Changes in the GAA - super thread

rebel girl 15

The moderators and many other posters are getting tired with silly bickering breaking out on many threads and it taking those threads so far off topic.

So if you want to discuss county funding or how the GAA should change, moan about the fact that your county gets a hard time in the draw, that the GAA fixtures are clashing with any sporting event etc etc etc, it goes here. If is a moan or complaint, it goes here.

Anyone taking other threads off topic, or taking points of view from this into other threads and cross thread posting will be carded and/or banned. Anybody soapboxing in other threads will be banned and a limited amount allowed on here

Bonniedog

What are we supposed to do in work then?

DONTMATTER

If legitimate concerns about the future of the GAA doesn't merit discussion on this GAA forum then what is the point of it? There's none is there? But I suppose we'll treat it as a bit of craic. I'll kick this supermoan thread off soon with everyone's favorite topic. Stay tuned.

DONTMATTER

Questions about the funding Dublin GAA has received and what should happen Now

1. Why give Dublin nearly 50% of the funding for the past 13 years? They don't have 50% of the population and the rest of the counties got a fairly even portion of the money.

2. Why was Dublin chosen for special treatment above all other counties? Wouldn't the 6 counties have been more deserving if we were going down the special circumstances route?

3. What explanation is there for the huge increase in titles at the same time as the huge increase in funding? 53 titles in the past 13 years post funding and 53 titles in the 39 years pre funding.

4. Should the money be stopped? Should Dublin GAA continue to be bankrolled while other counties in hurling and football struggle?

5. Would splitting Dublin into 4 make it easier for each region to streamline resources and target participation levels locally? If not why not?

6. Dublin will have nearly 2 million people in 2030. Other counties will have less than 200,000 people with some having less than 100,000. How is this sustainable?

7. If no split occurs, what do you envisage happening? Everything staying the same? An elite group of teams breaking away? The game going professional?

8. Would you be in favour of an elite group forming? The game going professional? How would it work?

I think that's a good list of questions for now. Obviously these questions are not just for Dublin supporters, this is all of our decision.

Bonniedog

If Dublin has 2,000,000 people in 2030, and the country 6,000,000, the structure of the championship will be the least of your worries.

You will be on Ryanair flight if you have any sense!

DONTMATTER

Bonniedog wrote: »

If Dublin has 2,000,000 people in 2030, and the country 6,000,000, the structure of the championship will be the least of your worries.

You will be on Ryanair flight if you have any sense!

There's loads of other questions there that you missed.

We already have a population of nearly 7 million. Around 6.6 million and Dublin will have about 1.6 million in 2030, I apologise but having nearly 2 million will come soon after. I don't really get your point.

Bonniedog

Typo, meant 8,000,000 altogether but 2,000,000 in Dublin be accurate. You should read Project 2040 and see where the projected increase is largely to come from.

What I mean is that this country will have changed beyond recognition within next quarter of a century. And not for the better if we look at our neighbours across the sea, France, Italy and other European countries. Will there even be a GAA in 2050?

DONTMATTER

Yeah, sure someone could set off a nuclear bomb tomorrow. That'll split Dublin then.

curry-muff

I don't post on here overly often but this thread is pathetic tbh. You have just censored down some of the biggest talking points of Gaelic Games.

Welcome to China.

Bonniedog

Most often disagree with you DM, but would never support anyone not being allowed have their opinion. Lots of people have posts removed and are sometimes suspended.

DONTMATTER

I'm going to link an article that's just full on moaning, it definitely belongs in this thread for moaners and it in no way reflects genuine concerns about Gaelic football. It's just a moanfest that shouldn't be discussed properly on this GAA forum.


https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/this-is-not-what-i-signed-up-for--neil-ewings-anger-disdain-and-hope-855152.html

FrancieBrady

Yesterday was a bad start for the Super8's which immediately showed up a few issues one of which was how Dublin approached the closing quarter. They basically killed the game much to the disappointment of Donegal fans and a goodly share of their own I would imagine.

