The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Enquiring wrote: »

This is really dishonest stuff. You're trying to claim that money for primary schools, secondary schools, universities and all development officers were for every county in Leinster except Dublin. You have been asked to provide proof for this but have provided zero evidence.

I’m not trying to claim anything, I got the 200k from your figures

You’re not saying your figures don’t give the full picture are you? Maybe you’d like to give us a correct breakdown? Maybe you could do the same for all the years you’ve given?

Enquiring wrote: »

We've already gone over this a number of times. The Leinster council provides money for coaches for all of Leinster. They also provide money for schools and colleges, cúl camps, development projects etc. This is for every county in Leinster.

The money for coaching provided Leinster counties with enough for between 2 to 6 coaches. This has gone up for some counties in the past few years. Dublin then get the money from elsewhere to pay for the rest of theirs.

It's the same in all provinces. The provincial council's provide money for coaches. All counties have had under 6 coaches to develop hurling and football within the county they're appointed to. All counties except 1.

When you say from else where do you mean the half that the dublin clubs pay by themselves or do you mean from their county allocation. What does the dublin allocation cover under deployment of personell? What does the games development allocation cover under the same heading? Should dublin clubs be penalised or applauded for putting their hands in their own pockets to improve the coaching? If they pay for it themselves should it be counted as part of their funding? Do clubs outside dublin pay for their coaches?, if not why not?

Enquiring wrote: »

You have loads of questions but you never have any answers.

To pay for the rest of the coaches, Dublin receive money from the government and the GAA. They have received about 25 million since 2002 to do this. On top of that, clubs pay half the wages of coaches so that takes it to 50 million since 2002 or thereabouts.

Now here is the important part. This was a scheme for Dublin GAA only! No other county had the option to part fund coaches, it was only available for Dublin clubs.

No one has said Dublin clubs should be punished, they're not going to be punished. In fact, as part of their new county, players at underage and senior would now have a far greater chance of playing inter county hurling and football. Splitting Dublin advantages clubs in Dublin!!

This has to happen also because not only does Dublin have the largest population by far, it has the wealth. 4 counties would not only easily survive but they'd thrive.

The alternative is to let the current situation continue where you have a county spending 3.8 million a year on games development, 2 million on salaries and 1.5 million on team preparations. It's just not feasible to let that continue.

You say the dublin clubs aren’t being punished but I think you’ll find most would disagree. Thankfully the wishes of yourself don’t hold a lot of weight. You see there’s a certain honour playing for a team like dublin, an appeal that’s driven a group of young lads currently to be the greatest team of all time. Playing for dunnlaoghairevrathdown doesn’t have that appeal I’m afraid. By your logic the only fair solution is to split every county into blocks of about 30k to match leitrims population. After all that would be rewarding all the clubs in every county since more of their players could play inter county right? It would also fix over 100 years of imbalance in the GAA, which you seem to care about greatly so you must be in favour

And where will you get space etc for these dublin teams given the challenges in that respect dublin already faces. I don’t know if you’ve noticed but we don’t have the space of Mayo or Kerry. And the space we have costs a hell of a lot more

Did anyone else look to part fund additional coaches. Did any clubs outside dublin have to sit with the money burning a hole in their pocket. My recollection is too many were laughing at dublin for their “unleash the blue wave’ plan back then.You’ve already mentioned how some dublin clubs even went and hired their own coaches. Why can’t clubs elsewhere do that, possibly on a pooled basis.

How about instead if finance is such an issue the other counties try to maximise their wealth properly first? For example with sponsorship like cork just managed? It seems far better than just sitting with a cap out expecting your cut

tritium wrote: »

You say the dublin clubs aren’t being punished but I think you’ll find most would disagree. Thankfully the wishes of yourself don’t hold a lot of weight. You see there’s a certain honour playing for a team like dublin, an appeal that’s driven a group of young lads currently to be the greatest team of all time. Playing for dunnlaoghairevrathdown doesn’t have that appeal I’m afraid. By your logic the only fair solution is to split every county into blocks of about 30k to match leitrims population. After all that would be rewarding all the clubs in every county since more of their players could play inter county right? It would also fix over 100 years of imbalance in the GAA, which you seem to care about greatly so you must be in favour

And where will you get space etc for these dublin teams given the challenges in that respect dublin already faces. I don’t know if you’ve noticed but we don’t have the space of Mayo or Kerry. And the space we have costs a hell of a lot more

Did anyone else look to part fund additional coaches. Did any clubs outside dublin have to sit with the money burning a hole in their pocket. My recollection is too many were laughing at dublin for their “unleash the blue wave’ plan back then.You’ve already mentioned how some dublin clubs even went and hired their own coaches. Why can’t clubs elsewhere do that, possibly on a pooled basis.

How about instead if finance is such an issue the other counties try to maximise their wealth properly first? For example with sponsorship like cork just managed? It seems far better than just sitting with a cap out expecting your cut

Oh dear. When all else fails, the old favourites that have been busted multiple times over are dragged out.

This isn't just a one off team. Dublin have won about 100 titles across all disciplines post funding, were they all just one off greatest teams of all time? Population isn't the main issue, it's the millions upon millions of euros that you've been told about. Dublin have purchased land recently, you may have heard of spawell and hollystown golf club? They have other land also and already have a number of pitches to cater for the 4 counties. Yes, other counties looked for funding and were denied.

I could go on but I think I'll just make one post and put it in my signature to direct people to who use the same old busted myths.

Just on your last point though, it's absolutely hilarious. Cap out expecting your cut? John Bailey went running to Bertie Ahern to beg for money, Dublin have been handed millions upon millions of euros to implement a plan that was drawn up for them as they were too incompetent to do anything themselves. Through the plan, the finance and the hiring of highly paid officers to implement the plan, Dublin increased their success across the board. Consequently, their sponsorship grew off the back of the success. Dublin have been handed so much that they don't even bother with going to the effort of fundraising like every other county has to do because it's spoon fed to them.

Also, it's noted that once again you have no response to the huge finance in Dublin GAA. Throwing out the old, failed excuses tells me that you know it's wrong. You know Dublin are operating at a professional level in an amateur sport. You can't or won't admit to it, that's your decision but those of us who care about the health of Gaelic games can't let it continue.

Enquiring wrote: »

Oh dear. When all else fails, the old favourites that have been busted multiple times over are dragged out.

This isn't just a one off team. Dublin have won about 100 titles across all disciplines post funding, were they all just one off greatest teams of all time? Population isn't the main issue, it's the millions upon millions of euros that you've been told about. Dublin have purchased land recently, you may have heard of spawell and hollystown golf club? They have other land also and already have a number of pitches to cater for the 4 counties. Yes, other counties looked for funding and were denied.

I could go on but I think I'll just make one post and put it in my signature to direct people to who use the same old busted myths.

Just on your last point though, it's absolutely hilarious. Cap out expecting your cut? John Bailey went running to Bertie Ahern to beg for money, Dublin have been handed millions upon millions of euros to implement a plan that was drawn up for them as they were too incompetent to do anything themselves. Through the plan, the finance and the hiring of highly paid officers to implement the plan, Dublin increased their success across the board. Consequently, their sponsorship grew off the back of the success. Dublin have been handed so much that they don't even bother with going to the effort of fundraising like every other county has to do because it's spoon fed to them.

Also, it's noted that once again you have no response to the huge finance in Dublin GAA. Throwing out the old, failed excuses tells me that you know it's wrong. You know Dublin are operating at a professional level in an amateur sport. You can't or won't admit to it, that's your decision but those of us who care about the health of Gaelic games can't let it continue.

Seriously if you have all this great information and proof go up and present it to your county board and demand answers , no point coming on here and presenting it . Seriously off you trot . Your trying to preach to lads who are involved with Dublin clubs and can see that they are all struggling to survive no matter what outsiders think . Go on off you go and come back and let us all know how they react to your great findings. Oh one other thing just let us all know the reason they gave you for their own incompetence.

tikkahunter wrote: »

Seriously if you have all this great information and proof go up and present it to your county board and demand answers , no point coming on here and presenting it . Seriously off you trot . Your trying to preach to lads who are involved with Dublin clubs and can see that they are all struggling to survive no matter what outsiders think . Go on off you go and come back and let us all know how they react to your great findings. Oh one other thing just let us all know the reason they gave you for their own incompetence.

Do you have any arguments against the evidence backed posts I've made?

It's up to all of us to make representations to our clubs and county boards etc. I believe protests will be needed to highlight this further. The continuation of the status quo where 1 county is operating with massive levels of finance against counties living off scraps can't continue.

tritium wrote: »

Why would anyone bother discussing this with you

You ignore anything that doesn’t fit your narrative

Your evidence has been soundly discredited and you’re still spouting on as if it was gospel. It’s like watching some sort of religious zealotry in action.

Thankfully you represent a tiny minority of the gaa, most are gracious enough to understand that this dublin team is the result of a combination of talent and hard work

Some serious projection going on in your posts.

What have I ignored? What has been discredited?

The only things I can see that have been discredited have been the myths created by the defenders of the financial disparity.

The myth that the money was just for primary school kids - busted.
The myth that the funding imbalance only occurred between 2007-2017 - busted.
The myth that this is only a one off team - busted.
The myth that it's all down to volunteers - busted.
The myth that it was just down to Dublin getting their house in order - busted.

Again, I could go on but the comments of ignore him and telling me to trot off and your comment above tells me that you all know the myths have been busted. You all know that the funding disparity is a major issue and it's wrong. It won't stop you peddling the same myths, lies and deflection but that's not the point.

The point is for others who are unaware of just how bad the situation is to learn the facts and maybe do something about it. Contact your clubs and county boards. This process is ongoing and the more publicity it gets the better. Spread the word. Let's end the farce of Dublin operating on a professional basis in an amateur sport.

The clear issue is that Dublin has a quarter of the countries population and growing. Every other advantage stems from that. Sooner or later, the GAA are going to be forced to pull the trigger on a split in 4 or face into a reality where nobody bothers going to games or watching on TV anymore. It's boring.

SheepsClothing wrote: »

The clear issue is that Dublin has a quarter of the countries population and growing. Every other advantage stems from that. Sooner or later, the GAA are going to be forced to pull the trigger on a split in 4 or face into a reality where nobody bothers going to games or watching on TV anymore. It's boring.

This is what is going to happen.

Competitions based on county boundaries are doomed.
In fact they have always been unfair and most small counties bar a few have always struggled.

Kilkenny is truly an outlier, but then again they are in hurling with maybe 6 to 8 other teams and they didn't even bother fielding a football team for years.

The only other small counties in terms of size and/or population that have an odd moment in the sunshine in football have been Louth, Armagh, Cavan and Offaly.
Cavan did brilliant for years in Ulster, but they had no one to compete against.
It is now decades since Louth or Offaly have done anything.

But because you normally had a few counties vying for success at one time with all of them having a good chance of winning it papered over the cracks.
Now it is a nailed on definite who is going to win Leinster at a stroll and it is nearly as much a certainty who will win Sam.

Dubs keep on about the great Kerry team and nobody complaining about them, but that team were beaten or run close by Heffo's Dubs on many occasions.
Offaly and Cork scuppered them and caused a break in their run.

Mayo had a good chance a few years ago to stop Dublin, but between one thing and another didn't manage it.
Kerry were only close last year because they had extra man.
Mayo were not that close this year and once 50 minutes came it was game over.

Dublin is pulling away not getting closer as opposed to what happened to Dwyer's Kerry team.

Competition is necessary to keep interest.
And one or two dominant teams cause disinterest except from the supporters or fans of those teams.
And one dominant team just scuppers the whole thing.

jmayo wrote: »

This is what is going to happen.

Competitions based on county boundaries are doomed.
In fact they have always been unfair and most small counties bar a few have always struggled.

Kilkenny is truly an outlier, but then again they are in hurling with maybe 6 to 8 other teams and they didn't even bother fielding a football team for years.

The only other small counties in terms of size and/or population that have an odd moment in the sunshine in football have been Louth, Armagh, Cavan and Offaly.
Cavan did brilliant for years in Ulster, but they had no one to compete against.
It is now decades since Louth or Offaly have done anything.

But because you normally had a few counties vying for success at one time with all of them having a good chance of winning it papered over the cracks.
Now it is a nailed on definite who is going to win Leinster at a stroll and it is nearly as much a certainty who will win Sam.

Dubs keep on about the great Kerry team and nobody complaining about them, but that team were beaten or run close by Heffo's Dubs on many occasions.
Offaly and Cork scuppered them and caused a break in their run.

Mayo had a good chance a few years ago to stop Dublin, but between one thing and another didn't manage it.
Kerry were only close last year because they had extra man.
Mayo were not that close this year and once 50 minutes came it was game over.

Dublin is pulling away not getting closer as opposed to what happened to Dwyer's Kerry team.

Competition is necessary to keep interest.
And one or two dominant teams cause disinterest except from the supporters or fans of those teams.
And one dominant team just scuppers the whole thing.

Mayo had 2 , 1 point defeats to Dublin ,and a couple of draws in recent years
This year Mayo had how many new players starting ?
Kerry had a 2 point and a 3 point defeat to Dublin in recent years , Drew with Dublin last year " should have won "
Donegal master class v Dublin in 2014
Serious competition there

dunnerc wrote: »

Mayo had 2 , 1 point defeats to Dublin ,and a couple of draws in recent years
This year Mayo had how many new players starting ?
Kerry had a 2 point and a 3 point defeat to Dublin in recent years , Drew with Dublin last year " should have won "
Donegal master class v Dublin in 2014
Serious competition there

For instance, imagine if Kerry footballers were given 25 million since 2002, their own special development plan costing 3.8 million a year, millions on wages and team preparation costs, nearly every single championship game played at home since 2006 and so on. They'd be destroying every single team.

And then they'd have to be split because one county receiving that level of funding above everyone else shouldn't be allowed to happen.

jmayo wrote: »

This is what is going to happen.

Competitions based on county boundaries are doomed.
In fact they have always been unfair and most small counties bar a few have always struggled.

There's a lot of tradition in the all Ireland, and in the provincial championships. It would be a shame to walk away from that. Its not that long since Dublin were perrenial chokers. This whole thing is overblown.

dobman88 wrote: »

Louth were robbed in a leinster final in 2010. Its not that long ago and definitely not decades.

One Leinster final in how many years ?
I am talking about when Louth were a real force back in the 50s.
And yes we know they were robbed by Meath and very very poor reffing.
Funny how many times Meath have won things due to very poor reffing :rolleyes:

dunnerc wrote: »

Mayo had 2 , 1 point defeats to Dublin ,and a couple of draws in recent years
This year Mayo had how many new players starting ?
Kerry had a 2 point and a 3 point defeat to Dublin in recent years , Drew with Dublin last year " should have won "
Donegal master class v Dublin in 2014
Serious competition there

Lads did you read what I said.
Mayo were very close, but that was 2016, 2017.
They were not really close this year.
And yes they had new players, but some of the older lads can't be replaced that easily.
The likes of Donie, Seamie, Zippy, Boyler, Parsons in their prime a few years ago have not been replaced.
Leeroy some would say is not near his best anymore, granted his position this year didn't help.
Yes there have been a few greats finds this year, but there isn't almost a like for like or better replacement like with the Dublin team.

Mayo ran out of steam and the subs did not add to Mayo unlike the Dublin subs who really made the difference.

Kerry were only close because Dublin were down to 14 so don't talk about how they nearly beat Dublin.
They were hockeyed in the replay.

BTW someone earlier highlighted how the winning margins are getting bigger not narrower, but carry on talking up how easy Dublin can be to beat.
There were only nearly beaten a few years ago, not now.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

And thats why they are going to give up their lucrative sponsorhip and state of the art training facility, and compete on similar terms to Leitrim and Longford.

Right?

How is any of that giving them an advantage?