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Changes in the GAA - super thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 693 ✭✭✭grbear


    -I've said this before but there needs to be a system where county boards are audited by an independent body more frequently. The issues in Galway were laid out in black and white a year ago and theres been next to no reaction to it outside the county. I'm not saying every county board is full of snakes and conmen before everyone jumps to the wrong conclusion. There were issues highlighted in the audit that weren't down to thievery or acting the maggot, simply poor practice, the way the relationship between the Tribesmen supporters group and the board was managed being number one. No suggestion of shenanigans, just not handled as well as it should be. I'm sure just about every county board could improve some aspects of how they handle money and an independent audit could help them find their weakspots. If it roots out a few bad apples as well then even better.

    -Establish a central platform to handle streaming club games and sort out the arrangement with TG4 so that counties can offer digital season tickets.

    -Give counties the funds necessary to hire commercial managers for three years. For smaller counties a commercial manager could handle the affairs of two counties. Hopefully after three years the manager will be bringing in enough additional income to cover their own wages so they would be a net benefit to each county.

    -Any proposed ground development with a capacity above 15,000 needs it's business plan to be vetted thoroughly by Central council, maybe even Congress, before it gets funding approval from the GAA. I see some proposals floating around about ground developments and I'd be shocked if some of them would be even half full twice a year, nevermind sold out. Waste of money.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Watched them all and i can say if those teams were more clinical they could have easily won.

    100 percent, alot of those games were on a knife edge


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 693 ✭✭✭grbear


    Might even go a bit lower with that capacity threshold.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Id prefer to have an AI on a level playing field and not one dominated by a county thats been pumped with money to such a level they are now pros in an amateur sport.

    That being said, I'd imagine the country would enjoy a championshp without dublin. Competitive, unpredictable, must watch sport.

    Not really, would still have 4 or so teams miles ahead of the rest.

    Taking Dublin out doesn't help 2/3rds of the counties


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,741 ✭✭✭threeball


    Totally agree
    For all their dominance Dublin have really been made to work for it in finals against Mayo and the first day against Kerry.

    I've avoided this thread since full time yesterday as it's the same old regurgitated shyte.

    So what would the outcome of those games had been if you didn't have the totally inequitable situation?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 150 ✭✭moghrasa


    Then you would have an All Dublin All Ireland semi final every year and Dublin winning every year.

    So you're agreeing that the current Dublin team have the capacity for 4 successful intercounty teams within them?

    Glad you're starting to see why a split is being proposed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,444 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Absolutely loving the argument that a couple of competitive All-Ireland Finals in the 5 years (that Dublin won anyway btw), is somehow something to be celebrated and proof that everything is grand.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,634 ✭✭✭Man Vs ManUre


    Dublin won't win forever just like the greatest Kilkenny team that played the game from 2006-2015. Up to the rest of the pack to catch up.

    Tomas O’Shea described yday how it is completely different. Even when Kerry and KK dominated in the past they were competing on an equal playing field and it was only due to a group of exceptional players coming through at the same time. This Dublin setup could field 2 or 3 exceptional teams right now, population keeps increasing and new clubs being created, gaa is centred around the capital and professional structure in place. We are now relying on big shocks in 1-off game to stop Dublin winning 10 or 15 in a row, had Donegal not surprised them they would currently be on 10 in row or something. This is not competitive sport, thank Hod hurling is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,896 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    dobman88 wrote: »
    Is there not multiple threads for all the stuff being discussed. It gets very tiresome. Can we not leave this for the 2020 championship

    People need to 'vent' I suppose :D



    Some seem more frantic about it than they would about covid19!

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭formerlyET


    Tomas O’Shea described yday how it is completely different. Even when Kerry and KK dominated in the past they were competing on an equal playing field and it was only due to a group of exceptional players coming through at the same time. This Dublin setup could field 2 or 3 exceptional teams right now, population keeps increasing and new clubs being created, gaa is centred around the capital and professional structure in place. We are now relying on big shocks in 1-off game to stop Dublin winning 10 or 15 in a row, had Donegal not surprised them they would currently be on 10 in row or something. This is not competitive sport, thank Hod hurling is.

