Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

facehugger99

Charles Babbage wrote: »

This may save some deaths, it does nothing to reduce the number of cases.







Sweden's GDP fell 8.6% during the second quarter of the year,
Denmark 7.4% fall
Finland 3.2% fall
Ireland 6.1% fall (or 7.4% if you prefer GNP)


Yes, Sweden is moving away from us, in a downward direction.

I won't make any observations about where the ignorance lies.

You're info is out of date and you're wrong

Sweden are currently on course for a 4% fall in GDP this year.

Next year they will be better again and we won't be within an ass' roar of them


By all means continue to embarrass yourself though.

Ginger n Lemon

facehugger99 wrote: »

You're info is out of date and you're wrong

Sweden are currently on course for a 4% fall in GDP this year.

Next year they will be better again and we won't be within an ass' roar of them


By all means continue to embarrass yourself though.

Mmmmm. I wonder if people understand the difference between 4% GDP fall and 8.5% fall. No. Vast majority dont. Vast majority do like to clap for HSE and think that they save lives by eating dominos at home. Below announcement does not include the "measures" that could be announced today btw

Irish economy to shrink by 8.5% in 2020 before 2021 recovery
The European Commission has said that Ireland's GDP is projected to contract by 8.5% in 2020

drunkmonkey

I'd love to box the head off these pair, let's see who makes it to Number 1 next month, Van the man or Jedward.

https://twitter.com/planetjedward/status/1306901107487186944?s=20

Open the Pubs

I fear our suicide rate will be going up through this coming long winter especially with such harsh restrictions and economic meltdown. It's time people started looking out for their fellow citizens who's lives are being destroyed by all this. Because clearly the government aren't going to help us, only harm us further.

Open the Pubs

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'd love to box the head off these pair, let's see who makes it to Number 1 next month, Van the man or Jedward.

https://twitter.com/planetjedward/status/1306901107487186944?s=20

There was a post on here a few weeks ago about Muireann O'Connell that totally sums up these charlatans and has beens Jedward and their new found politics:

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

What to do to stay relevant when when the phone stops ringing. Interesting observation that Joe Rogan made in a recent interview, "They find a pattern, a way they have to talk and the things they have to talk about and they lock into those things with no deviation, they find whatever the line is that Hollywood wants, it's always left, its always progressive, it's always super-woke, and they f***ing ride that line like a railroad train, just 'choo choo', no deviation. It's so obvious."

I wouldn't be surprised at all if John and Edward's twitter account was actually ran by their manager or some PR person. It works as people are talking about them for the first time in many years.

HeidiHeidi

Open the Pubs wrote: »

I fear our suicide rate will be going up through this coming long winter especially with such harsh restrictions and economic meltdown. It's time people started looking out for their fellow citizens who's lives are being destroyed by all this. Because clearly the government aren't going to help us, only harm us further.

Should we not all be looking out for our vulnerable fellow citizens anyway


Or is that another thing that some want to abdicate to "someone else/the gubbermint"?

drunkmonkey

Open the Pubs wrote: »

I fear our suicide rate will be going up through this coming long winter especially with such harsh restrictions and economic meltdown. It's time people started looking out for their fellow citizens who's lives are being destroyed by all this. Because clearly the government aren't going to help us, only harm us further.

This will be finished by the end of November, people won't take it any longer.
Government can only get away with this for so long and they know it, hence NPHET being demoted.
If the protests get to the 10,000+ mark they've a big problem on their hands.

Stormyteacup

Beginning to feel like Dublin is being prepped for bad news. Tourism Minister saying any decision taken will ultimately save lives, articles about Dublin hospitals under pressure, tweet from Philip Nolan, and all generally ‘very concerned’.

NPHET pushing hard.

Have a bad feeling, hope am wrong. If they do it will existing legislation allow travel restrictions be enforced?

Happydays2020

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Mmmmm. I wonder if people understand the difference between 4% GDP fall and 8.5% fall. No. Vast majority dont. Vast majority do like to clap for HSE and think that they save lives by eating dominos at home. Below announcement does not include the "measures" that could be announced today btw

Irish economy to shrink by 8.5% in 2020 before 2021 recovery
The European Commission has said that Ireland's GDP is projected to contract by 8.5% in 2020

And our GNI will contract by about 15 - 20%.

drunkmonkey

Open the Pubs wrote: »

There was a post on here a few weeks ago about Muireann O'Connell that totally sums up these charlatans and has beens Jedward and their new found politics:

I wouldn't be surprised at all if John and Edward's twitter account was actually ran by their manager or some PR person. It works as people are talking about them for the first time in many years.

I hope Liam Gallagher gives them a good hiding...they are proper clowns..

Ginger n Lemon

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Beginning to feel like Dublin is being prepped for bad news. Tourism Minister saying any decision taken will ultimately save lives, articles about Dublin hospitals under pressure, tweet from Philip Nolan, and all generally ‘very concerned’.

NPHET pushing hard.

Have a bad feeling, hope am wrong. If they do it will existing legislation allow travel restrictions be enforced?

Well govt's solicitors representing them against Ryanair in on-going case stated that travel in and out of the country guidance was purely advisory and didnt have any binding legal effect.

Now thats travel in and out of the country (which is, one would think, more serious than 1 person going from Dublin to Wexford county). Make of that what you will.

TRANQUILLO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NynUwxOct_8

Andrew Neil interviews Swedish covid pandemic response advisor Anders Tegnell.

Very engaging and interesting. No political spin or skin in the game.


Hes ten times the man of your Donnelly's et al who wont even go on radio in Cork to talk about covid for fear of a grilling.

TRANQUILLO

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I hope Liam Gallagher gives them a good hiding...they are proper clowns..

The absolute state of that.

Open the Pubs

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Should we not all be looking out for our vulnerable fellow citizens anyway


Or is that another thing that some want to abdicate to "someone else/the gubbermint"?

I'm taking about all citizens, not just vulnerable however you define that. Citizens who's jobs and business have been eliminated by the government while other so called citizens in safe pensionable jobs cheerlead this on and attempt to minimise the damage done. The "I'm alright Jack" brigade cheerleading more and more restrictions while their own jobs are safe.

Not sure what you mean by that last line, it is the government who is responsible for the economic and social damage being wrecked. They are setting the restrictions and laws. You seem to be implying people are responsible for their own business's and jobs being destroyed by the state. Too much RTE news perhaps.

Ginger n Lemon

Bars, restaurants, gyms and households are all contributing to the spread of coronavirus in Dublin and unless we stop people mixing in these settings it will “spiral out of control” , the chair of the National Public Health Emergency Team’s epidemiological modelling advisory group, Prof Philip Nolan, said on Friday.

In a series of Tweets on Friday, Prof Nolan explained the decision of NPHET to recommend that indoor dining be banned and pubs not serving food should stay closed saying: “We know that in Dublin at least one in three cases are community transmission. Where is this happening? Wherever we mix socially: our houses, gyms, bars, restaurants. Sadly, unless we stop mixing in these settings, we know the disease will spiral out of control.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-will-spiral-out-of-control-if-we-don-t-stop-people-mixing-in-dublin-s-bars-and-restaurants-says-nphet-expert-1.4358304?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fhealth%2Fcovid-19-will-spiral-out-of-control-if-we-don-t-stop-people-mixing-in-dublin-s-bars-and-restaurants-says-nphet-expert-1.4358304

What an absolute deplorable "analysis". You see this is whats wrong with the great "NPHET". They just assume random shi* and close businesses for good measure "just to be certain". Happy seals will be clapping - but anyone with a bit of brain power will see that they have 0 idea where "community transmission" actually occurs and can easily guess that it COULD occur on the train. or in a pub. or at home.

Well NPHET have a simple advice - shut everything down. Fkin clowns. How are they still there?? Whats "evolving"? What isnt government able to do / understand? Dont we have a health minister for christ sake? WTF does he do?

PS why is this "professor" tweeting on Friday? Nothing else to do? Seriously I rest my case.

DangerScouse

drunkmonkey wrote: »

This will be finished by the end of November, people won't take it any longer.
Government can only get away with this for so long and they know it, hence NPHET being demoted.
If the protests get to the 10,000+ mark they've a big problem on their hands.

10,000 There was circa 150 spacers at the last one and the absolute cut of them. Not a bar of soap was harmed in the making of that thing.

Ginger n Lemon

DangerScouse wrote: »

10,000 There was circa 150 spacers at the last one and the absolute cut of them. Not a bar of soap was harmed in the making of that thing.

the 2000 + protesting last saturday? Or are you talking about Pro mask protest? Now that one did probably have 100 people and no soap was hurt in the process.

The other one though...

"Woman assaulted during Covid protest in Dublin"

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0913/1164933-dublin-protest-assault/

Have you left your house recently? walked around Dublin city centre? Its very dire.

Charles Babbage

Assetbacked wrote: »

Ah, so you're a flat-curver. Presumably there's some extremist thread around here for your kind?

The issue is not a flat curve it is that there is currently a rapidly increasing curve. You cannot have a curve increasing each week without damaging consequences for both the health service and the economy.

Happydays2020 wrote: »

And our GNI will contract by about 15 - 20%.

Stop making up numbers. As i posted above GNP declined in Q2 by 7.4% in Q2 and recovered a lot of that since then.

There is a problem, but gross exaggeration does not help anyone.

TRANQUILLO

Assetbacked wrote: »

Jesus, the media are having a field day with covid this morning. It's like they're expecting the sky to fall in. Having politicians rely on advisors who have tentacles in lobbying and the media is just a toxic mix as it creates a bubble. Nothing more evident of this toxicity than the covid hysteria. So many articles on it each day, you'd be forgiven for thinking there is a huge crisis here.

By way of reminder based on latest data. Since lockdown ended and we began reopening 17 weeks ago, we are now looking at an annual death rate of 679 "with" covid. 94% of those that died with covid had clinical underlying conditions and 93% were over the age of 65. 75% of cases are under the age of 65. It's not to say it isn't harmful but putting in the context of severely restricting social lives and the economy for something that isn't that harmful, even without a vaccine, is hysterical, illogical and tragic.

Thats it in a nutshell for me....and I struggle to understand how people have an alternative view to what you've just posted.

I remember Eamon Dunphy talking about the new method of statistical analysis in football such as "expected goals" and "expected saves" etc as new metrics to judge a player. His response was " ive got eyes, and ive got ears" . he can see when a player is good or bad and doesn't need mumbo jumbo to reinforce a view.

So following on from Dunphys thesis:

In my own life anecdotally I can tell you this. I am currently unemployed but have worked in aviation for 20 years until covid hit. I have many friends and acquaintances from my career in Germany, Italy, France the UK and Spain. Id be in WhatsApp groups with a good few of them. Between us we know nobody who died from this virus. Nor do we know anyone who caught it and was bedridden for weeks recovering. No one in my family in ireland has been sick from it nor do I have any extended family or friends who have lost anyone or been laid low by this. I live in Dublin.

Now all of the above is just my life. I understand it will be rebutted my many on here who will claim to have lost 7 aunties and 4 uncles from covid. And ill just have to take it on trust. But you cant make me afraid of something that is not causing me fear. Im angry with the government. im angry with the media. Im angry at bad faith discourse. Im angry with goal post shifting.

What i do fear is being unemployed for much longer, my mental health. The ability to start a family and buy a house and if i have no money going forward i wont be able to look after my mother when she is genuinely old and vulnerable.

If this was flesh eating virus and was evidently tangible and my mates were dropping like flies id stay in my house eating tinned beans while wrapped in a 3m white hazmat suit for the next 2 years.

I just don't see the threat. The hospitals are doing grand. Africa and India are tipping away with below average infrastructure, standards and hygiene compared to "the west". Where are the piles of bodies?

In my barstool opinion its been a gross over reaction, disproportional to the risk and we (the populace) are guilt tripping each other and policing each other.

When furlough ends ....so will obedience. Money talks. And that's not even mentioning the next few budgets....

DangerScouse

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

the 2000 + protesting last saturday? Or are you talking about Pro mask protest? Now that one did probably have 100 people and no soap was hurt in the process.

The other one though...

"Woman assaulted during Covid protest in Dublin"

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0913/1164933-dublin-protest-assault/

Have you left your house recently? walked around Dublin city centre? Its very dire.

Yeah i was only in there this morning dropping off something on my motorbike.

Great to see so many masks and people going about their daily business looking after their fellow citizens.

ElektroToad

Anyone else fuming? I just watched the lunchtime news and I wish I hadn't.

Can't believe the Govt is seriously considering economic self-mutilation to Dublin's hospitality industry.... This is gonna be an expensive mistake of delaying the inevitable for our shambles of a health service.

I hope Paschal has enough cash tucked away in the welfare budget to handle another spike in long term unemployment. At least the poor sods in the aviation sector won't be alone in dole queues for long....:mad:

Charles Babbage

facehugger99 wrote: »

You're info is out of date and you're wrong

Sweden are currently on course for a 4% fall in GDP this year.

Next year they will be better again and we won't be within an ass' roar of them


By all means continue to embarrass yourself though.

I am not the one embarrassing myself, Ireland is currently on course for a 2% fall in GDP.

There is every likelihood of a general improvement in 2021 and Ireland will do better than Sweden then too.

But facts seem to be unwelcome in this thread.

ElektroToad wrote: »

Can't believe the Govt is seriously considering economic self-mutilation to Dublin's hospitality industry.... This is gonna be an expensive mistake of delaying the inevitable for our shambles of a health service.

We often hear on this thread the the tragedy of people not being treated, so I would have expected you to welcome some measures to reduce the pressure on the health service.

bucketybuck

drunkmonkey wrote: »

This will be finished by the end of November, people won't take it any longer.

It won't be the end of November, it will take longer than that but the big irony in all of the discussions and decisions so far, is that the endgame in all of this is pretty much inevitable.

Histories quickest vaccine is a pipedream and eventually the worlds governments will have no choice left but to open up society and try to co-exist with the virus. By next year there will be no more lockdowns, no more pandemic payments, no more flattening curves, no more daily reports, no more threat levels, just society finally recognising and accepting that they cannot hide from these viruses and so getting on with their lives as best they can. Measures like social distancing and hand washing will become part of culture but all the government mandated measures? No.

People can't see that now, it is still too fresh and new but all the signs are there. Unfortunately it would take a very strong government to make the decision to act accordingly with this, so we need to play out all the failed lockdowns and white elephant health measures before the masses finally come to realise what is happening. We could save a lot of hardship by making those hard decisions now but instead we have to play this out until the inevitable.

paw patrol

ElektroToad wrote: »

.

I hope Paschal has enough cash tucked away in the welfare budget to handle another spike in long term unemployment. At least the poor sods in the aviation sector won't be alone in dole queues for long....:mad:

spending your future earning like a drug addict looking for tic

Ginger n Lemon

Charles Babbage wrote: »

I am not the one embarrassing myself, Ireland is currently on course for a 2% fall in GDP.

There is every likelihood of a general improvement in 2021 and Ireland will do better than Sweden then too.

But facts seem to be unwelcome in this thread.

Any link?

Below is the link for 8.5% predicted fall this year. (before today's announcement)

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0707/1151812-european-commissions-irish-forecast/#:~:text=Irish%20economy%20to%20shrink%20by%208.5%25%20in%202020%20before%202021%20recovery&text=The%20European%20Commission%20has%20said,contract%20by%208.5%25%20in%202020.&text=It%20said%20that%20fiscal%20stimulus,the%20decline%20in%20real%20GDP.

CruelSummer

So looks like I’m going to be streaming and downloading Van Morrison for the Autumn...

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/entertainment-arts-54194498?__twitter_impression=true

deisedevil

JRant wrote: »

Okay but let's play this out logically. Rising numbers in ICU means we need to increase restrictions, fair point as we know the health system is a shambles. On the flip, when we had single digits numbers in ICU we should be as quick to lift restrictions.
The problem for me is that all the effort is put into the first scenario and they are very quick to impose restrictions. While at the other end of the scale they are far too slow in lifting them. The country should have been more or less fully open all summer with the exception of large concerts/sporting events with huge crowds. When I say fully open I mean, maintain the messaging around hand/cough hygiene etc.

Yes, to a large extent I agree with you. It's amazing though the amount of people that thanked your post don't agree with the current restrictions being in place with rising ICU numbers.

Charles Babbage

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Any link?

https://www.davy.ie/research/public/article.htm?id=ST2_26311_1.xml.htm

Jizique

bucketybuck wrote: »

It won't be the end of November, it will take longer than that but the big irony in all of the discussions and decisions so far, is that the endgame in all of this is pretty much inevitable.

Histories quickest vaccine is a pipedream and eventually the worlds governments will have no choice left but to open up society and try to co-exist with the virus. By next year there will be no more lockdowns, no more pandemic payments, no more flattening curves, no more daily reports, no more threat levels, just society finally recognising and accepting that they cannot hide from these viruses and so getting on with their lives as best they can. Measures like social distancing and hand washing will become part of culture but all the government mandated measures? No.

People can't see that now, it is still too fresh and new but all the signs are there. Unfortunately it would take a very strong government to make the decision to act accordingly with this, so we need to play out all the failed lockdowns and white elephant health measures before the masses finally come to realise what is happening. We could save a lot of hardship by making those hard decisions now but instead we have to play this out until the inevitable.

I know info from China is limited but how on earth have they managed to return to a high level of normality to quickly?

Thierry12

bucketybuck wrote: »

It won't be the end of November, it will take longer than that but the big irony in all of the discussions and decisions so far, is that the endgame in all of this is pretty much inevitable.

Histories quickest vaccine is a pipedream and eventually the worlds governments will have no choice left but to open up society and try to co-exist with the virus. By next year there will be no more lockdowns, no more pandemic payments, no more flattening curves, no more daily reports, no more threat levels, just society finally recognising and accepting that they cannot hide from these viruses and so getting on with their lives as best they can. Measures like social distancing and hand washing will become part of culture but all the government mandated measures? No.

People can't see that now, it is still too fresh and new but all the signs are there. Unfortunately it would take a very strong government to make the decision to act accordingly with this, so we need to play out all the failed lockdowns and white elephant health measures before the masses finally come to realise what is happening. We could save a lot of hardship by making those hard decisions now but instead we have to play this out until the inevitable.

I don't think they can let it run free

Not that the virus can't be lived with, it's just we will run out of hospital beds

Hospilsation and ICU need has tripled in the last few weeks with a small bump in cases

It's a mild virus but if we get to 1000 cases a day and only 2% need hospilsation and 0.5% need ICU, that's 20 people a day in hospital and 4 in ICU every day, we will run out of space fast.

If we had a functioning health service let it run free for sure, survival rate is 99.5%+

Hire clowns, get a circus, that's who we elected