The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

Strumms

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

That is just a point of scale though. Everything is bigger. However, the bigger they get, the more profitable they become, so obviously that means that the increased scale is a hugely positive thing for the club, rather than the hardship you seem to want people to believe.

You seem to think that other clubs arent well run. Many country clubs are running at close to optimal levels and produce, per capita, multiples of intercounty players that the superclubs do.

In truth it is the parameters that are different rathet than the efforts. Some dublin clubs have the population of many counties. Just like dublin itself is popluated and funded as a province. That is the difference, rather than any great work by voluteers in dublin that nobody else can manage. You would need some brass neck to try to push that argument, in all honesty.

Where did I say other clubs weren’t well run ?

I didn’t in fact... which goes to further dismount your argument if it can be called that.

No Dublin club has a population of many counties or a county or close to it, put down the gin.

Dublin is funded as a county, a large one yes, but a county. Which is what it is.

Funding isn’t the be all... like I said, the grassroots work, the volunteerism certainly is the chief enabler of the unmatchable success and achievements... coupled with talent, drive, determination and a fierce will to succeed despite any obstacles. Great to witness.

JeffKenna

Apart from Dublin, there are 15 players playing intercounty that have won an all Ireland. Crazy stat.

dobman88

JeffKenna wrote: »

Apart from Dublin, there are 15 players playing intercounty that have won an all Ireland. Crazy stat.

Do you have a list? 3 Kerry lads finished up this week who won 1 in 2014. Think Kerrigan from Cork had 1 also and afaik he finished up recently too.

Who are the 15 that have 1?

Strumms

JeffKenna wrote: »

Apart from Dublin, there are 15 players playing intercounty that have won an all Ireland. Crazy stat.

Football perhaps, but in GAA as a whole, far more non Dublin players with inter county medals playing ... never mind 15 but by rough calculations 150-180 across football and hurling... you need include both football and hurling.... ‘The Dominance of Dublin GAA’ after all

JeffKenna

dobman88 wrote: »

Do you have a list? 3 Kerry lads finished up this week who won 1 in 2014. Think Kerrigan from Cork had 1 also and afaik he finished up recently too.

Who are the 15 that have 1?

David Moran (Kerry 2014)
Paul Murphy (Kerry 2014)
Peter Crowley (Kerry 2014)
Stephen O'Brien (Kerry 2014)
Jack Sherwood (Kerry 2014)
Paul Geaney (Kerry 2014)
James O'Donoghue (Kerry 2014)
Pa Kilkenny (Kerry 2014)
Michael Murphy (Donegal 2012)
Neil McGee (Donegal 2012)
Paddy McGrath (Donegal 2012)
Paddy McBrearty (Donegal 2012)
Eoin Cadogan (Cork 2010)
Ciarán Sheehan (Cork 2010)
Tommy Walsh (Kerry 2009)


I must admit, I never really heard of Pa Kilkenny before?

MayoAreMagic

Strumms wrote: »

Where did I say other clubs weren’t well run ?

I didn’t in fact... which goes to further dismount your argument if it can be called that.

No Dublin club has a population of many counties or a county or close to it, put down the gin.

Dublin is funded as a county, a large one yes, but a county. Which is what it is.

Funding isn’t the be all... like I said, the grassroots work, the volunteerism certainly is the chief enabler of the unmatchable success and achievements... coupled with talent, drive, determination and a fierce will to succeed despite any obstacles. Great to witness.

Well saying that dubs shouldnt apologise for simply running their clubs well, the inference is that, others arent run well and that this is simply their own problem. Otherwise why say it? If you believe that, just totally out of touch.
Yes some dublin clubs have the same pick as some counties, it has been widely recognised in the media.

Again, dublin is funded as a province. The late andy kettle argued that it was more like a province and should be funded as such, when the issue of funding was being discussed.

Again, volunteers are in every county. Most would crawl over hot coals to get the opportunities those in dublin get.
Finally, if funding isnt the be all, pay it all back and be done with it...

Strumms

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well saying that dubs shouldnt apologise for simply running their clubs well, the inference is that, others arent run well and that this is simply their own problem. Otherwise why say it? If you believe that, it echoes the british royals analogy I mentioned in my previous post - just totally out of touch.
Yes some dublin clubs have the same pick as some counties, it has been widely recognised in the media - british royals strike again.

Again, dublin is funded as a province. The late andy kettle argued that it was more like a province and should be funded as such, when the issue of funding was being discussed.

Again, volunteers are in every county. Most would crawl over hot coals to get the opportunities those in dublin get.
Finally, if funding isnt the be all, pay it all back and be done with it...

It’s not an inference at all that others aren’t run well...that’s simply Disney time thinking on your behalf.. if I say “god, Xx tennis club are run well and are being successful”...by your ‘logic’ I’m saying Zz tennis club are not run well...

See your arguments are just see through disingenuous. This is another example. Accusing posters of saying something they didn’t...

Dublin can pay the funding back, sure, but let’s level that playing field... ‘ everybody ‘ gives funding back.... hmmm thought not...

Funding is required to facilitate the participation and enjoyment for everybody... long may it continue...

MayoAreMagic

Strumms wrote: »

It’s not an inference at all that others aren’t run well...that’s simply Disney time thinking on your behalf.. if I say “god, Xx tennis club are run well and are being successful”...by your ‘logic’ I’m saying Zz tennis club are not run well...

See your arguments are just see through disingenuous. This is another example. Accusing posters of saying something they didn’t...

Dublin can pay the funding back, sure, but let’s level that playing field... ‘ everybody ‘ gives funding back.... hmmm thought not...

Funding is required to facilitate the participation and enjoyment for everybody... long may it continue...

Well nobody else is arguing that funding isnt the be all and end all. The rest freely admit it is a huge factor and they need it. You and your countymen are the ones arguing that it isnt that important. So by all means, hand it back. Strange how it was important enough for dublin to go looking for a special case for a large cash injection a few years back. Amazing how peoples views seem to change depending on what suits them.

Re your point that dublin clubs, and dublin itself are better because they are well run, and they should not be punished. What do you mean by punished then? Can you explain in full exactly what you are referencing there? Because it seems like you are saying they shouldnt be punished because others cant match them. By all means take the opportunity to clear that up

kona

I cant understand other counties problems with funding and money, 10 years ago it was ok for Kerry and tyrone to fundraise and bring into their setups more professional roles like analysis roles etc.

Once dublin decided to do this and obviously done it much better due to their obvious advantages as the biggest county in Ireland its a problem? You reap what you sow as far as im concerned. Lets not forget what Tyrone and Kerry did to dublin in the late 00s. They were delighted with their setups, didnt give a **** about dublin when they were 15 points up after 20mins then.

Strumms

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well nobody else is arguing that funding isnt the be all and end all. The rest freely admit it is a huge factor and they need it. You and your countymen are the ones arguing that it isnt that important. So by all means, hand it back. Strange how it was important enough for dublin to go looking for a special case for a large cash injection a few years back. Amazing how peoples views seem to change depending on what suits them.

Re your point that dublin clubs, and dublin itself are better because they are well run, and they should not be punished. What do you mean by punished then? Can you explain in full exactly what you are referencing there? Because it seems like you are saying they shouldnt be punished because others cant match them. By all means take the opportunity to clear that up

It’s not practical to hand back funding. Simply funding is an investment in the sport across all age groups, genders and levels... it’s not the be all, but hand it back ? Hmmmmmm no !

I don’t need to ‘clear that up’... if you have a lack of ability or want to understand what’s in front of you... I’m here to engage, not educate.

Strumms

kona wrote: »

I cant understand other counties problems with funding and money, 10 years ago it was ok for Kerry and tyrone to fundraise and bring into their setups more professional roles like analysis roles etc.

Once dublin decided to do this and obviously done it much better due to their obvious advantages as the biggest county in Ireland its a problem? You reap what you sow as far as im concerned. Lets not forget what Tyrone and Kerry did to dublin in the late 00s. They were delighted with their setups, didnt give a **** about dublin when they were 15 points up after 20mins then.

People wouldn’t care if Dublin were given 45 million a year... if they were getting no further then a semi or quarter nobody cares.... all people or some unsporting people want is anyone to end to Dublin’s dominance on the pitch... to do that they want to nobble them off it firstly.... they’ve been going on about...

-splitting ( didn’t work )

-home advantage ( untrue )

Now...

-disproportionate funding ( untrue )

Running out of ideas...

Next...

- ban Dublin players from eating breakfast on the morning of a game.

- no buses, only car pooling to get to croker.

- player x got a discount on an exercise bike for home from xx shop ( call the Gardai )

Desperate strokes for wound up folks... I can see the psychology industry getting a lot more work...nice one lads.

kona

Strumms wrote: »

People wouldn’t care if Dublin were given 45 million a year... if they were getting no further then a semi or quarter nobody cares.... all people or some unsporting people want is anyone to end to Dublin’s dominance on the pitch... to do that they want to nobble them off it firstly.... they’ve been going on about...

-splitting ( didn’t work )

-home advantage ( untrue )

Now...

-disproportionate funding ( untrue )

Running out of ideas...

Next...

- ban Dublin players from eating breakfast on the morning of a game.

- no buses, only car pooling to get to croker.

- player x got a discount on an exercise bike for home from xx shop ( call the Gardai )

Desperate strokes for wound up folks... I can see the psychology industry getting a lot more work...nice one lads.

I would have no problems with dublin giving all that stuff up if it was across the board. We all know that wouldnt be the case.

ooter

Being discussed on rte radio one now with dublin gaa's director of coaching Ger O:Connor, Sunday sport.

dobman88

JeffKenna wrote: »

David Moran (Kerry 2014)
Paul Murphy (Kerry 2014)
Peter Crowley (Kerry 2014)
Stephen O'Brien (Kerry 2014)
Jack Sherwood (Kerry 2014)
Paul Geaney (Kerry 2014)
James O'Donoghue (Kerry 2014)
Pa Kilkenny (Kerry 2014)
Michael Murphy (Donegal 2012)
Neil McGee (Donegal 2012)
Paddy McGrath (Donegal 2012)
Paddy McBrearty (Donegal 2012)
Eoin Cadogan (Cork 2010)
Ciarán Sheehan (Cork 2010)
Tommy Walsh (Kerry 2009)


I must admit, I never really heard of Pa Kilkenny before?

Hes not in with Kerry anymore afaik. Are Sheehan and Cadogan still going?

Enquiring

This time, we have the Games Development funding for 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014!






Again, you can clearly see the disparity in funding and never forget that you have to double Dublin's figure on these tables as that's what they were really spending on coaches throughout these years.

zetecescort

dobman88 wrote: »

Hes not in with Kerry anymore afaik. Are Sheehan and Cadogan still going?

Sheehan still with the footballers, Cadogan with the hurlers

ooter

Straight from the horse's mouth earlier, lack of skill is not an issue with hurling in dublin, so why no senior all ireland?

tikkahunter

Enquiring wrote: »

Operation Facts is back!! And back with a bang! This time, we have the Games Development funding for 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014! A bumper episode here.






Again, you can clearly see the disparity in funding and never forget that you have to double Dublin's figure on these tables as that's what they were really spending on coaches throughout these years.

Would you not present these figures to your county board?

ArielAtom

tikkahunter wrote: »

Would you not present these figures to your county board?

No one here from a Dublin perspective has ever disputed the figure between 07 and 17 as these were the Dublin project years. They have been seen by the world and his wife, if a county board I Ireland has not seen them, they are not doing their job, which to be fair is probably the truth bar Mayo and Kerry in football.

Enquiring

ArielAtom wrote: »

No
one here has ever disputed the figure between 07 and 17 as these were the Dublin project years. They have been seen by the world and his wife, if a county board I Ireland has not seen them, they are not doing their job.

Just so we're clear here. Posters such as the above have tried to claim that the funding has stopped since 2017 and it only began in 2007. Proof will be provided to show that this is false. Also, many are not aware of the figures or willfully ignore them. The more people know about just how much Dublin were given above every other county, the better. Let's end the farce.

thesultan

ooter wrote: »

Straight from the horse's mouth earlier, lack of skill is not an issue with hurling in dublin, so why no senior all ireland?

It is lack of skill. All solo and hand pass

ArielAtom

thesultan wrote: »

It is lack of skill. All solo and hand pass

The only teams that are out in front skill wise would be KK, Tipp and Limerick who mix physicality with skill, the chasing pack Waterford, Wexford recall are bang average in comparison and Dublin sit in there. So their skill levels are like the majority, behind the top three.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

This time, we have the Games Development funding for 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014!





Again, you can clearly see the disparity in funding and never forget that you have to double Dublin's figure on these tables as that's what they were really spending on coaches throughout these years.

I’m confused

Your figures total a smidgeon over €2.8 million

When I look at the gaas 2014 games development report for the Irish sports council there’s about €9.5 million total development spend. Within that I can see roughly the right Figure for dublin broken out under dublin games development (1.43m- I’m assuming this corresponds to your dublin figures though obviously certainty Is difficult given you’ve just dumped a list of numbers down. A full breakdown of games development numbers from your source material would be useful here). That goes into two headings - deployment of personnel and projects

Excluding this there’s other deployment of personnel of nearly 3 million for example, county projects including talent academies of 1.2 million under the games development heading.

Care to explain where the rest of that money is in your figures, and to where its allocated

kona

I would say the reason the dublin hurlers have not won a all ireland isnt down to skill, they are as talented a bunch as anybody bar maybe the top 3.
They havnt won a all ireland and will not until they are mentally prepared for it. I dont think they have the right mentality to beat say a limerick if it was do or die last 10 minutes of a final.
They also have the senior footballers, alot of the talent are dual players eg. Connolly, kilkenny, con. As ferociously competitive as the senior panel is, thats currently the best way your going to win a all ireland as a dub.

tritium

kona wrote: »

I would say the reason the dublin hurlers have not won a all ireland isnt down to skill, they are as talented a bunch as anybody bar maybe the top 3.
They havnt won a all ireland and will not until they are mentally prepared for it. I dont think they have the right mentality to beat say a limerick if it was do or die last 10 minutes of a final.
They also have the senior footballers, alot of the talent are dual players eg. Connolly, kilkenny, con. As ferociously competitive as the senior panel is, thats currently the best way your going to win a all ireland as a dub.

Oddly enough I remember that same mental weakness in the dublin team of the ninties. Very talented but if you squeezed them they went soft. I remember when they finally won the thing it felt like the last chance saloon in many ways. Just my take on them though maybe others remember differently

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

I’m confused

Your figures total a smidgeon over €2.8 million

When I look at the gaas 2014 games development report for the Irish sports council there’s about €9.5 million total development spend. Within that I can see roughly the right Figure for dublin broken out under dublin games development (1.43m- I’m assuming this corresponds to your dublin figures though obviously certainty Is difficult given you’ve just dumped a list of numbers down. A full breakdown of games development numbers from your source material would be useful here). That goes into two headings - deployment of personnel and projects

Excluding this there’s other deployment of personnel of nearly 3 million for example, county projects including talent academies of 1.2 million under the games development heading.

Care to explain where the rest of that money is in your figures, and to where its allocated

The numbers are from the GAA annual accounts. They are freely available. What are you confused about? I've quoted what each county received for games development in 2014, 2013, 2012 and 2011 in the post you quoted. Do you dispute the GAA's figures or what's the issue?

Dyr

kona wrote: »

I would say the reason the dublin hurlers have not won a all ireland isnt down to skill, they are as talented a bunch as anybody bar maybe the top 3.
They havnt won a all ireland and will not until they are mentally prepared for it. I dont think they have the right mentality to beat say a limerick if it was do or die last 10 minutes of a final.
They also have the senior footballers, alot of the talent are dual players eg. Connolly, kilkenny, con. As ferociously competitive as the senior panel is, thats currently the best way your going to win a all ireland as a dub.

While its true that the most talented athletes in Dublin choose football over hurlingThe remainder arent that talented at all, very few Dublin hurlers would get a place in the other top leavel hurling teams. You could argue that they are skilled and just cant bring it to bear at the highest level but it makes very little difference to the end result, they can't cut it

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

The numbers are from the GAA annual accounts. They are freely available. What are you confused about? I've quoted what each county received for games development in 2014, 2013, 2012 and 2011 in the post you quoted. Do you dispute the GAA's figures or what's the issue?

My numbers are also freely available, from a report by the GAA for the Irish sport council. Do You dispute the GAAs figures?

I’m confused because there seems to be far more games development money than you’re have in your figures. Where is the rest of the money in your figures? For example is this additional money also available to the counties through non County allocations, possibly some of it provincially for example?

Enquiring

tritium wrote: »

My numbers are also freely available, from a report by the GAA for the Irish sport council. Do You dispute the GAAs figures?

I’m confused because there seems to be far more games development money than you’re have in your figures. Where is the rest of the money in your figures? For example is this additional money also available to the counties through non County allocations, possibly some of it provincially for example?

Games development money goes to the provincial council's also. Are you still trying to claim that Dublin are not on the Leinster council and don't receive money from the Leinster council? The money is just for other counties in Leinster? If so, you're going to have to back that up with some evidence.

tritium

Enquiring wrote: »

Games development money goes to the provincial council's also. Are you still trying to claim that Dublin are not on the Leinster council and don't receive money from the Leinster council? The money is just for other counties in Leinster? If so, you're going to have to back that up with some evidence.

Oh so your figures don’t tell the full story. That’s quite an admission for you since it means the figures you posted are misleading at best. Let’s look at the personnel deployment heading I quoted. The non dublin element is bigger than the total non dublin county allocation you provided. How is that broken down by county?