Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Nonoperational · 28-09-2020 08:11PM

3xh wrote: »

Thank you. Exactly.

But they’re happy to say X cases in ICU in the same breath as Covid.

I don’t want to know ‘Mr. Jones from Main Street is in ICU after falling off his ladder. He’s also Covid positive’

I just want the Glynn’s and co to admit, don’t worry folks, none of the six in ICU are there because of Covid, etc. *I know these figures relate to NI.

The authorities are being disingenuous by not clearly stating what their figures mean.

In the hospital I work in for the first wave, out of approximately 20 ICU patients that had covid, 19 were from the community who presented with Covid as their primary pathology, worsened and ended up in ICU and 1 was a patient who contracted it in hospital after a surgery and had to be escalated to ICU.

Most elderly patients who are on their last legs and on deaths door actually don't end up going to ICU at all.Covid or no covid.

28-09-2020 08:12PM

kippy wrote: »

I don't get the conspiracy here.
Why would scientists and doctors want to retain restrictions any longer than they absolutely needed to?

The government have dug themselves into a bit of a hole here... it wouldn’t reflect well on them at all if they suddenly admitted that the death rate is tiny and way overstated and we crashed the economy for no real reason.

They’ll keep this thing going for months and try to claim they saved thousands of lives.

3xh · 28-09-2020 08:12PM

kippy wrote: »

I don't get the conspiracy here.
Why would scientists and doctors want to retain restrictions any longer than they absolutely needed to?

Haha! The doctors and scientists aren’t retaining the restrictions.

NPHET and it’s very public face, Glynn together with the current government are. And they’ve very firmly painted their colours to the mast now. There’s no going back. Not without something tangibly new that they can say ‘this is new news, this is different, we can change tack now’ to the masses.

Many doctors have spoken out, also. They get labelled failed doctors, basically. Dr. Feeney is but one example.

For every one doctor that speaks out against these restrictions, do we think that’s it? That’s them all? No one else in labs, in wards, in the Dail, agrees with them?! They’re too scared to speak out, is why.

That’s just the doctors and scientists. The media need Covid for advertising. Money. That is all. Click bait.

kippy · 28-09-2020 08:13PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

I don’t think there is a conspiracy, I do think they have got a sense of power and have lost the run of themselves, megalomaniacs if you will! They know they’re the ones calling the shots!

Why though? It's not power..why would they like to see their friends, family, neighbours, the entire country subjected to these restrictions if they are not needed?

28-09-2020 08:18PM

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/coronavirus-ireland-390-new-cases-and-no-further-deaths-as-health-chiefs-consider-moving-five-more-counties-to-level-3-39568867.html

The fact that Clare is being considered for level 3 indicates what obtuse swine NPHET truly are. We have almost unfailingly been in low single figures daily these past few weeks. They might as well have publicans crawl over broken glass at this stage. Contemptible idiocy.

3xh · 28-09-2020 08:20PM

Nonoperational wrote: »

In the hospital I work in for the first wave, out of approximately 20 ICU patients that had covid, 19 were from the community who presented with Covid as their primary pathology, worsened and ended up in ICU and 1 was a patient who contracted it in hospital after a surgery and had to be escalated to ICU.

Most elderly patients who are on their last legs and on deaths door actually don't end up going to ICU at all.Covid or no covid.

Thank you. Very interesting.

Can I ask, over what timeframe were those 19 in your ICU? As in, were they drip feeding through the ICU over a number of weeks or did they all present in one go, effectively?

And secondly, how many of the 19 survived?

Captain_Crash · 28-09-2020 08:29PM

kippy wrote: »

Why though? It's not power..why would they like to see their friends, family, neighbours, the entire country subjected to these restrictions if they are not needed?

It was mentioned in the post above yours, but NPHET have put themselves in a corner. They can’t (or won’t) be seen to suddenly change strategy now and I do think they disregard any information that doesn’t fit a certain narrative!

kippy · 28-09-2020 08:32PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

It was mentioned in the post above yours, but NPHET have put themselves in a corner. They can’t (or won’t) be seen to suddenly change strategy now and I do think they disregard any information that doesn’t fit a certain narrative!

So, what are people asking them to do?

Captain_Crash · 28-09-2020 08:37PM

kippy wrote: »

So, what are people asking them to do?

What do you mean? People can’t ask them anything! They are unaccountable and have no public mandate. If they were to listen to me tho, I would ask that they critically review all decisions, use verifiable data when making these decisions, bring in some dissenting voices and when making a recommendation to government provide arguments both for and against such recommendation! And I’d also ask them to stop speaking to the media and report to government only

3xh · 28-09-2020 08:38PM

kippy wrote: »

So, what are people asking them to do?

