Advertisement
Where is Report Post on mobile? We've made a slight change, see here
Have your say on the future of the 'Save Draft' feature in this poll
MODs please see this information notice in the mod's forum. Thanks!
How to add spoiler tags, edit posts, add images etc. How to - a user's guide to the new version of Boards

Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

134689331

Comments



  • 17 pages on Updated Guidance on Continuity of Schooling:
    Supporting pupils at risk of educational disadvantage
    For primary schools
    16 pages on Updated Guidance on Continuity of Schooling:
    Supporting Pupils with Special Educational Needs
    For mainstream primary and special schools

    Arrived at 19.08 to schools this evening.

    Well Friday night is traditional horror night and reading that will get ye in the mood:D




  • If zooms to be increased will there be some childcare facility for those who need it? Presume no mention of this?

    Childcare for who?




  • So, for now the exam goes ahead. That's all good and well but there have been no concessions bar an extra question added to acknowledge the terribly curtailed leaving cert course these students have had. To listen to Norma et al, her goal is a leaving cert exactly like other years so why wouldn't these kids be terrified. They know the course is not finished and has no hope of being so unless you're in a cram school. And then you have the likes of History Queen saying "There are 6 months to go" when there are 4 at best (with time off for good behaviour).

    Matt Cooper suggesting the leaving cert runs into July....obviously his kids don't have to dedicate their summer's to working for university funds. Oh the privilege. Others suggesting the 6th years get their summer holidays now and do school and exams right through summer months....

    I despair. And I feel for these kids. Accept and acknowledge that they have been disadvantaged, openly adjust the exams to allow for that and make it as fair as they are currently trying not to. And then hold the exams as planned on June 9th.




  • If zooms to be increased will there be some childcare facility for those who need it? Presume no mention of this?

    Childcare for who? The staff?
    No mention of it but I wouldn’t expect it to be mentioned on communication with parents.




  • Barbeapapa wrote: »
    So, for now the exam goes ahead. That's all good and well but there have been no concessions bar an extra question added to acknowledge the terribly curtailed leaving cert course these students have had. To listen to Norma et al, her goal is a leaving cert exactly like other years so why wouldn't these kids be terrified. They know the course is not finished and has no hope of being so unless you're in a cram school. And then you have the likes of History Queen saying "There are 6 months to go" when there are 4 at best (with time off for good behaviour).

    Matt Cooper suggesting the leaving cert runs into July....obviously his kids don't have to dedicate their summer's to working for university funds. Oh the privilege. Others suggesting the 6th years get their summer holidays now and do school and exams right through summer months....

    I despair. And I feel for these kids. Accept and acknowledge that they have been disadvantaged, openly adjust the exams to allow for that and make it as fair as they are currently trying not to. And then hold the exams as planned on June 9th.

    The likes of me happens to be a concerned teacher. I'm trying to reassure students not add to their stress. The exams have been adjusted, different adjustments to different subjects and I have called for further adjustment if necessary. I don'tunderstand what you mean by 4 months at best? I agree exams should be held in June and don't really understand why you have a problem with "the likes" of me.


  • Advertisement


  • jrosen wrote: »
    Childcare for who? The staff?
    No mention of it but I wouldn’t expect it to be mentioned on communication with parents.

    I wouldn't expect it to be provided at all.

    I sincerely hope they are not asking for childcare so that teachers can do zoom.

    This is part of normal working life now. Why would teachers working from home get childcare facilities provided so they can do zoom classes.

    I'd imagine everyone managing to work from home has to do similar to a degree meetings/conference calls, training etc. Do their companies provide childcare facilities to accommodate it? Highly doubt it.

    Not to mention there's still a large number of the population not working from home who just get on with it.




  • The Irish Times has just reported that the South African varient is here at Ireland.....3 cases at the moment ....Idk how schools can go back 31st January...
    They need to come up with an alternative to the LC asap..
    31 Jan might not be realistic. But, we should get the vaccine to teachers who need it. Even these more virulent strains are not going to affect students severely. So, delay the LC by a couple of months if necessary, but stick to plan A imo.




