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Britain commemorating VE day

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    #62
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,525 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Ben Done wrote: »
    The German President's speech to mark the day is well worth reading, particularly as some English papers were calling it 'Victory Over Europe' day..

    https://www.bundespraesident.de/SharedDocs/Reden/EN/Frank-Walter-Steinmeier/Reden/2020/05/200508-75th-anniversary-World-War-II.html

    Given the rhetoric and bluff and bluster we hear from two of the politicians we pay most attention to outside of our own, that really is a remarkably reflective and insightful speech.

    Angela Merkel said before that 'We will find out just what we have learned from WWII when everyone who experienced it is gone".
    This also touches on that message that it must be actively remembered, in order to ensure it doesn't happen again.


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    #63
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,861 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Given the rhetoric and bluff and bluster we hear from two of the politicians we pay most attention to outside of our own, that really is a remarkably reflective and insightful speech.

    Angela Merkel said before that 'We will find out just what we have learned from WWII when everyone who experienced it is gone".
    This also touches on that message that it must be actively remembered, in order to ensure it doesn't happen again.

    Which would be of little consolation to the victims of US war crimes in Vietnam.

    Strange how Merkel ignores those victims.


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    #64
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Which would be of little consolation to the victims of US war crimes in Vietnam.

    Strange how Merkel ignores those victims.

    Why would Merkel mention Vietnam? Any other conflicts she should have mentioned? The Zulu massacre of 1878? The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan? The Chinese takeover of Tibet?

    Your endless soap boxing has become very tedious.


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    #65
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,305 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Do you feel the same way abour ST Patrick's Day?

    What? Not remotely comparable ffs


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    #66
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,243 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    lawred2 wrote: »
    What? Not remotely comparable ffs

    Which one is not a celebration of nationalism?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #67
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,305 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    MoonUnit75 wrote: »
    They weren’t the European police force. All countries except Germany wanted to avoid restarting the Great War. The force they sent to France was not half-hearted.

    I think you'll find that empires of the time did indeed see themselves as a sort of police force; not for altruistic purposes obviously but more to police the distribution of the world's resources.


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    #68
    landofthetree
    Registered Users Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭landofthetree


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Don't want this to come across the wrong way but will they ever move on?

    I'm all for commemoration of important events and sacrifice but no other country goes that mad for remembering the World Wars.

    It seemed so jingoistic and OTT today (but for the virus probably would have been more impressive) and it seems every month now there is some commemoration or other.

    Part of me thinks it's good because so many are at the end of their lives but another part of me thinks it's OTT and even forced (the poppies in November).

    Everywhere else seems far more reserved about it with remembrance.

    With Britain it seems like it's something deeper to them than just remembrance.

    How do you know about it?

    Oh that's right. You watch British TV like the rest of the Irish nation.

    Don't watch British TV could be your solution.


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    #69
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,476 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Which one is not a celebration of nationalism?

    It's really more akin to the 1916 celebrations, it's ok for irish people to celebrate that but not for British people to celebrate their role in WW2.

    Leave them to it, they will drag up everything from Brexit to the crusades and anything in between because they NEED to bash the Brits.

    Meanwhile your average British person doesn't know nor care what a random person says on these boards. Leave them to their handwringing, I find it amusing myself.


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    #70
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,305 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Which one is not a celebration of nationalism?

    You'll have to do better than that...


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    #71
    Jizique
    Registered Users Posts: 1,864 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    It's really more akin to the 1916 celebrations, it's ok for irish people to celebrate that but not for British people to celebrate their role in WW2.

    Leave them to it, they will drag up everything from Brexit to the crusades and anything in between because they NEED to bash the Brits.

    Meanwhile your average British person doesn't know nor care what a random person says on these boards. Leave them to their handwringing, I find it amusing myself.

    We celebrate 1916? With bunting and street parties?


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    #72
    landofthetree
    Registered Users Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭landofthetree


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    It's really more akin to the 1916 celebrations, it's ok for irish people to celebrate that but not for British people to celebrate their role in WW2.

