Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

sabat · 17-09-2020 11:36PM

deisedevil wrote: »

They're out to get us. It's all a conspiracy.

Most of the conspiracies possess a stronger logic than the official line.

deisedevil · 17-09-2020 11:37PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Dublin has 1.) Nowhere near the population density of Bergamo. 2.) nowhere near the age profile of Bergamo. So no, Dublin will not now, not ever be like Bergamo.

We're grand so. No need to worry about ICU numbers in this country.

Goldengirl · 17-09-2020 11:41PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Trump 2020 is it too?

Absolutely not! Are you ?

Goldengirl · 17-09-2020 11:45PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

We definitely dont need to lockdown with spare ICU beds available. From your logic we d be in lockdown everywinter.

Think you're a bit mixed up there , between available beds in hospital , which never seem to bother anyone here ever , or ICU beds , which are entirely different .

weldoninhio · 17-09-2020 11:55PM

deisedevil wrote: »

We're grand so. No need to worry about ICU numbers in this country.

Exactly. Chill out. Have a drink. Meet a friend.

deisedevil · 17-09-2020 11:59PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Exactly. Chill out. Have a drink. Meet a friend.

Leave the mask at home. Live a little.

weldoninhio · 18-09-2020 07:55AM

deisedevil wrote: »

Leave the mask at home. Live a little.

Masks are a placebo.

JRant · 18-09-2020 07:57AM

deisedevil wrote: »

The point I was making is that it is better to be proactive when there is a rise in cases heading to ICU than waiting until it hits 100 and then starting to try and hold back the tide. We'd have hospitals in Dublin like something from Bergamo. And why wouldn't we? Covid cases in in top of flu cases. Why not be proactive and make an attempt to avoid that scenario? It isn't incompetence or some attempts at something more sinister. It's just sensible precautions.

Okay but let's play this out logically. Rising numbers in ICU means we need to increase restrictions, fair point as we know the health system is a shambles. On the flip, when we had single digits numbers in ICU we should be as quick to lift restrictions.
The problem for me is that all the effort is put into the first scenario and they are very quick to impose restrictions. While at the other end of the scale they are far too slow in lifting them. The country should have been more or less fully open all summer with the exception of large concerts/sporting events with huge crowds. When I say fully open I mean, maintain the messaging around hand/cough hygiene etc.

facehugger99 · 18-09-2020 08:56AM

JRant wrote: »

Okay but let's play this out logically. Rising numbers in ICU means we need to increase restrictions, fair point as we know the health system is a shambles. On the flip, when we had single digits numbers in ICU we should be as quick to lift restrictions.
The problem for me is that all the effort is put into the first scenario and they are very quick to impose restrictions. While at the other end of the scale they are far too slow in lifting them. The country should have been more or less fully open all summer with the exception of large concerts/sporting events with huge crowds. When I say fully open I mean, maintain the messaging around hand/cough hygiene etc.

Agreed, but also why didn't we use the lockdown to increase our ICU capacity? That was supposed to be the entire reason of the lockdown - to buy the health service more time to deal with the virus.

According to the government clappy-seals it's just not possible, but Germany increased their ICU capacity by 45% (from an already high level) and France has more than doubled its ICU capacity.

What have we done with ICU capacity?

I'd invite someone to find out because that data doesn't appear to be available.

Here's Michael McDowell asking that very question recently in the Times.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-government-is-gambling-with-public-health-when-it-comes-to-icu-capacity-1.4355742

Why is this not the number 1 issue for media outlets instead of a hysteria-focused, breathless reporting on numbers and restrictions? - answers on a postcard please.

Ginger n Lemon · 18-09-2020 09:08AM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Think you're a bit mixed up there , between available beds in hospital , which never seem to bother anyone here ever , or ICU beds , which are entirely different .

I dont think so. First off youve been told in the past not to converse with me. Just a reminder.

2nd off - there are spare ICU beds now, over 30 of them. OP suggested that 5 ICU beds occupied with covid19 going to 14 ICU beds this week is worthy of additional lockdown measures. I said its nonsense - simple as. Country of 4,900,000 people like.

And yes there are no hospital beds available ever. Generally. In fact they dont even have a trolley to put you on to put you in the corridor, if this is our lockdown criterion then we ll be in lockdown every winter

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/patients-left-on-chairs-at-uhl-after-some-of-the-highest-admission-levels-ever-recorded-at-the-hospital-39537286.html

road_high · 18-09-2020 09:16AM

What is pat Kenny on about with masks? I’m not sure how it is in Dalkey but anywhere I go virtually every one wears them.

hmmm · 18-09-2020 09:20AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

Agreed, but also why didn't we use the lockdown to increase our ICU capacity? That was supposed to be the entire reason of the lockdown - to buy the health service more time to deal with the virus.

If I remember right from the start of the year our hospitals have some surge capacity and can create more beds.

Beds however are easy. Trained ICU staff can't be created in the space of months.

_Kaiser_ · 18-09-2020 09:33AM

road_high wrote: »

What is pat Kenny on about with masks? I’m not sure how it is in Dalkey but anywhere I go virtually every one wears them.

Same here (Midlands). It's a very visible reminder of the level of (generally unwarranted) fear out there over this thing.

I can't stand masks. Find them very uncomfortable even for the quick 20/30 mins in the shops every week. It actively puts me off shopping/spending more and I know I'm not the only one in that regard which can only be adding to pressure on businesses

Ginger n Lemon · 18-09-2020 09:34AM

The D day. If below goes ahead, there ll be tons more baristas and waiters joining them protests :rolleyes:

"Travel in and out of the county would be restricted if the proposals are adopted.

NPHET also believes cafes and restaurants should close at this level.

The level-three lockdown could see 1.4m people subject to a ban on social gatherings, both indoors or outdoors, with no sports matches or events allowed.

NPHET is also recommending that third-level colleges in Dublin should offer tuition online as much as possible."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40050926.html

Can someone explain why does NPHET believe cafes should close? Starbucks the new covid hot spots in Dublin?

Also why no sports matches or events allowed? Does this apply to children? They need to play sports.... . ?

road_high · 18-09-2020 09:37AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Same here (Midlands). It's a very visible reminder of the level of (generally unwarranted) fear out there over this thing.

I can't stand masks. Find them very uncomfortable even for the quick 20/30 mins in the shops every week. It actively puts me off shopping/spending more and I know I'm not the only one in that regard which can only be adding to pressure on businesses

Oh same. They make fcuk all difference but such are the levels of mania in society they act as a crutch for the nervy Coviders

Stormyteacup · 18-09-2020 09:45AM

hmmm wrote: »

If I remember right from the start of the year our hospitals have some surge capacity and can create more beds.

Beds however are easy. Trained ICU staff can't be created in the space of months.

Have they even a plan in action for increasing trained ICU staff?

And if Germany has increased ICU capacity by 45% is that just beds without staff?

I don’t know the answer to that but maybe someone in government/HSE could ask them how they did it?

Sorry forgot we go our own way - ‘early movers and fast actors’.

paw patrol · 18-09-2020 09:45AM

hamburgham wrote: »

Don’t worry.They tried to portray the anti water charges marchers as scroungers and wasters but the protestors were the actual WORKING people of all social backgrounds who had had their fill of paying for everything.

Despite knowing this, I still feel a bit embarrassed myself at telling anyone I’m going on the next march, feel I’ve to say in the next breath “but I’m not an anti vaxxer etc”. That’s how successful they’ve been at closing down debate and sidelining anyone who has an alternative view. Yet again, recommend the Daily Telegraph for a range of views on all this.

don't be embarrassed be proud , I'll be there .

I'm mostly apolitical (but anti progressive left and pro-low taxes) and if i've to march with hitlers ghost - so be it. My quality of life is worth a lot more than the insults from people whose opinion I don't value anyway.

polesheep · 18-09-2020 09:49AM

hmmm wrote: »

If I remember right from the start of the year our hospitals have some surge capacity and can create more beds.

Beds however are easy. Trained ICU staff can't be created in the space of months.

When there was pressure on ICUs earlier in the year there were staff from similar specialities trained up for ICU (It only took a few days as they were already mostly there). Most of them were not needed but they are still available should they be needed.

Captain_Crash · 18-09-2020 09:51AM

Honest question I’m trying to find the answer to. Restaurant owners are blaming house parties for the rise in cases, like everyone else to be fair and I’m wondering what actual % of new cases is attributed to house parties? Actually known to be and not “suspected” I can’t find data!

polesheep · 18-09-2020 09:51AM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Have they even a plan in action for increasing trained ICU staff?

