Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01

wirelessdude01 · 09-01-2021 10:04pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think it's very hard for teachers to get it right. Some parents will be very under-impressed if their child's teacher isn't firing on all cylinders and other parents and students will be stressed to high heaven by the very same thing. I don't have a high opinion of remote teaching from a whole class perspective but it's not at all the teachers that are lacking imo. It's just problematic when you try and inflict the classroom on the home. Parents educate their children all the time but in a very organic way not with forced formality and strict schedules.That can have the effect of damaging the parent child relationship. That's just my little rant but regardless we just have to keep doing the best we can and look forward hopefully.

Essentially no matter what teachers do it will be wrong in someone's eyes. Just like a normal day in school so ðŸ˜‚

khalessi · 09-01-2021 10:07pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Has any other school suddenly had the word "co-teaching" suddenly dropped on them?

Message from our principal today and wants SET co-teaching so that if the class teacher gets sick they take over. Am I wrong in thinking that this is completely wrong? If a class teacher was to get sick then a sub takes over. Shouldn't this still be the case?

Thats kinda what was suggested to me. I dont know the exact details for this but I cannot co teach multiple classes and my own group of kids. Will know more next week.

wirelessdude01 · 09-01-2021 10:08pm

Deeec wrote: »

If only Norma and the DES had the sense to sit down during the summer/autumn with representative teachers, principals, parents and students to find out what works and doesn't work in relation to remote learning. From the posts on here it's obvious that once again there are varied approaches being taken by different schools.

Realistically if you were to ask two sets of parents what they would like, they could be poles apart. School cannot be replicated at home and the sooner people wake up to this the better the experience will be for EVERYONE, especially so for the students.

You can see above, an unreasonable and unrealistic expectation from a principal that all students were to sit down as a device for an entire school day.

Deeec · 09-01-2021 10:15pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Realistically if you were to ask two sets of parents what they would like, they could be poles apart. School cannot be replicated at home and the sooner people wake up to this the better the experience will be for EVERYONE, especially so for the students.

You can see above, an unreasonable and unrealistic expectation from a principal that all students were to sit down as a device for an entire school day.

Yep you are right. I think though most sensible parents at this stage realise live online doesnt work. As a parent all I ever wanted was some form of teaching. A few short Videos per week is perfect in my eyes to supplement homework given.

wirelessdude01 · 09-01-2021 10:27pm

Deeec wrote: »

Yep you are right. I think though most sensible parents at this stage realise live online doesnt work. As a parent all I ever wanted was some form of teaching. A few short Videos per week is perfect in my eyes to supplement homework given.

Spent all day today recording videos and doing voiceovers.
Mrs spent all day yesterday at the same.

She sat down last night and just said "I wonder in what way will people complain about all that I've done today. Complain that I talk too loud, too low, too fast, too slow, not enough detail, too much detail, too long, too short".

Deeec · 09-01-2021 10:33pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Spent all day today recording videos and doing voiceovers.
Mrs spent all day yesterday at the same.

She sat down last night and just said "I wonder in what way will people complain about all that I've done today. Complain that I talk too loud, too low, too fast, too slow, not enough detail, too much detail, too long, too short".

Don't worry they should be received well. My kids teachers uploaded a few videos today for parents to review. All parents gave thumbs up. This time around we are delighted with what the teachers are providing. Last time the school didn't embrace remote interaction at all.

Bananaleaf · 09-01-2021 10:33pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Spent all day today recording videos and doing voiceovers.
Mrs spent all day yesterday at the same.

She sat down last night and just said "I wonder in what way will people complain about all that I've done today. Complain that I talk too loud, too low, too fast, too slow, not enough detail, too much detail, too long, too short".

Myself and a colleague were only saying more or less the same thing today. We have been 'teaching' each other on teams today, trying it all out. We've done Teams courses on Microsoft Education Courses website and got excited about getting certs for it!

I was only saying to her how I wished some of those telling us to "enjoy our month off" could have seen our Whatsapp and Teams today. See how much we worked on a Saturday and how excited we got about all that we will be able to provide to their children.

"They'd still complain, those ones" she replied.

She's right too.

