Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

yawhat?

facehugger99 wrote: »

From a balanced budget, we are now over €10billion in deficit and every day that figure grows.

In August Paschal Donohue, optimistically reassured us that we'd keep the deficit below €30bn. Gee thanks Paschal, I don't feel so bad now.

Meanwhile we are destroying thousands of viable business and have hundreds of thousands collecting an 'emergency payment'.

There is no vaccine in sight, there is no long term plan other than kick the can down the road with restrictions - temporary my arse.

It's good you're not worried about it but I suspect that's because the bill hasn't been presented to you yet. I'd imagine you'll be far less blasé when the penny drops with you and others like you, that are living in a fantasy land.

I’m not worried because I don’t worry about things that can’t be changed. You’re in denial if you think there is a way out this sh1tshow where we don’t all get presented with a bill.

Ginger n Lemon

yawhat? wrote: »

“Destroy the economy”, “flush the economy down the toilet”, a bit of hysteria creeping in here. They are just introducing additional temporary restrictions.

a bit like they introduced temporary lockdown for pubs back in March? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

farce.

Assetbacked

yawhat? wrote: »

There will be economic damage no matter what way you go. People don’t want to catch Covid and will alter their behaviour and reduce their economic activity if it spreads widely. There is no magic course of action that will significantly reduce the economic damage in the absence of a vaccine.

A vaccine is the carrot on a stick for the gullible masses. There needs to also be a herd immunity strategy as a fallback, which means not overreacting to those under the age of 65 getting covid as data shows it is pretty much of negligible impact to them, not really worse than the flu.

The only reason the economic impact of further easing restrictions would be bad is due to the fear and igorance created by the media to the facts which show that those of economically productive age and under 18s are hardly impacted by covid. There is a fear and paranoia among a lot of people of getting it when they are in the "of minimal risk" category.

The government are fearful of looking like idiots and hysteria-merchants by admitting there was an overreaction to the whole thing, which is now being felt in the continued severe economic destruction they are causing to the country. Let's be clear, the only reason we had so many deaths was due to NPHET's fumbling advice on nursing homes and masks for healthcare workers. They should've been disbanded post-lockdown for this shameful incompetence and fcuk up.

Ginger n Lemon

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ironically, the people, whos lives are allegedly being "saved" from Covid will also be pushing up daisies long before the full effect of the restrictions are felt.

Harsh but reality is harsh Im afraid

welcome back. missed you.

see museums in Dublin shut down in level 3. Fintan international evidence suggests........ Im very concerned. I have a cause for concern. :rolleyes:

yawhat?

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

a bit like they introduced temporary lockdown for pubs back in March? :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

farce.

Lots of pubs have reopened, and those that haven’t can reopen from a Monday - except in a Dublin. Sounds temporary to me.

facehugger99

yawhat? wrote: »

I’m not worried because I don’t worry about things that can’t be changed. You’re in denial if you think there is a way out this sh1tshow where we don’t all get presented with a bill.

You do realise bills come in different sizes?

Ginger n Lemon

yawhat? wrote: »

Lots of pubs have reopened, and those that haven’t can reopen from a Monday - except in a Dublin. Sounds temporary to me.

Wet pubs in Dublin in lockdown for 7 months sounds temporary?

Stormyteacup

yawhat? wrote: »

There will be economic damage no matter what way you go. People don’t want to catch Covid and will alter their behaviour and reduce their economic activity if it spreads widely. There is no magic course of action that will significantly reduce the economic damage in the absence of a vaccine.

No magic needed, just leaders that can boost economic confidence by dispelling the terror of a virus that evidence has borne out is not dangerous to the vast majority of our population.

yawhat?

facehugger99 wrote: »

You do realise bills come in different sizes?

I do, yeah. And I’d be very confident that the bill would be considerably higher following your suggested course of action.

yawhat?

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Wet pubs in Dublin in lockdown for 7 months sounds temporary?

Sorry, is it permanent? I must have missed that.

stephenjmcd

yawhat? wrote: »

Sorry, is it permanent? I must have missed that.

Fair few will be permanent alright.

Wouldn't exactly call constantly having your reopening day pushed out a temporary closure. Ah sure just another 3 weeks, and another 3 more.

Ginger n Lemon

yawhat? wrote: »

Sorry, is it permanent? I must have missed that.

Is there a timeline for wet pubs in Dublin to re open?

Stop acting like you have no idea whats happening. And please remember, when business bankrupts - its permanent.

never_mind

yawhat? wrote: »

Sorry, is it permanent? I must have missed that.

Well without any real indiction of when they are going to open I can only imagine that publicans feel that it is permanent. But please, do tell us when they are to open so we know how temporary it is?

walus

facehugger99 wrote: »

Hospitals are not being over-whelmed and the median age of those dying is higher than life-expectancy.

What are you expecting - an end to death?

I agree, however the media tell a different story: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-dublin-hospitals-under-significant-pressure-as-county-set-for-level-3-1.4358276

What were they doing these past 4-6 month to prepare? Went on holidays? Oh, sorry they indeed did just that...

Somewhere along the line, I feel like we have all lost sight of the fact that we originally locked down based on models and predictions that a huge number of Irish would potentially die. Leo even mentioned potentially 250000.

Over half a year later... Still some way to go until 2000 deaths. 79 in hospital. 14 in ICU. And we even admitted that deaths are highly overstated. And also include people that happened to catch Covid on their death beds.

Has there ever been a bigger over reaction in the this countries history? Future generations will curse us for this.

facehugger99

yawhat? wrote: »

I do, yeah. And I’d be very confident that the bill would be considerably higher following your suggested course of action.

Gosh, if only there was a country in Europe who didn't follow our approach that we could compare ourselves to

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/sweden-s-economy-shrank-less-than-euro-zone-s-at-height-of-pandemic-1.4322531

I'd wager any money Sweden will come out of this far better placed than we will - they have already turned the corner and are rapidly moving away from us in terms of economic performance. You're confidence is entirely misplaced and based on nothing other than ignorance.

walus

facehugger99 wrote: »

Gosh, if only there was a country in Europe who didn't follow our approach that we could compare ourselves to

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/sweden-s-economy-shrank-less-than-euro-zone-s-at-height-of-pandemic-1.4322531

I'd wager any money Sweden will come out of this far better placed than we will - they have already turned the corner and are rapidly moving away from us in terms of economic performance. You're confidence is entirely misplaced and based on nothing other than ignorance.

Nordea report suggests Sweden will bounce back by July 2021.

average_runner

walus wrote: »

Nordea report suggests Sweden will bounce back by July 2021.

Most nordic business experts say the Sweden Economy will not bounce back fully but by 4% instead by end of 2021

Nermal

yawhat? wrote: »

So do we just hope hospitals dont become overwhelmed? What if they do become overwhelmed? What’s the plan then?

Requisition capacity from private hospitals.
NHS Nightingale-style build of additional capacity.
Triage.

Nabber

Imagine now if a deadly virus does hit us in the next 20years. I don’t think it will be taken seriously by the public until it’s too late.

Referencing the Spanish Flu is also really disingenuous, that caused the death of many 20-40 years old healthy folks. We know that this strain is deadly to the vulnerable, who happen to be vulnerable to all virus strains. Covid is not a unique killer amongst the vulnerable.

We had mismanaged old folks homes which increased the figures, to add insult those who passed away due to mismanagement are now the ammunition for these lockdowns.

What of the collateral damage to mental health, cancer victims ect...

The long term out come is that what ever measures are required to pay of the debt we have Acquired will be disproportionately Negative to lower/working class families.
The divide between rich and poor will grow.

Ginger n Lemon

walus wrote: »

Nordea report suggests Sweden will bounce back by July 2021.

While we'll have 15% + unemployment for years to come. 1 in 6 unemployed. (before todays "measures")

Paschal Donohue take a bow.

Allinall

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Somewhere along the line, I feel like we have all lost sight of the fact that we originally locked down based on models and predictions that a huge number of Irish would potentially die. Leo even mentioned potentially 250000.

Over half a year later... Still some way to go until 2000 deaths. 79 in hospital. 14 in ICU. And we even admitted that deaths are highly overstated. And also include people that happened to catch Covid on their death beds.

Has there ever been a bigger over reaction in the this countries history? Future generations will curse us for this.

Shows the lockdown worked as intended.

Assetbacked

Deleted User wrote: »

Somewhere along the line, I feel like we have all lost sight of the fact that we originally locked down based on models and predictions that a huge number of Irish would potentially die. Leo even mentioned potentially 250000.

Over half a year later... Still some way to go until 2000 deaths. 79 in hospital. 14 in ICU. And we even admitted that deaths are highly overstated. And also include people that happened to catch Covid on their death beds.

Has there ever been a bigger over reaction in the this countries history? Future generations will curse us for this.

Is the last 17 weeks (since lockdown ended) a decent period to use as a sample to plot an annual death rate?

If so, 679 will die annually with covid. By comparison, 2-500 die annually of the flu (even with a vaccine), 300-400 suicides happen each year and around 150 die on the roads each year.

To respond to those that say "yeah, well these aren't contagious". Well, actually, where is the direct link to our deaths and a group of lads in a nightclub or kids playing in school? Our deaths are directly linked to the treatment settings themselves. By indirectly linking these settings to covid deaths then you can also indirectly link other activities to suicides, road deaths and particularly the flu in the same manner!

Charles Babbage

Assetbacked wrote: »

Put granny at home and have super valu deliver her the shopping, sign her up to zoom with her mates for bingo parties and get her an iPad with RTE player. Just for a few weeks. This will help to stop it spreading to the vulnerable.

This may save some deaths, it does nothing to reduce the number of cases.

facehugger99 wrote:

I'd wager any money Sweden will come out of this far better placed than we will - they have already turned the corner and are rapidly moving away from us in terms of economic performance. You're confidence is entirely misplaced and based on nothing other than ignorance.

Sweden's GDP fell 8.6% during the second quarter of the year,
Denmark 7.4% fall
Finland 3.2% fall
Ireland 6.1% fall (or 7.4% if you prefer GNP)


Yes, Sweden is moving away from us, in a downward direction.

I won't make any observations about where the ignorance lies.

Ginger n Lemon

Allinall wrote: »

Shows the lockdown worked as intended.

But from that logic Sweden were predicted to have 96k + deaths by June. Mid September still not even 6k, they did not do a lockdown. So lockdowns are not needed?

Probably different demographics though right? They have superior Nordic genes right? They are magical people with 100% obedience while we Irish are beyond stupid and if given an opportunity would lick every door handle? :rolleyes:

FintanMcluskey

Nabber wrote: »

Imagine now if a deadly virus does hit us in the next 20years. I don’t think it will be taken seriously by the public until it’s too late.

Referencing the Spanish Flu is also really disingenuous, that caused the death of many 20-40 years old healthy folks. We know that this strain is deadly to the vulnerable, who happen to be vulnerable to all virus strains. Covid is not a unique killer amongst the vulnerable.

We had mismanaged old folks homes which increased the figures, to add insult those who passed away due to mismanagement are now the ammunition for these lockdowns.

What of the collateral damage to mental health, cancer victims ect...

The long term out come is that what ever measures are required to pay of the debt we have Acquired will be disproportionately Negative to lower/working class families.
The divide between rich and poor will grow.

Imagine what will happen when a dangerous virus sweeps the globe.

The overreaction to the "cold of 2020" will be the cause of the boy who cried wolf in the future.

Assetbacked

Charles Babbage wrote: »

This may save some deaths, it does nothing to reduce the number of cases.

Ah, so you're a flat-curver. Presumably there's some extremist thread around here for your kind?

FintanMcluskey

Assetbacked wrote: »

Presumably there's some extremist thread around here for your kind?

Stay away from that den of misery.

Allinall

Allinall wrote: »

Shows the lockdown worked as intended.

You think we'd have 248000 extra deaths without lockdown?

Ginger n Lemon

Speaking on Newstalk Breakfast, Catherine Martin said that the government was aware of the sacrifices it may ask people to make today.

"Any decision about that will be taken by government will not be taken lightly. But obviously health has to come first.

"The number of cases of Covid, and the level of hospitalisations and deaths we've been told will increase exponentially in the coming weeks unless we take measures know to reduce our contacts.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40050926.html

THAT THERE. THAT IN BOLD. Rings a bell? March 2020? Anyone? Dejavu. The groundhog day. Leo's announcement of estimated extra 50k + deaths imminent.

I also love the "obviously health has to come first". This individual, inept really, doesnt seem to understand that having 15% + unemployment will cause huge damage to peoples health and lives. Lives will be lost through suicide and lack of financial ability to afford even a visit to GP, causing many more deaths than covid ever could. What an absolute disgrace.

Irish people are being treated like slowest kid in the class. Well lighting does not strike twice. October 3rd.