And if Germany has increased ICU capacity by 45% is that just beds without staff?

I don’t know the answer to that but maybe someone in government/HSE could ask them how they did it?

Sorry forgot we go our own way - ‘early movers and fast actors’.

Yes and it has already been done.

Ginger n Lemon · 18-09-2020 09:53AM

Anyone knows exact time of MM meeting? And exact time of announcement (if any, remain positive)?

Stormyteacup · 18-09-2020 09:53AM

polesheep wrote: »

Yes and it has already been done.

So we are prepared for a surge? I thought I couldn’t be more baffled by the hysteria.

Turns out I can.

facehugger99 · 18-09-2020 09:56AM

polesheep wrote: »

Yes and it has already been done.

Where are the figures for this?

How much spare ICU capacity have we currently got?

How much has ICU capacity increased since March?

Charles Babbage · 18-09-2020 09:57AM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I dont think so. First off youve been told in the past not to converse with me. Just a reminder.

2nd off - there are spare ICU beds now, over 30 of them. OP suggested that 5 ICU beds occupied with covid19 going to 14 ICU beds this week is worthy of additional lockdown measures. I said its nonsense - simple as. Country of 4,900,000 people like.

5 to 14 is almost triple, now you might be able to make a case that the 14 can be dealt with but what happens when you triple again? The issue is not only that the current numbers are too high it is that the number is growing each week. Why do people persist in refusing to acknowledge this?

And yes there are no hospital beds available ever. Generally. In fact they dont even have a trolley to put you on to put you in the corridor, if this is our lockdown criterion then we ll be in lockdown every winter

We make do each winter, just about, so we don't need lockdown. That does not mean that adding a load of extra sick people this year is not a huge problem.

Assetbacked · 18-09-2020 09:59AM

Jesus, the media are having a field day with covid this morning. It's like they're expecting the sky to fall in. Having politicians rely on advisors who have tentacles in lobbying and the media is just a toxic mix as it creates a bubble. Nothing more evident of this toxicity than the covid hysteria. So many articles on it each day, you'd be forgiven for thinking there is a huge crisis here.

By way of reminder based on latest data. Since lockdown ended and we began reopening 17 weeks ago, we are now looking at an annual death rate of 679 "with" covid. 94% of those that died with covid had clinical underlying conditions and 93% were over the age of 65. 75% of cases are under the age of 65. It's not to say it isn't harmful but putting in the context of severely restricting social lives and the economy for something that isn't that harmful, even without a vaccine, is hysterical, illogical and tragic.

Ashleigh1986 · 18-09-2020 10:06AM

When all this hit Ireland in March I thought ...." The government and the medical management will fxxk this up somehow ".
7 months later even I am shocked by the low level of management regarding this virus .
Daily it's like a scene from " dads army " with mehole martin looking more and more like captain mainwaring .

average_runner · 18-09-2020 10:07AM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Honest question I’m trying to find the answer to. Restaurant owners are blaming house parties for the rise in cases, like everyone else to be fair and I’m wondering what actual % of new cases is attributed to house parties? Actually known to be and not “suspected” I can’t find data!

Majority of cases are associated with private households. It has been said in most interviews and in the document here: https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-19outbreaksclustersinireland/COVID-19%20Weekly%20Outbreak%20Highlights_Week372020_web%20version_v1.0_14092020.pdf

537 clusters in private houses.

Ginger n Lemon · 18-09-2020 10:10AM

Mehole Martin is very funny.

polesheep · 18-09-2020 10:12AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

Where are the figures for this?

How much spare ICU capacity have we currently got?

How much has ICU capacity increased since March?

I was referring to staff having been trained for working in ICU. I know this for a fact because my wife was trained as were most of her colleagues. They were not needed, however, and their own unit reopened. I don't believe that ICU is the big deal that it is made out to be. Most people who died with/of Covid never got near an ICU.

Penfailed · 18-09-2020 10:18AM

road_high wrote: »

What is pat Kenny on about with masks? I’m not sure how it is in Dalkey but anywhere I go virtually every one wears them.

I've noticed that in large supermarkets and shops almost every single person wears them. It's not the case in smaller shops or filling stations.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings