Changes in the GAA - super thread

EICVD

Boycotting a competition because one team is better, how defeatist of an attitude is that!

dobman88

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Why has this post been ignored by dublin posters?

Because it's pure scutter that Dublin GAA dont control. They're grants from GAA HQ. Not dublins fault. Do you expect them to say, no we're grand we dont want any money. C'mon.

ArielAtom

Big Ears wrote: »

My analogy was ludicrous.......because your criticism was ludicrous.

Cavan looked to me to be very well physically prepared. They do look a hell of a lot fitter and stronger than they have in previous years. I'm judging from the outside looking in, but to me it seems like he's done a tremendous job, and helped give them the physical capabilities to beat a team like Donegal.

However they weren't physically up to the level of Dublin. Perhaps in time they'll bridge that gap somewhat, even if they're unlikely to bridge the gap technically.
However it does have to be noted that even with the best S&C in the World (ideally started from a young age like Dublin do) players are still capped by their genetics in terms of maximum potential.

I never said ridiculous. I said poor. It craic on with the inferiority complex though.

Big Ears

C__MC wrote: »

I have to admit I enjoyed dublins 5in a row, it had alot of thrills and spills and they were lucky to survive a few times, but that's their greatness.

The worry is now they are starting to pull away from the pack at a rapid speed.
The GAA has tried them away from croker, they past that test, super eights, works in their favour.

The 3 in a row was hard won but the last two have been easy enough , bar the drawn game last September. It's up to a rookie mayo team to beat them or Tipperary who are in Division 3 for 2021.
What's the GAAs next move? Provincial championships will be around for another 20 years given the events of this year. Realistically in the next 10 years who can beat Dublin? Kerry perhaps and probably mayo, after that I'm not so sure.
Splitting Dublin? Is that realistic ? Surely given the symbolic history of Dublin GAA, it will be met with resistance.
I don't think Gaelic football will never not be popular but the GAA have created a super power in the metropolitans.

The GAA task force has recommended to turn the provincial Championships into round robins, and one of their two Championship proposals includes running the league after provincials and linking it to the Championship. This is their way of trying to increase attendances and overall revenue through tickets.
They'll hope the novelty of the format will boost attendances for a few years.

But inevitably if Dublin keep winning at a canter attendances will fall. They'll think of other ways of restructuring the Championship for a while to keep things going, however one day they'll have to cut the head off the snake.
By the time that comes, even Dublin fans won't mind.


The Railway Cup was popular once, but eventually the club finals took their place on Paddy's Day.
If something isn't done soon, All-Ireland Club finals could become the pinnacle of the Sport.
Tbf I'm sure plenty won't even be unhappy about that.

Big Ears

ArielAtom wrote: »

I never said ridiculous. I said poor. It craic on with the inferiority complex though.

And if you'd like to strawman I never said ridiculous either, nor did I imply you said my analogy was ludicrous (I called it that myself).

Regardless any chance you'd drop the semantics and actually deal with the points that are being made to you ?

ArielAtom

Big Ears wrote: »

And if you'd like to strawman I never said ridiculous either, nor did I imply you said my analogy was ludicrous (I called it that myself).

Regardless any chance you'd drop the semantics and actually deal with the points that are being made to you ?

Rather than pissing and whinging on an Internet forum come up
With a solution to your perceived problem. Get your county board to propose your idea, it really is that simple.

vapor trails

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Why has this post been ignored by dublin posters?

It's the inconvenient truth. It wouldn't have been a problem if they were able to pick off 1/2/3 between 1995 and 2011. But there was a mini famine there, and nothing fills a stadium more than the glorious pursuit. Think of Munster pre their European cup Rugby win, or Mayo supporters now - their supporters aren't amazing - they are just starved and have come agonizingly close so many times. It's the perfect environment for supporters. So...Dublin in this instance through the financial recession, Just when Croke Park coffers were at their thinnest (2007-2011) the Dubs were stuffing Croke park and their supporters were desperate to end the famine. The GAA thought to themselves, these Dubs, they'll carry us through the recession. Let's feed the beast. They put into place a process that is will takes ages to reverse. They had scales in front them and just when the dublin side was going low they over stacked the beam with a load of weight. Without the funding Con O'Callghan exists - he's just playing rugby or going to the GYM, Ciaran Kilkenny is still in Australia, as is Fenton who is having Aussie commentators scream as he plucks balls from the skies. If I was a Dublin supporter I'd actually be angry with the GAA because It would have been highly unusual for Dublin to not win at least 3/4 in this time period. It would have been expected given the low count between 1983 - 2011. 1 win in 28 goes for 1m people. It's only rebalancing the expected yield for a county of its size. However, it will have the legacy of financial doping. It's not a case of opinions. It's just fact.

The_Honeybadger

EICVD wrote: »

Boycotting a competition because one team is better, how defeatist of an attitude is that!

I can see some Leinster teams either boycotting or asking to play in a different province soon. I’m not saying it is right or wrong, just that that will be the next issue the GAA will have.

Downlinz

C__MC wrote: »

I have to admit I enjoyed dublins 5in a row, it had alot of thrills and spills and they were lucky to survive a few times, but that's their greatness.

The worry is now they are starting to pull away from the pack at a rapid speed.
The GAA has tried them away from croker, they past that test, super eights, works in their favour.

The 3 in a row was hard won but the last two have been easy enough , bar the drawn game last September. It's up to a rookie mayo team to beat them or Tipperary who are in Division 3 for 2021.
What's the GAAs next move? Provincial championships will be around for another 20 years given the events of this year. Realistically in the next 10 years who can beat Dublin? Kerry perhaps and probably mayo, after that I'm not so sure.
Splitting Dublin? Is that realistic ? Surely given the symbolic history of Dublin GAA, it will be met with resistance.
I don't think Gaelic football will never not be popular but the GAA have created a super power in the metropolitans.

The idea of splitting Dublin should never be controversial, it should be common sense and is the precedent set in virtually every other sport around the world. London don't compete as a single team in the Premier League and have 6 currently, California have 3 teams competing in American football and 4 in the NBA. It would be absurd if this wasn't the case given relative resources.

Ireland seems to be the only country still grappling with the idea that competition is what makes a sport great and engaging, not sticking with the same historical structure for hundreds of years regardless of fundamental change in the country. We have a similar problem with the provincial model in Rugby.


The split of Dublin will come, it's a question of when and how quickly the GAA move since the championship isn't viable in its current form. I just hope they do it before everyone has completely lost interest.

Big Ears

ArielAtom wrote: »

Rather than pissing and whinging on an Internet forum come up
With a solution to your perceived problem. Get your county board to propose your idea, it really is that simple.

I don't live in the County I'm from and I'm mainly concerned with coaching and improving the club of where I live rather than the County.

I'm originally from Tipperary, btw...... we're not doing too bad this year for a hurling County.
Not doing too bad generally in hurling either.


Anyway, back to my earlier question. Have you had any interaction with GDA/GPO's etc in your volunteering within the game.?

ArielAtom

Downlinz wrote: »

The idea of splitting Dublin should never be controversial, it should be common sense and is the precedent set in virtually every other sport around the world. London don't compete as a single team in the Premier League and have 6 currently, California have 3 teams competing in American football and 4 in the NBA. It would be absurd if this wasn't the case given relative resources.

Ireland seems to be the only country still grappling with the idea that competition is what makes a sport great and engaging, not sticking with the same historical structure for hundreds of years regardless of fundamental change in the country. We have a similar problem with the provincial model in Rugby.


The split of Dublin will come, it's a question of when and how quickly the GAA move since the championship isn't viable in its current form. I just hope they do it before everyone has completely lost interest.

Your examples are all of professional sport. On comparable.

vapor trails

Downlinz wrote: »

The idea of splitting Dublin should never be controversial, it should be common sense and is the precedent set in virtually every other sport around the world. London don't compete as a single team in the Premier League and have 6 currently, California have 3 teams competing in American football and 4 in the NBA. It would be absurd if this wasn't the case given relative resources.

Ireland seems to be the only country still grappling with the idea that competition is what makes a sport great and engaging, not sticking with the same historical structure for hundreds of years regardless of fundamental change in the country. We have a similar problem with the provincial model in Rugby.


The split of Dublin will come, it's a question of when and how quickly the GAA move since the championship isn't viable in its current form. I just hope they do it before everyone has completely lost interest.

But when does the splitting end? Do you split Meath 5 times until it equals the population of Leitrim. Do you split Kildare twice till its the same size as Clare. Amateur sport has a good chance of working. But the resources available to every team have to be literally euro for euro the exact. When AIG sponsors Dublin for €1m per annum that's /32 and split. Dublin and the GAA have to get comfortable with it ceding ground to other sports in the capital.

beggars_bush

ArielAtom wrote: »

Rather than pissing and whinging on an Internet forum come up
With a solution to your perceived problem. Get your county board to propose your idea, it really is that simple.

Will the Dubs give back all the money the rest of the gaa provide to them?

doc_17

ShamoBuc wrote: »

That will have little or no effect I think.

They can beat any team in any pitch in Ireland. The 'novelty' of playing away games might actually spur them on, rather than the same routine for every game.

The money and number of coaches needs to be somehow addressed.

Yes they can, but whether they do is a different matter. Haven’t beaten Donegal in the league away in ages. Yet they beat them routinely in their home ground.

Coillte_Bhoy

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

I can see some Leinster teams either boycotting or asking to play in a different province soon. I’m not saying it is right or wrong, just that that will be the next issue the GAA will have.

Rubbish as its a complete non runner

munster87

CruelSummer wrote: »

Amount given to each county based on number or registered players (2007-2018)
Dublin €270.70 per player
Mayo €22.30
Tyrone €21
Kerry €19

2019 Coaching Grants from Croke Park for this year's All-Ireland semi-finalists
Dublin €1,337,620 = €652.82 each for 2,049 registered youth teams (RYT)
Cavan £183,006 = €646.65 each for 283 RYTs
Mayo €168,219 =£320.41 each for 525 RYTs
Tipperary €226,800 =€214,97 each for 1,005 RYTs

GAA funding between 2007 and 2019. Dublin received over 35% of the €54.6m allocated to counties
1 Dublin €19.2m
2 Cork €2.4m
3 Tyrone €828,716

GAA spending on coaching for the provinces
Leinster €16m
Ulster €12.9m
Munster €11.8m
Connacht €8.3m

Staggering numbers.

Coillte_Bhoy

vapor trails wrote: »

But when does the splitting end? Do you split Meath 5 times until it equals the population of Leitrim. Do you split Kildare twice till its the same size as Clare. Amateur sport has a good chance of working. But the resources available to every team have to be literally euro for euro the exact. When AIG sponsors Dublin for €1m per annum that's /32 and split. Dublin and the GAA have to get comfortable with it ceding ground to other sports in the capital.

Are you suggesting that sponsorships should be centrally negotiated? Thats something i would wholeheartedly support and have been banging on about for a while

ShamoBuc

doc_17 wrote: »

Yes they can, but whether they do is a different matter. Haven’t beaten Donegal in the league away in ages. Yet they beat them routinely in their home ground.

True, but championship is a different animal altogether, I wouldn't compare them.

They just beat the team that beat Donegal by 15 points.

Making Dublin play away from home in Leinster would have zero impact on the result at the moment, unfortunately.
A semi final in Ballybofey or wherever would be great but would it change the result?

The_Honeybadger

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Rubbish as its a complete non runner

Who are you to say anything is a non runner?
The other Leinster counties are getting completely disillusioned and will start to push back soon, mark my words.

Galway play in Leinster in the hurling so there is a precedent of sorts. You don’t think any sort of reshuffling of the provinces in football is possible under any circumstances?

Coillte_Bhoy

ShamoBuc wrote: »

True, but championship is a different animal altogether, I wouldn't compare them.

They just beat the team that beat Donegal by 15 points.

Making Dublin play away from home in Leinster would have zero impact on the result at the moment, unfortunately.
A semi final in Ballybofey or wherever would be great but would it change the result?

Perhaps not but quite simply it would be fairer. Now as a Mayo fan id rather play them in CP than Castlebar any day but thats just us:)

vapor trails

munster87 wrote: »

Staggering numbers.

I wonder when you pour in their AIG money too, it must be like Dublin €500 V Leitrim .90c.

You can't understate how things have changed for sports clubs to harness commercial incomes online since about 2005. Back in 1990, it was gala dinners £40 per head in a room with 20 tables. The bush hotel in Leitrim wouldn't be a mile behind the Gresham in capacity stakes. But in this modern age, there is no comparison. A 4 ball in Ballinamore Golf Club as top prize in a £10 raffle, as opposed to AIG being told tell be on 50,000 sold jerseys, is not a fair comparison.

bennyl10

EICVD wrote: »

Boycotting a competition because one team is better, how defeatist of an attitude is that!

That’s not what anyone is saying and is an incredibly head in the sand approach to genuine points being made about the mess the GAA have made

ShamoBuc

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Perhaps not but quite simply it would be fairer. Now as a Mayo fan id rather play them in CP than Castlebar any day but thats just us:)

It would be fairer, no doubt. But as you mention, counties want to play in Croke Park.

Coillte_Bhoy

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Who are you to say anything is a non runner?
The other Leinster counties are getting completely disillusioned and will start to push back soon, mark my words.

Galway play in Leinster in the hurling so there is a precedent of sorts. You don’t think any sort of reshuffling of the provinces in football is possible under any circumstances?

Ah ffs Galway play in Leinster cos there is no senior hurling in Connacht, come on thats a daft argument in fairness, they should have been in there years ago.

Personally i want to see the prov cshsips abolished but even before that there is no way leinster counties will be allowed leave, think about it, it wouldnt be allowed

ArielAtom

Big Ears wrote: »

I don't live in the County I'm from and I'm mainly concerned with coaching and improving the club of where I live rather than the County.

I'm originally from Tipperary, btw...... we're not doing too bad this year for a hurling County.
Not doing too bad generally in hurling either.


Anyway, back to my earlier question. Have you had any interaction with GDA/GPO's etc in your volunteering within the game.?[/QUOT


I have extensively l. I have posted extensively on other forums related to this. So yes I have.

Have you?

Coillte_Bhoy

ShamoBuc wrote: »

It would be fairer, no doubt. But as you mention, counties want to play in Croke Park.

Given our horrendous record in McHale Park, we do anyway:)

Man Vs ManUre

This year especially there is no fair reason to keep croke park as the venue for the semis and final. No other big sport gives home advantage the way the gaa does. US sports have home/away best of however many, Super Bowl venue is decided in advance, same with World Cup and Euros, rugby World Cup, olympics, 6 nations rotates, tennis/f1 is spread around the world. But the Dubs have this birthright and unfair advantage at start of every season.

The_Honeybadger

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Ah ffs Galway play in Leinster cos there is no senior hurling in Connacht, come on thats a daft argument in fairness, they should have been in there years ago.

Personally i want to see the prov cshsips abolished but even before that there is no way leinster counties will be allowed leave, think about it, it wouldnt be allowed

I never said it would be allowed or facilitated, just that I can see a situation where it will come up. Leinster championship is dead as a competition and the counties outside Dublin are sick of it, the signs are well and truly there and a push back is coming. There is virtually no chance of anybody bar Dublin winning that competition for the foreseeable future, none. It is a competition in name only.

Weepsie

C__MC wrote: »

I have to admit I enjoyed dublins 5in a row, it had alot of thrills and spills and they were lucky to survive a few times, but that's their greatness.

The worry is now they are starting to pull away from the pack at a rapid speed.
The GAA has tried them away from croker, they past that test, super eights, works in their favour.

The 3 in a row was hard won but the last two have been easy enough , bar the drawn game last September. It's up to a rookie mayo team to beat them or Tipperary who are in Division 3 for 2021.
What's the GAAs next move? Provincial championships will be around for another 20 years given the events of this year. Realistically in the next 10 years who can beat Dublin? Kerry perhaps and probably mayo, after that I'm not so sure.
Splitting Dublin? Is that realistic ? Surely given the symbolic history of Dublin GAA, it will be met with resistance.
I don't think Gaelic football will never not be popular but the GAA have created a super power in the metropolitans.

You split Dublin and you may just get a Dublin v Dublin final

ArielAtom

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

This year especially there is no fair reason to keep croke park as the venue for the semis and final. No other big sport gives home advantage the way the gaa does. US sports have home/away best of however many, Super Bowl venue is decided in advance, same with World Cup and Euros, rugby World Cup, olympics, 6 nations rotates, tennis/f1 is spread around the world. But the Dubs have this birthright and unfair advantage at start of every season.

But does the lack of support not mitigate this?