Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

facehugger99

polesheep wrote: »

I was referring to staff having been trained for working in ICU. I know this for a fact because my wife was trained as were most of her colleagues. They were not needed, however, and their own unit reopened. I don't believe that ICU is the big deal that it is made out to be.

It is one of the primary reasons being used by Government/NPHET to justify restrictions, yet there appears to be no information in the public domain as to what we have done to increase capacity in 6months of restrictions.

polesheep wrote: »

Most people who died with/of Covid never got near an ICU.

Most people who died with Covid were going to die fairly soon anyway. The median age of death is higher than average life expectancy. The Government and HSE managed to wipe these people out at the start of the crisis through their own chronic mismanagement of the nursing homes.
Their deaths are now being used as quasi-justification for the lunacy of the current response to the virus by a bunch of arse-covering cowards.

It's galling to witness.

DangerScouse

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

When all this hit Ireland in March I thought ...." The government and the medical management will fxxk this up somehow ".
7 months later even I am shocked by the low level of management regarding this virus .
Daily it's like a scene from " dads army " with mehole martin looking more and more like captain mainwaring .

Agreed. They definitely aren't taking it seriously enough.

yawhat?

facehugger99 wrote: »

It is one of the primary reasons being used by Government/NPHET to justify restrictions, yet there appears to be no information in the public domain as to what we have done to increase capacity in 6months of restrictions.




Most people who died with Covid were going to die fairly soon anyway. The median age of death is higher than average life expectancy. The Government and HSE managed to wipe these people out at the start of the crisis through their own chronic mismanagement of the nursing homes.
Their deaths are now being used as quasi-justification for the lunacy of the current response to the virus by a bunch of arse-covering cowards.

It's galling to witness.

What’s your solution for dealing with the increase in cases?

Assetbacked

yawhat? wrote: »

What’s your solution for dealing with the increase in cases?

Put granny at home and have super valu deliver her the shopping, sign her up to zoom with her mates for bingo parties and get her an iPad with RTE player. Just for a few weeks. This will help to stop it spreading to the vulnerable.

dalyboy

facehugger99 wrote: »

It is one of the primary reasons being used by Government/NPHET to justify restrictions, yet there appears to be no information in the public domain as to what we have done to increase capacity in 6months of restrictions.




Most people who died with Covid were going to die fairly soon anyway. The median age of death is higher than average life expectancy. The Government and HSE managed to wipe these people out at the start of the crisis through their own chronic mismanagement of the nursing homes.
Their deaths are now being used as quasi-justification for the lunacy of the current response to the virus by a bunch of arse-covering cowards.

It's galling to witness.

What’s salt in the wounds for me is this p1ss take sales pitch they’re making to the public titled “LIVING with covid”. It’s the exact opposite of the word living , additionally it’s just a code phrase for another lock down of Ireland. Do they really believe the public are completely thick ???

yawhat?

Assetbacked wrote: »

Put granny at home and have super valu deliver her the shopping, sign her up to zoom with her mates for bingo parties and get her an iPad with RTE player. Just for a few weeks. This will help to stop it spreading to the vulnerable.

But that doesn’t stop the spread. Are you advocating herd immunity?

Micky 32

yawhat? wrote: »

But that doesn’t stop the spread. Are you advocating herd immunity?

What are you advocating ? Constant social and economic damaging lockdowns for the rest of your life?

Anyway history has shown us pandemics are generally short lived, things will be different in the next 2 years or so.

Ginger n Lemon

yawhat? wrote: »

But that doesn’t stop the spread. Are you advocating herd immunity?

No need to advocate it. It happens. It will happen. It will happen regardless what Ronan Glynn says, because not at any stage will we have military confining 4,900,000 to their homes for months on end, nor should we.

facehugger99

yawhat? wrote: »

But that doesn’t stop the spread. Are you advocating herd immunity?

Sensible measures - hand hygiene, social-distancing where appropriate, working from home where possible.

Accept that infections will rise but ramp up hospital and ICU capacity to deal with the small minority of people that will need interventions.

Tell the 'at-risk' ground to take extra precautions.

Treat people like responsible adults and stop pumping out the 24/7 hysteria. Don't let NPHET anywhere near a microphone for the duration.

yawhat?

Micky 32 wrote: »

What are you advocating ? Constant social and economic damaging lockdowns for the rest of your life?

Anyway history has shown us pandemics are generally short lived, things will be different in the next 2 years or so.

I’m not advocating anything. There’s a cohort on here constantly giving out about how this is being handled. Yet, when asked, no one can give a reasonably articulate summary of an alternative course of action.

_Kaiser_

DangerScouse wrote: »

Agreed. They definitely aren't taking it seriously enough.

Are you kidding? The entire country has been upended for 6 months over this. It was the right call in the first 2 months while we got a handle on the situation and learned more, but since mid-May the responses have been a complete overreaction.

Even now in the last few weeks, the Government, NPHET and media are getting hysterical and feeding fear into the general population over rising cases - yet still very few are in hospital and even fewer are dying.

People were always going to die from this. It's sad and unfortunate, but it's inevitable... it's a pandemic right? Our problem was the Government screwed up on nursing homes and exposed those most vulnerable to the virus who then died from it. It shouldn't have happened, but the bigger damage was caused by the impact on the national psyche and narrative.

But they are running out of road to kick the can down. Businesses are struggling, almost every sector is calling for aid and even where loans are available, they are slow to take them up given the uncertainty and interest rates (per an interview on RTE R1 earlier). Pandemic payments and mortgage reliefs are ending or being reduced.
Socially we have split the country into those terrified of catching it or spreading the virus, and those who recognise that the risk to most people is low but the impact to their livelihoods and mental health is massive!
Unsurprisingly then this has become divisive and confrontational with those who don't agree with the doom-laden, fearful narrative attacked by others who bother themselves more with what others are doing or "getting away with" that they aren't - forget GAA, THIS is the Irish national sport! :rolleyes:

Those who actually ARE at significant risk need to protect themselves, minimise that risk and take responsibility for their health while still living their lives as best they can in the circumstances. Everyone else needs to be allowed get back to living, working, spending and socialising with as minimum interference as possible.

Otherwise we won't have much of a country/society left by the time this is all over.

dalyboy

yawhat? wrote: »

But that doesn’t stop the spread. Are you advocating herd immunity?

Our governments actions don’t stop the spread either unless they’re going for a failed NZ model with the added disaster of economic Armageddon

https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases/7-new-cases-covid-19-2

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/new-zealand-in-deepest-ever-recession-due-to-covid-19-slump-1.4357295

weldoninhio

yawhat? wrote: »

But that doesn’t stop the spread. Are you advocating herd immunity?

The government are advocating herd immunity

Ireland would aim “to keep it as low level as possible and minimise infections, minimise the risk of our health service being overwhelmed, which we’ve done successfully - until such time as we develop herd immunity, which will take an extremely long time” said Varadkar.

Ginger n Lemon

facehugger99 wrote: »

Sensible measures - hand hygiene, social-distancing where appropriate, working from home where possible.

Accept that infections will rise but ramp up hospital and ICU capacity to deal with the small minority of people that will need interventions.

Tell the 'at-risk' ground to take extra precautions.

Treat people like responsible adults and stop pumping out the 24/7 hysteria. Don't let NPHET anywhere near a microphone for the duration.

I dont agree with that in bold. Theres been no confirmed cases of significance in offices or public transport.

The whole work from home phenomenon will make people more depressed and put on extra weight (ironically making them more at risk), especially over the winter time as it gets cold outside and "going out for a walk" gets that little bit more difficult.

I agree with everything else

yawhat?

facehugger99 wrote: »

Sensible measures - hand hygiene, social-distancing where appropriate, working from home where possible.

Accept that infections will rise but ramp up hospital and ICU capacity to deal with the small minority of people that will need interventions.

Tell the 'at-risk' ground to take extra precautions.

Treat people like responsible adults and stop pumping out the 24/7 hysteria. Don't let NPHET anywhere near a microphone for the duration.

All your sensible measures are in place already, yet they aren’t working.

Stormyteacup

yawhat? wrote: »

I’m not advocating anything. There’s a cohort on here constantly giving out about how this is being handled. Yet, when asked, no one can give a reasonably articulate summary of an alternative course of action.

Have you just skipped over the many contributions from rational posters advocating taking precautions in daily life along with bolstering our health system?

That’s a summary of an alternative course of action involving no lockdowns.

Ginger n Lemon

Health Protection Surveillance Centre data suggests that there have only been a handful of Covid-19 outbreaks in pubs and restaurants since they re-opened. Many more are linked to private homes. This has also been confirmed by NPHET representatives at recent Covid-19 briefings.

One senior health official said that often the contact tracing process will only seek out contacts for the last 48 hours – the period during which an individual is infectious.

They stressed that contact tracers are not interested in where the disease came from, but are instead focused on where the disease is going as it’s passed to more recent contacts.

https://www.thejournal.ie/pubs-restaurants-closed-dublin-lockdown-restrictions-covid-19-5207894-Sep2020/

Bravo. New level of incompetency in charge reached. We dont care where you got it, we care where you give it. HSE.

Ireland never disappoints.

Above is the "progress" of 6 months. Great contact tracing we've got. Would you have some cop on.

facehugger99

yawhat? wrote: »

All your sensible measures are in place already, yet they aren’t working.

Hospitals are not being over-whelmed and the median age of those dying is higher than life-expectancy.

What are you expecting - an end to death?

yawhat?

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Have you just skipped over the many contributions from rational posters advocating taking precautions in daily life along with bolstering our health system?

That’s a summary of an alternative course of action involving no lockdowns.

What does bolstering our health system mean?

Stormyteacup

yawhat? wrote: »

All your sensible measures are in place already, yet they aren’t working.

Not working to eliminate Covid - correct.

Enough to keep it under control? Evidence says yes as long as there is care available for anyone that needs it.

yawhat?

facehugger99 wrote: »

Hospitals are not being over-whelmed and the median age of those dying is higher than life-expectancy.

What are you expecting - an end to death?

So do we just hope hospitals dont become overwhelmed? What if they do become overwhelmed? What’s the plan then?

Hurrache

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

No need to advocate it. It happens. It will happen. It will happen regardless what Ronan Glynn says, because not at any stage will we have military confining 4,900,000 to their homes for months on end, nor should we.

And immunity, if at all, is suspected to last a year, if even.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Theres been no confirmed cases of significance in offices or public transport.

Why are you still ignoring the obvious reasons?

Assetbacked

I'd be curious to know if the Gardai have been making points to the government that they don't want to waste resources walking around pubs in Dublin the next 2 weeks to see how many are dining inside, asking museums why they have let a handful of people in at 11am on a Monday morning when they should be closed, standing on the slip roads to the M50 asking where people are going etc.

facehugger99

yawhat? wrote: »

So do we just hope hospitals dont become overwhelmed? What if they do become overwhelmed? What’s the plan then?

So we should destroy the economy based on a 'what if'?

The irony is, this is exactly how the government and bureaucrats think.

They would rather flush the economy down the toilet than run the risk of being held accountable for a single Covid 'granny-death'.

The fact that the measures they have introduced are going to lead to countless more deaths in the medium to long term, mainly as a result of the billions in health spending cuts we will need to implement in the coming years, is of no importance to them.

yawhat?

facehugger99 wrote: »

So we should destroy the economy based on a 'what if'?

The irony is, this is exactly how the government and bureaucrats think.

They would rather flush the economy down the toilet than run the risk of being held accountable for a single Covid 'granny-death'.

The fact that the measures they have introduced are going to lead to countless more deaths in the medium to long term, mainly as a result of the billions of health cuts we will need to implement in the coming years, is of no importance to them.

“Destroy the economy”, “flush the economy down the toilet”, a bit of hysteria creeping in here. They are just introducing additional temporary restrictions.

FintanMcluskey

facehugger99 wrote: »

The fact that the measures they have introduced are going to lead to countless more deaths in the medium to long term, mainly as a result of the billions in health spending cuts we will need to implement in the coming years, is of no importance to them.

Ironically, the people, whos lives are allegedly being "saved" from Covid will also be pushing up daisies long before the full effect of the restrictions are felt.

Harsh but reality is harsh Im afraid

Assetbacked

yawhat? wrote: »

“Destroy the economy”, “flush the economy down the toilet”, a bit of hysteria creeping in here. They are just introducing additional temporary restrictions.

They are hurting the economy and delaying action to try to get on top of the blakhole of health expenditure (one of the worst health services in Europe), a catastrophic housing crisis and a climate emergency the more they persist in ignorning the economic impacts of this flat-curve experiment. Working tax payers are yet again being asked to foot the bill as no income tax or USC reductions are due in the budget. Any additional restrictions need to be properly justified and not just based solely on the advice of an unelected and unaccountable NPHET, while social and economic arguments are ignored.

average_runner

yawhat? wrote: »

“Destroy the economy”, “flush the economy down the toilet”, a bit of hysteria creeping in here. They are just introducing additional temporary restrictions.

But they are measures that don't tackle the problem. There is no evidence to back these decisions

facehugger99

yawhat? wrote: »

“Destroy the economy”, “flush the economy down the toilet”, a bit of hysteria creeping in here. They are just introducing additional temporary restrictions.

From a balanced budget, we are now over €10billion in deficit and every day that figure grows.

In August Paschal Donohue, optimistically reassured us that we'd keep the deficit below €30bn. Gee thanks Paschal, I don't feel so bad now.

Meanwhile we are destroying thousands of viable business and have hundreds of thousands collecting an 'emergency payment'.

There is no vaccine in sight, there is no long term plan other than kick the can down the road with restrictions - temporary my arse.

It's good you're not worried about it but I suspect that's because the bill hasn't been presented to you yet. I'd imagine you'll be far less blasé when the penny drops with you and others like you, that are living in a fantasy land.

yawhat?

Assetbacked wrote: »

They are hurting the economy and delaying action to try to get on top of the blakhole of health expenditure (one of the worst health services in Europe) and a catastrophic housing crisis the more they persist in ignorning the economic impacts of this flat-curve experiment. Working tax payers are yet again being asked to foot the bill as no income tax or USC reductions are due in the budget. Any additional restrictions need to be properly justified and not just based solely on the advice of an unelected and unaccountable NPHET, while social and economic arguments are ignored.

There will be economic damage no matter what way you go. People don’t want to catch Covid and will alter their behaviour and reduce their economic activity if it spreads widely. There is no magic course of action that will significantly reduce the economic damage in the absence of a vaccine.