    With the money they have and the population - it's not long before it starts happening in hurling too.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    Can’t be far off the stage teams will just give Dublin a walkover rather than a team been humiliated publicly and drawn a whole heap of costs on their county board and their fans .

    Their fans be better off spending what they’d have spent going to match on lotto tickets , they might have some chance of winning the lotto !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭crossman47


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Can’t be far off the stage teams will just give Dublin a walkover rather than a team been humiliated publicly and drawn a whole heap of costs on their county board and their fans .

    Their fans be better off spending what they’d have spent going to match on lotto tickets , they might have some chance of winning the lotto !

    I'm afraid thats how its going. I stayed with it for ten minutes after half time last night but, while Dubs are outstanding, its also extremely boring. I'm not anti Dub, I gloried in them taking down Kerry in the 70s.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Sebastian Dangerfield


    I've read plenty of times that teams were beaten in the tunnel against peak Man United teams, and I think that has come to pass with Dublin now too. Teams have an idea of what they want to do but theyre too afraid to commit to it for fear of what will happen if it doesnt work. Cavan put Galligan in the square last night at times, pretty much on his own, then didn't let it in to him. In the final replay last year Kerry did the same (unless memory fails me), when they played long ball it was often into an isolated Sean OShea, and when Tommy Walsh came in he was nowhere near the square a lot of the time.

    If Mayo win today Id be putting O'Shea in the square for the final, plenty of support (unlike 2015) and load ball into him, and have the discipline to stick with it if its not working right away. Probably naive, but they've tried everything else and it hasnt worked.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    Why were my posts removed to a different thread? I just posted figures in relation to team funding of the All Ireland Senior Football Championship which is being discussed. Dublin get at least ten times more per player than any other player in the Country, probably even more when you account for AIG sponsorship. This is not a level playing field and today's game is for 2nd place. It is totally unfair on the two teams today contesting the Semi Final that they've a financially doped Professional outfit waiting for them in the final.
    And to top it all off, yesterday Dublin played like a soccer team horsing the ball around in circles for large parts of the match to kill the game - they're not always a 'joy to watch'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,896 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Why were my posts removed to a different thread? I just posted figures in relation to team funding of the All Ireland Senior Football Championship which is being discussed. Dublin get at least ten times more per player than any other player in the Country, probably even more when you account for AIG sponsorship. This is not a level playing field and today's game is for 2nd place. It is totally unfair on the two teams today contesting the Semi Final that they've a financially doped Professional outfit waiting for them in the final.
    And to top it all off, yesterday Dublin played like a soccer team horsing the ball around in circles for large parts of the match to kill the game - they're not always a 'joy to watch'.

    Maybe it is because there are a myriad of other threads for off the field stuff, championship structures and so on? And this thread is for discussion of the matches themselves primarily not ancillary issues?

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,631 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Maybe it is because there are a myriad of other threads for off the field stuff, championship structures and so on? And this thread is for discussion of the matches themselves primarily not ancillary issues?

    It's not an ancillary issue, it's the main issue facing football.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Can’t be far off the stage teams will just give Dublin a walkover rather than a team been humiliated publicly and drawn a whole heap of costs on their county board and their fans .

    Their fans be better off spending what they’d have spent going to match on lotto tickets , they might have some chance of winning the lotto !

    Where is the logical conclusion to this?

    Waterford refuse to play Kerry?
    Wicklow refuse to play Meath?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,896 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I've read plenty of times that teams were beaten in the tunnel against peak Man United teams, and I think that has come to pass with Dublin now too. Teams have an idea of what they want to do but theyre too afraid to commit to it for fear of what will happen if it doesnt work.C avan put Galligan in the square last night at times, pretty much on his own, then didn't let it in to him. In the final replay last year Kerry did the same (unless memory fails me), when they played long ball it was often into an isolated Sean OShea, and when Tommy Walsh came in he was nowhere near the square a lot of the time.

    If Mayo win today Id be putting O'Shea in the square for the final, plenty of support (unlike 2015) and load ball into him, and have the discipline to stick with it if its not working right away. Probably naive, but they've tried everything else and it hasnt worked.

    Very good point teams end up playing against the aura of the jersey rather then the man.

    If the high ball is done right into the Dublin backline Dublin struggle imo. If support is provided. Donaghy used to give me convulsions when Kerry used him like that with support properly from other lads to feed off him.

    Another way, is on the break with pacey strong fellas.

    I remember Comer scored a great goal v Dublin for Galway from a simple long ball and when he got a run there was no stopping him. Basically catching Dublin out when they pushed up high.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 216 ✭✭KIB4Life


    I've read plenty of times that teams were beaten in the tunnel against peak Man United teams, and I think that has come to pass with Dublin now too. Teams have an idea of what they want to do but theyre too afraid to commit to it for fear of what will happen if it doesnt work. Cavan put Galligan in the square last night at times, pretty much on his own, then didn't let it in to him. In the final replay last year Kerry did the same (unless memory fails me), when they played long ball it was often into an isolated Sean OShea, and when Tommy Walsh came in he was nowhere near the square a lot of the time.

    If Mayo win today Id be putting O'Shea in the square for the final, plenty of support (unlike 2015) and load ball into him, and have the discipline to stick with it if its not working right away. Probably naive, but they've tried everything else and it hasnt worked.

    I don’t think Dublin are as bad as they are made out to be from a high ball point of view, Mayo in 16 and 17 got joy out of direct passing with a bounce on the ball into their forwards, in 17 they had Doherty around the 45m line and O’Connor and Moran inside closer to goal and they didn’t aim high direct hit and hope ball, they used a good mixture of a running game and a kick passing game, which caused Dublin a lot of problems and more problems then the Drawn game in 2015, where they kept lumping ball into O’Shea with very little success, so I think teams should try the tactic of using smart quick ball into the forwards with a bounce on it.

    Cavan probably only gave two good balls into their forwards last night the first point that they got from Martin Reilly and the time Reilly was fouled near goal by Cooper, other then that the ball they gave into their forwards for fairly poor another time Madden got a ball near the corner and turned Fitzsimmons and kicked a nice point why didn’t they do more of them type of passes into their forwards with a bounce and trying to get the ball into him, where he can take on his man.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Dublin ruined the whole ethos of the GAA by being pumped with government money, turning an amateur team pro.
    They arent near being a pro team though. The senior inter county team wasnt pumped with money and most of the money was on increasing numbers playing at schools level.
    ah very good. I dont like the facts so they must be ****e. Maybe by 2025 or even 2024 you'll come to your senses and realise the All Ireland is finished. They murdered leinster championship and All Ireland now on the same path. Sad to see a great sport sleep walk to its death
    The All ireland isnt finished and the sport isnt near that bad.
    grbear wrote: »
    -I've said this before but there needs to be a system where county boards are audited by an independent body more frequently. The issues in Galway were laid out in black and white a year ago and theres been next to no reaction to it outside the county. I'm not saying every county board is full of snakes and conmen before everyone jumps to the wrong conclusion. There were issues highlighted in the audit that weren't down to thievery or acting the maggot, simply poor practice, the way the relationship between the Tribesmen supporters group and the board was managed being number one. No suggestion of shenanigans, just not handled as well as it should be. I'm sure just about every county board could improve some aspects of how they handle money and an independent audit could help them find their weakspots. If it roots out a few bad apples as well then even better.

    -Establish a central platform to handle streaming club games and sort out the arrangement with TG4 so that counties can offer digital season tickets.

    -Give counties the funds necessary to hire commercial managers for three years. For smaller counties a commercial manager could handle the affairs of two counties. Hopefully after three years the manager will be bringing in enough additional income to cover their own wages so they would be a net benefit to each county.

    -Any proposed ground development with a capacity above 15,000 needs it's business plan to be vetted thoroughly by Central council, maybe even Congress, before it gets funding approval from the GAA. I see some proposals floating around about ground developments and I'd be shocked if some of them would be even half full twice a year, nevermind sold out. Waste of money.
    Would several of those not happen anyway in relation to stadiums.
    How inter county competitions are structured dont help with getting many stadiums filled more. And stadiums are or should be very busy on non match days if built right area/right facilities.
    formerlyET wrote: »
    With the money they have and the population - it's not long before it starts happening in hurling too.
    No it isnt.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,247 ✭✭✭✭rebel girl 15


    Why were my posts removed to a different thread? I just posted figures in relation to team funding of the All Ireland Senior Football Championship which is being discussed. Dublin get at least ten times more per player than any other player in the Country, probably even more when you account for AIG sponsorship. This is not a level playing field and today's game is for 2nd place. It is totally unfair on the two teams today contesting the Semi Final that they've a financially doped Professional outfit waiting for them in the final.
    And to top it all off, yesterday Dublin played like a soccer team horsing the ball around in circles for large parts of the match to kill the game - they're not always a 'joy to watch'.

    Discussion around Dublin financial issues go into the changes in GAA thread - which is where this post is now going into.

    The 2020 Championship thread is for the championship matches, not the same discussion AGAIN and AGAIN - changes etc go into this thread and this thread alone.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,938 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Not really. It's up to the other teams to raise their game.

    If a million people moved to my county along with all the jobs and investment that entails then I think we might be able to really become a contender.

    Crazy to think though that if one million people moved to my county we would still have substantially less of a pick than Dublin. One million is quite a big number after all.

    As for todays game, I knew Cavan had zero chance yesterday but I think Tipperary have every chance of getting the win today. They will need to perform to their best and have things go right for them of course but the possibility is there in a way that it wasn't yesterday.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,896 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    It's not an ancillary issue, it's the main issue facing football.


    OK - there are number of threads for discussing the options related to it.

    Leinster:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058134646&page=22

    Dublin Dominance:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=110956174


    Changes to the GAA:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057890333



    --
    --

    What is your opinion on the key match ups in today's game?


    Discussion around Dublin financial issues go into the changes in GAA thread - which is where this post is now going into.

    The 2020 Championship thread is for the championship matches, not the same discussion AGAIN and AGAIN - changes etc go into this thread and this thread alone.


    I think these other threads links above should be posted every day or so - when this occurs so the message is driven home.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,631 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Would that stop Kerry whooping Waterford and Meath whooping Wicklow?

    I think there is some issue with funding but the above was suggesting teams shouldn't play vs Dublin as theyll be beaten well.

    Anyways sorry off topic

    It wouldn't, but it might stop the intercounty game going the same way as the railway cup.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 693 ✭✭✭grbear


    I think Páirc Uí Chaoimh shows that there isn't enough importance placed on building appropriately sized stadiums. It hasn't been filled for a GAA match since it opened and even if we all got a Covid vaccine tomorrow it won't be filled anytime soon for a match. Cork have a €20 million debt to service now. How much lower would that figure be if they had built a 30, 35, or 40 thousand capacity stadium instead of 45,000?
    The plans for Casement, Páirc Tailteann and the likes look great but are they going to pay for themselves and deliver a return for their county boards?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,857 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    formerlyET wrote: »
    With the money they have and the population - it's not long before it starts happening in hurling too.

    Bizarre Dublin haven't won a hurling all ireland yet given all their advantages.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,896 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Crowds at Leinster championship games have been declining for years as people realise there's no point going to see 20 point hammerings.

    Only one div 1 team in Leinster most of the time, very like Munster.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,631 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    Only one div 1 team in Leinster most of the time, very like Munster.

    All counties in Munster are hurling counties bar Kerry.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,896 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    All counties in Munster are hurling counties bar Kerry.

    So? I don't get this argument. Makes no sense.


    1) Kerry have an unfair advantage as a top team in a hurling province - is that somehow ok?


    2) It is clear that Leinster barring Dublin has fallen back in standard.



    Look at teams league standings Leinster v Munster



    Leinster Teams league standings 2020

    Dublin div1

    Meath[ div 1 relegated 1 draw (13 years previous in div 2)

    Kildare div 2

    Westmeath div 2

    Laois div 2

    Offaly div 3

    Longford div 3

    Louth div 3 relegated (no points)

    Wicklow div 4 promoted won

    Wexford div 4

    Carlow
    div 4

    2020 two div 1 teams. three div 2 teams, three div 3 teams, three div 4 teams

    2021 One div 1 team, four div 2 teams, four div 3 teams, two div 4 teams

    --
    --

    Munster teams league standings 2020

    Kerry div 1 winners

    Clare div 2

    Cork div 3 promoted won

    Tipperary div 3


    Limerick div 4

    Waterford div 4

    2020 One div 1 team, one div 2 team, two div 3 teams, two div 4 teams

    2021 One div 1 team, two div 2 teams, one div 3 team, two div 4 teams


    --
    --

    Look at Meath and Kildare's record v weaker teams in Leinster in championship



    2010

    Leinster Championship

    Kildare: beaten by Louth by 7 points in the Leinster QF

    Population

    Kildare: 222,504

    Louth: 128, 884


    2012 - 2014

    Leinster Championships

    Meath and Kildare defeat each other

    Population

    Meath: 195, 444

    Kildare: 222,504

    --
    --

    2015

    Leinster Championship

    Meath lose to Westmeath

    Population

    Meath: 195,444

    Westmeath: 88,700

    --
    --

    2016

    Leinster Senior Football Championship

    Kildare

    Scraping by Wicklow in the QF's and losing v Westmeath in the SF

    Population:

    Wicklow: 142,425

    Kildare: 222,504

    Westmeath: 88,700

    (Meath 195, 444 lost to Derry in the qualifiers population 107,877. Many of whose population would not mind if the GAA would not exist)

    --
    --


    2018


    Leinster football championship



    Meath

    Shocked by Longford in the Leinster QF by 2 points

    Kildare


    Shocked by Carlow in the QF by 7 points


    Population:

    Meath: 195,444

    Longford: 40,873


    Kildare: 222,504

    Carlow: 56,932

    --
    --

    2019

    Leinster football championship


    Kildare

    Snuck by Wicklow by 1 point
    Taken to a replay by Longford winning by 11


    Population:


    Kildare: 222,504

    Wicklow: 142,425

    Longford: 40,873


    --
    --

    So by my reckoning that is at least 5 times in the last 10 Leinster Championships where either Kildare or Meath, have been shocked by inferior footballing opponents. A 50% loss rate that should not occur that often. Given Kildare's and Meath's resources v the other Leinster counties excluding Dublin.

    If you include Kildare's 2019 draw v Longford and near upset by Wicklow that is 7 times in the last 10 Leinster championships.

    In my view definite questions need to be asked, because judging by many arguments population automatically leads to success.

    And how come Meath and Kildare fell so far so fast relative to these smaller (less traditional) counties?

    --
    --

    The provincial championships are just daft, antiquated, waste of time, lopsided and unfair. We are in the 21st Century.
    Not horse and trap days when travel was an issue.

    A proper league championship system should be made with fairly equal teams playing each other home and away A,B,C,D AI championships. Top 7 in each based on NFL and a play off for 8

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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  • Subscribers Posts: 16,745 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    Do you think when Dublin split 4 ways that they will dominate? Which team? North?

    They couldn't be more dominant than they are today.

    I don’t think so myself but it’s not unlikely. Most likely way to split would be current council division, Fingal, City, DLRC and South County.

    Then a lot of older clubs would be in Dublin city, Vincent’s, Raheny, ballymun and likes of clontarf. Currently a good side. DLRC strong enough , then probably fingal and then south county.

    South county is the vast swathes of high population areas that don’t play as muc Gaa, could go either way. Just don’t fund gaa at all in those areas and let soccer take everyone, with rugby getting some pieces.

    Fingal has same issue, some growing clubs, but mostly soccer based.

    Currently would say you would have two division 1 sides and a division 2 and 3 side.

    After 5 years you either have lost the heart of gaa in dublin and all sides are gone downhill or it works ok Dublin wise and they are still winning. The first is a success in that Dublin are crippled, but so is the main driver for commercial success and new players and media coverage across the gaa. The other big cities follow Dublin generally, it’s just how it goes.

    This happened with Kerry too but the solution wasn’t to split the city sides it was to merge the smaller teams.

    I honestly don’t know what the ‘answer’ is but splitting counties doesn’t seem to be it.

    As for the idea that ‘Dublin’ ruined the ethos of the gaa by taking government money? Wtf. ‘Dublin’ haven’t done anything, the GAA prioritized Dublin in the hope of rescueing the game in the capital in the fight against soccer, rugby etc for bodies and income. To keep GAA relevant rather than fading away.


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