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Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

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Comments

  • #6122
    The HorsesMouth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 520 ✭✭✭The HorsesMouth


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Does anybody actually understand the logic behind closing the clothes end of Dunnes and Tesco etc ? Why is it more dangerous to buy a pair of PJs than it is to buy a bag of spuds .? I genuinely cannot figure it out .In the first lockdown at least we could buy a blessed T shirt if we needed it

    It's to stop the general mixing of people.i.e clothes shops open = more people going into town and shopping. They want people to stay at home and only to shop for essentials.
    I'm not advocating this position...just explaining what the rational is.


  • #6123
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,282 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    The HorsesMouth wrote: »
    It's to stop the general mixing of people.i.e clothes shops open = more people going into town and shopping. They want people to stay at home and only to shop for essentials.
    I'm not advocating this position...just explaining what the rational is.

    Yes I understand that rational .But Dunnes is open anyway and people already in the shop .?


  • #6124
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,779 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    People tend to browse and congregate more when clothes shopping people won't really deliberate what kind of milk they're buying.


  • #6125
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 543 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    hmmm wrote: »
    Scare-mongering, it would have to be the Telegraph.

    We have no idea how long natural immunity lasts, or vaccine immunity, and the majority of experts in this area say that they expect reinfections (if they happen) will be milder for people with normal immune systems.

    We know that patients with SARS1 have memory t-cells of the virus 17 years later.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/eji.202048970

    A peer reviewed study from a few days ago. Some key points:
    Between days 40-199 we found 90% of previous SARS-CoV-2-PCR-positive subjects (198/221), healthcare workers and potential plasma donors, to carry antibodies, 75% of which had medium to high titres (>300). In addition, we found that in subjects with detectable anti-SARS-CoV-2 IgG, neutralisation activity was in accordance with the determined IgG titre level
    Supports the idea that after a sharp drop post infection antibodies did stabilise. They were still detectable in 90% of the participants after 6 months.
    This and the strong correlation between RBD IgG titres and neutralising activity as well as protective immunity [16, 31], suggests that most people infected with SARS-CoV-2 will have circulating protective immunity for many months after COVID-19. In addition, recent reports of T cell responsiveness [32-35] show a robust T cell response. Since the SARS-CoV-2 response is in line with well-known and detailed studied immune responses resulting in lymphocyte memory, it is very likely that SARS-CoV-2 protective immunity, reducing disease severity, will last for at least a few years.

    For reference in the original SARS antibodies were detectable in 50% of participants after 3 years. Specific T-cells were still present a full 17 years later indicating some level of long term protective immunity.


  • #6126
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,296 ✭✭✭prunudo


    The HorsesMouth wrote: »
    It's to stop the general mixing of people.i.e clothes shops open = more people going into town and shopping. They want people to stay at home and only to shop for essentials.
    I'm not advocating this position...just explaining what the rational is.

    That is all well and good, but given the amount of exemptions to type of work allowed and that schools are open I don't understand why they are being so draconian on it. Tesco and the likes have always sold mixed goods, not like they are trying to capitalise on the closure of other shops.


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  • #6127
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    mandrake04 wrote: »
    Interesting video, thanks.

    The mandatory quarantine already be done to death on here, but from experience I agree with most of his other points which I have posted here before.

    Strength of Australian health system and testing, also busting all the PCR testing myths and why they dont use antigen testing.

    Why the Melbourne lockdown was harsh but necessary, was more to do with hunting down the virus rather than hiding from it.

    The only comment I didnt agree with was on schools, I think they closed schools in QLD for a few weeks and of course Victoria but NSW and I think the other states schools never closed.


    Yeah they really are set up for this kind of thing. The planning that was already in place. The way the community, local hospitals and public health seamlessly worked together. He explained well how public health doctors are on par with their colleagues in other disciplines in terms of seniority so they effectively have a seat at the table and have much more weight in requisitioning resources etc once an outbreak is identified. He mentioned how a hospital in the area will provide nursing resources at request once an outbreak identified in a nursing home for example. Terrible failings her on that issue.

    The other thing which made tonnes of sense regarding borders was 'border bubbles'. i.e communities that clearly straddle the border get exemptions and are free to cross for legitimate reasons in both directions. Working and even visiting family etc. That would work here and destroy the border straw man argument.

    The other thing was the tough restrictions but very good support. Public heath were the ones leading the effort. i.e if someone can't do grocery shopping or is vulnerable the state would do everything in it's power to support a person while quarantining. The fines were serious and enforced but their disaster management infrastructure allowed them to support those who would in all likelihood say "fvck the police".

    It's clearly a political failing as to why we can't decide to go after the virus.
    Maybe political change when it comes will be the catalyst for a change in strategy.
    We know how it works now so come January / February when businesses start to shutter for good and pandemic unemployment payments get reduced maybe people will vote with their feet.

    The decision may become academic if we have 2 / 3 more waves. The herd immunity theory is not standing up to scrutiny.

    https://twitter.com/FinancialTimes/status/1320973513784786944?s=20


  • #6128
    phormium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭phormium


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Does anybody actually understand the logic behind closing the clothes end of Dunnes and Tesco etc ? Why is it more dangerous to buy a pair of PJs than it is to buy a bag of spuds .? I genuinely cannot figure it out .In the first lockdown at least we could buy a blessed T shirt if we needed it

    I think it's more on the level playing field thing, very unfair to a small clothes shop to have to close and Tesco/Dunnes down the road selling clothes away! Plus of course it does slightly decrease the amount of people mingling.


  • #6129
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,583 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Yes I understand that rational .But Dunnes is open anyway and people already in the shop .?

    Irish and international chains complaining to tds and ministers about the fact that they are closed due to level 5 restrictions, but the likes of Dunnes and Tescos had that part open. Quote from LV saying that it wasn't acceptable for them to be doing so posted last week.

    You were lucky regarding the last lockdown, the Tesco in Navan has theirs closed off also that time too.


  • #6130
    1641
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭1641


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Yes I understand that rational .But Dunnes is open anyway and people already in the shop .?




    Because other clothes, shoes, homeware, etc shops were angry and complaining about this competitive advantage.


  • #6131
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    BobbyMalone wrote: »
    It seems to be explained (in the UK anyway) as being an attempt to make it 'fairer' on shops that only sell clothes that have had to close completely.


    Although I think Tesco have deemed tampons non-essential (in a shop in the UK), so I'm not sure how good a judge of this they are.

    That's fake news about Tesco not selling tampons.
    I saw that news piece about Tesco not selling alcohol. Young lady who tweeted why she couldn't buy tampons. I looked for her name on twitter and it didn't exist.


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  • #6132
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,410 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Away With The Fairies wrote: »
    That's fake news about Tesco not selling tampons..

    Not quite. It was in Wales and Tesco has apologised and rectified the situation.


  • #6133
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,592 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    Bank holiday weekend - no discharges. Would expect that number to drop significantly on Wednesday.

    There has been 65 discharges since Saturday.


  • #6134
    Away With The Fairies
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭Away With The Fairies


    Jim_Hodge wrote: »


    Not quite. It was in Wales and Tesco has apologised and rectified the situation.

    Ok. Weird I couldn't find the Twitter post


  • #6135
    The HorsesMouth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 520 ✭✭✭The HorsesMouth


    prunudo wrote: »
    That is all well and good, but given the amount of exemptions to type of work allowed and that schools are open I don't understand why they are being so draconian on it. Tesco and the likes have always sold mixed goods, not like they are trying to capitalise on the closure of other shops.

    Agree with all this. The closure of clothes shops and non essential retail to me makes no sense. They did a study in US or UK, I can't remember, which said retail was the cause of a negligible amount of virus spread.
    I walked into Dunnes the other day to see it all closed off and it was the first time I felt like I was going to lose the plot with anger. Not with Dunnes or anything but with the government etc for implementing ridiculous petty restrictions when there's no need. The 5km rule is another one.


  • #6136
    bb1234567
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Does anybody actually understand the logic behind closing the clothes end of Dunnes and Tesco etc ? Why is it more dangerous to buy a pair of PJs than it is to buy a bag of spuds .? I genuinely cannot figure it out .In the first lockdown at least we could buy a blessed T shirt if we needed it

    It's to discourage people leaving the house and being out and about and you can't close places that provide food so this is where that leaves us


  • #6137
    mloc123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,445 ✭✭✭mloc123


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    It's to discourage people leaving the house and being out and about and you can't close places that provide food so this is where that leaves us

    Yup... it is to stop people heading out to browse around the clothes section for "something to do"


  • #6138
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    It's to discourage people leaving the house and being out and about and you can't close places that provide food so this is where that leaves us
    It would be a whole lot clearer to just shut shopping centres. It's less about people and more about minimising the number of retail hit by Level 5.


  • #6139
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,296 ✭✭✭prunudo


    bb1234567 wrote: »
    It's to discourage people leaving the house and being out and about and you can't close places that provide food so this is where that leaves us

    But people are leaving the house for so many various reasons its an over the top reaction. I'd understand if we were in a proper level 5 strict lockdown but we're not. The authorities may think we are in the strictest level but we're are not. Its level 4 at best.


  • #6140
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,218 ✭✭✭khalessi


    So the Department received a letter in August about the hand sanitiser

    https://www.westmeathindependent.ie/2020/10/23/school-hand-sanitiser-concerns-raised-in-local-mans-letter-to-minister-in-august/


  • #6141
    mloc123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,445 ✭✭✭mloc123


    prunudo wrote: »
    That is all well and good, but given the amount of exemptions to type of work allowed and that schools are open I don't understand why they are being so draconian on it. Tesco and the likes have always sold mixed goods, not like they are trying to capitalise on the closure of other shops.

    And as has been pointed out hundreds, maybe thousands of times now.... some types of work and education are viewed as being essential services, having a browse for new clothes in Tesco because you have nothing else to fill your time is not.


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  • #6142
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    The HorsesMouth wrote: »
    Agree with all this. The closure of clothes shops and non essential retail to me makes no sense. They did a study in US or UK, I can't remember, which said retail was the cause of a negligible amount of virus spread.
    I walked into Dunnes the other day to see it all closed off and it was the first time I felt like I was going to lose the plot with anger. Not with Dunnes or anything but with the government etc for implementing ridiculous petty restrictions when there's no need. The 5km rule is another one.

    Even if I agree with you that non essential retail is negligible there is a problem.

    The golf is negligible. The hair dressers is negligible. Retail is negligible.

    Guess what?

    3 Negligible figures isn't negligible anymore.

    Everyone can't get their negligible activity back.

    The other problem of course is that non essential retail (like the bars and pubs) are likely to create cases from community transmission that are harder to trace. So its difficult to prove an effect even if its present.


  • #6143
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,296 ✭✭✭prunudo


    mloc123 wrote: »
    Yup... it is to stop people heading out to browse around the clothes section for "something to do"

    Not my thing and understand its how some people spend their free time, but surely browsing in Tesco or dunnes clothes section isnt the same as going into various individual clothes shop. What the former stock is surely on the essential end of clothing rather tham the fashion end.


  • #6144
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    mloc123 wrote: »
    Yup... it is to stop people heading out to browse around the clothes section for "something to do"

    No, as mentioned a page ago it's about competition.

    It's seen as unfair for dunnes/tesco to continue selling clothes etc while their rivals are forced to shut.


  • #6145
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Even if I agree with you that non essential retail is negligible there is a problem.

    The golf is negligible. The hair dressers is negligible. Retail is negligible.

    Guess what?

    3 Negligible figures isn't negligible anymore.

    Everyone can't get their negligible activity back.

    The other problem of course is that non essential retail (like the bars and pubs) are likely to create cases from community transmission that are harder to trace. So its difficult to prove an effect even if its present.
    If the total level of negligible adds up to less than 1% it's still absolutely negligible and makes it look like anything that can be closed should be is the strategy. That's not living with this nor sustainable.


  • #6146
    Liberalbrehon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 215 ✭✭Liberalbrehon


    Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.


  • #6147
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,296 ✭✭✭prunudo


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    No, as mentioned a page ago it's about competition.

    It's seen as unfair for dunnes/tesco to continue selling clothes etc while their rivals are forced to shut.

    So its not about protecting people from covid or allowing people have access to essential items, its because one company or business group were in the ear of a politician.


  • #6148
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Liberalbrehon wrote: »
    Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.
    Nor is a one line cliché evidence of coherent thought!


  • #6149
    mloc123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,445 ✭✭✭mloc123


    prunudo wrote: »
    Not my thing and understand its how some people spend their free time, but surely browsing in Tesco or dunnes clothes section isnt the same as going into various individual clothes shop. What the former stock is surely on the essential end of clothing rather tham the fashion end.

    My friend works in Tesco, back in March/April he said that people doing their shopping wasn't an issue... but people coming in for "a look", sometimes the same people a couple of times a day were. Their clothes section was a separate unit and they ended up closing it at the time (without being told to).

    I don't get the sudden urge for everyone to go buy some cheap clothes in Tesco tho... surely you can live for 6 weeks without buying new clothes..


  • #6150
    The HorsesMouth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 520 ✭✭✭The HorsesMouth


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Even if I agree with you that non essential retail is negligible there is a problem.

    The golf is negligible. The hair dressers is negligible. Retail is negligible.

    Guess what?

    3 Negligible figures isn't negligible anymore.

    Everyone can't get their negligible activity back.

    The other problem of course is that non essential retail (like the bars and pubs) are likely to create cases from community transmission that are harder to trace. So its difficult to prove an effect even if its present.

    But there is a blur between the essential and non essential retail shops. Look at what is going on in Dunnes. If you just left that section of the economy open there would be no blur and people would be able to shop and keep the economy going a bit more.


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  • #6151
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    mloc123 wrote: »
    My friend works in Tesco, back in March/April he said that people doing their shopping wasn't an issue... but people coming in for "a look", sometimes the same people a couple of times a day were. Their clothes section was a separate unit and they ended up closing it at the time (without being told to).

    I don't get the sudden urge for everyone to go buy some cheap clothes in Tesco tho... surely you can live for 6 weeks without buying new clothes..
    Because it's what they do. Why, oh why aren't other people like me?!


This discussion has been closed.
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