Honestly, if they changed tack with nothing new to hang their hat on, I’d say ‘thank you, well done, this will be appreciated by the country I’m sure. Now let’s make this work’

They’ll get serious flack from the other side obviously but with the same careful media management shown to date, they’ll get through the worst. I’m not so sure the 3 government parties would fair so well at the next GE though.

jackboy · 28-09-2020 08:41PM

Deleted User wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/coronavirus-ireland-390-new-cases-and-no-further-deaths-as-health-chiefs-consider-moving-five-more-counties-to-level-3-39568867.html

The fact that Clare is being considered for level 3 indicates what obtuse swine NPHET truly are. We have almost unfailingly been in low single figures daily these past few weeks. They might as well have publicans crawl over broken glass at this stage. Contemptible idiocy.

That is surely a typo regarding Clare.

28-09-2020 08:54PM

Ireland’s approach is very clear and the government/NPHET/media are all onboard.

Every other day we have articles from some young lad that was supposedly “knocked for six” by Covid and wants to warn others of its dangers. Wonder if they are paid for the interview? Also funny how we don’t hear from the 90+ percent who had no issues other than a few sniffles.

If a bunch of cases come from a pub or a house party you can sure that Glynn will have all of the data. But they never reveal how many cases got into nursing homes or started in meat factories.

The deaths include probable/possible and a huge number of WITH Covid. No further details on how many were likely to live much longer.

The hospital and ICU figures also include WITH Covid. It’s unknown how many are primarily in there for other reasons.

Anyone willing to scratch beneath the surface even a tiny bit can see the narrative we are been fed.

alentejo · 28-09-2020 08:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland’s approach is very clear and the government/NPHET/media are all onboard.

Every other day we have articles from some young lad that was supposedly “knocked for six” by Covid and wants to warn others of its dangers. Wonder if they are paid for the interview? Also funny how we don’t hear from the 90+ percent who had no issues other than a few sniffles.

If a bunch of cases come from a pub or a house party you can sure that Glynn will have all of the data. But they never reveal how many cases got into nursing homes or started in meat factories.

The deaths include probable/possible and a huge number of WITH Covid. No further details on how many were likely to live much longer.

The hospital and ICU figures also include WITH Covid. It’s unknown how many are primarily in there for other reasons.

Anyone willing to scratch beneath the surface even a tiny bit can see the narrative we are been fed.

I get the impression that the gov want to close down the hospitality industry until next spring (or summer) at this stage.

funnydoggy · 28-09-2020 08:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ireland’s approach is very clear and the government/NPHET/media are all onboard.

Every other day we have articles from some young lad that was supposedly “knocked for six” by Covid and wants to warn others of its dangers. Wonder if they are paid for the interview? Also funny how we don’t hear from the 90+ percent who had no issues other than a few sniffles.

If a bunch of cases come from a pub or a house party you can sure that Glynn will have all of the data. But they never reveal how many cases got into nursing homes or started in meat factories.

The deaths include probable/possible and a huge number of WITH Covid. No further details on how many were likely to live much longer.

The hospital and ICU figures also include WITH Covid. It’s unknown how many are primarily in there for other reasons.

Anyone willing to scratch beneath the surface even a tiny bit can see the narrative we are been fed.

As I said in the COVID thread, a good friend of mine had it, recovered and is totally fine. She's 22.

Another person I know whose mother had it. She was in her mid 80s. Recovered fine and got p*ssed and did karaoke last weekend with her daughter.

Stories like this should be given media attention but I doubt it because then it would ruin the doom and gloom narrative.

Stormyteacup · 28-09-2020 09:00PM

FrStone wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0928/1168014-covid-19-figures/

So NEPHET are now saying 70 cases in Cork are linked to pubs and restaurants...

Anyone any information about this. Considering about a week ago they had no data and they suddenly do now.

They said they would ask a a small sample of contract tracers to ask questions beyond 48 hours for information gathering purposes.

70 cases in Cork ‘linked’ to pubs and restaurants - for all we know that ‘link’ could be that they had visited a pub or restaurant in the last week, not that they had contracted it there.

Surely if they had contacted it in the same small number of pubs and restaurants those premises would have been closed immediately and they would be a known cluster?

Stinks of feebly justifying shutting them down with little substantive data.

Penfailed · 28-09-2020 09:00PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Weren't there outbreaks inside Hospitals? People in Hospital and ICU (haematology wards) in 2 hospitals got infected with Covid while inside Hospital.
It caused most of the recent deaths too.

Edit- here's the story https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-54247628

Yep. A group of nurses had a party...allegedly.

bucketybuck · 28-09-2020 09:03PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Not permanent, you can always get another job and sure here's 350 a week until you do

Again, not permanent. The health authorities have a lot to answer for in terms of putting a freeze on things like cancer screenings etc, but everyone else.......so you've to wait til next year to get married, boo fcuking hoo?

Gimme a break, are you saying that's comparable to people losing their parents, grandparents and relatives FOREVER?

Earlier in the year that was the case, and I wasn't a big fan of it. However the new 5 level living plan allows 10 people attend a funeral at level 5, with increases at every level, so that point is moot.

No problem, I'll say it to you outside my Granny-in-law's gaff and you can tell her to start saying her goodbyes because you're only getting 350 a week and have to do up the auld CV and can't go the pub and *checks notes* some lads can't be there when their kid was born (a practice that was banned in her time).

There you have it. No interest in gaining some perspective on the death rates and no interest in understanding the negative consequences of the covid response, just another poster with tunnel vision who cannot conceive of anything outside their covid bubble. Who cares about the hundreds of thousands of people affected, they don't matter in the slightest.

It kinda reminds me of the evangelicals who cry about abortion but couldn't care less about helping the children once they are born, its the same sort of nasty myopic view.

I read a harrowing account today of a lady who went into hospital for the birth of her child only to find that it was going to be stillborn. She had to suffer that alone, her husband had not been allowed to join her. Why don't you stand in front of her and tell her "gimme a break".

One issue voters really are the worst.

3xh · 28-09-2020 09:06PM

I think the plan now is to lock down as much of the country as they can feasibly get away with so that there’s scope to open up around Christmas.

Rather than the other way around.

JRant · 28-09-2020 09:11PM

MadYaker wrote: »

People dying is sad whatever, but people die all the time that’s not the reason for the restrictions. It’s because of our pathetic health system capacity. 18 people in ICU beds sounds like a small number but compared how many beds are free it’s actually a big number.

The test and trace program is sufficient it’s the health system that is screwing us. It’s one of the reasons sweden can plough on like they have with all the people who’ve died. One positive I hope to come from this a proper health service in the future with excess capacity.

It's a disgrace what's playing out now. Every winter we have a "crisis" only this year they think by crippling the country it will get them through it without actually having to fix it.

On the ICU numbers, do we actually know what the capacity is? It seems to change with the weather.

mcburns07 · 28-09-2020 09:15PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The government have dug themselves into a bit of a hole here... it wouldn’t reflect well on them at all if they suddenly admitted that the death rate is tiny and way overstated and we crashed the economy for no real reason.

They’ll keep this thing going for months and try to claim they saved thousands of lives.

I don't buy into this thinking at all, if that was the case it's pretty remarkable that every government is taking the same approach. You'd think there would be at least a few that would hold their hands up and say "We got it wrong".

FintanMcluskey · 28-09-2020 09:51PM

AdamD wrote: »

Excess deaths are actually at about 850-900, and maybe even lower by now.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0828/1161895-excess-mortality-figures/

Following on from this, while bored I checked RIP from July 1st to September 28th on RIP to compare 2020 with 2019.

It display 25 extra pages of notices for the period in 2019.

That roughly was 1000 notices extra in 2019 for that period, now thats not accurate of course, many are duplicated etc

It will be interesting to see however, what the official excess, if any, turns out to be.

ixoy · 28-09-2020 10:01PM

3xh wrote: »

I think the plan now is to lock down as much of the country as they can feasibly get away with so that there’s scope to open up around Christmas.

Whatever about now, compliance would be out the window if they tried further lockdowns/restrictions at Christmas. It's definitely easier to do now, as you say.

Nonoperational · 28-09-2020 10:03PM

3xh wrote: »

Thank you. Very interesting.

Can I ask, over what timeframe were those 19 in your ICU? As in, were they drip feeding through the ICU over a number of weeks or did they all present in one go, effectively?

And secondly, how many of the 19 survived?

Slow and stead admissions as the numbers went up. Not in one go really.

About 75% survived.

28-09-2020 10:08PM

Charlie Bird is on Claire Byrne Show at 10.30 protesting at the restrictions, the hysteria, the nightly figures .........yet so few deaths ! Should be good.

One person per hour dies from cancer on this country , far far higher than Covid. Most people getting Covid now are very young. Yet all we hear is that NPHET is very concerned and the next 2 weeks are critical !

FintanMcluskey · 28-09-2020 10:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Charlie Bird is on Claire Byrne Show at 10.30 protesting at the restrictions, the hysteria, the nightly figures .........yet so few deaths ! Should be good.

One person per hour dies from cancer on this country , far far higher than Covid. Most people getting Covid now are very young. Yet all we hear is that NPHET is very concerned and the next 2 weeks are critical !

New found respect for Charlie.

Context exactly, people died in the same numbers last year

Claire comes across an arrogant interviewer, let Charlie talk

normanoffside · 28-09-2020 10:48PM

Looking at Charlie, he has higher chance of survival than Dr Motherway.

funnydoggy · 28-09-2020 10:54PM

One thing I know is, I'm glad I quit twitter. Just went on to see a video and the hysteria is something unbelievable

road_high · 28-09-2020 10:56PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

New found respect for Charlie.

Context exactly, people died in the same numbers last year

Claire comes across an arrogant interviewer, let Charlie talk

She’s a scripted vanilla idiot. Perfect rte canon fodder and eye candy.

road_high · 28-09-2020 10:57PM

“That terrible term herd immunity” ...give me strength.....

CruelSummer · 28-09-2020 10:59PM

road_high wrote: »

“That terrible term herd immunity” ...give me strength.....

She wasn’t questioned on that either. Why is herd immunity a terrible term? Is this not what a vaccine’s goal is?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings