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Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

The census from 1933 is not disputed 9.5 million Jewish people lived in Europe in 1933.
After the war 3.5 million were left.
The memorial claim the 6 million were murdered because of the holocust. The stats don't lie.
It's is your belief the 6 million all got rounded up by Nazis and killed by shootings and gassing (during 1941 to 1945) end of story.

That's not the view

Why do you keep making this false claim?

It's like you are deliberately sabotaging any semblance of a debate here in order to go around in circles of your own making

As mentioned, if you want this explained to you, I am willing to explain, as long as you are willing to engage normally and reasonably.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

How is false claim Dohnjoe?

There was 9.5 Jewish people in Europe and Soviet union in 1933. Do you think there are missing millions?

For the third time, I am willing to explain. But you have to engage normally and be reasonable

Okay?

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Nothing stopping you from replying. You don't need me to tell you to go ahead.

Yes I do

You are being completely irrational. When you are willing to actually listen (read) what someone has to say, let me know

It's pretty straightforward, most people can manage it.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

You be posting that for the last hour. Just go ahead with the big revelation and we see what you have.

There's no "big revelation", and it's not "see what I have" - it's basic history, you can open any textbook or reference book on this

The first thing you need to do is stop thinking information like this is "personal" - it isn't.

There's no tricks to any of this either, its straight-forward stuff.

To start off with, you've made a change recently, to a slightly better viewpoint (albeit quite outdated), Reitlinger.

Have you read his book "The Final Solution"? If not, that's alright, but do you know how he put those estimates (4.2 to 4.5 million) together?

He's fundamentally doing it the same way modern historians are.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Yes, I read some pages of his book, last year.. free copies online. I had a glimpse again at his book. 

The near six million wiped out was the number the World Jewish Congress provided to the Nuremberg trial. He considers its overestimation because there was little trustworthy data available to affirm that six million number after the war

He stresses an Anglo-American group inquiry regarding the problems of European Jews and Palestine claimed 5.8 million Jewish dead in 1946.  There was a political outside influence angle of engagement to enlarge the number.

Based on his own research, some claims they made about the missing European Jews are sound and other claims he says are false!
He argued it was a sloppy way of determining Jews deaths, as they just placed it down as six million because that’s the amount of Jewish people missing from their former countries of residence!

Plus he mentioned the Soviet Union information about Jewish deaths is suspect and can’t be depended on. 
He also thinks many of the Polish Jews retreated to the Soviet union- as far away as (Siberia) and many died from, natural illness, Typhus, hunger and winter, and war and many Jews got caught up and died during the battle of Stalingrad and separate assaults on Soviet Cities... They were unregistered survivors in a foreign country and forgotten.. These deaths laid at the door of  the final solution incorrect.
Polish numbers are most difficult to calculate because of the war yet he put it down at 2 million +
He mentioned Emigration and other things, but i be here all day if i wrote up everything he said.

I just took just one screenshot to show he calculated at the end.

Disclaimer: I am not expert or buff, I just have an interest in WW2 and have read/watched a fair bit of material on the Holocaust

First and most importantly, if you have a genuine interest in the subject, you should be reading the whole book to get context, it doesn't make sense to leaf through a few pages. Reitlinger's info is considered quite outdated by this stage, there are modern books with more up to date info that you should be referencing (if you aren't into the denser history books, then one I have recently read is "Auschwitz; Nazi's and the 'Final Solution'" by Rees, which is very accessible and deals with the main camp complex)

Secondly you are going too far back with information from Nuremberg, and the early Soviet figures, etc. It's creating this big mess in your mind over the subject. The Cold war was descending, there were practical difficulties for researchers to access sites, there was propaganda and so on. Modern information will do.

Thirdly - Holocaust figures are broken down. Some count the early systematic murders and disappearances in Germany from 1933. Some start just after the outbreak of the war and other's start in the forties. Early killings were predominantly done by the Einsatzgruppen using a variety of methods. Camps became more prominent later, there were two types of camps: labour and extermination. Figures are mainly by camps (there were over 40,000 camps and ghettos). For example here are the current estimates. It's grim, but it's also important to note that there were many different ways people died in the Holocaust, for example, it wasn't uncommon for Jews and other groups to freeze or suffocate to death in the cattle carts they were transported in. Some entire trains were dead on arrival. For the camps themselves, likewise there many ways that people died, exposure, disease, suicide (in Treblinka it's estimated that at one point 15-20 SonderKommando killed themselves a night) As we drill down into details, some historians may include data that other historians don't. Some will use estimates where certain data is incomplete, whereas other historians will completely exclude estimates if the data isn't up to a certain level

What this means is that there are many different ways of calculating figures. Time is also a key factor. New evidence comes to light all the time, which means that a record published in e.g. 1970, may not have as much complete data as a record published in e.g. 1990.

So over time, and with all the historians and researchers, if we put all their estimates on a large scatter-plot, apart from some extremities, you'd see the majority put the figures of Jewish deaths at around 5.5 million to 6.2 million, or 6 million for short

If you have questions about the finer details (for genuine reasons), then I would suggest the history forum. Some posters on here know a decent bit (off the top of my head Tony_Eh). Outside of this site there is the Axis military forums, Reddit (r/history or r/askahistorian), and many others. Be warned, if they detect you are trolling or being pedantic, you can be banned