Britain commemorating VE day

Kermit.de.frog

Don't want this to come across the wrong way but will they ever move on?

I'm all for commemoration of important events and sacrifice but no other country goes that mad for remembering the World Wars.

It seemed so jingoistic and OTT today (but for the virus probably would have been more impressive) and it seems every month now there is some commemoration or other.

Part of me thinks it's good because so many are at the end of their lives but another part of me thinks it's OTT and even forced (the poppies in November).

Everywhere else seems far more reserved about it with remembrance.

With Britain it seems like it's something deeper to them than just remembrance.

Jizique

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Don't want this to come across the wrong way but will they ever move on?

I'm all for commemoration of important events and sacrifice but no other country goes that mad for remembering the World Wars.

It seemed so jingoistic and OTT today (but for the virus probably would have been more impressive) and it seems every month now there is some commemoration or other.

Part of me thinks it's good because so many are at the end of their lives but another part of me thinks it's OTT and even forced (the poppies in November).

Everywhere else seems far more reserved about it with remembrance.

With Britain it seems like it's something deeper to them than just remembrance.

They just can’t let go - I don’t remember it being such a big deal when I was younger, even under Thatcher, although I never really lived there.
There was always a bit of “2 world wars and one World Cup” around the soccer hools, but the whole poppy thing seems to have been taken to a new era.
Obviously Brexit has taken it to another level but they really do need to move on at this stage. It is the refuge of the rabid nationalist.

BrookieD

Jizique wrote: »

They just can’t let go - I don’t remember it being such a big deal when I was younger, even under Thatcher, although I never really lived there.
There was always a bit of “2 world wars and one World Cup” around the soccer hools, but the whole poppy thing seems to have been taken to a new era.
Obviously Brexit has taken it to another level but they really do need to move on at this stage. It is the refuge of the rabid nationalist.

It is important and rightfully so.. Thousands of men and women laid there life on the line to give you and I the freedom we enjoy today and most today cannot even stay at home and watch TV for the good of others and themselves, jesus wept

Also, please don't even, Ireland scored a goal 30odd years ago against England and its dragged up any chance you get.... wind it in. :rolleyes:

Zebra3

As Robert Fisk pointed out, the British have an unhealthy obsession with WWII because it's one of the few wars that they can see themselves as the good guys in.

Even then it's selective history. Writing out their genocide of millions in India from the history books.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Don't want this to come across the wrong way but will they ever move on?

I'm all for commemoration of important events and sacrifice but no other country goes that mad for remembering the World Wars.

It seemed so jingoistic and OTT today (but for the virus probably would have been more impressive) and it seems every month now there is some commemoration or other.

Part of me thinks it's good because so many are at the end of their lives but another part of me thinks it's OTT and even forced (the poppies in November).

Everywhere else seems far more reserved about it with remembrance.

With Britain it seems like it's something deeper to them than just remembrance.

Do you feel the same way abour ST Patrick's Day?

Unclebumble

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Don't want this to come across the wrong way but will they ever move on?

I'm all for commemoration of important events and sacrifice but no other country goes that mad for remembering the World Wars.

It seemed so jingoistic and OTT today (but for the virus probably would have been more impressive) and it seems every month now there is some commemoration or other.

Part of me thinks it's good because so many are at the end of their lives but another part of me thinks it's OTT and even forced (the poppies in November).

Everywhere else seems far more reserved about it with remembrance.

With Britain it seems like it's something deeper to them than just remembrance.

Just wondering why do you care ?
It’s on UK tv channels and In UK newspapers - it’s not aimed at you or Ireland.
I take it you haven’t checked out French or US Media?
I haven’t but wonder if the same is there?

I know there was meant to be a massive (and I mean massive) parade in Moscow tomorrow with Putin and Macron attending but this has been cancelled.

I could be wrong but just seems this thread is another Poppy bashing thread but started earlier than normal.

Central Services

The over-celebration helps drown out the annoying fact that it was the Soviet Union that beat Germany.

