How will schools be able to go back in September?

average_runner · 13-04-2020 8:48am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If they won't let leaving cert happen until late July or early August, with all the issues that throws up, you can put your money on no return for primary until September. In my opinion the governments nondisclosure of this yet is to keep the head on parents of those children.

Primary schools are opening in Denmark

average_runner · 13-04-2020 8:49am

cart man wrote: »

Many with a young family share the same wishful thinking.
The reality is that they will be the last back. The younger kids would be the less disciplined at washing hands, using tissues etc, it would be a hot bed for transmission.

First back in Denmark and Austria. If they pick it up it's easier to trace

ceadaoin. · 13-04-2020 8:55am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Despite the official figures, there is likely to be tens of thousands of people here who have/had it. By September, that is likely to be hundreds of thousands. The spread of the virus will have changed by then. The death rate will also have changed. You can't predict what will happen in September based on the current situation, things will be different then.

I predict it will be pretty much life as usual by September. You can quote this post if I'm completely wrong.

mirrorwall14 · 13-04-2020 9:02am

average_runner wrote: »

First back in Denmark and Austria. If they pick it up it's easier to trace

This is my thinking. That age also have the biggest impact on parents ability to work and the aim should be to get as many working as possible

SnowyMuckish · 13-04-2020 9:09am

It’ll be interesting to see what impact it will have on Austria and Denmark. At least they’re trail blazing and we can learn from what happens there. If all but the LC is cancelled here, I can’t imagine they would open primary schools before September. Even if we are back, there are a lot of unanswered questions, how can children progress to the next class bracket without having completed the previous year? Even with the best will in the world, there will be those in disadvantaged situations who won’t have done any work in the time off. It’s going to be interesting.

average_runner · 13-04-2020 9:11am

SnowyMuckish wrote: »

It’ll be interesting to see what impact it will have on Austria and Denmark. At least they’re trail blazing and we can learn from what happens there. If all but the LC is cancelled here, I can’t imagine they would open primary schools before September. Even if we are back, there are a lot of unanswered questions, how can children progress to the next class bracket without having completed the previous year? Even with the best will in the world, there will be those in disadvantaged situations who won’t have done any work in the time off. It’s going to be interesting.

My kids are un first class and third class. School has already told us their plans. Most of the year is completed by end of March. Anything they missed, they will do it in first month back.

Also the kids are doing their daily homework at home

El_Duderino 09 · 13-04-2020 9:18am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Probably by that stage we’ll need to start moving forward, with or without Covid 19.

Maybe, maybe not. If they go ahead a o open schools, we will all have to accept there will be a spike in transmission and more people will die. Maybe people will be happy with that scenario by then.

But let's be honest about it; without a vaccine, letting people out in 3/4/5/6 month will be exactly the same as letting them out right now. And maybe they will need to increase transmission rate because at the current rate of transom, it will take years, not months for every to get it. So the only way this thing can end within a year is if we get a vaccine, mass produce it and roll it out to the entire country or, just let everyone out assuming they will get it and accept that lots of people will die. Or else we just hubker down and it could take a few years for everyone to get it.

I'm not advocating for either approach. I'm just saying they're the options and they take closer to a year than a couple of months.

Boggles · 13-04-2020 9:25am

They can aspire to open what they choose, that doesn't mean the populous will comply.

Large amounts of people and business brought in measures and shutdown before the governance got the finger out.

irishgeo · 13-04-2020 9:26am

We dont need a vaccine to open schools. Maybe a drug will come out that will reduce the Corona symptoms to nothing more than a few days in bed.

Vince135792003 · 13-04-2020 9:29am

average_runner wrote: »

Most of the year is completed by end of March. Anything they missed, they will do it in first month back.

I am a primary teacher. I think most will cope and catch up.

However, there would be children in my class who would be very weak academically and would not be supported by their parents at home. I'd worry greatly about them moving on a year.

An already big gap between them and their peers could have really widened in 6 months, if they haven't been doing any of the basics (literacy and numeracy) in that time.

I would love it if schools were given the option to offer a minority of children the chance to repeat a year, subject to their parents agreement. Not that, that would be a perfect solution either but it's the vulnerable and weak children who will be impacted most by this.

I also think, where possible, a primary teacher should continue on with the class they had. Time will be of the essence and the "getting to know you stage" in September when you have a new class is not really the best use of time in my mind. We need to hit the ground running and children need teachers who already know where each child is at academically, emotionally and socially.

SnowyMuckish · 13-04-2020 9:29am

Vince135792003 wrote: »

I am a primary teacher. I think most will cope and catch up.

However, there would be children in my class who would be very weak academically and would not be supported by their parents at home. I'd worry greatly about them moving on a year.

An already big gap between them and their peers could have really widened in 6 months, if they haven't been doing any of the basics (literacy and numeracy) in that time.

I would love it if schools were given the option to offer a minority of children the chance to repeat a year, subject to their parents agreement.

I’m in the same boat. Sometimes even after short gaps like Christmas and Easter they can regress. I’m currently on maternity but from my class last year there is a large cohort that simply wouldn’t have access to technology or come from families were education isn’t a priority. The gap will widen for these children. It’s going to take a lot work to try to pull them up and carry on with the curriculum as well. Would love if these children were able to repeat but I can’t see this happening either as each class is at capacity therefore no space! We’ll just have to wait and see if we’re back come Sept. There’s not going to be any magic bullet unfortunately.

Ray Donovan · 13-04-2020 9:31am

youandme13 wrote: »

I know parents have to work etc, but creches are worse places for spreading of viruses etc. How can you have 12 two year old with 2 adults and expect them to social distance?

Schools would be easier to control this as they are older and would understand.

Have you been in an Irish primary school lately?? Highest class sizes in Europe! How do you expect social distancing to work with 35 students crammed into a classroom?

Pete_Cavan · 13-04-2020 9:37am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Maybe, maybe not. If they go ahead a o open schools, we will all have to accept there will be a spike in transmission and more people will die. Maybe people will be happy with that scenario by then.

But let's be honest about it; without a vaccine, letting people out in 3/4/5/6 month will be exactly the same as letting them out right now. And maybe they will need to increase transmission rate because at the current rate of transom, it will take years, not months for every to get it. So the only way this thing can end within a year is if we get a vaccine, mass produce it and roll it out to the entire country or, just let everyone out assuming they will get it and accept that lots of people will die. Or else we just hubker down and it could take a few years for everyone to get it.

I'm not advocating for either approach. I'm just saying they're the options and they take closer to a year than a couple of months.

When you say lots of people will die, how many do you mean? The death rate is not constant, it will decrease over time. If the health care system gets overrun with extreme numbers of cases in a short period, deaths go through the roof. This is not the case if the health system is coping with a steady number of cases within capacity constraints. You can talk about letting people die but that is already happening and happened every day before Covid-19.

The rate of spread is also not constant over time, as more people get infected, the more who recover and develop antibodies, the less people who will get it later. It's all about slowing the rate of spread so the health system copes. There is also another side to the equation: what are the other consequences of slowing the spread? There are numerous other problems building in the background which combined will have severe consequences too.

ml100 · 13-04-2020 9:50am

The chan chan man wrote: »

On one hand, they can’t open in sept if there is no mass produced vaccine, which there wont be. To open the schools then would mean all of this has been pointless.

On the other hand, my view is we cant keep this up long term without this resulting in civil unrest/mental health issues/widespread unemployment etc. i know 4 people now who have had it (all under 60) and it hasnt even been that bad for them! The people dying had no more than 5-7 years left anyway at best! I know others over 80 who couldnt care less - they know something’s gonna get them sooner or later!

As such, i would question if we should just move on with life and whatever happens happens... I’m not even sure if I agree with myself...but its a question the world needs to ask itself at some stage. And even if we do, again, this has all been in vain.

And I've heard of someone in their thirties with no underlining conditions that has died from it, a lot more information will be required before any decisions on schools can be made, an antiviral which would keep people from dying would be a game changer and will hopefully be available before a vaccine would be ready.

El_Duderino 09 · 13-04-2020 9:51am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

When you say lots of people will die, how many do you mean? The death rate is not constant, it will decrease over time. If the health care system gets overrun with extreme numbers of cases in a short period, deaths go through the roof. This is not the case if the health system is coping with a steady number of cases within capacity constraints. You can talk about letting people die but that is already happening and happened every day before Covid-19.

The rate of spread is also not constant over time, as more people get infected, the more who recover and develop antibodies, the less people who will get it later. It's all about slowing the rate of spread so the health system copes. There is also another side to the equation: what are the other consequences of slowing the spread? There are numerous other problems building in the background which combined will have severe consequences too.

Yeah I mean when the health system.gets overrun, then lots more people will die. Under the current lockdown conditions, the health service is coping bso the probably need to speed up transmission rates to reach the maximum the health service can cope with. Thst might mean letting people pit so they can catch it and spread it, but then quickly lock down again so the rate stays as close as possible to health service capacity.

And people getting it and being immune is a factor, fair point. It would allow a the restrictions to be relaxed for a little longer before being tightened again. If 40,000 people a week get it in Ireland, how long would it take for everyone get it with a population of 5m? How long for herd Immunity at about 2/3?. Work it out. In either case were talking at least a year and I've no idea if the health service could deal with the acute cases out of those 40,000 a week getting it.

Alex86Eire · 13-04-2020 9:58am

As mentioned already, social distancing cannot be done in schools the way they are currently set up. I come into contact with 200+ students per day. What happens in September if one of our students is showing symptoms? Do all 800 staff and students have to self isolate?
We'd have a number of kids who are immunocompromised so I worry about them.

The Junior Cycle exams aren't being held along with the Leaving Cert due to social distancing. The idea that schools will open only 2-ish weeks later with 6 full year groups just isn't conceivable to me.
Here's hoping though.

Phoenix Wright · 13-04-2020 10:02am

What will happen with universities? Will they open during the summer when students are not present (any summer schools cancelled) and stay open in September for any students not starting 1st year? Or will the entire academic year be pushed back across all education levels and years?

Pete_Cavan · 13-04-2020 10:09am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If 40,000 people a week get it in Ireland, how long would it take for everyone get it with a population of 5m? How long for herd Immunity at about 2/3?. Work it out. In either case were talking at least a year and I've no idea if the health service could deal with the acute cases out of those 40,000 a week getting it.

Again, the situation changes over time. More hospital capacity and improved treatment will keep more people alive. Cacooning and new procedures to protect nursing homes should flatten the number of severe cases which take up a lot of resources. If the high risk people are protected to the greatest extent possible, then the remainder of the population will put less strain on the health service.

trapp · 13-04-2020 10:23am

Alex86Eire wrote: »

As mentioned already, social distancing cannot be done in schools the way they are currently set up. I come into contact with 200+ students per day. What happens in September if one of our students is showing symptoms? Do all 800 staff and students have to self isolate?
We'd have a number of kids who are immunocompromised so I worry about them.

The Junior Cycle exams aren't being held along with the Leaving Cert due to social distancing. The idea that schools will open only 2-ish weeks later with 6 full year groups just isn't conceivable to me.
Here's hoping though.

Staggered timetables with one day per week of school for each pupil perhaps.

average_runner · 13-04-2020 10:34am

Vince135792003 wrote: »

I am a primary teacher. I think most will cope and catch up.

However, there would be children in my class who would be very weak academically and would not be supported by their parents at home. I'd worry greatly about them moving on a year.

An already big gap between them and their peers could have really widened in 6 months, if they haven't been doing any of the basics (literacy and numeracy) in that time.

I would love it if schools were given the option to offer a minority of children the chance to repeat a year, subject to their parents agreement. Not that, that would be a perfect solution either but it's the vulnerable and weak children who will be impacted most by this.

I also think, where possible, a primary teacher should continue on with the class they had. Time will be of the essence and the "getting to know you stage" in September when you have a new class is not really the best use of time in my mind. We need to hit the ground running and children need teachers who already know where each child is at academically, emotionally and socially.

My son's teacher reaches out every school day to them, sometimes she asks for an email and a picture. Doing a zoom thing next week just for all to chat.

Principal reaches out alot also. Very impress by them.

You have raised a valid point there though.

average_runner · 13-04-2020 10:45am

Ray Donovan wrote: »

Have you been in an Irish primary school lately?? Highest class sizes in Europe! How do you expect social distancing to work with 35 students crammed into a classroom?

We wont be looking at social distancing within schools. Kids will still be kept away from grand parents but the idea is if a kid gets it, it be limited to that community, traceable and herd community.

Offices will have social distancing, more hot desks now and that will save companies money on rent and ease pressure on public transport

iguana · 13-04-2020 10:47am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

We couldn't live with polio we couldn't live with measles etc. We can't live with this. It would collapse our society before we evolved to have immunity.

Except we did live with polio and we did live with measles. Ireland didn't even introduce the MMR until 1985. Before that kids like me got the measles, mumps and rubella. The vast majority of us felt horrible for a week or so with measles and maybe a bit uncomfortable with mumps and rubella. And the rest of the world continued as normal. Unfortunately some people were not so lucky and it's good that we now have a way to keep those illnesses suppressed to protect the vulnerable. But we did live with them, life went on, society continued.

An illness that makes the vast, vast majority of people mildly sick for a few weeks, at worst, will not collapse society. As a society, we can and will live with it, if we have to. We will protect our vulnerable as much as we can. Scientists will work rapidly towards a vaccine and we are so, so lucky to live in a time where that is possible. But in the meantime, we are going to have to live with this for a while.

average_runner · 13-04-2020 10:50am

iguana wrote: »

Except we did live with polio and we did live with measles. Ireland didn't even introduce the MMR until 1985. Before that kids like me got the measles, mumps and rubella. The vast majority of us felt horrible for a week or so with measles and maybe a bit uncomfortable with mumps and rubella. And the rest of the world continued as normal. Unfortunately some people were not so lucky and it's good that we now have a way to keep those illnesses suppressed to protect the vulnerable. But we did live with them, life went on, society continued.

An illness that makes the vast, vast majority of people mildly sick for a few weeks, at worst, will not collapse society. As a society, we can and will live with it, if we have to. We will protect our vulnerable as much as we can. Scientists will work rapidly towards a vaccine and we are so, so lucky to live in a time where that is possible. But in the meantime, we are going to have to live with this for a while.

Exactly only be 1.8m in the world has it and 200,000 died. Very small number

youandme13 · 13-04-2020 10:54am

Ray Donovan wrote: »

Have you been in an Irish primary school lately?? Highest class sizes in Europe! How do you expect social distancing to work with 35 students crammed into a classroom?

Yes I am aware thanks,, my sons primary school has over 1000 students alone! What I was saying is older children understand more about whats happening and the importance of hand washing etc compared to younger children.

wirelessdude01 · 13-04-2020 11:03am

youandme13 wrote: »

Yes I am aware thanks,, my sons primary school has over 1000 students alone! What I was saying is older children understand more about whats happening and the importance of hand washing etc compared to younger children.

Majority of kids don't wash their hands properly and as for social distancing in schools ðŸ˜‚ðŸ€” Can you imaging kids who haven't seen each other in months staying 2m apart? Not a hope in hell.

average_runner · 13-04-2020 11:21am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Majority of kids don't wash their hands properly and as for social distancing in schools ðŸ˜‚ðŸ€” Can you imaging kids who haven't seen each other in months staying 2m apart? Not a hope in hell.

There wont be any social distancing in schools. Not sure why you think there would be

iguana · 13-04-2020 11:37am

average_runner wrote: »

Exactly only be 1.8m in the world has it and 200,000 died. Very small number

Tbh, I'd be very, very surprised if the amount of confirmed cases is any true indication of the amount of actual infected cases. Most people with symptoms, outside of a number of Asian countries, have not been able to access testing. The infection rate is almost certainly many multiples higher than the amount of confirmed cases. But with that, the mortality rate is then quite a lot lower.

El_Duderino 09 · 13-04-2020 11:40am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Again, the situation changes over time. More hospital capacity and improved treatment will keep more people alive. Cacooning and new procedures to protect nursing homes should flatten the number of severe cases which take up a lot of resources. If the high risk people are protected to the greatest extent possible, then the remainder of the population will put less strain on the health service.

Sure. But in any case were looking at at least a year of this. The solution might come with a vaccine or treatment. Estimates for a vaccine are about a year IF everything goes to plan and I haven't even heard optimistic rumours of a an anti-viral treatment so I wouldn't rely on that. Once they developed an effective vaccination, they have to mass produce it and distribute it.

Even.if we could get to 50,000 people a week getting it and the health service could cope, you’re still talking 2 years for everyone to get it and about 15 or 16 months to reach the two thirds for heard immunity to kick in.

In other words the likely ways through it are all at least a year away.

Murple · 13-04-2020 11:51am

I hope they don't rush to open schools too soon. Hopes or expectations of maintaining social distancing rules are pointless and only those with little experience of young children could think otherwise. Even visualising what school would be like if you had to spend the day enforcing 2 metre distance between children (apart from the fact that to have 2 metres between everyone in a classroom would mean only 4-6 children at a time). I think that would be very upsetting for children- sitting 2 metres from their classmates, no playing together, teacher can't come near your desk to help you, child can't go near the teacher either, collection and drop off a nightmare... Even seeing children out and about with their family at the moment and you can see how they just won't get it. Think about how people are advised to clean their shopping when they get in. What would happen with school equipment?
Saying that children will have to stay at home with any symptoms- it just won't happen. We had a vomiting bug sweep through the school in December. We had 75% of some classes absent and yet we still had children sent in only to be sent home at 9:15 as they were obviously unwell. We had parents phoned by 9:30 in some cases and the children weren't collected until the afternoon. On one day we had 6 teachers absent and no subs were available. Even that issue- a sub teacher in one school one day and another the next and another school later in the week. At the moment if we have no sub, we split a class. How could we do that?
The suggestion of having children attend one day a week, presumably on a rota, would be very difficult to organise if attempting to ensure that any children in one family in the same school attend on the same day. You could also have a situation where a family has children in several schools and each child attending on a different day. How does that help with getting people back to work? If crèches aren't open, there's no after school either. It's not as simple as people make out. I would also feel that if schools reopen in a format that is drastically different to the norm, that it could be a far more unsettling experience for children than continuing remote learning.
I don't know the solution but I think as we just had the highest number yet testing positive, we are risking undoing everything achieved over the last few weeks. It will have to happen at some time but recent articles talking about reopening schools in a few weeks are I hope premature.

uli84 · 13-04-2020 11:54am

September? How people are supposed to work if the schools are closed? sweden is not doing much worse with Primary schools and creches opened

Sober Crappy Chemis · 13-04-2020 11:56am

uli84 wrote: »

September? How people are supposed to work if the schools are closed?

They are educators, not childminders.

trapp · 13-04-2020 12:00pm

Murple wrote: »

I hope they don't rush to open schools too soon. Hopes or expectations of maintaining social distancing rules are pointless and only those with little experience of young children could think otherwise. Even visualising what school would be like if you had to spend the day enforcing 2 metre distance between children (apart from the fact that to have 2 metres between everyone in a classroom would mean only 4-6 children at a time). I think that would be very upsetting for children- sitting 2 metres from their classmates, no playing together, teacher can't come near your desk to help you, child can't go near the teacher either, collection and drop off a nightmare... Even seeing children out and about with their family at the moment and you can see how they just won't get it. Think about how people are advised to clean their shopping when they get in. What would happen with school equipment?
Saying that children will have to stay at home with any symptoms- it just won't happen. We had a vomiting bug sweep through the school in December. We had 75% of some classes absent and yet we still had children sent in only to be sent home at 9:15 as they were obviously unwell. We had parents phoned by 9:30 in some cases and the children weren't collected until the afternoon. On one day we had 6 teachers absent and no subs were available. Even that issue- a sub teacher in one school one day and another the next and another school later in the week. At the moment if we have no sub, we split a class. How could we do that?
The suggestion of having children attend one day a week, presumably on a rota, would be very difficult to organise if attempting to ensure that any children in one family in the same school attend on the same day. You could also have a situation where a family has children in several schools and each child attending on a different day. How does that help with getting people back to work? If crèches aren't open, there's no after school either. It's not as simple as people make out. I would also feel that if schools reopen in a format that is drastically different to the norm, that it could be a far more unsettling experience for children than continuing remote learning.
I don't know the solution but I think as we just had the highest number yet testing positive, we are risking undoing everything achieved over the last few weeks. It will have to happen at some time but recent articles talking about reopening schools in a few weeks are I hope premature.

Some very valid points there.

I would say though that it wouldn't be difficult to ensure children in the same family all attend on the one day. At most there might be 4 children from the one family in a school.

It has to be said though that waiting for school to return as normal and as before is unrealistic as that won't be possible. The normal we knew isn't possible until a vaccine in a few years.

While working from home, principals and teachers and the department of education need to come up viable solutions to current situation allowing hopefully a reopening in some form in January.

Waiting for everything to be completely normal again could be a wait of a few years.

LilyShame · 13-04-2020 12:07pm

Yes teachers are educators.. And even the juniors spend 4.5 hours in a learning environment with their peers, every day 5 days a week in school. This is supported by breakfast clubs and afterschool clubs, taking some children up to 9 hours out a day. Private childcare providers might be up for supporting some basic curriculum over the summer months. Particularly as some afterschools are small. I know two in my area that want to get back to work and would facilitate it. Not sure how the fees would work...would probably need more state aid!

I see some 6 year olds wash hands very effectively, but yes agree social distancing 6 year olds is not easy!

We all need to think more creatively about this problem.. There has to be a way forward to educate young kids without assuming everyone has WiFi and own laptops.

Again, very concerned that we would all just assume... Schools close til September... Let's see how the nordics get on in next few weeks.

ml100 · 13-04-2020 12:08pm

They are going to have to come up with something, no way the county can continue indefinitely to pay teachers who are not working, most kids from 1st or 2nd class on could use a tablet to access some online work, cheaper to buy tablets for the kids that don't have them than do nothing for the next year!

trapp · 13-04-2020 12:11pm

LilyShame wrote: »

Yes teachers are educators.. And even the juniors spend 4.5 hours in a learning environment with their peers, every day 5 days a week in school. This is supported by breakfast clubs and afterschool clubs, taking some children up to 9 hours out a day. Private childcare providers might be up for supporting some basic curriculum over the summer months. Particularly as some afterschools are small. I know two in my area that want to get back to work and would facilitate it. Not sure how the fees would work...would probably need more state aid!

I see some 6 year olds wash hands very effectively, but yes agree social distancing 6 year olds is not easy!

We all need to think more creatively about this problem.. There has to be a way forward to educate young kids without assuming everyone has WiFi and own laptops.

Again, very concerned that we would all just assume... Schools close til September... Let's see how the nordics get on in next few weeks.

Exactly.

There is no point in principals and the department waiting for a return to normal that could be years away.

A good use of this time would be to think of solutions for the coming year.

And online learning is not a solution.

jrosen · 13-04-2020 12:13pm

Something will have to be done. We have had no contact from our primary schools since shut down. No guidance and no support to parents. There was one page uploaded to the school site initially with english and math works to be done in workbooks for the 2 weeks, maybe 40 mins work per day. Plus a project. Then another page uploaded with suggested websites to use.

There is no way this is acceptable long term without real impact to the kids that attend this school.

trapp · 13-04-2020 12:13pm

ml100 wrote: »

They are going to have to come up with something, no way the county can continue indefinitely to pay teachers who are not working, most kids from 1st or 2nd class on could use a tablet to access some online work, cheaper to buy tablets for the kids that don't have them than do nothing for the next year!

Almost impossible to teach new concepts and give constructive feedback in Maths, teach a language etc online and not in person.

Even if procedures could be in place for each child to attend school one day per week and then work at home to revise their learning on the other days.

trapp · 13-04-2020 12:15pm

jrosen wrote: »

Something will have to be done. We have had no contact from our primary schools since shut down. No guidance and no support to parents. There was one page uploaded to the school site initially with english and math works to be done in workbooks for the 2 weeks, maybe 40 mins work per day. Plus a project. Then another page uploaded with suggested websites to use.

There is no way this is acceptable long term without real impact to the kids that attend this school.

Agree.

I will say however that online learning is not suitable for primary school. Any work at home would just be revision or work to keep busy.

Real learning needs teaching in a school setting.

Even things like motivation, effort and so on depend on being in school.

irishproduce · 13-04-2020 12:24pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

As a 'species' from a clinic cold perspective yes. As a functioning society ...no.

Fatalities have been low due to lockdowns and the fact that countries tried to save their healthservice. If we try to 'live with it'. That would not be the case.

And its not the flu ...mild is not the word.

I have heard many figures banded about as to how many are asymptomatic some say 10 % some say 50% some say 70%.

Its not predictable who is going to die. Its not older people. Its everyone.

So no...i don't think we will get to a point when people will simply say lets take our chances.

I think certainly Boris Jonson getting it has prevented that.

It's clearly not everyone. It's overwhelmingly beyond any doubt an old and vulernarable people killer. That is just as sad, because we all have old and vulnerable people that we love and worry about. Yes anyone can get it but they won't be too adversely affected. If you don't bank the facts then you are at nothing.
Scaremongering people is not the way to go because soon enough the strong and young will have to go and shoulder the wheel to get this economy moving so that there is resources to care for everyone.

13-04-2020 12:48pm

Society is simply not set up to have long breaks while we hide from disease.

This is not going to stay long term like some people think. The disease might, but the lockdown won’t.

Life is for living, not surviving.

PeterPan92 · 13-04-2020 12:50pm

I am a primary teacher working online constantly, as are all teachers in my school. The vast majority of parents in the school are understanding and co-operative. However, we have seen a number of teachers in our school complaining about how Communions and Confirmations were cancelled, how the school has not rearranged these dates, and how it is a "joke" that the school cannot give them an answer to questions regarding these sacraments. The school obviously have more pressing matters to attend to, and also is clearly incapable of answering such inquiries at present.

My issue with this is that, even if schools were to return, it is highly unlikely events like the Communion and Confirmation could happen anyway, as they are such large events (70-80 children at each, plus families), and they also encourage family gatherings afterwards.

Xertz · 13-04-2020 12:54pm

To be quite honest, and I mean this as no slight on primary schools, but that does rather neatly illustrate the priorities of a certain bubble of the very religious, which I don’t think is reflective of the real world beyond that bubble.

Even the Church itself isn’t making any fuss about those issues and is being practical

Schools will have to reopen or we will have major issues but I could see a scenario where they’ll still have to somehow cope with social distancing measures, testing eg of temperature - perhaps parents being asked to closely monitor for any kind of symptoms and so on.

I can see them being open but with serious limitations on a lot of risks over the months ahead and not before September other than for limited Leaving Cert stuff.

Use of blended learning and minimising congregated time is just going to have to be done for a while. It’s probably easier to do for universities, where there’s a lot of experience of online teaching anyway.

s1ippy · 13-04-2020 12:56pm

irishproduce wrote: »

It's clearly not everyone. It's overwhelmingly beyond any doubt an old and vulernarable people killer. That is just as sad, because we all have old and vulnerable people that we love and worry about. Yes anyone can get it but they won't be too adversely affected. If you don't bank the facts then you are at nothing.
Scaremongering people is not the way to go because soon enough the strong and young will have to go and shoulder the wheel to get this economy moving so that there is resources to care for everyone.

No. Young people also die regularly from this throughout the world. Why would anyone who doesn't have to give their life wilfully put themselves in that position? Young people also stand to lose a lot more good years due to complications, issues with the virus recurring when their immune system is down and shorten their life expectancy dramatically. People should have a choice whether they take the risk with this virus, and most will choose no. So cut out your "shoulder the wheel" blather and stop claiming to speak with authority on any matters pertaining to this because clearly you have absolutely no basis for these sentiments except your own self-interest.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Probably by that stage we’ll need to start moving forward, with or without Covid 19.

I mean, your same logic applies now. We "need" the economy to be moving. The harsh reality is that the need which outweighs economic activity, now and for the duration of this virus existing without cure, definite treatment or vaccine, is to stop health systems being overwhelmed. I keep saying it but if you insist that you throw yourself under the bus at the earliest opportunity because you're tired of this situation, that's your choice.

This "we" business can get fuçked, you might be expendable or a thrillseeker or something but I and the bulk of reasonable people are not willing to sacrifice themselves because you're bored.

TCM · 13-04-2020 12:56pm

Deleted User wrote:

Probably by that stage weâ€™ll need to start moving forward, with or without Covid 19.

What does that actually mean?

PeterPan92 · 13-04-2020 12:57pm

These parents wouldn't be the religious type as such. It appears that the main issue is that they have caterers, hair, makeup etc. booked and want new dates so they can rebook these before other parents. As I said though, the vast vast majority of parents are being extremely cooperative and understanding.

Murple · 13-04-2020 1:03pm

Xertz wrote: »

To be quite honest, and I mean this as no slight on primary schools, but that does rather neatly illustrate the priorities of a certain bubble of the very religious, which I don’t think is reflective of the real world beyond that bubble.

Even the Church itself isn’t making any fuss about those issues and is being practical

Schools will have to reopen or we will have major issues but I could see a scenario where they’ll still have to somehow cope with social distancing measures, testing eg of temperature - perhaps parents being asked to closely monitor for any kind of symptoms and so on.

I can see them being open but with serious limitations on a lot of risks over the months ahead.

I really don't think the parents in question are 'very religious' because they want the school to give them dates for the Communion and Confirmation. I would guess they are looking for something to tell their upset children or else are looking for a date that they can plan a party around. Some may be looking at things like getting clothes ordered or returning things already bought. The very religious are not going to be looking for a date as the sacraments to them are primarily a religious event and they know that it will happen at some stage but perhaps without the fuss and performance. They would be ready and willing tomorrow if told today.

Xertz · 13-04-2020 1:03pm

The biggest issue I would see is infections fly around schools. I’ve a niece in early stages of primary school and literally EVERYTHING was brought home and spread around her parents and into extended family : colds, flus, more colds and one Christmas she even came home with norovirus (winter vomiting bug) that had broken out at the school and which everyone at a major family Xmas get together then got!

At one stage their household seemed to be down with colds, flus and mystery minor viruses every couple of weeks. It got to the stage you’d nearly want to avoid visiting.

I can’t really see how we’re going to avoid spreading this around rather rapidly when primary schools reopen. It’ll just become endemic. Hopefully we will have more progress on at least repurposed drugs by September.

The other odd thing in Ireland is schooling often isn’t local and gets driven by the way we structure schools around sponsor, ethos and often gender of students. So, unlike many countries where the school district tends to be local, once they reopen you’ll have parents crisscrossing towns and cities dropping kids off at different schools and you’ll be back to complex mingling and serious complexity contact tracing. You’re not going to be able to say that an outbreak in a school in a particular suburb is confined to that suburb, as you’ll have students from all over the place in a lot of cases.

trapp · 13-04-2020 1:24pm

Xertz wrote: »

The biggest issue I would see is infections fly around schools. I’ve a niece in early stages of primary school and literally EVERYTHING was brought home and spread around her parents and into extended family : colds, flus, more colds and one Christmas she even came home with norovirus (winter vomiting bug) that had broken out at the school and which everyone at a major family Xmas get together then got!

At one stage their household seemed to be down with colds, flus and mystery minor viruses every couple of weeks. It got to the stage you’d nearly want to avoid visiting.

I can’t really see how we’re going to avoid spreading this around rather rapidly when primary schools reopen. It’ll just become endemic. Hopefully we will have more progress on at least repurposed drugs by September.

The other odd thing in Ireland is schooling often isn’t local and gets driven by the way we structure schools around sponsor, ethos and often gender of students. So, unlike many countries where the school district tends to be local, once they reopen you’ll have parents crisscrossing towns and cities dropping kids off at different schools and you’ll be back to complex mingling and serious complexity contact tracing.

Agree with much of that.

It becomes a question of do we consider education essential and in any reasonable society is has to be, especially for children in disadvantaged, deprived areas.

So a solution of some type must be found and these next few months offer an opportunity to do so.

The scientists and doctors will try and find solutions to the virus but educators need to consider solutions for continuing education.

The department should be looking into this now.

To me a sensible solution, that would minimise some of the risks you've mentioned above would be each child to attend for one day per week from January onwards meaning that working at home on the other days could be purposeful revision and development of what was covered on their day in class.

khalessi · 13-04-2020 1:26pm

jrosen wrote: »

Something will have to be done. We have had no contact from our primary schools since shut down. No guidance and no support to parents. There was one page uploaded to the school site initially with english and math works to be done in workbooks for the 2 weeks, maybe 40 mins work per day. Plus a project. Then another page uploaded with suggested websites to use.

There is no way this is acceptable long term without real impact to the kids that attend this school.

Have you contacted the school?

trapp · 13-04-2020 1:28pm

s1ippy wrote: »

No. Young people also die regularly from this throughout the world. Why would anyone who doesn't have to give their life wilfully put themselves in that position? Young people also stand to lose a lot more good years due to complications, issues with the virus recurring when their immune system is down and shorten their life expectancy dramatically. People should have a choice whether they take the risk with this virus, and most will choose no. So cut out your "shoulder the wheel" blather and stop claiming to speak with authority on any matters pertaining to this because clearly you have absolutely no basis for these sentiments except your own self-interest.

I mean, your same logic applies now. We "need" the economy to be moving. The harsh reality is that the need which outweighs economic activity, now and for the duration of this virus existing without cure, definite treatment or vaccine, is to stop health systems being overwhelmed. I keep saying it but if you insist that you throw yourself under the bus at the earliest opportunity because you're tired of this situation, that's your choice.

This "we" business can get fuçked, you might be expendable or a thrillseeker or something but I and the bulk of reasonable people are not willing to sacrifice themselves because you're bored.

This is nonsense.

How will schools be able to go back in September?

Comments