If they are gonna use this tactic to conserve themselves for the next game then they might as well knock Super8's on the head imo.
They are using the superior strength, fitness and conditioning, squad depth etc only they can seem to invest in to their advantage.

Nothing you can say is intrinsically wrong/against the rules with that but it will frustrate the life out of this new experiment. Not at all sure what can be done about it but pretending this is not becoming an issue is wrong too.

Is the access to larger resources showing as an unfair advantage again?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yesterday was a bad start for the Super8's which immediately showed up a few issues one of which was how Dublin approached the closing quarter. They basically killed the game much to the disappointment of Donegal fans and a goodly share of their own I would imagine.

If they are gonna use this tactic to conserve themselves for the next game then they might as well knock Super8's on the head imo.
They are using the superior strength, fitness and conditioning, squad depth etc only they can seem to invest in to their advantage.

Nothing you can say is intrinsically wrong/against the rules with that but it will frustrate the life out of this new experiment. Not at all sure what can be done about it but pretending this is not becoming an issue is wrong too.

Is the access to larger resources showing as an unfair advantage again?

It is completely wrong to blame Dublin for the last 15 minutes of the game yesterday.

Anyone who was in Croke Park yesterday saw that Donegal just gave up and retreated behind the ball to keep the score down. If you want to criticise a team, you should criticise them for their cowardly approach.

Dublin are winners, they have adapted to every challenge put to them so far.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

It is completely wrong to blame Dublin for the last 15 minutes of the game yesterday.

Anyone who was in Croke Park yesterday saw that Donegal just gave up and retreated behind the ball to keep the score down. If you want to criticise a team, you should criticise them for their cowardly approach.

Dublin are winners, they have adapted to every challenge put to them so far.

I seen them turn back too often for that contention. It was part of the game plan.

Bonniedog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I seen them turn back too often for that contention. It was part of the game plan.

The game plan to win!

How dare they

Perhaps we should revert to having entire team in our own half even when 5 points down, or more traditionally launching mighty boots of the ball into the air not giving a fk once some fine chap from the Kingdom jumps 18 feet into the sky and everyone stands back to admire him.

Ah no....

FrancieBrady

Bonniedog wrote: »

The game plan to win!

How dare they

Perhaps we should revert to having entire team in our own half even when 5 points down, or more traditionally launching mighty boots of the ball into the air not giving a fk once some fine chap from the Kingdom jumps 18 feet into the sky and everyone stands back to admire him.

Ah no....

Why so cross?


None of us want to see GAA go that way do we?

I don't know what the solution is but I have a fair idea why it is happening. They used their superior fitness and conditioning, and they have that superior fitness and conditioning because they have the resources and therefore the time to invest in it.

That is not the same for all others.

Vince135792003

Give 2 points for any score (excluding frees and 45s) for any score outside the 45. Players need an incentive to take more long distance shots.

Bonniedog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why so cross?


None of us want to see GAA go that way do we?

I don't know what the solution is but I have a fair idea why it is happening. They used their superior fitness and conditioning, and they have that superior fitness and conditioning because they have the resources and therefore the time to invest in it.

That is not the same for all others.

I'm not cross. I am happy

Dublin are better team because they have better players and a better management. They all have the same other demands on them as other counties.

Do you think Monaghan is example of open exciting football!

FrancieBrady

Bonniedog wrote: »

I'm not cross. I am happy

Dublin are better team because they have better players and a better management. They all have the same other demands on them as other counties.

Do you think Monaghan is example of open exciting football! More hand passes than a gay sauna

It's a level playing field only if you are prepared to ignore the very large elephant right in the middle of it. May be that was what was stopping Dublin getting past half way?

To be serious, I am not bothered getting into a debate with somebody who will not acknowledge a severe imbalance in population, money and resources tbh.
It's as plain as that bloody elephant sitting on your nose at this stage.

Bonniedog

So how come Tyrone with a smaller GAA playing population has been successful and you have not? And that is an understatement! Or even historically, compared to your other neighbour in Cavan, or near neighbour Meath?

Perhaps you are never just good enough?

