Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

mirrorwall14

Thanks for the link. Interesting read and a lot better than the hatched job education normally gets.

I’m disappointed that there’s differences up and down the country. Different schools, different expectations, no maximum expectation for schools and for students. I am concerned that students are being lost in this. Schools are covering their ass so to speak and going all out to tick every box to avoid the usual vitriol (wall to wall live classes etc) but no one is actually thinking of how students can cope with this.

I don’t think it’s realistic to try and replicate the entire second level curriculum remotely for example. I think the DES should have been explicitly instructing schools on reducing the curriculum and the expectations immediately and course content reductions should have been ready and automatically announced as part of the closures. All extraneous subjects should have been scrapped in favour of something like a coffee break zoom for the students to just chat. Well-being could just be ‘how are you’ chats. CSPE could wait. PE could be just go for a walk. Where possible put those teacher in for support with main subjects otherwise task them with admin or calling parents to see how things are going or the myriad of other things schools need doing and never have time for. Instead in the absence of guidance and fear of losing time schools are going all out to try and do exactly what they do in class.

I have 5th year maths for example. The course is incredibly long, far too long generally never mind in a pandemic. They were already going to have to work over all their breaks and have work assigned this summer to try and get work done. I cannot afford to slow down. If I do they won’t finish, then I’ll have parents and students freaking out at me that it’s no complete. If I don’t slow down while remote learning they’ll struggle and parents/students will be freaking out. It’s a lose lose for me and the students. Corresponding reductions in content should have been prepared and ready to go.

Stateofyou

To sum it up, what a shít show. A lot of that excrement could have been avoided if NF/DES had only rolled up their gd sleeves. I'm obviously still needing to go calm down.

Natterjack from Kerry

Stateofyou wrote: »

Interesting article from the Independent this morning. It reports on kids and a principal who were very upset/concerned over being forced back to school in what they felt was a dangerous situation.

This is the problem in a nutshell though - teachers and pupils making risk assessments that they are unqualified to make.

Their 'feeling' of what is a dangerous situation is coming from their side, and one they should realise they cannot make. Perhaps communication would help allay these fears, and to some extent is understandable from the pupils, but more can be expected from principals and teachers who should be showing leadership and not trying to double think, from a point of little expertise, the expert public health advice being provided to the department and the minister.

Teachers have been let down by obstructive unions in this debacle, and pupils are the real losers. Teachers are loosing little other than public esteem for them.

Stateofyou

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

This is the problem in a nutshell though - teachers and pupils making risk assessments that they are unqualified to make.

Their 'feeling' of what is a dangerous situation is coming from their side, and one they should realise they cannot make. Perhaps communication would help allay these fears, and to some extent is understandable from the pupils, but more can be expected from principals and teachers who should be showing leadership and not trying to double think, from a point of little expertise, the expert public health advice being provided to the department and the minister.

Teachers have been let down by obstructive unions in this debacle, and pupils are the real losers. Teachers are loosing little other than public esteem for them.

The problem in a nutshell is the Minister of Education making risk assessments from uniformed decisions they are unqualified to make.

Our kids, teachers, and those most vulnerable are the real losers because of that.

wirelessdude01

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Teachers are loosing little other than public esteem for them.

You can't lose what you really never had.

downthemiddle

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

This is the problem in a nutshell though - teachers and pupils making risk assessments that they are unqualified to make.

Their 'feeling' of what is a dangerous situation is coming from their side, and one they should realise they cannot make. Perhaps communication would help allay these fears, and to some extent is understandable from the pupils, but more can be expected from principals and teachers who should be showing leadership and not trying to double think, from a point of little expertise, the expert public health advice being provided to the department and the minister.

Teachers have been let down by obstructive unions in this debacle, and pupils are the real losers. Teachers are loosing little other than public esteem for them.

NPHET have stated that they were not consulted about opening special classes or bringing back Leaving Cert students. You are correct, the minister should not have made a risk assessment she was wholly unqualified to make.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Teachers have been let down by obstructive unions in this debacle, and pupils are the real losers. Teachers are loosing little other than public esteem for them.

Thanks for that. Better get back to preparing for online lessons next week. Have videos, podcasts, pictures, PowerPoints, Kahoots, quizlet's etc ready. Look forward to seeing the lads online and having a chat with them.

I'm sorry it's not enuf for you.

Sammy2012

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Definitely should be the case shouldn't it? We have subs covering classes in my place next week anyway. Will be very hard on the sub teachers who are still looking for work otherwise, not to mention the poor SET.

A good friend of mine went into hospital with Covid last night and from what they've said, it's not looking like he's coming out anytime soon. Hoping he won't need ICU. He's barely 30, fit guy, into triathlons...can really happen to anyone. Mind yerselves out there people.

I hope your friend is okay Bonsai! There really is so much to be said for our health.

the corpo

Can any of the primary teachers let me know if the Department has mandated a minimum of online video time (whether Zoom or pre-recorded etc).

The whatsapp groups in our school are flying with parents going "yeah, but my neighbours are getting 5x30 minute zoom calls a week", "ACME NS is getting videos at start and end of day", and it's causing a lot of confusion as to what should be expected.

Sammy2012

the corpo wrote: »

Can any of the primary teachers let me know if the Department has mandated a minimum of online video time (whether Zoom or pre-recorded etc).

The whatsapp groups in our school are flying with parents going "yeah, but my neighbours are getting 5x30 minute zoom calls a week", "ACME NS is getting videos at start and end of day", and it's causing a lot of confusion as to what should be expected.

They have stipulated daily contact. I guess its up to the school how they deliver that.

the kelt

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

This is the problem in a nutshell though - teachers and pupils making risk assessments that they are unqualified to make.

Their 'feeling' of what is a dangerous situation is coming from their side, and one they should realise they cannot make. Perhaps communication would help allay these fears, and to some extent is understandable from the pupils, but more can be expected from principals and teachers who should be showing leadership and not trying to double think, from a point of little expertise, the expert public health advice being provided to the department and the minister.

Teachers have been let down by obstructive unions in this debacle, and pupils are the real losers. Teachers are loosing little other than public esteem for them.

We are averaging 7000 cases a day and the virus is completely rampant in every community in the country.

Only an utter moron would think it’s feasible to be opening schools and that we are not in a dangerous situation throughout the entire country.

I mean what kinda numbnuts thinks opening schools when we are averaging 7000 cases a day is feasible. The answer is Norma it’s kinda unbelievable how she is still in a job Foley. I can see now why the joke around government circles is if the DOE were running the coronavirus response we would all be dead!

The expert public health advice was that schools shouldn’t open, what more do you want?

I mean it’s not rocket science or anything, when the community is relatively safe so are schools, when the situation throughout the country is relatively stable numbers wise schools are relatively safe, take note that’s what the cmo keeps saying “relatively safe”

I’m still aghast at the utter stupidity of people thinking schools can open under the current circumstances as if they’re some ****ing narnia where normality takes leave of itself, my god these people are dumb as!

khalessi

Stateofyou wrote: »

The problem in a nutshell is the Minister of Education making risk assessments from uniformed decisions they are unqualified to make.

Our kids, teachers, and those most vulnerable are the real losers because of that.

We already know that Normal Foley went on a solo run with this. She tool advice from no one about reopening the schools adn the advice would have been to wait, that it was too dangerous to open them.
We also know that the numbers reported from schools is being recorded incorrectly and reported as incorrect. NF went on tv and said there were 94 cases of covid in week 51 when there was actually iirc 207 minimum. The reopeing of schools was a pure ego driven exercise for votes.

Murple

the corpo wrote: »

Can any of the primary teachers let me know if the Department has mandated a minimum of online video time (whether Zoom or pre-recorded etc).

The whatsapp groups in our school are flying with parents going "yeah, but my neighbours are getting 5x30 minute zoom calls a week", "ACME NS is getting videos at start and end of day", and it's causing a lot of confusion as to what should be expected.

No there is no mandated minimum online video time. In fact, I don’t think that video time is compulsory. The department have suggested a mix of methods can be used across a range of different platforms.
I think it’s really unhelpful for parents to be comparing what a school has decided to do. Would it not be better to wait and see how the child gets on with the work and contact the school if there is a problem. Also they should think about September to December- how did the child get on once back at school. If they settled back well and made good progress, then trust the school and teacher will help the child as best they can.
You’d swear there were make-or-break state exams for all children at the end of this month! The hysteria being stirred up among some parents online and in Whatspp groups is adding to a very worrying and stressful time.

Crocodile Booze

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

This is the problem in a nutshell though - teachers and pupils making risk assessments that they are unqualified to make.

Their 'feeling' of what is a dangerous situation is coming from their side, and one they should realise they cannot make. Perhaps communication would help allay these fears, and to some extent is understandable from the pupils, but more can be expected from principals and teachers who should be showing leadership and not trying to double think, from a point of little expertise, the expert public health advice being provided to the department and the minister.

Teachers have been let down by obstructive unions in this debacle, and pupils are the real losers. Teachers are loosing little other than public esteem for them.

Go to bed Norma, you're drunk.

lulublue22

Murple wrote: »

No there is no mandated minimum online video time. In fact, I don’t think that video time is compulsory. The department have suggested a mix of methods can be used across a range of different platforms.
I think it’s really unhelpful for parents to be comparing what a school has decided to do. Would it not be better to wait and see how the child gets on with the work and contact the school if there is a problem. Also they should think about September to December- how did the child get on once back at school. If they settled back well and made good progress, then trust the school and teacher will help the child as best they can.
You’d swear there were make-or-break state exams for all children at the end of this month! The hysteria being stirred up among some parents online and in Whatspp groups is adding to a very worrying and stressful time.

It’s so ridiculous - the issue should be how is my child getting on - never mind what the neighbours aunts daughters friends child school is doing or isn’t doing. You’d swear children were a hive of autonomous robots who all learned in the same way at the same rate.

The best piece of advice to any parent is engage with the work given to the best of your ability and flag any concerns with your child’s teacher.

jrosen

Well the absolute **** show of an email from our school.

Basically how tired and fed up everyone is, how we are not to send emails in the evening or weekends to the teachers. How this time round will be worse.

Us to decide to how long the kids work for, how they work, where they work.
No mention of teachers, no stream lined approach. He’s a waste of space and I’ve said from the day he stayed he came to our school to sit out his years untill retirement.

I am lucky my child’s teacher has gone and set his own path but for any teacher who chooses not too or has a half arsed attempt it’s evident there will be no guidance/enforcement from the top.
It was the same last time round.

lulublue22

jrosen wrote: »

Well the absolute **** show of an email from our school.

Basically how tired and fed up everyone is, how we are not to send emails in the evening or weekends to the teachers. How this time round will be worse.

Us to decide to how long the kids work for, how they work, where they work.
No mention of teachers, no stream lined approach. He’s a waste of space and I’ve said from the day he stayed he came to our school to sit out his years untill retirement.

I am lucky my child’s teacher has gone and set his own path but for any teacher who chooses not too or has a half arsed attempt it’s evident there will be no guidance/enforcement from the top.
It was the same last time round.

Can’t comment on how your school is dealing or not dealing with the remote learning but in relation to emails at evenings and weekends 1000% agree. Teachers have families and home lives too with all that entails including remote learning for their own children. Everyone needs to mind their mental health including teachers and having an expectation that up to 30 parents are free to email and expect a reply over the weekend or evenings in my opinion is not on.

mirrorwall14

lulublue22 wrote: »

Can’t comment on how your school is dealing or not dealing with the remote learning but in relation to emails at evenings and weekends 1000% agree. Teachers have families and home lives too with all that entails including remote learning for their own children. Everyone needs to mind their mental health including teachers and having an expectation that up to 30 parents are free to email and expect a reply over the weekend or evenings in my opinion is not on.

We’ve been told absolutely no sending of emails to parents or students outside of hours. All to be scheduled when we are working out of hours. Parents and students are going to have it explained that unfortunately google classroom private feedback cannot be scheduled but students should turn off notifications at night.

It is difficult to find a balance but it definitely sounds like the tone of that jrosen was wrong. Hopefully it’s more that they are allowing autonomy for teachers but have a minimum set that they didn’t tell parents

Stateofyou

jrosen wrote: »

Well the absolute **** show of an email from our school.

Basically how tired and fed up everyone is, how we are not to send emails in the evening or weekends to the teachers. How this time round will be worse.

Us to decide to how long the kids work for, how they work, where they work.
No mention of teachers, no stream lined approach. He’s a waste of space and I’ve said from the day he stayed he came to our school to sit out his years untill retirement.

I am lucky my child’s teacher has gone and set his own path but for any teacher who chooses not too or has a half arsed attempt it’s evident there will be no guidance/enforcement from the top.
It was the same last time round.

I don't see any issue here? Seems honest and reasonable to me. Not saying your schools principal isn't in a$$ on the regular, but in absence of an equitable remote learning policy from the DES (shame on them) the teachers seem to have the freedom to set their delivery. I'm sure most rise to the challenge (though they shouldn't have to go at this from scratch).

Stateofyou

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/coronavirus/a-dangerous-hellish-beast-—-new-data-confirms-new-uk-covid-19-strain-highly-transmissible-in-children/ar-BB1cCBI3?li=BBr5KbJ

Not sending in kids seems to more and more be the right path.

An American epidemiologist has now warned that the new B117 UK strain of COVID-19 appears to be more transmissible in children.

Eric Feigl-Ding, a Senior Fellow at the Federation of American Scientists, shared the findings on Twitter.

He wrote: ‘The B117 SARS-CoV-2 variant from [the UK] is a dangerous hellish beast.

‘This new UK data shows attack rates (% exposed who get infected) of B117 vs common variants. B117 has 33-36% higher attack rate overall. It’s also maybe worse in kids.

‘While the B117 variant has 33-36% higher attack rate vs common types overall. It’s even greater in youngest kids. Notably, in kids 0-9, the new B117 is 43% higher in the shortcut B117 test.

‘Furthermore, in genetic tests of b117, the B117 has 47.5% higher attack rate vs common virus type among kids age 0-9. Compare that with only 39.5% higher for B117 among adults.’

The data shared by Mr Feigl-Ding also showed that the new UK B117 strain is more transmissible in older children compared to the traditional strain.

The figures show that in children aged between 10 and 19-years-old the virus is 29.8%.

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1347745261670584321?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1347745261670584321%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fextra.ie%2F2021%2F01%2F10%2Fnews%2Fworld-news%2Fuk-b117-strain-covid-19-children

Check out this twitter thread. Very sobering.

CRUSH VIRUS NOW OR ELSE WE ARE SCREWED: Denmark’s CDC thinks new B117 #SARSCoV2 variant is so much more contagious (R +0.4 to +0.7) & inevitable that **if any country does not crush the R<0.7 now**, we will be completely #COVID19 screwed by Feb/March.

Stateofyou

https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1345858404263321600

km79

jrosen wrote: »

Well the absolute **** show of an email from our school.

Basically how tired and fed up everyone is, how we are not to send emails in the evening or weekends to the teachers. How this time round will be worse.

Us to decide to how long the kids work for, how they work, where they work.
No mention of teachers, no stream lined approach. He’s a waste of space and I’ve said from the day he stayed he came to our school to sit out his years untill retirement.

I am lucky my child’s teacher has gone and set his own path but for any teacher who chooses not too or has a half arsed attempt it’s evident there will be no guidance/enforcement from the top.
It was the same last time round.

Sounds like that Principal is at his or hers wits end from the lack of national guidance from the Dept of Education
Syllabus , curriculum , minimum contact hours for each subject etc etc are laid down by the Dept to ensure equity and uniformity across all schools . Inspectors nit pick these during inspections
But for remote learning
“Off ye go and the best of luck “
Not good enough
They have had NINE MONTHS

khalessi

km79 wrote: »

Sounds like that Principal is at his or hers wits end from the lack of national guidance from the Dept of Education
Syllabus , curriculum , minimum contact hours for each subject etc etc are laid down by the Dept to ensure equity and uniformity across all schools . Inspectors nit pick these during inspections
But for remote learning
“Off ye go and the best of luck “
Not good enough
They have had NINE MONTHS

This is what gets me.

It is great to go on tv/radio/sm and tell parents do what you can the school work is just a guide, like they did in the first lockdown.

But not to alter the basic curriculum to account for lockdown and peoples circumstances, results in teachers trying to keep up with curriculum as it is in normal circumstance. This results in large amounts of work being sent home and parents and children being overwhelmed trying to manage in their various home set ups.

