Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

Deeec

In my work I was being bombarded with out of hours emails which used to stress me out - I took my work email account off my phone for this reason. Now I only look at emails during work hours - my clients and work colleagues got used to the idea that if they email me at night or weekends I wont see it.

Modern technology is great but also had its disadvantages. 20 years ago noone would dream of contacting someone outside of their work hours. Now we seem to have this always contactable mentalility which is wrong. No way should teachers be looking at emails or replying to emails outside of school hours.

jrosen

lulublue22 wrote: »

I’ve already said that I can not comment on the schools provision of remote learning. However if you feel that teachers should be contactable 24/7 that’s on you. You will find that many won’t agree. I think you need to address you specific concerns with the school if you are unhappy with their response. Though you have indicated that you are happy with your own children’s teachers response.

I never said I thought a teacher should be contactable 24/7. I see no harm in sending emails when something is fresh in your mind. I specifically said I don’t expect an immediate response. I just don’t think the contact home was good enough.

Yes I am happy with my own teacher, he seemed to be laying down the groundwork as soon as we returned in September. Definitely comes across as a very diligent knowledgeable teacher and most importantly my son is happy and eager to learn.

Locotastic

Sammy2012 wrote: »

They have stipulated daily contact. I guess its up to the school how they deliver that.

We're having a daily check in via Google form, for primary but there's a few wellbeing questions in there too and a poll. It's quite sweet actually and also serves as a roll call too.

Stateofyou

I know what you're saying jrosen-the principal could have been much more tactful in the letter, and would have been great if he also added some reassurance in there. Our school principal did. Though the letter does refer to 'remote learning last year' when a once a week homework email from the principal not the teacher isn't what I would call remote learning. Smacked of PR. Letting that go as I think the plan going forward looks great, and taking teachers advice here to see how we get on and email teacher if any concerns.

I agree with you on the email subject, seeing as the emails are work emails, not personal and not their mobile or anything intrusive like that. You've said your intention to send when fresh on mind but not expect an immediate reply is fair enough. I agree it would be on teacher to set appropriate notifications which are easy to do. I use gmail and it has a 'boomerang' feature where you can write emails and schedule it to send at a certain time, so if your email has that function maybe it's a happy compromise?

lulublue22

jrosen wrote: »

I never said I thought a teacher should be contactable 24/7. I see no harm in sending emails when something is fresh in your mind. I specifically said I don’t expect an immediate response. I just don’t think the contact home was good enough.

Yes I am happy with my own teacher, he seemed to be laying down the groundwork as soon as we returned in September. Definitely comes across as a very diligent knowledgeable teacher and most importantly my son is happy and eager to learn.

You can send an email while it’s fresh in your mind - you can still do that and be cognisant of others by simply using scheduled send. At the end of the day it’s up to you how and when you communicate with others.

Sammy2012

Does anyone expect engagement to be less this time than last? I am just curious what is happening in other schools. I sent an email to my parents on Friday with the plan and i have only received responses from around 10 and out of that 10 only 2 will definitely be able to make the 2 scheduled zoom calls during the week. Obviously this is fine as I understand people are working and there are other things going on in the house. But I'm wondering will there be alot parents going its only for 3 weeks so I'm not going to bother.

lulublue22

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Does anyone expect engagement to be less this time than last? I am just curious what is happening in other schools. I sent an email to my parents on Friday with the plan and i have only received responses from around 10 and out of that 10 only 2 will definitely be able to make the 2 scheduled zoom calls during the week. Obviously this is fine as I understand people are working and there are other things going on in the house. But I'm wondering will there be alot parents going its only for 3 weeks so I'm not going to bother.

That’s hard to say - we had a cohort last year who despite our best efforts - providing devices, email , ringing texting etc just did not engage. I fully understand parents not being able to participate in live lessons particularly at primary . There is still a large section of society classed as essential workers , wfh , number of siblings, learning needs, number of devices , broadband speeds , extended family issues will all impact on engagement. Many will do the best they can in the circumstances they find themselves in.

ETA - I wouldn’t take unable to attend live lessons as a lack of engagement. You can’t take the school day and recreate it in a home setting. Yes there will be a cohort who will be in a position to engage in live lessons but there will also be a cohort who through no fault of their own will be pin to collar trying to organise being available for live lessons and many who with the best will in the world won’t manage to.

wirelessdude01

the corpo wrote: »

Can any of the primary teachers let me know if the Department has mandated a minimum of online video time (whether Zoom or pre-recorded etc).

The whatsapp groups in our school are flying with parents going "yeah, but my neighbours are getting 5x30 minute zoom calls a week", "ACME NS is getting videos at start and end of day", and it's causing a lot of confusion as to what should be expected.

The DES have played a blinder. Both sides pitted against each other.

Even within schools you have management pitted against staff with what is needed, what is required and what is realistic.

jimmytwotimes 2013

lulublue22 wrote: »

ETA - I wouldn’t take unable to attend live lessons as a lack of engagement. You can’t take the school day and recreate it in a home setting. Yes there will be a cohort who will be in a position to engage in live lessons but there will also be a cohort who through no fault of their own will be pin to collar trying to organise being available for live lessons and many who best will in the world won’t manage to.

Agree but the push for live lessons is very apparent this time. Good few are going to miss out on work covered as a result.

PhilOssophy

Thread is TLDR, but there is definitely merit in the proposal in the paper today of vaccinating leaving cert students and their teachers . There is no reason why the leaving couldn't be pushed back by a few months to accommodate, even hold it in October/November and have this cohort start their studies in January.
Anything which saves last years row should be on the table now. It is in nobody's interest for another year of predicted grades.

the corpo

Telling parents not to mail in the evenings etc., is silly and unreasonable. I won't have a chance to review and think of any questions until the evening time, and that's when I'll mail. However, I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume the teacher won't be checking school mails until the next day.

Principal, like all bosses in all jobs, should tell their staff they don't need to check their emails when they're not on the clock.

khalessi

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Thread is TLDR, but there is definitely merit in the proposal in the paper today of vaccinating leaving cert students and their teachers . There is no reason why the leaving couldn't be pushed back by a few months to accommodate, even hold it in October/November and have this cohort start their studies in January.
Anything which saves last years row should be on the table now. It is in nobody's interest for another year of predicted grades.

I was listening to Prof Karina Butler about this and she was saying that they would not be doing this. THe reason being that the vaccine prevent people getting bad effects of the virus so better to vaccinate the moer vunerable. But if they knew it prevented transmission then vaccinating leaving cert students would be the way to go.

PhilOssophy

khalessi wrote: »

I was listening to Prof Karina Butler about this and she was saying that they would not be doing this. THe reason being that the vaccine prevent people getting bad effects of the virus so better to vaccinate the moer vunerable. But if they knew it prevented transmission then vaccinating leaving cert students would be the way to go.

But the most vulnerable will be vaccinated in a matter of weeks, so I think the suggestion was after those providing essential care and in nursing homes.

mirrorwall14

Is the proposal to also vaccinate the supervisors? Because honestly otherwise I think it’s an outrageous suggestion to exclude the adults who are far more likely at risk if they catch it and just vaccinate the 17-18 year olds.

I have zero issue with it if it isn’t done until May at the earliest. Everyone at higher risk of death or serious illness gets priority over a state exam in my book

It does also open a massive can of worms, what if a student doesn’t get it?

I still say LC as normal for now with more (and much farther reaching) adjustments to the papers. Make the orals and practicals work using extra examiners, social distancing and even webcams with the examiner outside the door if necessary. We can worry about the exam halls themselves in April/May.

Right now we need a whole realistic plan for getting courses covered and running the orals, practicals and project work with the current scenario.


And the fact this isn’t already planned for is a DISGRACE

thomas 123

the corpo wrote: »

Telling parents not to mail in the evenings etc., is silly and unreasonable. I won't have a chance to review and think of any questions until the evening time, and that's when I'll mail. However, I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume the teacher won't be checking school mails until the next day.

Principal, like all bosses in all jobs, should tell their staff they don't need to check their emails when they're not on the clock.

One would assume thats blatantly obvious but reading this thread it appears not to be.

khalessi

the corpo wrote: »

Telling parents not to mail in the evenings etc., is silly and unreasonable. I won't have a chance to review and think of any questions until the evening time, and that's when I'll mail. However, I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume the teacher won't be checking school mails until the next day.

Principal, like all bosses in all jobs, should tell their staff they don't need to check their emails when they're not on the clock.

For the majority of parents this makes sense, email in the evening or at night and not expect an email, but you always get some who think you should respond immediately.

Therefore a message sent to all parents for the few who then you can say well we did advise you teachers would not answer outside of school hours.

PhilOssophy

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Is the proposal to also vaccinate the supervisors? Because honestly otherwise I think it’s an outrageous suggestion to exclude the adults who are far more likely at risk if they catch it and just vaccinate the 17-18 year olds.

I'm sure by the time the leaving rolls around, the supervisors could easily be vaccinated as well. For now, the focus should surely be on teachers/students.

jimmytwotimes 2013

thomas 123 wrote: »

One would assume thats blatantly obvious but reading this thread it appears not to be.

Our principal likes a "quick response time" so it's not always obvious

thomas 123

khalessi wrote: »

For the majority of parents this makes sense, email in the evening or at night and not expect an email, but you always get some who think you should respond immediately.

Therefore a message sent to all parents for the few who then you can say well we did advise you teachers would not answer outside of school hours.

Id go further and suggest you set a 24 hour expectation on all responses, sure if ye are teaching ye won’t have time to respond right?

thomas 123

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Our principal likes a "quick response time" so it's not always obvious

Christ.

mirrorwall14

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I'm sure by the time the leaving rolls around, the supervisors could easily be vaccinated as well. For now, the focus should surely be on teachers/students.

Well it depends on the purpose of the exercise

Is the reason for exam halls or because of school itself? Is it being assumed that no schools are opening for months? If it’s for school classrooms itself what about all the other students, very high risk students and high risk? Why just the leaving certs? Other students schooling is suffering too

If it’s for the exam halls themselves then it is the supervisors you need to vaccinate. The teachers aren’t as relevant

SpacialNeeds

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The DES have played a blinder. Both sides pitted against each other.

Even within schools you have management pitted against staff with what is needed, what is required and what is realistic.

Yeah realistically nobody is jumping the gun to that extent because the plan for online learning will begin tomorrow.

titan18

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Thread is TLDR, but there is definitely merit in the proposal in the paper today of vaccinating leaving cert students and their teachers . There is no reason why the leaving couldn't be pushed back by a few months to accommodate, even hold it in October/November and have this cohort start their studies in January.
Anything which saves last years row should be on the table now. It is in nobody's interest for another year of predicted grades.

I think it's a ridiculous proposal myself. Constantly told schools are safe for transmission and people of that age are safe so why would they get vaccines over more vulnerable people. Imo, no way should they be getting vaccines over anyone over the age of 60 who wants one, or anyone work in a frontline healthcare profession. Theres a better case for teachers to be moved up to allow schools to return than the students imo.

Sammy2012

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Agree but the push for live lessons is very apparent this time. Good few are going to miss out on work covered as a result.

I don't plan on doing much new stuff with the kids. In Maths anyway. I will be using my 2 class zoom calls per week as a check in with the kids. Just to say hi and have a quick chat! 40 minutes cut off so won't be long. I am planning on doing some small group calls to help with some Maths revision. I will keep a list and then work with the kids who couldn't do it when we go back to school. I am hopeful that we will be back to school in 3 weeks but I do think we will know alot more about the situation in 7 to 10 days time so will reassess if I need to.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Sammy2012 wrote: »

I don't plan on doing much new stuff with the kids. In Maths anyway. I will be using my 2 class zoom calls per week as a check in with the kids. Just to say hi and have a quick chat! 40 minutes cut off so won't be long. I am planning on doing some small group calls to help with some Maths revision. I will keep a list and then work with the kids who couldn't do it when we go back to school. I am hopeful that we will be back to school in 3 weeks but I do think we will know alot more about the situation in 7 to 10 days time so will reassess if I need to.

Don't think we'll be back anytime soon. Hospitals and GPs already under savage pressure, school reopening with new variants floating cud let to another surge in cases. Who's going to risk that? Bar Norma

km79

the corpo wrote: »

Telling parents not to mail in the evenings etc., is silly and unreasonable. I won't have a chance to review and think of any questions until the evening time, and that's when I'll mail. However, I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume the teacher won't be checking school mails until the next day.

Principal, like all bosses in all jobs, should tell their staff they don't need to check their emails when they're not on the clock.

You can schedule your email to go during working hours the following day/morning

PhilOssophy

titan18 wrote: »

I think it's a ridiculous proposal myself. Constantly told schools are safe for transmission and people of that age are safe so why would they get vaccines over more vulnerable people. Imo, no way should they be getting vaccines over anyone over the age of 60 who wants one, or anyone work in a frontline healthcare profession. Theres a better case for teachers to be moved up to allow schools to return than the students imo.

And you believe them that schools are safe? I don't for a second. Nor do I believe a school is a safe setting without vaccines for both students and teachers, and I can't see teachers going back in any time soon without them (and rightly so). The priority has to be LC classes, everybody else can with if you ask me.

I never said they should be vaccinated before frontline healthcare professionals (and my follow-up post clarified that as I agree that should never be the case).

Its only 60k students plus their teachers, not 600k looking to be moved up. It can be done.

Murple

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Does anyone expect engagement to be less this time than last? I am just curious what is happening in other schools. I sent an email to my parents on Friday with the plan and i have only received responses from around 10 and out of that 10 only 2 will definitely be able to make the 2 scheduled zoom calls during the week. Obviously this is fine as I understand people are working and there are other things going on in the house. But I'm wondering will there be alot parents going its only for 3 weeks so I'm not going to bother.

I don’t think social media/discussion forums are representative of the general public in many cases. I think many parents will look at how their children settled back to school in September and how they have been getting on since and will see that keeping the household happy and healthy is the priority for January.
At primary level, if every child from 1st to 6th spent 40-60 mins a day reading and 20-30 mins on number facts and tables, and those in infants spent 30 mins with books and phonics type activities and 30 mins on fine motor skills activities like tracing, colouring, drawing, cutting, sticking, they would reap the benefits whenever schools reopen.

wirelessdude01

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Does anyone expect engagement to be less this time than last? I am just curious what is happening in other schools. I sent an email to my parents on Friday with the plan and i have only received responses from around 10 and out of that 10 only 2 will definitely be able to make the 2 scheduled zoom calls during the week. Obviously this is fine as I understand people are working and there are other things going on in the house. But I'm wondering will there be alot parents going its only for 3 weeks so I'm not going to bother.

Anyone thinking we will be fully reopened by Feb the 1st needs their heads knocked together.

I asked mine to confirm that they had got stuff from me and got 3 replies out of 29. You can lead a horse to water but cannot make them drink.

wirelessdude01

khalessi wrote: »

For the majority of parents this makes sense, email in the evening or at night and not expect an email, but you always get some who think you should respond immediately.

Therefore a message sent to all parents for the few who then you can say well we did advise you teachers would not answer outside of school hours.

I had a parent complain to my principal the last time that I hadn't replied to an email they had sent at 2:45pm on a Friday until Monday morning. They couldn't, probably more apt to say, wouldn't understand how the weekend was off the clock. This parent should have known better and ended up destroying the relationship I had with their kids outside of school. Some people just don't seer things except through their own prism.