FrancieBrady

Bonniedog wrote: »

So how come Tyrone with a smaller GAA playing population has been successful and you have not? And that is an understatement! Or even historically, compared to your other neighbour in Cavan, or near neighbour Meath?

Perhaps you are never just good enough?

Soon as you stop seeing it as a threat to your precious Dublin team and rather as a cancer that is in the process of causing a very real crisis in a game I love (whether we win it or not) come back to us with something more substantial than taunting?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why so cross?


None of us want to see GAA go that way do we?

I don't know what the solution is but I have a fair idea why it is happening. They used their superior fitness and conditioning, and they have that superior fitness and conditioning because they have the resources and therefore the time to invest in it.

That is not the same for all others.

What a load of crap.

Dublin were five points to the good, thanks to some brilliant high fielding of Donegal kickouts and some excellent kicked points and goals. Having played all of the football in the game, and that is not an exaggeration, they could afford to sit back and wait and see whether Donegal had the balls to come out of their shells. They didn't, so Dublin just played out the game.

It will be interesting to see whether Monaghan or Tyrone will take on Dublin. They might never have been good enough, but Mayo at least had the courage to take Dublin on. Most of the others don't and that has nothing to do with strength and conditioning or finances.

Bonniedog

You initiated this. I responded.

Youse don't love it enough to have been successful. We do. Live with it.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

What a load of crap.

Dublin were five points to the good, thanks to some brilliant high fielding of Donegal kickouts and some excellent kicked points and goals. Having played all of the football in the game, and that is not an exaggeration, they could afford to sit back and wait and see whether Donegal had the balls to come out of their shells. They didn't, so Dublin just played out the game.

It will be interesting to see whether Monaghan or Tyrone will take on Dublin. They might never have been good enough, but Mayo at least had the courage to take Dublin on. Most of the others don't and that has nothing to do with strength and conditioning or finances.

IMO you have to be a lot fitter to engage that 'style' of play over 10 to 15 mins.
Dublin were constantly turning and going back, they had no interest in going forward, hence my contention it was a game plan.

There is a reason the crowd, including a lot of their own decent support boo that type of play. It is lording superior fitness over a team you can see are out on their feet.

To me it is just another symptom of the developing imbalance in GAA which is cancerous. Read the article posted above.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

IMO you have to be a lot fitter to engage that 'style' of play over 10 to 15 mins.
Dublin were constantly turning and going back, they had no interest in going forward, hence my contention it was a game plan.

There is a reason the crowd, including a lot of their own decent support boo that type of play. It is lording superior fitness over a team you can see are out on their feet.

To me it is just another symptom of the developing imbalance in GAA which is cancerous. Read the article posted above.

Didn't hear a single Dub booing, that was the Donegal contingent. The Dublin crowd were 'ole'ing every pass.

If Donegal don't want to tackle, why should Dublin just give them the ball. I was most annoyed at James McCarthy who kicked two wides during that period and gave the ball back to Donegal. Dublin know what to do when other teams refuse to play.

Dublin are one of the greatest teams to have played the game, led by one of the greatest managers. The high fielding by Howard and Fenton yesterday was up there with the best of the lot. The finishing of the goals by Scully, the tackling in defence, among the best.

Put aside your blinkers and realise that. I feel sorry for the Mayos and Monaghans of this decade. They had their greatest teams, but it hasn't been enough when faced with the GOAT.

ConnyMcDavid

Think they should introduce half points in hurling. Only in the case where a goalkeeper makes a great save and the ball deflects over for a point. Goalies seem to have a thankless task and when they produce a moment of magic it can still lead to a point for the opponent.

FrancieBrady

I honestly don't think this conversation can be had if you just want to brag about Dublin.

I actually love the game, and managed to continue loving the game while my team have never had success.

I am not really interested in debating that so maybe you can stop bothering yourself coming up with taunts.

There is a major problem that has been ongoing in the modern game which year on year is getting worse. Many many people have addressed it now, it is beyond silly that some Dubs are still seeing it as an attack on their team for being successful. It isn't.

