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Britain commemorating VE day

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    #182
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    pgj2015 wrote: »
    Exactly, the British did it all so Irish people could be free:pac:

    Well, not just the British but many thousands from Ireland also, who laid down their lives to fight the Nazis, (even if this State officially remained neutral).

    Both sides of my extended family & my wife's family were in RAF or Royal Navy service during WWII, and we're all very proud of them.


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    #183
    Unclebumble
    Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭Unclebumble


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    True enough, good idea.

    Take em back and send off all the West Brits and protestants too with them. They'd probably be happy to go off to their deaths for their British masters.

    So you believe you can't be a protestant and an Irish republican eh?


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    #184
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    Living in Scotland , VE Day is never really a thing but I guess with the 75th they made an effort. Socially distant lawn parties with people setting up cake stands was nice to see. Very very different to The month that surrounds Poppy Day.


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    #185
    MoonUnit75
    Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    Muscles Schultz wrote: »
    Indeed. Well the US and Soviet Union. England were hopeless early on Norway, fall of France, Singapore. It was only that Hitler was disinterested and didn’t dislike England all that much that he didn’t invade and stomp them in 1940.

    This is an interesting poll-

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/05/01/Britain-America-disagree-who-did-more-beat-nazis

    Not at all, Hitler needed to invade Britain because the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force severely impacted German supplies and production and had the capacity to gut major German cities. The German navy was no match for the Royal Navy who, along with the RAF, would have likely destroyed most of a German invasion force before it reached the beaches. The failure of the Luftwaffe to eliminate the RAF meant an invasion was too high risk. No matter how you look at it, it was a defensive victory.

    Don’t forget also that the British and their colonial forces halted and then defeated the German army in Africa with minimal US involvement. When the US army did show up in force the Germans thought far less of them than the British.


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    #186
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    blinding wrote: »
    Don’t start something like the second world war unless you are willing to accept the consequences.

    The German people did not stop Hitler.

    Because he used democracy itself to end democratic rule in Germany, he the crowned himself dictator. Learn some history.


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    #187
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Your Face wrote: »
    I have to admit - the British making themselves out to be defenders of democracy and 'fair play' always irks me a bit given their history.

    Straight after WW2 they were trying to further the cause of their empire at the expense of self-determination.
    Another thing I find is that lot of their commemorations come across as triumphalist and you'd swear they never had allies in any war.

    Anyway, at least there is relative peace now.

    Britain has always been a highly militaristic nation, the most of any European nation


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    #188
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Ah lads. Don't begrudge the British a bit of national pride. WW2 was a big event in modern British history. A lot of British history is a mix of triumph with deep shame. WW2 is a pretty good event in their history.

    If Ireland had a similar impact on WW2, we'd celebrate it too. VE day is a good day out for the British (not this year, obviously) and I certainly don't begrudge them a bit of national pride.


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    #189
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    policarp wrote: »
    The Australians and New Zealanders celebrate Anzac day.

    British down under, that's all both countries were back then, both oz and nz only became real independent nations post ww2 and certainly were extensions of Britain in 1915, new Zealand especially as it had little or no Irish influence, at least not paddy Irish


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    #190
    MoonUnit75
    Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    Because he used democracy itself to end democratic rule in Germany, he the crowned himself dictator. Learn some history.

    Do you really think Hitler would have lost free and fair elections by the mid 1930s?


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    #191
    Jizique
    Registered Users Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Odhinn wrote: »
    More specifically, Hitler chose not too. As regards 'stopping Hitler', I might suggest reading "The coming of the Third Reich" by Richard J Evans.

    Another great book


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    #192
    Tom Mann Centuria
    Registered Users Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    Victory day today incidentally.

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



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    #193
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Some bloody awful begrudging posts on here regarding VE day :cool:

    Victory in Europe Day (VE Day) is one of the most important historical days in the modern World (obviously), so for all small minded "Emergency" posters on here, listen up. The British people (+many Irish people) fought the Nazis and won, not forgetting all the other countries involved in the WWII struggle like the US, Russia, France etc etc etc.

    So many countries marking VE day in a positive and reflective light, so how anybody can come on here and sneer at Britain and her Allies needs the be taken down a peg or two and given a history lesson on WWII / Hitler and the Nazis.

    Honestly, some of the crap we get posted on here is beyond trash.


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    #194
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    MoonUnit75 wrote: »
    Do you really think Hitler would have lost free and fair elections by the mid 1930s?

    There weren’t any


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    #195
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,508 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Hamsterchops wrote: »
    Some bloody awful begrudging posts on here regarding VE day :cool:

    Victory in Europe Day (VE Day) is one of the most important historical days in the modern World (obviously), so for all small minded "Emergency" posters on here, listen up. The British people (+many Irish people) fought the Nazis and won, not forgetting all the other countries involved in the WWII struggle like the US, Russia, France etc etc etc.

    So many countries marking VE day in a positive and reflective light, so how anybody can come on here and sneer at Britain and her Allies needs the be taken down a peg or two and given a history lesson on WWII / Hitler and the Nazis.

    Honestly, some of the crap we get posted on here is beyond trash.

    When the British fought the Germans they lost, surely?

    It was when the Allies formed that the Germans were defeated, thankfully.


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    #196
    extra gravy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,624 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    Hamsterchops wrote: »
    Some bloody awful begrudging posts on here regarding VE day :cool:

    Victory in Europe Day (VE Day) is one of the most important historical days in the modern World (obviously), so for all small minded "Emergency" posters on here, listen up. The British people (+many Irish people) fought the Nazis and won, not forgetting all the other countries involved in the WWII struggle like the US, Russia, France etc etc etc.

    So many countries marking VE day in a positive and reflective light, so how anybody can come on here and sneer at Britain and her Allies needs the be taken down a peg or two and given a history lesson on WWII / Hitler and the Nazis.

    Honestly, some of the crap we get posted on here is beyond trash.

    Who's sneering? Of course it's an important day and there's nothing wrong with marking it in a sombre and reflective manner. Some people (including many who served) just don't think it should be celebrated. There's a difference.


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    #197
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,135 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    extra gravy wrote: »
    Who's sneering?

    Quite a few on here if you look back.


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    #198
    MoonUnit75
    Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    There weren’t any

    There was the 1934 referendum though, even with widespread intimidation there’s little doubt Hitler would have won that vote in any case. It was something like 90% for to 10% against with almost full turnout. The question was basically do you give Hitler full dictatorial powers and the sole right to select his replacement.


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    #199
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    Because he used democracy itself to end democratic rule in Germany, he the crowned himself dictator. Learn some history.
    History tells you to be wary of the Germans and the British.


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    #200
    MoonUnit75
    Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    When the British fought the Germans they lost, surely?

    It was when the Allies formed that the Germans were defeated, thankfully.

    No, the British successfully defeated the planned invasion by Hitler, defeated the Italians and then, with time, the Germans in North Africa.


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    #201
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,508 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    MoonUnit75 wrote: »
    No, the British successfully defeated the planned invasion by Hitler, defeated the Italians and then, with time, the Germans in North Africa.

    You'll have a hard time convincing anyone that a hurried retreat is a win.

    There is no conclusive evidence that Hitler planned to invade Britain and different schools of thought on it.

    Repelling an invasion of a power that went on to grow ain't no victory anyway.


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    #202
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    MoonUnit75 wrote: »
    No, the British successfully defeated the planned invasion by Hitler, defeated the Italians and then, with time, the Germans in North Africa.
    Weren’t the Americans in Italy.


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    #203
    MoonUnit75
    Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You'll have a hard time convincing anyone that a hurried retreat is a win.

    There is no conclusive evidence that Hitler planned to invade Britain and different schools of thought on it.

    Repelling an invasion of a power that went on to grow ain't no victory anyway.

    Fürher Directive 16 instructed the military branches to prepare for an invasion of Britain once they had put Hitler’s preconditions into place. Conversion of boats into troop transports were in full swing during the Battle of Britain.

    Britain was caught by surprise with the French capitulation, the French had some of the best ground equipment and defences of the early war.


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    #204
    MoonUnit75
    Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    blinding wrote: »
    Weren’t the Americans in Italy.

    The British completely defeated the Italians in North Africa. Hitler sent forces to prevent axis power being driven into the Mediterranean Sea.


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    #205
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,508 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    MoonUnit75 wrote: »
    Fürher Directive 16 instructed the military branches to prepare for an invasion of Britain once they had put Hitler’s preconditions into place. Conversion of boats into troop transports were in full swing during the Battle of Britain.

    Britain was caught by surprise with the French capitulation, the French had some of the best ground equipment and defences of the early war.

    They retreated back to Britain, that was not a 'victory'.

    The Allies defeated the Germans.


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    #206
    Jizique
    Registered Users Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭Jizique


    MoonUnit75 wrote: »
    The British completely defeated the Italians in North Africa. Hitler sent forces to prevent axis power being driven into the Mediterranean Sea.

    Defeating the Italians is nothing to celebrate and brag about


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    #207
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Britain has always been a highly militaristic nation, the most of any European nation

    More than the French Empire ?

    More than Imperial Germany ?


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    #208
    MoonUnit75
    Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    They retreated back to Britain, that was not a 'victory'.

    The Allies defeated the Germans.

    They defeated the planned invasion of their country. Bear in mind the US lost most of their early battles against both the Germans and the Japanese. The Allies could not have defeated Germany without British involvement. The US would never have gotten a foothold in Europe if Britain had not defeated Germany in the Battle of Britain and in North Africa.


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    #209
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    extra gravy wrote: »
    Who's sneering? Of course it's an important day and there's nothing wrong with marking it in a sombre and reflective manner. Some people (including many who served) just don't think it should be celebrated. There's a difference.

    Victories are generally celebrated.

    Not sombrely reflected upon.


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    #210
    extra gravy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,624 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    Victories are generally celebrated.

    Not sombrely reflected upon.

    Yes celebrated the day it happened by the people who were there and then commemorated and reflected upon every year after that.


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    #211
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    MoonUnit75 wrote: »
    The British completely defeated the Italians in North Africa. Hitler sent forces to prevent axis power being driven into the Mediterranean Sea.

    Did`nt the Italians have tanks with one forward gear and fifteen reverse?


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