Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

hayoc

topper75 wrote: »

Yeah couldn't they postpone their youth to another decade or something?

Youths own their own houses these days?

They are certainly doing better than youths of previous generations!

average_runner

topper75 wrote: »

Yeah couldn't they postpone their youth to another decade or something?

And this is one of the reasons we can't do what Sweden is doing.


Sooner we do the basics right sooner we can get things moving again and can have the parties.

robbiezero

ixoy wrote: »

I was in St. Anne's that weekend and the previous. It's well laid out and most people are very good at separating out. Certainly saw a few wearing masks in queues as well as the vendors themselves. I thought it was a great set up as it allowed people to enjoy a range of food, and products, outside with plenty of space to sit afterwards.

There myself the last few Saturdays as well. Great set up, pity they don't do Sundays as well with the lockdown, there is a big appetite for these outdoor markets.

weldoninhio

hayoc wrote: »

Youths own their own houses these days?

They are certainly doing better than youths of previous generations!

Even drinking outdoors young lads are getting it in the neck. Someone was giving out on a local page yesterday about some lads drinking take away pints (They left the spot they were drinking them spotless). Thankfully he got evicerated by the majority of those who replied.

hayoc

weldoninhio wrote: »

Even drinking outdoors young lads are getting it in the neck. Someone was giving out on a local page yesterday about some lads drinking take away pints (They left the spot they were drinking them spotless). Thankfully he got evicerated by the majority of those who replied.

Its a bit low class to see gangs of people drinking outdoors in non designated areas - what are they doing for a bathroom, or to wash their hands?

I dont really mind if they are behaving themselves, but unfortunately the booze can addle the brain and anti social/irresponsible behaviour can ensue.

But right now (in Dublin anyway) you are only supposed to be meeting with people from one other household and reducing the frequency of your contacts so its irresponsible for "some lads" to be gathering in a group drinking (unless they were all from just 2 households - or in a county thats on level 2?).

topper75

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Yeah because they are really being asked to postpone their youth :rolleyes:, it hasn't even been 8 months yet ffs.

8 months. And the big cavalry charge of the 'vaccine' is when exactly? In that context, I'm afraid the "f**k it" principle applies.

I hold no grudge against any youngster living their life. It is their birthright. I don't subscribe to this idea that we can save old people from death if only we are careful enough. Life will go on but individuals do not.

topper75

average_runner wrote: »

And this is one of the reasons we can't do what Sweden is doing.


Sooner we do the basics right sooner we can get things moving again and can have the parties.

Are you talking about eradication?

hayoc

topper75 wrote: »

8 months. And the big cavalry charge of the 'vaccine' is when exactly? In that context, I'm afraid the "f**k it" principle applies.

I hold no grudge against any youngster living their life. It is their birthright. I don't subscribe to this idea that we can save old people from death if only we are careful enough. Life will go on but individuals do not.

Laughable stuff.

What about the birthright of the people who are vulnerable or have compromised immunity?

doireann08

whats the story with gyms? Thought they were only open for 1:1 tuition. Passed by one earlier ( its above my local shop). They were holding classes.

topper75

hayoc wrote: »

Laughable stuff.

What about the birthright of the people who are vulnerable or have compromised immunity?

They also have the right to live their lives as they see fit within whatever capacity they have. This was also the case pre-2020, when a myriad of OTHER infectious diseases were out there. The arrival of a new virus has simply triggered a wild political overreaction. The threat to the lives of the vulnerable has not changed by any massive magnitude in relative terms. The curtailment of the lives of the young and healthy has however been massive in relative terms.

We've gotten this wrong. If it is not evident now - it will be in just a few years.

Assetbacked

Bigboldworld wrote: »

Ha, remembered why i logged out of this debate a long time ago, I’ve done more than basic research,, so let me get this straight, outdoor groupings of say ten people poses no threat if one of the group has the virus because they’re outdoors, would love to see the research on that, note I’m talking in a group of people less than one foot from each other. In such circumstances would it not be better to wear a face covering? I’m guessing you’ll find a way to say no.

On this basis you must also be in the camp that believes up to 10 times or more of the official recorded positive cases have been infected given how virulent it is and therefore we are closer to herd immunity than people think, correct?

average_runner

topper75 wrote: »

Are you talking about eradication?

Nope, just under control. We have other treatments on going in the hospitals and we don't want them to stop again.


People would like to visit their parents in nursing homes and maybe take them out for a few hours.


If we can learn to live and control the virus we can go back to normal.


Right now we are heading for a total lockdown in a month or so.


Its in our own hands on what happens

Bigboldworld

ixoy wrote: »

I was in St. Anne's that weekend and the previous. It's well laid out and most people are very good at separating out. Certainly saw a few wearing masks in queues as well as the vendors themselves. I thought it was a great set up as it allowed people to enjoy a range of food, and products, outside with plenty of space to sit afterwards.

I’m not sure if you were in the same area of the park as me however I was in a slow moving q for the stables, nobody in the q was wearing a mask, all less than a few feet apart, surely that could not be deemed a good setup, surely that should be deemed as a large gathering with a mix of probably 20 households, yet nobody bats an eyelid, no enforcement of putting your mask on, I was genuinely saddened and it just brought it home to me that we are f’ d and that the majority do not listen, after 15 minutes I left. I was last on this thread in April and there was great unity now it’s the predictable back and forth bickering all the while the virus runs rampant again, a complete sh*t show, I’m out anyway no point getting into arguments, waste of energy, stay well all.

ArthurDayne

kippy wrote: »

We have been loosening resteictions for months now.
What is happening? Cases are increasing.
Why haven't deaths been increasing so far? Because most of the cases are in younger age groups.
What happens as cases continue to rise through community/unknown vectors? It is inevitable that older people will get this and die.
Why are cases rising? Because now enough people are following public health guidance.
Why will restrictions be reimposed. See laser sentence.(don't give people the option)

Could the state do more? Yes..testing and contact tracing is not where it needs to be.
More hospital beds and ICI beds could.have come on stream in the past 6 months.. not msny but a few.
The state politicians could have also chosen to lead by example.
And we have the issues back in March around nursing homes that could have been handled better.
But we are where we are. The irony I have seen this weekend locally is the rush of people to 'do a few things in town before restrictions are reintroduced'

This science is simple on stopping the spread.

All fair enough, but if we stop the spread, then gradually re-open....isn’t a rise in cases again inevitable?

If one was being cynical, you could say the government is playing a blinder in carefully ensuring that any failure of the policy is blamed on the people themselves, with the narrative having been cultivated that to question the policy is to advocate the death of old people. Keep the people blaming each other and they are less likely to question the strategy itself — and those that do question it can be neatly categorised into either the cold-hearted capitalists column or the crackpot column.

Flatten the curve >> re-open the country >> cases inevitably rise >> blame the people for being stupid >> impose restrictions again >> repeat. Is that the nature of our strategy? And if so, how long can that really be sustained?

topper75

average_runner wrote: »

Nope, just under control.

I've noticed that a few other pro-restriction posters on here use this term quite a bit. But it is vague beyond understanding. Is there a national number of infections involved, a per county number? If so, then we can just quarantine the sick - just as we always did through history.

CIARAN_BOYLE

At rehe end of the day we keep forgetting that the relaxation of restrictions need people to avoid risky behaviour. If people don't one or two big spreading events is probably enough to make us bring restrictions again.

It's going to be a cycle between restrictions and less restrictions until we get a vaccine.

hayoc

doireann08 wrote: »

whats the story with gyms? Thought they were only open for 1:1 tuition. Passed by one earlier ( its above my local shop). They were holding classes.

No - they are open for individual training only - as in, I can go to the gym by myself to work out by myself (as opposed to going to a class).

They are still holding school kids swim club meets in my gym (Dublin), but no classes at level 3 as far as I know.

robbiezero

Bigboldworld wrote: »

I’m not sure if you were in the same area of the park as me however I was in a slow moving q for the stables, nobody in the q was wearing a mask, all less than a few feet apart, surely that could not be deemed a good setup, surely that should be deemed as a large gathering with a mix of probably 20 households, yet nobody bats an eyelid, no enforcement of putting your mask on, I was genuinely saddened and it just brought it home to me that we are f’ d and that the majority do not listen, after 15 minutes I left. I was last on this thread in April and there was great unity now it’s the predictable back and forth bickering all the while the virus runs rampant again, a complete sh*t show, I’m out anyway no point getting into arguments, waste of energy, stay well all.

There is no requirement for masks for outdoor queuing I would have thought.
That queue for coffee or ice-cream is quite well set up and monitored. They only let a certain amount in the gate so that the queue doesn't overflow.

adocholiday

Just reading online about the potential for locking down some more counties including Wicklow. I can only speak for Wicklow on this but the county-level restriction is absolutely daft. The vast majority of cases in Wicklow (as per the official figures) are in Bray. Basically everywhere in Wicklow south of Bray has numbers on par with other counties. So they're going to punish people in places like Blessington and Arklow with a lockdown for no real reason. The same can be said for Dublin and Donegal and I'm sure for the other counties potentially subject to lockdown this week. I think if they really want people to buy into lockdowns and get on board with it they need to implement them at a much more granular level. Stopping people going from Arklow to Gorey isn't going to make a jot of impact to Wicklow's numbers, it will just frustrate people further and reduce compliance with the restrictions overall.

average_runner

topper75 wrote: »

I've noticed that a few other pro-restriction posters on here use this term quite a bit. But it is vague beyond understanding. Is there a national number of infections involved, a per county number? If so, then we can just quarantine the sick - just as we always did through history.

I am not pro lockdown but i am not pro just do whatever we want and feck every one else either.


Do you mean Mandatory quarantine by the government and not the isolation we have now?

average_runner

adocholiday wrote: »

Just reading online about the potential for locking down some more counties including Wicklow. I can only speak for Wicklow on this but the county-level restriction is absolutely daft. The vast majority of cases in Wicklow (as per the official figures) are in Bray. Basically everywhere in Wicklow south of Bray has numbers on par with other counties. So they're going to punish people in places like Blessington and Arklow with a lockdown for no real reason. The same can be said for Dublin and Donegal and I'm sure for the other counties potentially subject to lockdown this week. I think if they really want people to buy into lockdowns and get on board with it they need to implement them at a much more granular level. Stopping people going from Arklow to Gorey isn't going to make a jot of impact to Wicklow's numbers, it will just frustrate people further and reduce compliance with the restrictions overall.

Not sure they want us to buy into lockdowns, I believe they want us to control our own environment and will continue to do lockdowns until will we learn

adocholiday

average_runner wrote: »

Not sure they want us to buy into lockdowns, I believe they want us to control our own environment and will continue to do lockdowns will we learn

But it's clear that people being placed under lockdown in places like Bundoran are incredibly frustrated and disillusioned because of a spike in cases in Lifford. It's not a fair or sustainable approach.

Just as an example but my local pub reopened here last week. The publican remained closed until the reopening of 'wet pubs' and has all of the screens etc. in place and has enforced all limitations since the reopening. It's a tiny pub and even pre-Covid there'd rarely be more than a handful of people in there at any given time. Now he may have to close up again because of spikes in Bray about 40 minutes from where I live. This of course applies to restaurants and pubs all around Wicklow. It's just incredibly unfair.

hamburgham

Reading one of those emigrant’s experience pieces in the Irish Times, this is an Irish woman living in Madrid, dated 24 September 2020

“Considering we have the highest numbers of infections in Europe, Madrid is surprisingly running business as usual. Some areas have been put into regional lockdowns, but they tend to be in areas outside the city centre. Everyone here wears masks when they are out and about, but they don’t tend to take social distancing measures as importantly as we do. Most bars and restaurants remain busy with terraces full throughout the week, but everything closes down at 1pm for the night. In Madrid it feels like we just have to get on with things and learn to live with the virus.”

Life proceeding. Hello Stephen Donnelly? RTE? Pat Kenny?

average_runner

adocholiday wrote: »

But it's clear that people being placed under lockdown in places like Bundoran are incredibly frustrated and disillusioned because of a spike in cases in Lifford. It's not a fair or sustainable approach.

Just as an example but my local pub reopened here last week. The publican remained closed until the reopening of 'wet pubs' and has all of the screens etc. in place and has enforced all limitations since the reopening. It's a tiny pub and even pre-Covid there'd rarely be more than a handful of people in there at any given time. Now he may have to close up again because of spikes in Bray about 40 minutes from where I live. This of course applies to restaurants and pubs all around Wicklow. It's just incredibly unfair.

Sadly life is not fair either.



Maybe the rest of Wicklow need to send a message to Bray.
I am in lockdown in Dublin, had limited contacts, avoided unnecessary areas.


Some where down the line will learn, but we are slow learners in Ireland

Ginger n Lemon

average_runner wrote: »

I am not pro lockdown but i am not pro just do whatever we want and feck every one else either.


Do you mean Mandatory quarantine by the government and not the isolation we have now?

Welcome to the real world.

Why do you think there are so many homeless people dying on streets every week? Why do you think we have over 10,000 + people on trolleys waiting for hospital treatment for months on end?

Because majority of people, including politicians have caring attitude? Lets save everybody? :rolleyes:

average_runner

hamburgham wrote: »

Reading one of those emigrant’s experience pieces in the Irish Times, this is an Irish woman living in Madrid, dated 24 September 2020

“Considering we have the highest numbers of infections in Europe, Madrid is surprisingly running business as usual. Some areas have been put into regional lockdowns, but they tend to be in areas outside the city centre. Everyone here wears masks when they are out and about, but they don’t tend to take social distancing measures as importantly as we do. Most bars and restaurants remain busy with terraces full throughout the week, but everything closes down at 1pm for the night. In Madrid it feels like we just have to get on with things and learn to live with the virus.”

Life proceeding. Hello Stephen Donnelly? RTE? Pat Kenny?

Current restrictions for madrid
"

• Residents are only allowed to enter and exit the zones on work, educational, legal or medical grounds.
• Residents may move freely around their zones but may not step outside the perimeter without a legitimate reason. Police officers will carry out daily checks in the affected areas to ensure these restrictions are respected.
• Churches, mosques and synagogues must reduce their capacity to one third. Funeral services may be held with a maximum of 15 mourners outdoors and 10 indoors.
• Shops must reduce their capacity to 50% and bring their closing time forward to 10pm (except chemists’, health centres, vets, petrol stations and other shops regarded as essential).
• Restaurants, bars and cafés are no longer allowed to serve at the bar and must reduce capacity to 50%. They must close at 10pm, except if they are providing home delivery services.
• Academies and driving schools must also reduce their capacity to 50% and groups attending lessons may not exceed 6 people.
• Both indoor and outdoor sports facilities remain open although their capacity is reduced to 50% and the groups are limited to 6 people.
• Parks remain closed."

Number of areas in restrictions zone
"n the city of Madrid, the affected health areas are located in the city districts of Carabanchel (the health areas of Puerta Bonita, Vista Alegre and Guayaba), Usera (Almendrales, Las Calesas, Zofío, Orcasitas, Orcasur and San Fermín), Villaverde (San Andrés, San Cristóbal, El Espinillo and Los Rosales), Villa de Vallecas, Puente de Vallecas (Entrevías, Martínez de la Riva, San Diego, Numancia, Peña Prieta, Pozo del Tío Raimundo, Ángela Uriarte, Alcalá de Guadaira, Campo de la Paloma, Rafael Alberti and Federica Montseny), Vicálvaro (Vicálvaro-Artilleros) and Ciudad Lineal (Doctor Cirajas, García Noblejas, Ghandi, Daroca and La Elipa). The affected municipalities besides the capital are Fuenlabrada (the health areas of Alicante, Cuzco, Panaderas and Francia), Parla (San Blas and Isabel II), San Sebastián de los Reyes (Reyes Católicos), Getafe (Las Margaritas and Sánchez Morate), Alcobendas (Chopera and Miraflores), Alcorcón (Miguel Servet and Doctor Trueta) and the entire towns of Humanes and Moraleja de Enmedio."




Now how many Irish would you think would obey the zone rule since we can't obey the county rule right now?

average_runner

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Welcome to the real world.

Why do you think there are so many homeless people dying on streets every week? Why do you think we have over 10,000 + people on trolleys waiting for hospital treatment for months on end?

Because majority of people, including politicians have caring attitude? Lets save everybody? :rolleyes:

Well if everyone paid tax that would help. If we cut the dole payment after 12 months that would help.


But we don't, we love to give free houses away, free benefits away to people that are just a drain on our society

Plumbthedepths

average_runner wrote: »

Current restrictions for madrid
"

• Residents are only allowed to enter and exit the zones on work, educational, legal or medical grounds.
• Residents may move freely around their zones but may not step outside the perimeter without a legitimate reason. Police officers will carry out daily checks in the affected areas to ensure these restrictions are respected.
• Churches, mosques and synagogues must reduce their capacity to one third. Funeral services may be held with a maximum of 15 mourners outdoors and 10 indoors.
• Shops must reduce their capacity to 50% and bring their closing time forward to 10pm (except chemists’, health centres, vets, petrol stations and other shops regarded as essential).
• Restaurants, bars and cafés are no longer allowed to serve at the bar and must reduce capacity to 50%. They must close at 10pm, except if they are providing home delivery services.
• Academies and driving schools must also reduce their capacity to 50% and groups attending lessons may not exceed 6 people.
• Both indoor and outdoor sports facilities remain open although their capacity is reduced to 50% and the groups are limited to 6 people.
• Parks remain closed."

Number of areas in restrictions zone
"n the city of Madrid, the affected health areas are located in the city districts of Carabanchel (the health areas of Puerta Bonita, Vista Alegre and Guayaba), Usera (Almendrales, Las Calesas, Zofío, Orcasitas, Orcasur and San Fermín), Villaverde (San Andrés, San Cristóbal, El Espinillo and Los Rosales), Villa de Vallecas, Puente de Vallecas (Entrevías, Martínez de la Riva, San Diego, Numancia, Peña Prieta, Pozo del Tío Raimundo, Ángela Uriarte, Alcalá de Guadaira, Campo de la Paloma, Rafael Alberti and Federica Montseny), Vicálvaro (Vicálvaro-Artilleros) and Ciudad Lineal (Doctor Cirajas, García Noblejas, Ghandi, Daroca and La Elipa). The affected municipalities besides the capital are Fuenlabrada (the health areas of Alicante, Cuzco, Panaderas and Francia), Parla (San Blas and Isabel II), San Sebastián de los Reyes (Reyes Católicos), Getafe (Las Margaritas and Sánchez Morate), Alcobendas (Chopera and Miraflores), Alcorcón (Miguel Servet and Doctor Trueta) and the entire towns of Humanes and Moraleja de Enmedio."




Now how many Irish would you think would obey the zone rule since we can't obey the county rule right now?

Your constant moaning about other Irish people makes me wonder why you haven't emigrated. Surely there is a Nirvana somewhere in the world where everyone follows every rule without failure, that you could happily relocate to ?

polesheep

average_runner wrote: »

Sadly life is not fair either.



Maybe the rest of Wicklow need to send a message to Bray.
I am in lockdown in Dublin, had limited contacts, avoided unnecessary areas.


Some where down the line will learn, but we are slow learners in Ireland

I have never met anyone as condescending towards their own people as you are. You are also like the bad teacher who punishes the whole class for the behaviour of one errant child. I sincerely hope that you are not in a position of control over other people's lives.

polesheep

average_runner wrote: »

Well if everyone paid tax that would help. If we cut the dole payment after 12 months that would help.


But we don't, we love to give free houses away, free benefits away to people that are just a drain on our society

Ah, I see now. Over and out.