Bonniedog

Francie, have you ever watched Monaghan? Exciting, attacking football is not the phrase that immediately springs to mind.

Here's the thing. Certain counties thought they could stop better teams by total negative tactics. I'm not referring to Tyrone of noughties by the way. They were brilliant team. I'm talking about teams that almost seemed they were playing for a draw!

Well, Dublin responded to that by not only having better players but by nullifying the blanket defence by pressing up on them, taking a lead and forcing them out. Sometimes those teams don't come out, even when they are well behind! Go figure.

Best games of last few years have been Dublin and Mayo because both teams combine good offence and good defence. Time has possibly caught up with Mayo, as it will with Dublin. Then you shall have to find another excuse.

dollar bill

2019 congress will be open to playing rule changes,After the successful introduction of the mark and the new kickout rule,What would you like to see next implemented

FrancieBrady

dollar bill wrote: »

2019 congress will be open to playing rule changes,After the successful introduction of the mark and the new kickout rule,What would you like to see next implemented

I'd like to see the black card looked at and I would love to see a few hundred thousand invested in group training a squad of championship referees in order to bring some consistency to the game.

I would also like a special congress to discuss and analyse why it increasingly seems that Central Council is massively diverging from the GAA grassroots and support base.
To me there is a divergence as one part seeks maximum profit while the other seeks a player and supporter centred sporting and cultural organisation.

The Lost Sheep

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'd like to see the black card looked at and I would love to see a few hundred thousand invested in group training a squad of championship referees in order to bring some consistency to the game.

I would also like a special congress to discuss and analyse why it increasingly seems that Central Council is massively diverging from the GAA grassroots and support base.
To me there is a divergence as one part seeks maximum profit while the other seeks a player and supporter centred sporting and cultural organisation.

That would be a waste of money. Who do you get to train these referees. How many referees do you train and that wouldnt help the game. You would be far better investing that money into refs at all levels and improving all refereeing and doing more to help refereeing at lower levels as then the refs will have better habits and experiences to help them as they progress to higher levels.

blanch152

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

That would be a waste of money. Who do you get to train these referees. How many referees do you train and that wouldnt help the game. You would be far better investing that money into refs at all levels and improving all refereeing and doing more to help refereeing at lower levels as then the refs will have better habits and experiences to help them as they progress to higher levels.

Exactly, people focus on the senior inter-county game and forget about all of the club games as senior, intermediate and junior level etc. They all need good referees as well.

FrancieBrady

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

That would be a waste of money. Who do you get to train these referees. How many referees do you train and that wouldnt help the game. You would be far better investing that money into refs at all levels and improving all refereeing and doing more to help refereeing at lower levels as then the refs will have better habits and experiences to help them as they progress to higher levels.

I agree, consistency is required throughout.
But I do think if you are going to push players towards the boundaries (if not over in some notable cases) of professionalism, then you have to up the standard and consistency of refereeing.

The Lost Sheep

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I agree, consistency is required throughout.
But I do think if you are going to push players towards the boundaries (if not over in some notable cases) of professionalism, then you have to up the standard and consistency of refereeing.

The standard of referee's isnt really the issue. Its how they are treated at all levels and the rule book which are far more of a concern IMO. I would look to change them to help improve things first

FrancieBrady

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The standard of referee's isnt really the issue. Its how they are treated at all levels and the rule book which are far more of a concern IMO. I would look to change them to help improve things first

No point having rules if they are implemented differently in Omagh to how they are implemented in Croke Park.

The Lost Sheep

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No point having rules if they are implemented differently in Omagh to how they are implemented in Croke Park.

is there? Look at other sports. plenty of laws in rugby are treated differently at pro level compared to amatuer.

FrancieBrady

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

is there? Look at other sports. plenty of laws in rugby are treated differently at pro level compared to amatuer.

and?

I think it is a bad enough problem at inter county level to have some money spent on it.

Not really interested in a 'look over there, everything is alright jack' type of debate tbh.

The Lost Sheep

FrancieBrady wrote: »

and?

I think it is a bad enough problem at inter county level to have some money spent on it.

Not really interested in a 'look over there, everything is alright jack' type of debate tbh.

Who is saying everythings alright?

FrancieBrady

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Who is saying everythings alright?

I voice a problem I see (not alone in seeing either) and you tell me to look over there at other sports and rugby in support of your earlier point that spending some money attempting to harmonise referring decisions would be 'a waste of money'.

dollar bill

Good idea about referee's maybe a full court press on the issue where all refs at all levels are improved,Remember Inter County Refs are Club refs also..A proper respect campaign and maybe a dual approach with the GPA to encourage ex-players to take up the whistle

robbiezero

I'd like to see something like VAR brought in for goals/penalties and sending offs.
While Hawk-Eye has been a success, dodgy goals and sending offs have much more impact on the course of a game
e.g. Waterford v Tipp this year.
Aylwards goal v Galway
and I am sure there are plenty of others.

The Lost Sheep

dollar bill wrote: »

Good idea about referee's maybe a full court press on the issue where all refs at all levels are improved,Remember Inter County Refs are Club refs also..A proper respect campaign and maybe a dual approach with the GPA to encourage ex-players to take up the whistle

Getting ex players would be good but isnt be all end all some see it as.
After referees do the initial course to become a referee what other training do they get?
In rugby referees have monthly meetings to discuss laws/issues in the game that will have arisen. Looking at video clips of incidentas
What would you see as a proper respect campaign?

robbiezero wrote: »

I'd like to see something like VAR brought in for goals/penalties and sending offs.
While Hawk-Eye has been a success, dodgy goals and sending offs have much more impact on the course of a game
e.g. Waterford v Tipp this year.
Aylwards goal v Galway
and I am sure there are plenty of others.

I dont see VAR being needed. Fixing/changing the rule book would be far more beneficial in relation to number of reds than any video ref

dollar bill

I think football is at a cross roads..Hurling is so popular because the speed the ball can travel up and down the field,Can any rule be brought in to speed up football?

Only allowed 4 passes until you are in opposition 45? Backcourt rule?

DONTMATTER

Let's make a football that can be kicked 80 yards down the field.

Prop Joe

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Getting ex players would be good but isnt be all end all some see it as.

What would you see as a proper respect campaign?

Ex Players i think would help the respect issue as they would be respected more as individuals

I would also like the following implemented

1.Referee's to issue cards for abuse of officials and be very strict on it

2.Clubs to be fined for any player or management who are booked/Sent off for abusing officials

3.Sunday Game could also have a referee to explain decisions

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

After referees do the initial course to become a referee what other training do they get?
In rugby referees have monthly meetings to discuss laws/issues in the game that will have arisen. Looking at video clips of incidentas

To my knowledge all ref's on the intercounty panel for championship have regular meetings to review performance

rebel girl 15

Prop Joe wrote: »

Ex Players i think would help the respect issue as they would be respected more as individuals

I would also like the following implemented

1.Referee's to issue cards for abuse of officials and be very strict on it

2.Clubs to be fined for any player or management who are booked/Sent off for abusing officials

3.Sunday Game could also have a referee to explain decisions

I really like that one - I know one of the rugby shows on BT does it and has a referee in to explain things. Would help a lot of the misunderstanding by people in the stands as well as for players.

Interesting line from an article written by Brian Galvin regarding umpires

"Umpires haven’t been brought in by Croke Park for coaching or advice and that is a mystery when it’s been a tough summer for them, especially in hurling"

Waterford-Tipp game on the 8th of July - umpire waved the ball as a point, Hawkeye over-ruled, with many comment's being made about umpires who are friends or acquaintances of the referee. In this case it was actually a referee who made the incorrect decision.

I do think the GAA need to provide specific training - I've umpired quite a few games, including some county finals, and while it is easier to see a football, a sliotar is harder to see, especially when there is little room behind the goalposts to be able to position yourself to be able to see it.

The Lost Sheep

Prop Joe wrote: »

Ex Players i think would help the respect issue as they would be respected more as individuals

I would also like the following implemented

1.Referee's to issue cards for abuse of officials and be very strict on it

2.Clubs to be fined for any player or management who are booked/Sent off for abusing officials

3.Sunday Game could also have a referee to explain decisions

I dont think ex players would help the respect issue. They hmay have been respected when they played but that goes out window with many who do ref.
I think any ref abuse needs to be sanctioned but you need to adapt the rule book to really help referees. Many rules should be changed/got rid of to really improve the game.
Sunday Game doesnt really need a ref on to explain decisions. Only on the days when there was game changing/altering decisions made.

To my knowledge all ref's on the intercounty panel for championship have regular meetings to review performance

It needs to be all refs at all levels meeting monthly(or more regularly) to discuss rules and incidents that occured in their games and review video clips on issues that they need to work on.

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

I really like that one - I know one of the rugby shows on BT does it and has a referee in to explain things. Would help a lot of the misunderstanding by people in the stands as well as for players.

Interesting line from an article written by Brian Galvin regarding umpires

"Umpires haven’t been brought in by Croke Park for coaching or advice and that is a mystery when it’s been a tough summer for them, especially in hurling"

Waterford-Tipp game on the 8th of July - umpire waved the ball as a point, Hawkeye over-ruled, with many comment's being made about umpires who are friends or acquaintances of the referee. In this case it was actually a referee who made the incorrect decision.

I do think the GAA need to provide specific training - I've umpired quite a few games, including some county finals, and while it is easier to see a football, a sliotar is harder to see, especially when there is little room behind the goalposts to be able to position yourself to be able to see it.

Yeah Rugby Tonight has a referee explaining the odd decision but the pundits in rugby are far better/rational at discussing referees first.
I would concentrate on whatever training all officials get. It needs to start at the lowest levels to improve referees in the long term not look for improvements straight away. There is ref recruitment officers and administers in each county but surely there needs to be development officers who are former/current top level refs and can teach refs about game management, rules of game etc.

FrancieBrady

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I dont think ex players would help the respect issue. They hmay have been respected when they played but that goes out window with many who do ref.
I think any ref abuse needs to be sanctioned but you need to adapt the rule book to really help referees. Many rules should be changed/got rid of to really improve the game.
Sunday Game doesnt really need a ref on to explain decisions. Only on the days when there was game changing/altering decisions made.

It needs to be all refs at all levels meeting monthly(or more regularly) to discuss rules and incidents that occured in their games and review video clips on issues that they need to work on.

Yeah Rugby Tonight has a referee explaining the odd decision but the pundits in rugby are far better/rational at discussing referees first.
I would concentrate on whatever training all officials get. It needs to start at the lowest levels to improve referees in the long term not look for improvements straight away. There is ref recruitment officers and administers in each county but surely there needs to be development officers who are former/current top level refs and can teach refs about game management, rules of game etc.

Respect for the ref and his decisions is drilled into rugby players from juvenile age. It clearly pays dividends.

The Lost Sheep

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Respect for the ref and his decisions is drilled into rugby players from juvenile age. It clearly pays dividends.

You dont need to tell me that. I ref rugby.

sheroman01

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Let's make a football that can be kicked 80 yards down the field.

Y'know, that is an interesting point, whether you were being serious or not! Would be very very interesting to see the impact of a slightly lighter ball.

robbiezero

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Getting ex players would be good but isnt be all end all some see it as.
After referees do the initial course to become a referee what other training do they get?
In rugby referees have monthly meetings to discuss laws/issues in the game that will have arisen. Looking at video clips of incidentas
What would you see as a proper respect campaign?

I dont see VAR being needed. Fixing/changing the rule book would be far more beneficial in relation to number of reds than any video ref

For some incidents maybe, for other off the ball incidents maybe not. But something is certainly needed to check out dodgy goals.
Waterford were knocked out of the championship this year on a dodgy goal. Galway could have lost the Leinster final on a dodgy goal.
Liam Rushes goal v KK could have seen them beaten that day.
There are lots of these every year having much more influence on games than any point caught by Hawk-Eye.