Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

Sweet.Science · 25-10-2020 05:17PM

circadian wrote: »

Yes. They are the top level of the organisation and anything that happens in their pyramid is ultimately their responsibility. The GAA have paid lip service in saying that games are cancelled but there is absolutely no attempt at enforcing the regulations and that is obvious given the behaviour I've seen this last week in local pitches.

Haha but what do you want them to do . Be in this local park and stop the training ?

If adults aren't acting within guidelines it's on them .

Report it to the gardai it's annoying you . Contact the club chairman

Jim_Hodge · 25-10-2020 05:19PM

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Why blame an organization and not the players parents mentors etc . Makes no sense

If a rugby team weren't behaving within the guidelines would you blame the IRFU

It's not that easy to separate the GAA from the clubs which link to the players to the parents. It's a badge of honour for then in Good Times and can't be easily discarded when things turn sour.

Sweet.Science · 25-10-2020 05:20PM

OscarMIlde wrote: »

For me one of the biggest bugbears is that matches were allowed go ahead on the condition that players were being regularly tested, yet it appears now that only occurred if clubs/counties opted into this. Surely every club/team that played without submitting to prior testing should be fined for not abiding by the restrictions. After all, it is actions like these that have contributed towards superspreader events and our level 5 lockdown.

Did you just make this up ? NPHET said nothing about testing . According to them it was safe to play . So your issue should be with them

cbreeze · 25-10-2020 05:20PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Some thoughts on possible winter COVID outbreaks.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02972-4

Yep, its definitely the 'cronyvirus'

gipi · 25-10-2020 05:21PM

political analyst wrote: »

But the managers of nursing homes and of hospitals place deaths of residents and of patients on record immediately, don't they? It can't just be left to relatives to register deaths - and what if a deceased person has no surviving relatives?

No, hospitals don't register deaths. My father died in hospital a couple of years ago, I registered his death at the HSE office a few weeks later (he died a week before Christmas, so there was a delay on my side in getting to the office)

Sweet.Science · 25-10-2020 05:21PM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

It's not that easy to separate the GAA from the clubs which link to the players to the parents. It's a badge of honour for then in Good Times and can't be easily discarded when things turn sour.

You still haven't said what they can do ? Shut down all activities for thousands of kids because they were told parents were standing too close together in a park ?

caveat emptor · 25-10-2020 05:24PM

circadian wrote: »

Yes. They are the top level of the organisation and anything that happens in their pyramid is ultimately their responsibility. The GAA have paid lip service in saying that games are cancelled but there is absolutely no attempt at enforcing the regulations and that is obvious given the behaviour I've seen this last week in local pitches.

I love the gaa and does a lot of good work in the community (apart from the odd sheeben)

I feel a pyramid is a bit unfair. It's more accurately a multi level marketing scheme.
Enrols children and ends up with a sky deal. The highest level you can reach is county and even then you won't recoup costs as you won't get a sponsorship deal in all likelihood. :pac:

:eek:

440Hertz · 25-10-2020 05:27PM

political analyst wrote: »

But the managers of nursing homes and of hospitals place deaths of residents and of patients on record immediately, don't they? It can't just be left to relatives to register deaths - and what if a deceased person has no surviving relatives?

My mom died a couple of years ago, quite unexpectedly, and what happens is basically a doctor, in this case a registrar, writes a certificate outlining the cause of death and time/date.

You then have to go to the Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marriages to formally notify it and register it. To be quite honest, I thought it was a ludicrous system. The hospital should be able to do all of this without a family member or next of kin having to act as 'the informant.'

All it did for us was cause huge extra stress, trauma and upset after a rather sudden death.

It's fairly obvious that it screws up the statistical analysis for COVID-19 too. It just seems like an archaic process.

The reality is most people who die in Ireland are probably pronounced dead in a healthcare environment be it a hospital or anywhere else. It's not the 19th century anymore and the processes should reflect that.

After that the actual Death Certificate seems to be demanded by a lot of banks, utilities and other bodies to close down accounts and in a lot of cases they won't even accept it unless it's authenticated by a solicitor. So it's endless back an forth to offices for weeks trying to sort things out.

Even at this stage, two years later, there are still issues cropping up with accounts and various other things that we were unaware of.

Then you've got these unfathomable processes like obtaining a deed of probate. I have yet to comprehend what the hell that's all about other than paying a lot of money to a lot of solicitors for effectively stamping things.

frank8211 · 25-10-2020 05:27PM

Sweet.Science wrote: »

You still haven't said what they can do ? Shut down all activities for thousands of kids because they were told parents were standing too close together in a park ?

Yes, Immediately. how leadership

Polar101 · 25-10-2020 05:28PM

440Hertz wrote: »

Not sure if this has already been posted further back up the thread, but from the Irish Examiner. Seems to underline the urgent need for airport screening.

Yeah, at the moment it seems to be almost impossible to catch these travel cases. And it makes me think the earlier talk of state of the art HEPA filters onboard planes was just PR talk (or was it?).

I know they tried airport testing in Finland, but while they initially detected several cases from some North Macedonian and Romanian flights, now they are detecting very few cases. So the only way to prevent travel cases might be a combination of "proof of negative test"/rapid testing/quarantines for incoming passengers.

Sweet.Science · 25-10-2020 05:28PM

frank8211 wrote: »

Yes, Immediately. how leadership

Ha

Jim_Hodge · 25-10-2020 05:33PM

political analyst wrote: »

But the managers of nursing homes and of hospitals place deaths of residents and of patients on record immediately, don't they? It can't just be left to relatives to register deaths - and what if a deceased person has no surviving relatives?

Nursing homes don't generally register deaths. We, the family, had to do it some time back.

440Hertz · 25-10-2020 05:34PM

Polar101 wrote: »

Yeah, at the moment it seems to be almost impossible to catch these travel cases. And it makes me think the earlier talk of state of the art HEPA filters onboard planes was just PR talk (or was it?).

I know they tried airport testing in Finland, but while they initially detected several cases from some North Macedonian and Romanian flights, now they are detecting very few cases. So the only way to prevent travel cases might be a combination of "proof of negative test"/rapid testing/quarantines for incoming passengers.

HEPA filters on board only would stop some degree of transmission on board. Air still mixes and unless you'd air curtains and all of that it's still going to move around the cabin. It's probably better than many other enclosed spaces though as at least it is a known air change system that's got very detailed specifications. If someone coughs or otherwise blows particulates of virus into the air, it's still going to move around the cabin until it's eventually pulled into a ventilation duct and filtered. It's not like each passenger is in their own bubble.

However, the issue is more that someone with COVID-19 gets on a flight somewhere with a high outbreak, like some parts of the USA had at that time when we had it under control.

They board a flight, land in Ireland. Have no or few symptoms and then go on to infect a large number of people.

The HEPA filters on the aircraft aren't going to prevent that in any way. You have to test people before they board or before they can mingle in Ireland. That's exactly what Germany is doing and Iceland and quite a few other places.

caveat emptor · 25-10-2020 05:35PM

is_that_so wrote: »

It really shows how people not following public health guidance can spread it. It's like the case in the NW, sure it probably came in on a flight but subsequent behaviours spread it to nearly 60 people.

Yeah sad reality is that there are people who don't agree with the 'advice' or don't want to follow it for whatever reason.

I learned recently that in Germany the quarantine is managed by the border authority / federal police. If found to be in breach 25,000 euro fine.

That seems excessive but how much is this lockdown costing?

Jim_Hodge · 25-10-2020 05:36PM

Sweet.Science wrote: »

You still haven't said what they can do ? Shut down all activities for thousands of kids because they were told parents were standing too close together in a park ?

That exactly is what they should have done. "Sorry folks, there are too many here and social distance is not being kept. We'll have to cancel".

It's called responsible leadership.

prunudo · 25-10-2020 05:47PM

circadian wrote: »

I don't have any issues with the GAA and any time I've brought these incidents up I get accused of having an axe to grind or similar. I really am getting pissed off with the clubs doing whatever they want.

The GAA has done absolutely nothing as a body to try and reign in this sort of carry on. This morning I saw several local kids teams out training. I understand that no contact training with 15 maximum is what's stated for level 5.

This was more than 15 having practice matches. Parents on top of each other shouting from the sidelines. Not one **** given. The local soccer team had a full crew too but less parents hanging around.

I didn't realise training was still allowed in level 5. So they can all mix before, during and after, while parents look on chatting, but I can't go for a 6km solo cycle from my house. These rules make no sense whatsoever.

Happydays2020 · 25-10-2020 05:48PM

My understanding is there is real time reporting from hospital settings and nursing homes also Reporting where the doctor indicates it as probable. This is required under the 1947 act is is different to normal death registrations.

Goldrickssan · 25-10-2020 05:49PM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

That exactly is what they should have done. "Sorry folks, there are too many here and social distance is not being kept. We'll have to cancel".

It's called responsible leadership.

But we're basing this whole thing of one persons post on the Internet.

Pods of 15 are allowed for kids, you can fit alot of adults in an open area while social distancing to watch their kids. Some people just won't be please until the GAA is disbanded.

circadian · 25-10-2020 05:52PM

Sweet.Science wrote: »

You still haven't said what they can do ? Shut down all activities for thousands of kids because they were told parents were standing too close together in a park ?

If they're informing all levels of the organisation what is expected for these training sessions and that isn't clearly happening, then yes. Shut down the activities because those who are running the training are incapable of following the guidelines of the GAA. Literally any other scenario involving disregard of the rules or advice from the top levels would no doubt result in some sort of penalty, why is this any different?

spookwoman · 25-10-2020 05:53PM

BringBackMick wrote: »

any swabs today or it 48hr job

No hse op report for yesterday either. Wonder if anything to do with another possible f up on the numbers.
The other day when the links were removed for a few days word of pdf's it was down to how icu numbers. One part say 35 or such and another part had an extra 1.
Noticed the same on the 23rd 37 listed under the bed details but 38 on the following page.

ACitizenErased · 25-10-2020 05:57PM

Stheno wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-range-of-key-indicators-on-spread-of-disease-starting-to-decline-1.4390739?mode=amp

If community transmission has stayed at 28% for the pat month, can the drop in cases be attributed to getting clusters reduced as a result of less contacts/getting existing clusters under control?

Community transmission is still 28%? I thought Tony said it was widespread?

Widdensushi · 25-10-2020 05:59PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Yeah sad reality is that there are people who don't agree with the 'advice' or don't want to follow it for whatever reason.

I learned recently that in Germany the quarantine is managed by the border authority / federal police. If found to be in breach 25,000 euro fine.

That seems excessive but how much is this lockdown costing?

A quick Google and I can't find it, link please

MerlinSouthDub · 25-10-2020 06:00PM

spookwoman wrote: »

No hse op report for yesterday either. Wonder if anything to do with another possible f up on the numbers.
The other day when the links were removed for a few days word of pdf's it was down to how icu numbers. One part say 35 or such and another part had an extra 1.
Noticed the same on the 23rd 37 listed under the bed details but 38 on the following page.

Hospital numbers on the dashboard this morning were wrong too. Lots of data problems! We never get swabs on Sunday though, as far as I know.

Stheno · 25-10-2020 06:01PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Community transmission is still 28%? I thought Tony said it was widespread?

Yep. Thats what Paul Reid said its been since the beginning of October

I thought the same as you and have decided that the usual term of "its rampant in the community" must be related to all the clusters or something else

Beasty · 25-10-2020 06:03PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

That seems excessive but how much is this lockdown costing?

That's an interesting question

Let's say it's costing Ireland €25bn

Then let's say Ireland actually has had 100,000 cases including those not diagnosed, that's costing a quarter of a million a case.

I think fining someone up to 10% of that for risking another 1, 10, 20, 50 or more cases is not that unreasonable

Boggles · 25-10-2020 06:05PM

Community transmission will always be the minority figure with any sort of semi functioning contact tracing system in place.

You may not find where the index case picked it up from, but it's "easy" find the 3 family members that index case infected.

Turtwig · 25-10-2020 06:08PM

Stheno wrote: »

Yep. Thats what Paul Reid said its been since the beginning of October

I thought the same as you and have decided that the usual term of "its rampant in the community" must be related to all the clusters or something else

Iirc it's considered widespread uncontrolled transmission when the positivity rate is above 5%. Not all cases are being caught. Of those that are, 1 in 4, are community transmission. That could legitimately be considered rampant.

manniot2 · 25-10-2020 06:10PM

Leo just confirmed what I said on here a few days ago - hospitals having their quietest October ever. Of course i was pillared for saying it here.

Stheno · 25-10-2020 06:10PM

Turtwig wrote: »

Iirc it's considered widespread uncontrolled transmission when the positivity rate is above 5%. Not all cases are being caught. Of those that are, 1 in 4, are community transmission. That could legitimately be considered rampant.

Ah I thought the 5% was related to the positivity rate, I.e the WHO consider more than 5% positivity to be not under control?

I was comparing it to when community transmission was 60+% back in March/April

Fr_Dougal · 25-10-2020 06:18PM

manniot2 wrote: »

Leo just confirmed what I said on here a few days ago - hospitals having their quietest October ever. Of course i was pillared for saying it here.

They’re quiet because a lot of procedures have been cancelled, patients are not getting called for scans etc.

Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

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