plenty of car parks, drivers just don't bother driving to them.
    Time to put big kerbs or small bollards along the grass verges. Force cars into car parks.


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    #1370
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Well that's the issue isn't it? There's plenty of car parks, drivers just don't bother driving to them.
    Time to put big kerbs or small bollards along the grass verges. Force cars into car parks.

    I thought you said the problem was commuters.

    Now its no one uses the car parks. So your plan now is to put concrete all over the park. Every grass edge.

    Nice.


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    #1371
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    I thought you said the problem was commuters.

    Now its no one uses the car parks. So your plan now is to put concrete all over the park. Every grass edge.

    Nice.

    What are you talking about?
    You do know what a kerb is right?
    I did say there was a problem with commuters parking in the park, you then brought up the OPW tweeting about people parking in grass, so I then answered that post.
    I'm sorry if you're having trouble keeping up with your own conversation!


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    #1372
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    bubblypop wrote: »
    The car parks are basically empty now since last March. What's the difference? Less commuters

    Yet all your examples of problems are at the weekend. A kerb won't stop most cars, and certainly not a SUV. So you'd need bollards everywhere.

    You should so bring this up in the public meeting.


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    #1373
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    Yet all your examples of problems are at the weekend. A kerb won't stop most cars, and certainly not a SUV. So you'd need bollards everywhere.

    You should so bring this up in the public meeting.

    Or just start ticketing people like in Richmond Park in London. Where no-one ever parks on the grass verges. Even when the car parks are full. Because they get clamped and hammered with a substantial ticket by the parks police


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    #1374
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beauf wrote: »
    Yet all your examples of problems are at the weekend. A kerb won't stop most cars, and certainly not a SUV. So you'd need bollards everywhere.

    You should so bring this up in the public meeting.

    No.
    Commuters are during the week. Non existent at the moment, so no issues with parking during the week.
    Some issues with cars parking in grass verges at weekends, that's because drivers are lazy. There is plenty of room inside in car parks.
    And I will give my opinion at public consultations :)


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    #1375
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Or just start ticketing people like in Richmond Park in London. Where no-one ever parks on the grass verges. Even when the car parks are full. Because they get clamped and hammered with a substantial ticket by the parks police

    I already made that point about lack of enforcement by trhe OPW. They did before went they removed the parking up to Parkgate Street gate. Used to clamp all the commuters parking there. Which was great.

    Unfortunately, not long after this they removed the surface off the cycle lane and never replaced it. So the road space gained for cycling, was completely destroyed.


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    #1376
    Dr_Colossus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,139 ✭✭✭Dr_Colossus


    beauf wrote: »
    Unfortunately, not long after this they removed the surface off the cycle lane and never replaced it. So the road space gained for cycling, was completely destroyed.

    Christ, how long ago was that, must have been 10+ years ago? Was really hopeful they were going to resurface it at the time of the papal visit a few years ago when they resurfaced part of the road around the entrance itself.

    It's a great space but totally unusable given the surface so have never used it and just cycle on the road. It just emphasises the OPWs focus on cycling when they can't have a decent cycle track in and out of the main gate with a bicycle hire present and all.


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    #1377
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,949 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    IIRC, the Park Byelaws did not, and still do not, make provision for clamping, so what they did then close to Parkgate St was illegal and they can't clamp cars ever. Unless the Parks Byelaws were to be changed, but clamping is a very dirty word when it comes to trustees.


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    #1378
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    IIRC, the Park Byelaws did not, and still do not, make provision for clamping, so what they did then close to Parkgate St was illegal and they can't clamp cars ever. Unless the Parks Byelaws were to be changed, but clamping is a very dirty word when it comes to trustees.

    I dunno what they did I assume clamping. But they used to police it. No one parks there now. Used to be solid cars all the way.


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    #1379
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,949 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    beauf wrote: »
    I dunno what they did I assume clamping. But they used to police it. No one parks there now. Used to be solid cars all the way.

    Yeah, all either Garda cars or private cars belonging to Guards attending the CCJ.


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    #1380
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    It may have predated that building, I can't remember. I though the resurfacing was for the Tour De France.


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    #1381
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,949 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I'm just popping this here because its the closest relevant thread.

    Fingal CoCo have closed St Catherine's Park in Lucan/Leixlip to all cars until further notice, at the request of Gardaí apparently. Pedestrian and cycle access only for the time being.

    I think its a bit OTT myself, I was there on Sunday myself for an hour and it was getting busy as I left, but people were being patient and considerate.


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