BonsaiKitten

lulublue22 wrote: »

Can’t comment on how your school is dealing or not dealing with the remote learning but in relation to emails at evenings and weekends 1000% agree. Teachers have families and home lives too with all that entails including remote learning for their own children. Everyone needs to mind their mental health including teachers and having an expectation that up to 30 parents are free to email and expect a reply over the weekend or evenings in my opinion is not on.

Totally agree, my school sent out something very similar. They'll probably still email of course but it was to hammer home the message that just because we're working at home doesn't mean we're suddenly available 24/7. If I get emails from parents outside of working hours I might reply but the email will be on scheduled send so that my reply only goes during the school day.

lulublue22

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Totally agree, my school sent out something very similar. They'll probably still email of course but it was to hammer home the message that just because we're working at home doesn't mean we're suddenly available 24/7. If I get emails from parents outside of working hours I might reply but the email will be on scheduled send so that my reply only goes during the school day.

That’s what I did last lock down - I had 2 sets of parents that I always replied to asap as I knew they were struggling big time for various reasons , all other emails were scheduled. I know for my own wellbeing I can’t be on call 24/7 it’s not fair on my own family or myself.

Weepsie

Teachers should be told to just set Maths and English work pretty much, with maybe a little time one day a week for Art / History / Science etc.

They're the two important subjects. So long as the literacy and numeracy of kids is maintained and hopefully improved then they'll be largely okay going forward.

jrosen

I think I might have said this before but I would send off an email and not give a second thought to day or time. I send when I have the concern or query and it’s fresh in my mind.
I don’t however expect an immediate response. Our teachers for the first time ever have been available to contact via email. It’s a school email so not their own personal one. They don’t have to open that email folder outside of work hours.
It’s their responsibility to manage that IMO.

lulublue22

jrosen wrote: »

I think I might have said this before but I would send off an email and not give a second thought to day or time. I send when I have the concern or query and it’s fresh in my mind.
I don’t however expect an immediate response. Our teachers for the first time ever have been available to contact via email. It’s a school email so not their own personal one. They don’t have to open that email folder outside of work hours.
It’s their responsibility to manage that IMO.

You may not but there are many who do / would. I think it’s spot on for the principal to be clear - evenings and weekends are off limits. Not unreasonable in my opinion.

ETA - scheduled send is very handy - parent gets to write email when it suits - teacher gets to receive email during working hours. A small simple thing but great for maintaining positive relationships on both sides.

jrosen

lulublue22 wrote: »

That’s what I did last lock down - I had 2 sets of parents that I always replied to asap as I knew they were struggling big time for various reasons , all other emails were scheduled. I know for my own wellbeing I can’t be on call 24/7 it’s not fair on my own family or myself.

Well we shall agree to disagree

When your communication has been shocking to date and you send a 2 paragraph email home to parents some of whom have had zero contact from their class teacher I think the focus should have been more on what the school has actively been doing in order to prepare, what lessons were learned from the last time
Not this is worse than last time, please don’t contact teachers outside of work hours and a list as to what parents need to do.

There was nothing in that email to settle the nerves or reassure any parent. It’s not good enough.
Some teachers have not reached out at all so parents don’t even have an email contact for their child’s teacher.
We can blame the gov and depts all we like and yes they need to be held accountable but their lack of planning is not an excuse for a schools lack of initiative

lulublue22

jrosen wrote: »

Well we shall agree to disagree

When your communication has been shocking to date and you send a 2 paragraph email home to parents some of whom have had zero contact from their class teacher I think the focus should have been more on what the school has actively been doing in order to prepare, what lessons were learned from the last time
Not this is worse than last time, please don’t contact teachers outside of work hours and a list as to what parents need to do.

There was nothing in that email to settle the nerves or reassure any parent. It’s not good enough.
Some teachers have not reached out at all so parents don’t even have an email contact for their child’s teacher.
We can blame the gov and depts all we like and yes they need to be held accountable but their lack of planning is not an excuse for a schools lack of initiative

I’ve already said that I can not comment on the schools provision of remote learning. However if you feel that teachers should be contactable 24/7 that’s on you. You will find that many won’t agree. I think you need to address you specific concerns with the school if you are unhappy with their response. Though you have indicated that you are happy with your own children’s teachers response.