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Cheerful Spring2

King Mob wrote: »

.
The Nazis killed 6 million Jewish people during the holocaust.

They couldn't have the official stats, don't lie. I can't argue with someone who takes a position that no jews died in 8 years and 2 plus years of war.

Final solution began sometime in Jan 1942. You have to had six million jews cocooned somehow from events happenings taking place in the world back then, not sensible.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

You do believe all six million perished during the holocaust.

Again, you are misrpresenting my point. I think this is partially due to your poor writing and reading skills.

I don't believe that all of the 6 million specific people counted in the 1933 census were all specifically killed by the nazis.

I'm sure that between 1933 and 1945, some of those 9.5 million people died from other means like old age and natural illnesses.
Similarly, in that time more Jewish people were born as well.
And this is also true for the time between the end of the Holocaust and the next collection of census data.

However, 6 million Jewish people were killed by the nazis. This is a historical fact.
Did Jewish people also die of other things? Yes, but not in numbers that bring this number into dispute.
This is because historians, who do actual research know this and took it into account.

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I can't argue with someone who takes a position that no jews died in 8 years and 2 plus years of war.

I have never claimed this. That is not my position. You are misrepresenting me again.

I'm not sure if this is a particularly silly deliberate attempt to mischaracterise my position or if it's soemthing you genuinely believe.

Also, it's a bit rich coming from you, since you believe that 2 million Jewish people just winked out of existence for no reason.

Urethral Buttercup

Six million /two million, tomayto / tomato we'll never know.

Dohnjoe

Urethral Buttercup wrote: »

Six million /two million, tomayto / tomato we'll never know.

We do know. That's the thing.

Whether its flat-earthers, moon landing hoaxers, holocaust deniers - they are all the same, trying to get you to doubt plain facts.

Cheerful Spring2

Urethral Buttercup wrote: »

Six million /two million, tomayto / tomato we'll never know.

I not debating this subject anymore when (dohnjoe and kingmob they) refuse to listen other people's point of view about this.

Gerald Reitlinger
Provided his numbers and was 4.1+ million and said at the most 4.4+


This an acknowledgement of his work
Read the first line (confirms his findings are not outdated)

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I not debating this subject anymore when (dohnjoe and kingmob they) refuse to listen other people's point of view about this.

Cheerful, we've been doing nothing but try to get you to elaborate on your own views as someone who hasn't done any research and isn't a historian.

I prefer to listen to qualified people.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Gerald Reitlinger
Provided his numbers and was 4.1+ million and said at the most 4.4+

Again, this is 70 year old research.

And the quote you provide is from 1979.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4467046?seq=1

Note also how it does not at all agree with your other claims that 2 million Jewish people just vanished.

Also, FYI, when some one is rounding a number, you round 4.19 to 4.2, not 4.1. You are being disingenuous there.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I not debating this subject anymore when (dohnjoe and kingmob they) refuse to listen other people's point of view about this.

It's nothing to do with people's views here, it's historical fact. You're trying to revise that in order to diminish the number of Jews dead during the Holocaust - which is disturbing behaviour

You don't dare do this on history forums. You have zero genuine interest in the subject. You parrot Holocaust denial arguments endlessly. You claimed only 2.5 million were killed, and as that bull**** was exposed, you revised the figures upwards.

It's one of the more ****ed up hobbies I've witnessed. And yes, you will be back with your denial, I guarantee it

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's nothing to do with people's views here, it's historical fact. You're trying to revise that in order to diminish the number of Jews dead during the Holocaust - which is disturbing behaviour

You don't dare do this on history forums. You have zero genuine interest in the subject. You parrot Holocaust denial arguments endlessly. You claimed only 2.5 million were killed, and as that bull**** was exposed, you revised the figures upwards.

It's one of the more ****ed up hobbies I've witnessed. And yes, you will be back with your denial, I guarantee it

Not historical fact. Gerald Reitlinger knew the reported number back then and was six million. It not like he thought was 4 millon and stuck to the number.

nullzero

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's nothing to do with people's views here, it's historical fact. You're trying to revise that in order to diminish the number of Jews dead during the Holocaust - which is disturbing behaviour

You don't dare do this on history forums. You have zero genuine interest in the subject. You parrot Holocaust denial arguments endlessly. You claimed only 2.5 million were killed, and as that bull**** was exposed, you revised the figures upwards.

It's one of the more ****ed up hobbies I've witnessed. And yes, you will be back with your denial, I guarantee it

Cheerful spring is hardly influencing popular opinion one person on a forum with an opinion isn't so disturbing that you'd dedicate an entire week to arguing with them. Your own hobby is hardly normal either, seriously the behavior displayed here is bizarre. You're demanding facts and evidence from other users and when you're challenged to do the same you can't comply.

Your opinions differ, you're unlikely to convince each other of anything and yet here you are three days later still having the same argument. The mind boggles. My only conclusion is that you lot actually love each other and would have nothing to do without these arguments

Cheerful Spring2

nullzero wrote: »

Cheerful spring is hardly influencing popular opinion one person on a forum with an opinion isn't so disturbing that you'd dedicate an entire week to arguing with them. Your own hobby is hardly normal either, seriously the behavior displayed here is bizarre. You're demanding facts and evidence from other users and when you're challenged to do the same you can't comply.

Your opinions differ, you're unlikely to convince each other of anything and yet here you are three days later still having the same argument. The mind boggles. My only conclusion is that you lot actually love each other and would have nothing to do without these arguments

My only conclusion is that you lot actually love each other and would have nothing to do without these arguments ( his probably alright guy if i met in person):D

King Mob

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Not historical fact. Gerald Reitlinger knew the reported number back then and was six million. It not like he thought was 4 millon and stuck to the number.

Again, that was 70 years ago.
And also again, he doesn't agree with your other claims.

And also again, there's hundreds more holocaust historians, all much more modern with much more information. You ignore them.
You can't elaborate on why, but I speculate this is because you believe it's a Jewish lead conspiracy.

Cheerful Spring2

nullzero my main problem with their argument they don't understand Reiltiger had the six million number in his head from the beginning. It was reported number in 1947 6 million died.

He found no evidence for 6 million killed during the holocaust.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Not historical fact.

Its historical fact.

You can reference it in any proper history book or encyclopedia

Gerald Reitlinger knew the reported number back then and was six million. It not like he thought was 4 millon and stuck to the number.

Reitliner's numbers are outdated. Which is why they are not quoted or used in modern figures. Which is why when you google this information, every proper reference comes up with the modern figures. A child could understand this. This has been explained to you repeatedly, but you deliberately "don't get it", because it results in you not being able to downgrade the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust.

Which is your only interest in this subject.

Dohnjoe

nullzero wrote: »

Cheerful spring is hardly influencing popular opinion one person on a forum

Never mentioned that.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

nullzero my main problem with their argument they don't understand Reiltiger had the six million number in his head from the beginning. It was reported number in 1947 6 million died.

He found no evidence for 6 million killed during the holocaust.

You started off claiming only 2.5 million to 3 million died. You've since revised that because you found another (lazier) way of denial via outdated figures.

nullzero

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Never mentioned that.

Never gave me the evidence I asked you for either. Swings and roundabouts I suppose.

Dohnjoe

nullzero wrote: »

Never gave me the evidence I asked you for either. Swings and roundabouts I suppose.

Depends, Holocaust denier? no prob, you'll even create an "out card" for them, it's just an "opinion you disagree with"

Come across another opinion you disagree with, you're like a dog with a bone who can't let it go. Interesting.

Maybe I am completely wrong but I think that speaks for itself in the thread

And are we way off topic here? of course we are, but every thread in this forum is typically a dumpster fire

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Depends, Holocaust denier? no prob, you'll even create an "out card" for them, it's just an "opinion you disagree with"

Come across another opinion you disagree with, you're like a dog with a bone who can't let it go. Interesting.

Maybe I am completely wrong but I think that speaks for itself in the thread

And are we way off topic here? of course we are, but every thread in this forum is typically a dumpster fire

Who are you?
Again Gerald Reitiliger said was 4 million.
His a holocaust denier, since he dropped 6 million (4 miliion)
I think he knows more then you and I.
You will rant and rave all day if someone drops the number below 6
Nobody stole the jam out from from your doughnuts, chill.
It slightly odd an Irishman cares this much about the holocust number.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Again Gerald Reitiliger said was 4 million.[//quote]

Reitlinger estimated 4.2 to 4.5 million in 1953. Yet you deliberately keep (deliberately) misrepresenting even his lowest estimate.

Why would you do that?

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Reitlinger estimated 4.2 to 4.5 million in 1953. Yet you deliberately keep (deliberately) misrepresenting even his lowest estimate.

Why would you do that?

4,194 was, not 4,.2. Scholars round of 4.2, again another lie.

He says there some problems, with 4.5 ( with new evidence, be around that)

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

4,194 was, not 4,.2.

Yes but you are resorting to being pedantic.

4.2 million is his lower estimate. You wrote 4 million. Normally I'd assume it was a mistake, but you've consistently done it through the thread.

During the 1950s he wrote two books about the Holocaust: The SS: Alibi of a Nation and The Final Solution, both of which achieved large sales. In the latter book, he alleged that Soviet claims of the Auschwitz death toll being 4 million were "ridiculous", and he suggested an alternative figure of 800,000 to 900,000 dead; about 4.2 to 4.5 million was his estimate for the total number of Jewish deaths in the Holocaust.[2] Subsequent scholarship has generally increased Reitlinger's conservative figures for death tolls, though his book was still described in 1979 as being "widely regarded as a definitive account".[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Reitlinger

The only reason I can think that you are so fixated with Reitlinger is because he's the historian with the lowest figures. And to you, he's become infallible, because you are clearly obsessed with downplaying the figures of Jewish deaths only

All of this is further bolstered by the fact that you downplay even Reitlinger's figures in this thread, multiple times.

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Yes but you are resorting to being pedantic.

4.2 million is his lower estimate. You wrote 4 million. Normally I'd assume it was a mistake, but you've consistently done it through the thread.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Reitlinger

The only reason I can think that you are so fixated with Reitlinger is because he's the historian with the lowest figures. And to you, he's become infallible, because you are clearly obsessed with downplaying the figures of Jewish deaths only

All of this is further bolstered by the fact that you downplay even Reitlinger's figures in this thread, multiple times.

I never trusted the six million figure. I pointed it out to you why in this thread.
You now claiming Reitlinger could not identify approximately two million Jews got killed? Your brain that make sense?
Even though we know Reitlnger was well aware of the reported 6 million died when he wrote the book?

nullzero

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Depends, Holocaust denier? no prob, you'll even create an "out card" for them, it's just an "opinion you disagree with"

Come across another opinion you disagree with, you're like a dog with a bone who can't let it go. Interesting.

Maybe I am completely wrong but I think that speaks for itself in the thread

And are we way off topic here? of course we are, but every thread in this forum is typically a dumpster fire

I never gave anyone an "out card". I stated that I disagreed with the man and stated that in my opinion he has the right to be wrong.

The issue I had with you and King Mob was your insistence that I was agreeing with something I clearly stated that I disagreed with. Then when you both were asked to provide evidence to support your claims you were conspicuously silent.

This thread has been off topic all week and you're correct in saying its a dumpster fire. However as you and King Mob have been largely influential in making it a dumpster fire perhaps you should both reevaluate what you contribute here beyond pursuing you crusade to be seen to be right in pointless arguments with people whose opinions are by your own admission not worthy of attention. In point of fact the only people I've seen give this topic attention is you two, you keep it going long after everyone else has agreed to disagree. Seriously what the hell do you get out of posting on these topics?

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I never trusted the six million figure. I pointed it out to you why in this thread.

You trust all the other figures.

You've admitted you've never read a book on the Holocaust, so why are you so interested in Jewish Holocaust history, specifically revising it, the death figures, downwards?

Where does all this come from?

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe will come along now and claim the two million was found later. It just sillyness anyone could misplace two million people.

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You trust all the other figures.

You've admitted you've never read a book on the Holocaust, so why are you so interested in Jewish Holocaust history, specifically revising it, the death figures, downwards?

Where does all this come from?

You guys focused in on the Jewish holocaust. You brought it up first in the thread and brought me into the conversation (without asking and I replied.

I'm all for things being reported accurately. Reason i post about JFK, 9/11 and UFOS, I believe the true reality kept from us!

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Dohnjoe will come along now and claim the two million was found later. It just sillyness anyone could misplace two million people.

No idea what you are talking about.

If you have an issue with modern history (this information comes from modern historians). Then go go a history forum, or ask a historian on the subject.

The fact that you don't seem to be willing to seek information in any honest way also demonstrates that you aren't genuine, at all

Dohnjoe

nullzero wrote: »

IHowever as you and King Mob have been largely influential in making it a dumpster fire (...)

Thank you

(...) Seriously what the hell do you get out of posting on these topics?

I've said it many times before, any of us who debate against this type of nonsense must be sadists. And this is nothing compared to proper conspiracy and holocaust denial forums.

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

No idea what you are talking about.

l

You do know. You noticed your argument was flawed.
Reitliger somehow misplaced near 2 million Jews? Explain how that happened?