Britain commemorating VE day

Your Face

I have to admit - the British making themselves out to be defenders of democracy and 'fair play' always irks me a bit given their history.

Straight after WW2 they were trying to further the cause of their empire at the expense of self-determination.
Another thing I find is that lot of their commemorations come across as triumphalist and you'd swear they never had allies in any war.

Anyway, at least there is relative peace now.

pgj2015

BrookieD wrote: »

It is important and rightfully so.. Thousands of men and women laid there life on the line to give you and I the freedom we enjoy today and most today cannot even stay at home and watch TV for the good of others and themselves, jesus wept

Also, please don't even, Ireland scored a goal 30odd years ago against England and its dragged up any chance you get.... wind it in. :rolleyes:

Exactly, the British did it all so Irish people could be free:pac:

JL555

Jizique wrote: »

It may be important but not when they try to portray it as Victory over Europe day and brag it down to petty nationalism instead of remembering the role played by all other European (and American) allies in liberating the Germans.
I never mentioned football or rugby.
It is well captured in this tweet I saw today from an Australian trade expert (originally Russian, living in Geneva)
https://mobile.twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1258353865658896385

Victory over Europe day? Good God man.. and as for the rest of your comment...words fail me.

looksee

Lord there is some serious insecurity showing here.

There is a solution you know. Cancel any tv subscriptions that include BBC, don't buy British newspapers and stick to RTE, then you won't be upset.

policarp

The Australians and New Zealanders celebrate Anzac day.

PCeeeee

looksee wrote: »

Lord there is some serious insecurity showing here.

There is a solution you know. Cancel any tv subscriptions that include BBC, don't buy British newspapers and stick to RTE, then you won't be upset.

Absolutely. The opinions of others only upset you if you hear hear them.

Why are you here?

Mongfinder General

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Do you feel the same way abour ST Patrick's Day?

I ****ing hate Paddy's Day. National embarrassment.

Manach

Having a slight interest in history, one can talk about desesive turning points in world events. This is one of the key ones. If the British had gone down another path which they could easily have done, then a Nazi Reich could have domintated Europe, if not for a 1000 years, then at least for many generations.

MoonUnit75

riffmongous wrote: »

Hold on now, they acted like they were. The Czechs weren't even invited to the talks that saw their own country sacrificed. It was the British who led the import embargos on Republican Spain while turning a blind eye to direct German and Italian involvement

My understanding of the British policy on Spain was that they felt the Republican government was losing its control over a possible peasant revolt within its own ranks on the one hand and its appeasement of Germany and Italy on the other.

MoonUnit75

PCeeeee wrote: »

One can accept the huge sacrifice and the bloody minded and terrific bravery of UK taking a stand against the Nazis while also understanding that the war was largely won elsewhere.

Any casual glance at the casualties sustained is informative. Churchill himself was clear in 1940 (and indeed before) about what he felt would be needed to defeat the nazis '

'if, which I do not for a moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old'

There is no question that the war was won by the USSR and latterly by the US. That is in no way to down play the role of the UK, there is really no other interpreptaion possible.

Well if you want to go down that route, there was no other staging ground for a US landing on the western coast of mainland Europe, if the British airforce had collapsed and the planned invasion of Britain went ahead then the outcome of the war is very, very far from being a clear cut thing. If Hitler had all the African and Western Front forces in Russia in 1942 he could easily have seized the oil fields in Russia and solved the problem that really led to Germany’s downfall.

policarp

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

My understanding of the British policy on Spain was that they felt the Republican government was losing its control over a possible peasant revolt within its own ranks on the one hand and its appeasement of Germany and Italy on the other.

Plus Franco was allied to Hitler and Mussolini and changed the time zone from GMT to CET to piss the rest of Europe off.

PCeeeee

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Well if you want to go down that route, there was no other staging ground for a US landing on the coast of mainland Europe, if the British airforce had collapsed and the planned invasion of Britain went ahead then the outcome of the war is very, very far from being a clear cut thing. If Hitler had all the African and Western Front forces in Russia in 1942 he could easily have seized the oil fields in Russia and solved the problem that really led to Germany’s downfall.

I'm not sure what route you belive I'm taking. Manach above makes his point quite well. A similar one to you if I understand you.

It doesn't really address what I'm attempting to say (IMO of course). The UK could not won the war alone and it was won elsewhere. That's not to say events could not have unfolded differently. But they didn't.

Das Reich

Germany, France and Japan were the bigger losers of the war, and in smaller extent England and Italy. European powers were forced to decolonize and to stay in the shaddow of URSS and USA. If not by the efforts of Mussolini in 1938 to stop the war it would end much early, with Soviet Union wiping Europe and forcing their regime just after Stalin sent to Gulags most of its generals.

The One Doctor

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

With Britain it seems like it's something deeper to them than just remembrance.

Yes, it's the last time the UK did anything worthwhile for other countries.

da_miser

A country hanging on to a moment of glory in its past as it slides into a world of hurt of its own making.

Kermit.de.frog

For the record they should of course commemorate victory.

VE day is among the most worthy because Britain did stand alone for so long.

I do take issue with the likes of Dunkirk though which was arguably the most humiliating military defeat in a major war in history.

The follow on would see Britain beaten to a pulp and to all intents and purposes defeated by the German war machine until the Americans entered the war.

I get it from a 'raise the spirits' viewpoint at the time after the rescue but there is so much myth injected in to these events that historical fact gets left behind.

Dr. Bre

It’s to make them still feel relevant . Good luck to them. They no longer the huge empire they were

da_miser

"Boys if you don't defeat those Germans, Pakistani rape gangs wont be free to roam north England and districts of English cities wont be run under Sharia law, so go out there and bash the Bosch" - Winston Churchill 1945
VE day celebrations in the UK is a country that pines for a better time, as bad as the war was..........................

Quantum Erasure

Central Services wrote: »

The over-celebration helps drown out the annoying fact that it was the Soviet Union that beat Germany.

Putin congratulates British PM Johnson on Victory Day
https://tass.com/society/1154333

Putin also "expressed confidence that the memory of the combat brotherhood of the war era would help develop constructive Russian-British dialogue and cooperation in the fight against threats and challenges of our time."

da_miser

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Putin congratulates British PM Johnson on Victory Day
https://tass.com/society/1154333

Putin also "expressed confidence that the memory of the combat brotherhood of the war era would help develop constructive Russian-British dialogue and cooperation in the fight against threats and challenges of our time."

All well and good, but last year in celebration of the defeat of Germany, Russia was not invited, Germany was , but not Russia, something to thing about?

whisky_galore

yosser hughes wrote: »

How do you feel about Ireland's role during WW2?

What was an economically crippled newborn nation supposed to do with a small collection of WW1 era military museum pieces vs Nazi Germany?

whisky_galore

policarp wrote: »

Plus Franco was allied to Hitler and Mussolini and changed the time zone from GMT to CET to piss the rest of Europe off.

Germany and Italy were very pissed off to say the least when Spain plumped for neutrality, in spite of the help they gave Franco.

da_miser

whisky_galore wrote: »

What was an economically crippled newborn nation supposed to do with a small collection of WW1 era military museum pieces vs Nazi Germany?

We where smart to stay out of it. Todays equivalent is exactly the same , what chance does Ireland have in a war against a super power?

whisky_galore

da_miser wrote: »

We where smart to stay out of it. Todays equivalent is exactly the same , what chance does Ireland have in a war against a super power?

Not to mention the war of independence and Civil War was still fresh. It would have made no sense to side with Britain, at least overtly. We did give the Allies a lot of under the counter support, we didn't jeopardise ourselves but we did know what side our bread was buttered on.

da_miser

Lets be honest, we where full on with Germany when it began, but once our cousins in USA entered the war , there was no doubt who we would be with!
Every Irish family has kin in the USA.

whisky_galore

da_miser wrote: »

Lets be honest, we where full on with Germany when it began, but once our cousins in USA entered the war , there was no doubt who we would be with!
Every Irish family has kin in the USA.

Eh, no.

The Irish govt sympathies and support were with the Allies, although a segment of the general population, through ignorance or "the enemy of my enemy" favoured an Axis victory.

krissovo

da_miser wrote: »

"Boys if you don't defeat those Germans, Pakistani rape gangs wont be free to roam north England and districts of English cities wont be run under Sharia law, so go out there and bash the Bosch" - Winston Churchill 1945
VE day celebrations in the UK is a country that pines for a better time, as bad as the war was..........................

Stay classy!

policarp

Why all the Brit bashing?
They were conquered by several so called civilisations
they did what they were subjected to.
The Irish are no saints when it comes to domination or brutality

da_miser

krissovo wrote: »

Stay classy!

Can you tell me when stating the truth became a issue?

da_miser

whisky_galore wrote: »

Eh, no.

The Irish govt sympathies and support were with the Allies, although a segment of the general population, through ignorance or "the enemy of my enemy" favoured an Axis victory.

Hell no, we where neutral despite the UK pressure, only when the US entered the war did we go with the allies