    Leave them to it, they will drag up everything from Brexit to the crusades and anything in between because they NEED to bash the Brits.

    Meanwhile your average British person doesn't know nor care what a random person says on these boards. Leave them to their handwringing, I find it amusing myself.

    Irish people are obsessed with the UK.

    Follow their soccer teams and watch their TV channels.


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    #73
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,305 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    It's really more akin to the 1916 celebrations, it's ok for irish people to celebrate that but not for British people to celebrate their role in WW2.

    Leave them to it, they will drag up everything from Brexit to the crusades and anything in between because they NEED to bash the Brits.

    Meanwhile your average British person doesn't know nor care what a random person says on these boards. Leave them to their handwringing, I find it amusing myself.

    I don't know about you but most Irish people I know pay next to no attention to 1916 celebrations..


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    #74
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,476 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Jizique wrote: »
    We celebrate 1916? With bunting and street parties?

    Different countries do things differently, I for one am shocked!

    Street parties have been around for decades in the UK, They are a community tradition that you obviously dont understand.


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    #75
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,243 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    It's really more akin to the 1916 celebrations, it's ok for irish people to celebrate that but not for British people to celebrate their role in WW2.

    Leave them to it, they will drag up everything from Brexit to the crusades and anything in between because they NEED to bash the Brits.

    Meanwhile your average British person doesn't know nor care what a random person says on these boards. Leave them to their handwringing, I find it amusing myself.

    It's parading about and celebrating achievements that you personally did nothing to achieve and celebrating the location of your birth.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #76
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,476 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    landofthetree wrote: »
    Irish people are obsessed with the UK.

    Follow their soccer teams and watch their TV channels.

    I have never understood this, they hate the country so much yet spend a large portion of their lives consuming as much T.V/Sports from that country as they can.


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    #77
    Muscles Schultz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 302 ✭✭Muscles Schultz


    Central Services wrote: »
    The over-celebration helps drown out the annoying fact that it was the Soviet Union that beat Germany.

    Indeed. Well the US and Soviet Union. England were hopeless early on Norway, fall of France, Singapore. It was only that Hitler was disinterested and didn’t dislike England all that much that he didn’t invade and stomp them in 1940.

    This is an interesting poll-

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/05/01/Britain-America-disagree-who-did-more-beat-nazis


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    #78
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,476 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    It's parading about and celebrating achievements that you personally did nothing to achieve and celebrating the location of your birth.

    That's correct, I wasn't even born.

    Meanwhile my great grandfather fought in WW1 and suffered from inhaling mustard gas.

    He then went on to fight in WW2 and lost his left leg from below the knee, gangerine set in and he eventually had to have the rest of his leg amputated. He died in 76 from lung complications due to his being gassed.

    My grandfather also fought in WW2 for over 4 years travelling throughout europe to fight the Nazi scourge. A very quiet man he rarely ever talked about his experiences on the continent but one thing he said to me always stick with me.

    "None of us wanted to be there but all of us knew we had to be there"

    So while I personally wasnt there due to not being born for another 30 years I do take pride knowing that my grandparents were directly involved and any celebrations i take part in are to commemorate their sacrifices that they made so the likes of you and I can live the lives we do today.


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    #79
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,861 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    Why would Merkel mention Vietnam? Any other conflicts she should have mentioned? The Zulu massacre of 1878? The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan? The Chinese takeover of Tibet?

    Your endless soap boxing has become very tedious.

    Did you not read what Merkel said about the horrors of WWII and not repeating them? Yet they have been repeated by one of her nation's allies. Why were no war crimes charges brought against US politicians and military leaders?

    It shows that Merkel is full of shyt.


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    #80
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,989 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    da_miser wrote: »
    Hell no, we where neutral despite the UK pressure, only when the US entered the war did we go with the allies

    Get this, we were never truly neutral. Not now and not then.

    The Irish govt at the time had a poor relationship with the US and the US ambassador in particular, who lead US efforts to pressure Ireland into joining the Allies and sucessfully pissed off his host country.


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    #81
    LeYouth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 161 ✭✭LeYouth


    I'll tell you what's funny - is the Irish government having ceremonies for it.


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    #82
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,989 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Jizique wrote: »
    We celebrate 1916? With bunting and street parties?

    Commemoration isn't the same thing as celebration.
    We didn't 'win' 1916, what's to celebrate?


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    #83
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    The Brits played their part in getting rid of the Nazis, and paid a heavy price for it, in human and material terms.

    They are right to remember it. Their state should remember it, as should their people. There are plenty reasons in 2020 why both would want to refract the present through the past, and at this point in time they need something to rally around.

    People often make sense of trauma and sacrifice by putting a meaning onto it, or a righteous position, or whatever. They may not know much about appeasement, Dunkirk, the (arguably) war-crime area bombing of Germany, the pandering to Stalin vis-a-vis the scandalous treatment of the Poles on VE Day, the loss of world status, and all the other whatabouteries.

    But there are plenty UK citizens who are historically informed enough to put their own flag-waving masses right about thsose things.

    Irish people sniping at everything the Brits do, on the other hand, is absolutely cringeworthy.

    Sh1te thread.


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    #84
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,243 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    landofthetree wrote: »
    Irish people are obsessed with the UK.

    Follow their soccer teams and watch their TV channels.

    So you're telling me you ONLY ever watch RTE?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #85
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,243 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    That's correct, I wasn't even born.

    Meanwhile my great grandfather fought in WW1 and suffered from inhaling mustard gas.

    He then went on to fight in WW2 and lost his left leg from below the knee, gangerine set in and he eventually had to have the rest of his leg amputated. He died in 76 from lung complications due to his being gassed.

    My grandfather also fought in WW2 for over 4 years travelling throughout europe to fight the Nazi scourge. A very quiet man he rarely ever talked about his experiences on the continent but one thing he said to me always stick with me.

    "None of us wanted to be there but all of us knew we had to be there"

    So while I personally wasnt there due to not being born for another 30 years I do take pride knowing that my grandparents were directly involved and any celebrations i take part in are to commemorate their sacrifices that they made so the likes of you and I can live the lives we do today.

    I thanked mine peresonally. He wasn't one for parades either though, to be honest.

    I'm neither for nor against them myself - I just like concistency. Saying that country A are bunch of jingoists who won't let something go, while country B must do it as a very important celebration of nationality and soverignity is, to me, hypocriticial.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #86
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,243 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Blaaz_ wrote: »
    Tbf we only have saorview where i live.....havnt watched bbc channels in years


    Netfliz is where its at....do people even watch anything on tv channels anymore??

    Fair point, but where was the stuff people watch on Netflix made?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #87
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,305 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    I thanked mine peresonally. He wasn't one for parades either though, to be honest.

    I'm neither for nor against them myself - I just like concistency. Saying that country A are bunch of jingoists who won't let something go, while country B must do it as a very important celebration of nationality and soverignity is, to me, hypocriticial.

    That's fair to a point.

    I don't object to commemorations in general. I tend to ignore them in the main.

    But for me the tone of British commemorations generally tends towards triumphalism and jingoism. Moreso that most commemorations.

    They have a bedfellow in the US in that regard really.


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    #88
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Blaaz_ wrote: »
    It used be joked,the japs sang the boys of kilmicheal after invading singapore....that general over em there,got his arse handed to em here in WOI and never stood a chance againest the japanese

    A great bunch of lads, the Japs


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    #89
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    lawred2 wrote: »
    That's fair to a point.

    I don't object to commemorations in general. I tend to ignore them in the main.

    But for me the tone of British commemorations generally tends towards triumphalism and jingoism. Moreso that most commemorations.

    They have a bedfellow in the US in that regard really.
    More rubbish.

    Of course the Russians, French and Chinese ars all more sedate in their commemorations


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    #90
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,305 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Edgware wrote: »
    More rubbish.

    Of course the Russians, French and Chinese ars all more sedate in their commemorations

    Sure why not pick a military dictatorship in Africa while you're at it...

    A rather low bar you set


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    #91
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,325 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Never trust the Italians in war!

    All Eyes On Rafah



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