Montage of Feck

It's the 75th anniversary of monumental a event, why shouldn't it be marked? Especially as it will probably be the last major anniversary to be attended by participants.
Don't mix it up with the annual jingo fest that remembrance day has become.

Jizique

BrookieD wrote: »

It is important and rightfully so.. Thousands of men and women laid there life on the line to give you and I the freedom we enjoy today and most today cannot even stay at home and watch TV for the good of others and themselves, jesus wept

Also, please don't even, Ireland scored a goal 30odd years ago against England and its dragged up any chance you get.... wind it in. :rolleyes:

It may be important but not when they try to portray it as Victory over Europe day and brag it down to petty nationalism instead of remembering the role played by all other European (and American) allies in liberating the Germans.
I never mentioned football or rugby.
It is well captured in this tweet I saw today from an Australian trade expert (originally Russian, living in Geneva)
https://mobile.twitter.com/DmitryOpines/status/1258353865658896385

SCOOP 64

Don't know why it bothers anyone over here.

Bass Reeves

Central Services wrote: »

The over-celebration helps drown out the annoying fact that it was the Soviet Union that beat Germany.

Rubbish

MoonUnit75

I couldn’t begrudge them VE day. When you think about the events that are just now starting to fade from living memory like fire bombing cities almost every night, so many deaths and the entire country mobilised and under threat.

Drifter50

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Don't want this to come across the wrong way but will they ever move on?

I'm all for commemoration of important events and sacrifice but no other country goes that mad for remembering the World Wars.

It seemed so jingoistic and OTT today (but for the virus probably would have been more impressive) and it seems every month now there is some commemoration or other.

Part of me thinks it's good because so many are at the end of their lives but another part of me thinks it's OTT and even forced (the poppies in November).

Everywhere else seems far more reserved about it with remembrance.

With Britain it seems like it's something deeper to them than just remembrance.

There is so much more to this and it is important especially for the thousands of sons, daughters, relations whose family members were lost in the war. Both my parents were Irish and joined the British Armed Forces.
There was a commemoration ceremony in Paris today, that was treated with the reverence it deserved. The one in Moscow was cancelled. Both my parents clearly remembered the day the war in Europe ended and the huge sense of relief that day.Poppies are a major event for me in November and will remain so. It will be interesting to see the level of respect shown by the Americans for VJ day in a few weeks

If it bothers you leave it alone for everyone else and let them mark it in their own way. Just remember if it was`nt for the British sacrifices and standing firm against the Nazi`s, we might all be still under authoritarian rule

Joe_ Public

I like these commemorations purely for the opportunity it gives to see and hear these veterans for what is likely to be the last time for several of them. Never tire of listening to their stories and always humbling to hear what they went through. The lessons are right there if we ever want to take them on board.

Zebra3

Sure as hell won't be any commemorations for the millions Britain took freedom from and murdered around the globe.

riffmongous

Do they actually commemorate anything from the last 75 years? Russians too

Ipso

I wonder how long until "Hitler wasn't that bad" appears.

super_furry

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Don't want this to come across the wrong way but will they ever move on?

It's all they've got. They're a faded nation living on past glories who have been relegated to the status of lapdog to the big boys.

yosser hughes

super_furry wrote: »

It's all they've got. They're a faded nation living on past glories who have been relegated to the status of lapdog to the big boys.

How do you feel about Ireland's role during WW2?

Duff

Ipso wrote: »

I wonder how long until "Hitler wasn't that bad" appears.

Oh worse than Hitler. You wouldn't find Hitler playing jungle music at 3 o'clock in the morning.

Ben Done

The German President's speech to mark the day is well worth reading, particularly as some English papers were calling it 'Victory Over Europe' day..

https://www.bundespraesident.de/SharedDocs/Reden/EN/Frank-Walter-Steinmeier/Reden/2020/05/200508-75th-anniversary-World-War-II.html

JohnnyFlash

Best move this to the current affairs forum so the regulars can do their back and forth thing.

MoonUnit75

Zebra3 wrote: »

Sure as hell won't be any commemorations for the millions Britain took freedom from and murdered around the globe.

They aren’t all that remarkable in the historical context. Lots of other countries were as bad and many a lot worse. Belgians, French, Spanish, Dutch etc. You could go on and on.

super_furry

yosser hughes wrote: »

How do you feel about Ireland's role during WW2?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjJYYaeFNmQ

Edgware

Central Services wrote: »

The over-celebration helps drown out the annoying fact that it was the Soviet Union that beat Germany.

The Soviets only came to the Allies side after Hitler reneged on the Molotov Ribbentropp Pact and invaded the Soviet Union. Up until then they were busy grabbing half of Poland and murdering 20000 Poles at Katyn Wood.
The usual gob****es here will never accept the sacrifice made by the British. Probably too busy reading the fishwifes speech at the Nazi lovers commemoration.

riffmongous

Edgware wrote: »

The Soviets only came to the Allies side after Hitler reneged on the Molotov Ribbentropp Pact and invaded the Soviet Union. Up until then they were busy grabbing half of Poland and murdering 20000 Poles at Katyn Wood.
The usual gob****es here will never accept the sacrifice made by the British. Probably too busy reading the fishwifes speech at the Nazi lovers commemoration.

And of course the British leadership only came to the anti Nazi side after first sacrificing the Germans, the Austrians, the Spanish and the Czechoslovaks. They were happy enough to let the others die until they finally realised it was coming for them too.

joe40

Jizique wrote: »

They just can’t let go - I don’t remember it being such a big deal when I was younger, even under Thatcher, although I never really lived there.
There was always a bit of “2 world wars and one World Cup” around the soccer hools, but the whole poppy thing seems to have been taken to a new era.
Obviously Brexit has taken it to another level but they really do need to move on at this stage. It is the refuge of the rabid nationalist.

It's the last time Britain was important in the world stage, they want to hold onto that.
They were still an imperial nation at the time, keeping the empire together was still a major priority.

MoonUnit75

riffmongous wrote: »

And of course the British leadership only came to the anti Nazi side after first sacrificing the Germans, the Austrians, the Spanish and the Czechoslovaks. They were happy enough to let the others die until they finally realised it was coming for them too.

They weren’t the European police force. All countries except Germany wanted to avoid restarting the Great War. The force they sent to France was not half-hearted.

Pauliedragon

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Don't want this to come across the wrong way but will they ever move on?

I'm all for commemoration of important events and sacrifice but no other country goes that mad for remembering the World Wars.

It seemed so jingoistic and OTT today (but for the virus probably would have been more impressive) and it seems every month now there is some commemoration or other.

Part of me thinks it's good because so many are at the end of their lives but another part of me thinks it's OTT and even forced (the poppies in November).

Everywhere else seems far more reserved about it with remembrance.

With Britain it seems like it's something deeper to them than just remembrance.

And yet our national day is to celebrate a Welsh guy beating the crap out of snakes with a stick. Each to their own let people celebrate what they want.

riffmongous

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

They weren’t the European police force. All countries except Germany wanted to avoid restarting the Great War. The force they sent to France was not half-hearted.

Hold on now, they acted like they were. The Czechs weren't even invited to the talks that saw their own country sacrificed. It was the British who led the import embargos on Republican Spain while turning a blind eye to direct German and Italian involvement

PCeeeee

Edgware wrote: »

The Soviets only came to the Allies side after Hitler reneged on the Molotov Ribbentropp Pact and invaded the Soviet Union. Up until then they were busy grabbing half of Poland and murdering 20000 Poles at Katyn Wood.
The usual gob****es here will never accept the sacrifice made by the British. Probably too busy reading the fishwifes speech at the Nazi lovers commemoration.

One can accept the huge sacrifice and the bloody minded and terrific bravery of UK taking a stand against the Nazis while also understanding that the war was largely won elsewhere.

Any casual glance at the casualties sustained is informative. Churchill himself was clear in 1940 (and indeed before) about what he felt would be needed to defeat the nazis '

'if, which I do not for a moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old'

There is no question that the war was won by the USSR and latterly by the US. That is in no way to down play the role of the UK, there is really no other interpreptaion possible.