  • plodder wrote: »
    31 Jan might not be realistic. But, we should get the vaccine to teachers who need it. Even these more virulent strains are not going to affect students severely. So, delay the LC by a couple of months if necessary, but stick to plan A imo.

    i think Norma will try for 31st won't like being shown up again.




  • I reckon the Department are so gung-ho to avoid predictive grades at all costs because if they do it again, it'll be almost impossible to revert next year, and god forbid they finally have to overhaul the Leaving Cert system...




  • Well, predictive grades are not ideal. There are around 50 court cases underway over them. While, they obviously suit some people, that isn't the way to reform the LC in my opinion.


  • Advertisement


  • the more i think of LC the more i think we should put it off til first monday in july, work on in school with LC only til June 25th. i would have no problem with this. although i know people commuting long journeys it would be hardship. a month extra might see most vulnerable vaccinated




  • Dickie10 wrote: »
    the more i think of LC the more i think we should put it off til first monday in july, work on in school with LC only til June 25th. i would have no problem with this. although i know people commuting long journeys it would be hardship. a month extra might see most vulnerable vaccinated

    It's all up in the air but maybe they might consider vaccinating the LCs.

    Imagine suspecting you have covid, but chancing going to the exam hall anyway as you don't want to lose a year of your life and then taking down half the place with you.

    Vaccinate or have an alternate paper ready for August too so people don't miss a whole year if things go belly up.

    LC prob isn't happening anyway so just spitballing.




  • I don'tunderstand what you mean by 4 months at best? .

    In fairness, it definately isn't six months. Today is the 9th Jan, exams normally happen 6th june- that five months. Deduct the midterm, Easter and week before exams and that's another month of non face to face or even remote so that's kinda closer to four months that pupils have with their teachers.




  • I’d like to see the LC go ahead. I think it’s important. It’s too important to let drag out again like they did last year.
    I spoke to a teacher last year who said she left a lot of her other students with minimal work so she could focus on her LC students. I can see why she made that decision.
    I would hate for that to happen again, unfair to the teacher and unfair to the other students some of who could be JC.




  • I think the constant zoom calls is counter productive....live class, assignments, feedback (live if necessary) having a teacher live all the time means kids will probably learn less and then if my OHs experience last year anything to go by, kids and parents will be complaining they are too stressed being contacted all the time and the workload is too much etc etc:pac::pac:

    Could be different for primary level but for secondary especially as they get older a clear explanation of a topic/concept, time to get to grips through practice then maybe question and answer followed by feedback in a live session...if principals get too prescriptive it will probably be self defeating and if parents just want a teacher live all the time to entertain the kids then that won't work out too well as a significant portion of them won't be entertained by actual academic work and another portion will try every trick in the book to not have to do anything and will probably stress the hell.out of the parent that has to drag them kicking and screaming to every class period they are timetabled to be at...would be better if the were made do the work assigned imo

    Another big complaint last year was the wifi internet wasn't available at class times as the parents were using it at the same time (wfh) ....then there was the cohort of parents that couldn't give a toss about the kid learning and didn't want the stress of the school letting them know their kids weren't participating/making an effort etc in the end students and parents asked the school to ease off and give them less work!




  • Mrsmum wrote: »
    In fairness, it definately isn't six months. Today is the 9th Jan, exams normally happen 6th june- that five months. Deduct the midterm, Easter and week before exams and that's another month of non face to face or even remote so that's kinda closer to four months that pupils have with their teachers.

    True. I was thinking of June being the 6th month! Brain fart! And also I was talking months in terms of study time not just teaching but I take your point.




  • HAve ye read this?

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40203260.html

    Daniel McConnell: Students pay the price for Department of Education's floundering failures




  • plodder wrote: »
    Well, predictive grades are not ideal. There are around 50 court cases underway over them. While, they obviously suit some people, that isn't the way to reform the LC in my opinion.

    Is predictive grades go again, teachers will inflate absolutely everything. I work in a school where we were told to bring it in line with previous percentages awarded (to make sure we did it fairly, but also not to draw an audit on the school in case) only to see the school down the road balloon and us drop below in certain subjects.

    That mistake won't happen again.




  • khalessi wrote: »
    HAve ye read this?