BonsaiKitten · 09-01-2021 11:03pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Has any other school suddenly had the word "co-teaching" suddenly dropped on them?

Message from our principal today and wants SET co-teaching so that if the class teacher gets sick they take over. Am I wrong in thinking that this is completely wrong? If a class teacher was to get sick then a sub takes over. Shouldn't this still be the case?

Definitely should be the case shouldn't it? We have subs covering classes in my place next week anyway. Will be very hard on the sub teachers who are still looking for work otherwise, not to mention the poor SET.

A good friend of mine went into hospital with Covid last night and from what they've said, it's not looking like he's coming out anytime soon. Hoping he won't need ICU. He's barely 30, fit guy, into triathlons...can really happen to anyone. Mind yerselves out there people.

Stateofyou · 09-01-2021 11:41pm

Hope your friend will be ok BonsaiKitten

Can I ask you teachers did the DES specifically say to do live daily videos/check ins?

hesaidshesaid · 09-01-2021 11:48pm

Stateofyou wrote: »

Hope your friend will be ok BonsaiKitten

Can I ask you teachers did the DES specifically say to do live daily videos/check ins?

A few pages back, someone cut and pasted the instructions from the DES. Not sure who it was. Two way contact between students/teachers/parents was emphasised.

khalessi · 09-01-2021 11:50pm

Stateofyou wrote: »

Hope your friend will be ok BonsaiKitten

Can I ask you teachers did the DES specifically say to do live daily videos/check ins?

So this could be Q&A via classrooms which is what I did last year and worked well

wirelessdude01 · 09-01-2021 11:55pm

Stateofyou wrote: »

Hope your friend will be ok BonsaiKitten

Can I ask you teachers did the DES specifically say to do live daily videos/check ins?

Nope. There has to be two way communication. This can take many different forms.

Murple · 10-01-2021 12:19am

Two way communication can be a system like on Seesaw where the teacher comments on work uploaded by the child and the child can respond as well. This can be through typed comments, recorded comments or short videos. It doesn’t necessarily have to be Zoom calls or live interactions.

Murple · 10-01-2021 12:22am

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Just in relation to live lessons. I teach in a 5 teacher school. Principal wanted us to do zoom calls every day to each class as that is what the department want. Daily contact. Well according to her anyway. However all the teachers refused this as it would never work for parents. So we compromised and I myself have said I will do 2 per week. I sent out an email yesterday to my parents setting out the plan going forward. I have heard back from 9 out of 25 parents and the zoom calls suit 2. This was to be expected due to work and other commitments. I have no problem with it. People will do what suits them. Also backs up the argument that live does not suit a lot of people.

I have a junior infant and a 1st class child here. They attend the school in which I teach. We received an email from the school yesterday stating that all children were expected to be at the table from 9am to either 1.40 or 2.40. And to only take breaks as they normally would in school. I mean seriously? How out of touch are some teachers!! But I am not one bit surprised by this. I can't wait to see how things are going forward.

Apart from anything else, it is very unhealthy for a young child to be sitting at a screen for that length of time. I won’t be surprised if we get increasing numbers of children with vision problems in the months to come.

Cardamom and mimosa · 10-01-2021 12:36am

Deeec wrote: »

Possibly Im just throwing out suggestions. My thinking was that the personal needs of the kids could then be looked after by parents. The issue with opening the special schools seems to be the level of personal contact between staff and the kids. In a home setting parents are meeting those needs and the person going into help is providing professional services and not SNA services. Maybe Im completely wrong in my thinking though.

It would have to be done on a safe manner ie. PPE provided etc.

I dont see how this could work, theres not enough teachers and school staff to go to every special needs students house, a class teacher would have to go to 6 - 10 different homes every week.
teachers couldnt be expected to drive to or use public transport to multiple homes and back multiple times a week, allot of kids travel from other towns and counties to attend school so it would mean teachers would travelling to all different areas, Its not very practical.
Theres also the risk involved of staff catching covid and bringing it into students homes or infecting their own families.

khalessi · 10-01-2021 12:41am

Cardamom and mimosa wrote: »

I dont see how this could work, theres not enough teachers and school staff to go to every special needs students house, a class teacher would have to go to 6 - 10 different homes every week.
teachers couldnt be expected to drive to or use public transport to multiple homes and back multiple times a week, allot of kids travel from other towns and counties to attend school so it would mean teachers would travelling to all different areas, Its not very practical.
Theres also the risk involved of staff catching covid and bringing it into students homes or infecting their own families.

On top of that car insurance more then like only covers them for social and pleasure driving including commuting to work, but not driving place to place for work. This comes to mind as I was sorting car insurance out today. Also travelling to multiple houses during the week could open them all to infection.

beggars_bush · 10-01-2021 12:55am

Murple wrote: »

Apart from anything else, it is very unhealthy for a young child to be sitting at a screen for that length of time. I won’t be surprised if we get increasing numbers of children with vision problems in the months to come.

They've all probably been in front of screens over christmas!

Cardamom and mimosa · 10-01-2021 1:03am

khalessi wrote: »

On top of that car insurance more then like only covers them for social and pleasure driving including commuting to work, but not driving place to place for work. This comes to mind as I was sorting car insurance out today. Also travelling to multiple houses during the week could open them all to infection.

Hadnt even thought of car insurance, yes another issue and thats assuming all school staff have cars, many dont. How would teachers get to students who lived in rural areas or places that required connected buses/trains. It can take 2 or 3 hours to get somewhere on public transport that may take an hour with a car.
The time involved travelling from place to place would make it totally impracticable, I had students last year coming from areas within the county and from another county an hour away, all the students were spread out. Theres so few special needs schools that children travel a great distance to get to them. I had students who were up at 6am every morning and left the house at a 6.45 to be in school for 8.30.
There wouldnt be enough time in the day to educate the children once all the travelling is accounted for.

Then theres staff needing insurance to work in students homes.

Triangle · 10-01-2021 1:11am

Cardamom and mimosa wrote: »

Hadnt even thought of car insurance, yes another issue and thats assuming all school staff have cars, many dont. How would teachers get to students who lived in rural areas or places that required connected buses/trains. It can take 2 or 3 hours to get somewhere on public transport that may take an hour with a car.
The time involved travelling from place to place would make it totally impracticable, I had students last year coming from areas within the county and from another county an hour away, all the students were spread out. Theres so few special needs schools that children travel a great distance to get to them. I had students who were up at 6am every morning and left the house at a 6.45 to be in school for 8.30.
There wouldnt be enough time in the day to educate the children once all the travelling is accounted for.

Then theres staff needing insurance to work in students homes.

It's a lot more efficient to have the students move to the resource.
The unions don't look after the kids, their main objective is to increase and protect the teachers unfortunately.

km79 · 10-01-2021 1:29am

Triangle wrote: »

It's a lot more efficient to have the students move to the resource.
The unions don't look after the kids, their main objective is to increase and protect the teachers unfortunately.

It would be very helpful if unions could indeed “increase teachers“ . Something they have been trying to do .This would greatly benefit students. Unfortunately successive governments have decreased teacher numbers . So here we are with one of the highest pupil teacher ratios in Europe leading to overcrowded poorly resourced classrooms.

Locotastic · 10-01-2021 1:59am

Deeec wrote: »

Don't worry they should be received well. My kids teachers uploaded a few videos today for parents to review. All parents gave thumbs up. This time around we are delighted with what the teachers are providing. Last time the school didn't embrace remote interaction at all.

Finding the same here, much better structured and I think it will definitely be more consistent.

We are getting a mix of live, assigned Google classroom work and recorded sessions. Secondary day set times for start and finish, shorter day which will cover four subjects a day which is realistic.

Primary will be whatever comes through as assigned and I think the day will be more flexible.

We have to start CBAs here next week, some are due in February that the only thing that really worries me but I'm sure the teachers will explain what's required and support the students with it.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 10-01-2021 2:03am

Locotastic wrote: »

We have to start CBAs here next week, some are due in February that the only thing that really worries me but I'm sure the teachers will explain what's required and support the students with it.

CBAs were all reduced to 1 per last forblast years third years. This year's CBA deadlines will have to be extended. Don't worry about CBAs.

Cardamom and mimosa · 10-01-2021 2:10am

Triangle wrote: »

It's a lot more efficient to have the students move to the resource.
The unions don't look after the kids, their main objective is to increase and protect the teachers unfortunately.

The unions arent there to protect the children, theyre to protect teachers and their workers rights. Teachers pay unions through subscription fees.
You might be mixing up unions with the DES, ETB's and Teaching council, theyre the ones who are supposed to be protecting students and staff.

All 3 had since March last year to come up with a suitable plan of action to support students and staff but they did nothing. In August they threw money at school management and essentially told them to figure it out themselves then cut all funding by 40% a few weeks later.

Special schools are lethal places to be during this outbreak.
The children cant socially distance, they cant practice personal hygiene, they have intimate care needs. I had a child in my class last year that regularly needed his urinary catheter changed by SNA's. They scream, bite, spit, drool, eat and chew anything they can get their hands on.
If they cant communicate verbally they do so by touching, some need to be hand and spoon fed by staff, theyve to be brought to the toilet and helped to go/clean themselves, they cant wear masks, they cant use soap or sanitizer because of sensory issues.

SNA's and teachers in special schools have to sit with lots of different children throughout the day. And special needs children can have co morbidities that make them high risk.

They come from different towns/counties to attend school on a small bus crammed in beside each other. Several buses in my school had outbreaks, the bus escourts and bus drivers even caught covid from the kids.

I dont think many people know just how risky special schools and classes are.

khalessi · 10-01-2021 2:17am

Cardamom and mimosa wrote: »

. I had a child in my class last year that regularly needed his urinary catheter changed by SNA's.

Times might have changed it has been a while but when I was nursing, urinary catheters for males had to be changed by doctors whereas nurses could do female catherisations as the urinary canal was not as long.

Cardamom and mimosa · 10-01-2021 2:22am

khalessi wrote: »

Times might have changed it has been a while but when I was nursing, urinary catheters for males had to be changed by doctors whereas nurses could do female catherisations as the urinary canal was not as long.

Nope, SNA's have to do it.

khalessi · 10-01-2021 2:23am

Cardamom and mimosa wrote: »

Nope, SNA's have to do it.

Interesting, it was a hospital setting I was meaning but that is an awful position to put SNAs in.

Cardamom and mimosa · 10-01-2021 2:29am

khalessi wrote: »

Interesting, it was a hospital setting I was meaning but that is an awful position to put SNAs in.

Extremely. They go above and beyond their training.
I dont think people comprehend the student care needs that are undertaken by staff in SEN. Special schools are extremely high risk at this time.

TTLF · 10-01-2021 2:57am

Our school sent us an email today of our timetable today and I have to say it's a drastic improvement compared to last year. I now have about 5 classes a day, with a lovely big break on fridays with only 4 classes total. Plenty of breaks to get up and move around or time to study.

This is looking to be a way better system then the typical "quantity over quality" education many schools had back in March-May and it will probably help us focus more on our individual subjects. We also finish school at 2:40 instead now which is good so I can spend more time doing class work on my computer and then going straight into studying or taking a nap if I need one (since I get more tired with my condition) instead of ploughing through the 9 classes 9-3:30 junk like last time.

Hopefully other schools are following suit in secondary level and letting their students have more frequent and needed breaks, since we all know working in the same room is painful after about 2-3 days if it's constant.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, we also have frequent calls in small groups to discuss the LC uncertainty and give feedback too this time around!

mirrorwall14 · 10-01-2021 8:03am

TTLF wrote: »

Our school sent us an email today of our timetable today and I have to say it's a drastic improvement compared to last year. I now have about 5 classes a day, with a lovely big break on fridays with only 4 classes total. Plenty of breaks to get up and move around or time to study.

This is looking to be a way better system then the typical "quantity over quality" education many schools had back in March-May and it will probably help us focus more on our individual subjects. We also finish school at 2:40 instead now which is good so I can spend more time doing class work on my computer and then going straight into studying or taking a nap if I need one (since I get more tired with my condition) instead of ploughing through the 9 classes 9-3:30 junk like last time.

Hopefully other schools are following suit in secondary level and letting their students have more frequent and needed breaks, since we all know working in the same room is painful after about 2-3 days if it's constant.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, we also have frequent calls in small groups to discuss the LC uncertainty and give feedback too this time around!

Not even close. Full timetable to be followed. Albeit no homework at Junior level. It’s allowed at senior cycle. And every single subject is to be taught/work assigned from PE to wellbeing as well as all core subjects. All subjects minimum of one live a week. Roll call to be taken. Students have to camera on for the start of class at least so no PJs etc allowed. If teacher chooses to record these for students who cannot attend then it is up to the teacher to ensure GDPR compliance by editing the recording afterwards.

Not only that I believe we’re sticking with the staggered break times and lunchtimes for covid compliance so students will have four class periods in a row etc which isn’t really necessary since clearly we don’t need staggered breaks.

Now having said that, the pressure still feels less than last time on staff when it was ‘go live as much as possible’ which was impossible for some staff and let to enormous staff guilt and burnout. It is more realistic to allow blended this time

Students asked for more structure. But I think the whole school timetable is a lot to ask

Interestingly the guidance department with the student council are collecting the LC students opinions this time with a view to sending it to the Department which I think is a great idea.

Stateofyou · 10-01-2021 9:41am

Interesting article from the Independent this morning. It reports on kids and a principal who were very upset/concerned over being forced back to school in what they felt was a dangerous situation. Kids point out Minister Foley didn't meet with anyone impacted but should have. Then the article discusses the inequity of homeschooling and lack of planning by DES/Minister Foley. Will post some sections in case you can't access through paywall.

https://www.independent.ie/life/big-read-harsh-lessons-the-pitfalls-ahead-as-home-schooling-returns-39949459.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=seeding&fbclid=IwAR24wRaQmOypTwUvkxwJMOoewc2WN-TqWF7AYv002QCgQgCnQK2SVt5Iws0

The Teachers’ Union of Ireland described the move as “greatly concerning” and said it was not consulted before the announcement. Then the Association of Secondary Teachers in Ireland instructed members not to attend classes next week.

Ann Piggott, president of the Asti, said on Thursday that the union had “repeatedly sought sufficient assurances that schools are safe for students and teachers at this time” but had not received any.

The day after Foley’s initial announcement, the Government performed a U-turn: Leaving Cert students would not be returning to the classroom this month.

Caillum Hedderman, an 18-year-old Leaving Cert student at John the Baptist Community School in Hospital, Co Limerick, says there has been dismay among students about the lack of engagement from Foley. “The minister has not met with the people most affected by these decisions,” he says.

“The lack of communication that the Department of Education has had with students since this pandemic began is very disheartening.

“Has enough been done to bridge the gaps in educational inequality that we saw during the first lockdown?”

This a question that also troubles Labour’s education spokesman Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, a former teacher and school principal in Dublin’s north inner city. “The pandemic has really highlighted the huge inequality that’s prevalent in education in Ireland,” he says.

“There are many students out there without adequate resources for online learning. That was very apparent from March until the summer when classrooms were shut, and it will be apparent again with this lockdown.”

Ó Ríordáin says he supports remote learning as a tool to help drive down Covid case numbers, but he is urging Foley and her department “to do everything they can to help those who are disadvantaged”, including the continuation of school meals for students who were already receiving them.

“When the pandemic is over, we need to properly address the issues that have been magnified over the past year,” he says.

I don't think they need to or should wait until the pandemic is over to properly address these issues. WTF!

“But there’s also a huge digital divide in the country. Not every child in Ireland has access to heating [in poverty situations], and yet the Government says, ‘Go online, do remote learning’, but they’re assuming that all these children are going to have access to high-speed internet, or even to adequate devices. Yet even children who are quite economically advantaged might not still be in a position to do that because five or six people in their household might be working online at any one time.”

Teachers “are doing their best”, Browne Byrne says, but they haven’t been given enough notice or resources to deliver effective remote learning.

“The Department of Education has massively failed principals and teachers. Announcements have been given at the very last minute and the rumour mill [about closures] has been allowed to run wild,” she says.

It talks more about the inequities and challenges of remote learning we've all mentioned here, and parents challenges too especially where working or front line. Speculates about how long it will last and points out there is no guidance from government as to where we need to be in order to reopen schools.
Fairly good article!

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

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Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) Mod warning in OP 22/01