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40203260.html

    Daniel McConnell: Students pay the price for Department of Education's floundering failures

    Yes, not a fan of McConnell but when you read all of the Department f-ups since the start of the pandemic, you have to wonder when will accountability be demanded?

    Also worries me that students and parents would trust a predicted grades system overseen by this Department again.




  • She is throwing teachers an a profession under the bus. I'd love to know what her former colleagues in Kerry think of her now?

    we dont think much of her i can assure you


  • Advertisement


  • khalessi wrote: »
    HAve ye read this?

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40203260.html

    Daniel McConnell: Students pay the price for Department of Education's floundering failures

    Great article. He was railing against the union the other night on twitter, obviously read his comments.




  • Smacruairi wrote: »
    Great article. He was railing against the union the other night on twitter, obviously read his comments.

    Yeah that’s the first time I’ve seen the examiner actually read beyond the ****e they get fed by the department of education.

    They have been a rip roaring disgrace the lot of them. And I repeat my comments of the last night for anyone who missed them.

    I know no teacher who would prefer to be teaching online. Not one. I know of no teacher who would have been unreasonable in organising the LCs to be the first back in. As soon as it is possible and safe to do so. I know of no teacher or parent or student, who would have objected if she had bothered to consult properly and just wait, even a week, until we were sure the situation was stable.

    I know of no SEN teacher or SNA or worker involved in special education who does not realise that these students need some school. However, again, this minister did not bother to discuss what might actually be workable, or address the concerns of all parties so that we could try and provide some respite to these parents and students. She just ploughed on. She wanted her moment of glory.

    It is her and the cabinet who caused this stand off

    It is THEIR fault that this has come to pass. Not parents. Not students. Not teachers. Not anyone involved in schools.




  • khalessi wrote: »
    HAve ye read this?

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40203260.html

    Daniel McConnell: Students pay the price for Department of Education's floundering failures

    He is/was looking to jump on he gravy train and become an advisor. This piece is very out of sync with much of his previous commentary.




  • khalessi wrote: »
    HAve ye read this?

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40203260.html

    Daniel McConnell: Students pay the price for Department of Education's floundering failures


    I think he's on the money here
    there is now merit in deciding as soon as possible that if the lockdown does extend beyond the end of January, then the State exams should be cancelled this year.




  • To be honest, I was wondering (and posted about it at the end of the previous thread) what the Unions had done proactively. I think the
    DES / Minister Foley have the lions share of responsibility here, but I did wonder if or why not, Unions hadn't put forward their own outlines and suggestions for how things in the schools should go. I suspected they tried but wasn't sure.
    Then, I just saw a document posted to the Alerting Parents of Outbreaks fb page, and it seems the National Principals Forum did try, and they put out a statement. Here's an incredible excerpt from that statement:

    "We have repeatedly called for engagement and collaboration with the Minister, DES and NCSE since the initial lockdown, to avoid such a situation where possible, or at the very least to devise contingency plans that would cause the least disruption and provide greater support to the pupils and families of our most vulnerable pupils. This has not been facilitated in any way, nor our experience welcomed or utilised in the formation of education policy."

    Heads. Need. To. Roll. :mad:


    Here's some more delightful reading from that document:

    "The lack of foresight, consultation and planning by the DES is an ongoing source of deep concern and disappointment to us, and despite the spin and optics of the situation, it is not the fault of the BOM's, principals, teachers or SNA's. It is the result of persistent bad planning, underfunding, under resourcing and neglect of SEN by successive governments. A shameful legacy."

    ..."Meaningful consultation with those on the ground and measured, responsible planning, real supports and action is what is needed and what we ask for."

    "We restate our desire for consultation with the Minister and DES to address the many issues maligning our primary education system with a view to affective positive change in a spirit of cooperation and proactivity."

    DAMN...:mad:




  • Stateofyou wrote: »
    To be honest, I was wondering (and posted about it at the end of the previous thread) what the Unions had done proactively. I think the
    DES / Minister Foley have the lions share of responsibility here, but I did wonder if or why not, Unions hadn't put forward their own outlines and suggestions for how things in the schools should go. I suspected they tried but wasn't sure.
    Then, I just saw a document posted to the Alerting Parents of Outbreaks fb page, and it seems the National Principals Forum did try, and they put out a statement. Here's an incredible excerpt from that statement:

    "We have repeatedly called for engagement and collaboration with the Minister, DES and NCSE since the initial lockdown, to avoid such a situation where possible, or at the very least to devise contingency plans that would cause the least disruption and provide greater support to the pupils and families of our most vulnerable pupils. This has not been facilitated in any way, nor our experience welcomed or utilised in the formation of education policy."

    Heads. Need. To. Roll. :mad:


    Here's some more delightful reading from that document:

    "The lack of foresight, consultation and planning by the DES is an ongoing source of deep concern and disappointment to us, and despite the spin and optics of the situation, it is not the fault of the BOM's, principals, teachers or SNA's. It is the result of persistent bad planning, underfunding, under resourcing and neglect of SEN by successive governments. A shameful legacy."

    ..."Meaningful consultation with those on the ground and measured, responsible planning, real supports and action is what is needed and what we ask for."

    "We restate our desire for consultation with the Minister and DES to address the many issues maligning our primary education system with a view to affective positive change in a spirit of cooperation and proactivity."

    DAMN...:mad:

    Cannot speak for the ASTI and TUI but know for a fact that the INTO and also the Principals forum submitted very detailed planning documents back at the end of June/start of July for consideration for thr reopening school phase of things. Both were roundly ignored.

    DES refuse to engage or even acknowledge the Principals forum.




  • Cannot speak for the ASTI and TUI but know for a fact that the INTO and also the Principals forum submitted very detailed planning documents back at the end of June/start of July for consideration for thr reopening school phase of things. Both were roundly ignored.

    DES refuse to engage or even acknowledge the Principals forum.

    It's insanity. The arrogance and ineptitude here is truly disgraceful. It's outrageous. I can't quite find the words to accurately convey my utter disgust and contempt for these people in government. Knowing all the ministers signed off on that cocked up plan-what the fvuck is WRONG with these people? I've never worked in education management a day in my life, but I'm 100% sure I could do a better job.

    To start they need to humble themselves and bring in those with the experience and tap into the boots on the ground. It should be all hands on deck.

    The SHEER fvcking arrogance of those overpaid ministers on taxpayer money while disadvantaging our kids and our family's. How dare they.

    I need to go calm down.




  • Cannot speak for the ASTI and TUI but know for a fact that the INTO and also the Principals forum submitted very detailed planning documents back at the end of June/start of July for consideration for thr reopening school phase of things. Both were roundly ignored.

    Not implementing them does not mean they were ignored. They can have been legitimately dismissed. Teachers, admittedly through disfunctional and militant unions, so I would not tar all teachers with the same brush, have let the country and their pupils down by not carrying out their roles as requested by the country, the department, and their employer. I consider it unfair to charge the DES and Ms Foley with fault when teachers simply refuse to carry out their jobs.




  • Not implementing them does not mean they were ignored. They can have been legitimately dismissed. Teachers, admittedly through disfunctional and militant unions, so I would not tar all teachers with the same brush, have let the country and their pupils down by not carrying out their roles as requested by the country, the department, and their employer. I consider it unfair to charge the DES and Ms Foley with fault when teachers simply refuse to carry out their jobs.

    How have I refused to carry out my job?

    Not one single teacher refused their labor.


  • Advertisement


  • I think the narrative that the politicians stuck to like a piece of wreckage in a storm has backfired very very badly. The mantra of the schools are safe , the schools will stay open in level 5, the schools will stay open no matter what. It reminds me of the days of Comical Ali. This mantra has done huge damage because it was a lie that the people believed.

    There is no point in all the stories and tears now about the special schools, the distressed children and families, the leaving certs. They were sacrificed on the altar of hospitality and having a good Christmas. It was in early December that the stark warning should have gone out that your schools will close, your construction will close, you will be back on the PUP, you will be back to online learning, the leaving cert will be in danger . The public need stark warnings and truth not platitudes. I really feel the constant flawed mantra has us where we are now.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement