CoVid19 Part XI - 2,615 in ROI (46 deaths) 410 in NI (21 deaths)(29/03)OP upd 28/03

niallo27 · 28-03-2020 11:25pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Update, rang the gardai about the group of people fishing beside me, no sign of the gardai after 5 hours. Last car just gone.

They have no power to do anything yet, it was reported on the news.

coastwatch · 28-03-2020 11:26pm

Anita Blow wrote: »

You're largely correct. More severe cases of COVID cause myocardial injury- we do Troponins on covid patients (Troponin being a biomarker we use for heart injury in heart attacks, for example) as a predictor of severity.

It's probably not the main reason for death- death will be multi-factorial and this cardiac injury will be just one contributory factor!

Can I ask, are you working on the frontline in Ireland?

Muahahaha · 28-03-2020 11:28pm

Northern Ireland has clamped down and they are pretty much alligned with our own lockdown now. Thats a good thing because the Brexit mess has shown us that 50,000 people cross the border every day for work

jesus_thats_gre · 28-03-2020 11:28pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Differences appear really stark.

See here about recent flu outbreak

https://www.thelocal.it/20200123/flu-outbreak-in-italy-half-a-million-people-struck-down-in-a-week

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

JP Liz V1 · 28-03-2020 11:29pm

Princess Maria Teresa de Borbón-Parma has become the first member of a royal family to pass away

Spanish Eyes · 28-03-2020 11:29pm

Blaze420 wrote: »

He has nothing to be hailed for, his bull**** approach to this is going to cost thousands of lives. Way too little and way too late. At least he isn’t trump - it takes some doing to doom a population to more deaths than they suffered in WWII but the orange retard has that well sown up already

I was referring to Johnson's Brexit stance and the fact that EU has not worked together on this. YET.

Yes he is a lazy ignorant oaf, and even looks a bit like Trump.

Sorry to say it, but I really did wonder if he actually has CV, or is he just spoofing since he is a lazy lying fecker and might have discovered that the reality of being PM in UK requires hard work and committment. Dunno, still open minded on it TBH.

I would not give Trump any of my bandwidth.

DisneyLover · 28-03-2020 11:29pm

Lavinia wrote: »

this is so accurate lol

not sure we passed the bargaining phase fully though just yet..

who are we breaking up with thats the breakup steps right!! lol

Talisman · 28-03-2020 11:29pm

Anita Blow wrote: »

Unlikely to be the reason.

Smoking rates are higher in males and this is a respiratory illness. Men are also more likely to be overweight.
These are just two risk factors for respiratory illness that place men at higher risk.

The same thing has been observed in studies of SARS and MERS.

Do men have a higher case fatality rate of severe acute respiratory syndrome than women do?

Thus, among SARS patients, males may be more severely affected by the disease than females are. This finding could be related to a nonuniform case definition of SARS disease, a different treatment regimen, a past smoking history, work-environment factors, or gender-specific immune-defense factors, for instance.

Current epidemiological status of Middle East respiratory syndrome coronavirus in the world from 1.1.2017 to 17.1.2018: a cross-sectional study

A total of 229 MERS-CoV cases, including 70 deaths (30.5%), were recorded in the disease outbreak news on world health organization website over the study period. Based on available details in this study, the case fatality rate in both genders was 30.5% (70/229) [32.1% (55/171) for males and 25.8% (15/58) for females]. The disease occurrence was higher among men [171 cases (74.7%)] than women [58 cases (25.3%)].

Of course some scientists would be crazy enough to try and replicate the findings using mice:

Sex-based differences in susceptibility to SARS-CoV infection

Our results showed that male mice were more susceptible to SARS-CoV infection compared to age matched females.

In general, males generate less robust immune responses and are more susceptible to a variety of infectious agents. In contrast, females mount stronger innate and adaptive immune responses and are relatively resistant to virus infections.

They went a bit further with their experiment and discovered that when the female's estrogen levels were reduced, their susceptibility to infection increased.

The link with estrogen has been found with other studies also:
Estrogenic compounds reduce influenza A virus replication in primary human nasal epithelial cells derived from female, but not male, donors

The severity of influenza and other respiratory diseases changes over the life course and during pregnancy in women, suggesting that sex steroid hormones, such as estrogens, may be involved.

bekker · 28-03-2020 11:29pm

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Loads of stuff online.

Cuomo talked about it last night. Trialling a 2x configuration. But seen stuff online with up to a 12x split. Musk even inputting into some of the dicussions.

There is also a huge open source Ventilator scene that has spawned in recent weeks - large one here https://opensourceventilator.ie/

Same with Helmet CPAP,

Why can't HSE just issue necessary critical parameters from units they have (volumetric capacity of helmet and optimum seal diameter) out to industry, get out of the way, and let the people who know how to collaborate come up with a workable design that can be indigenously produced, if necessary across multiple shops.

Critical element appears to be neck seal.

Chasing after existing product in competition with bigger clout, pockets and national interest, is probably a lost cause. Same goes for ventilators which are more complex and less easy to re-engineer. But thinking outside the box may allow repurposing and adapting analogous equipment.

If it's a question of being put on one's side to die or using unapproved but working equipment, it's a no-brainer.

jackboy · 28-03-2020 11:30pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Update, rang the gardai about the group of people fishing beside me, no sign of the gardai after 5 hours. Last car just gone.

They probably thought you were taking the piss, or a crank. They have better things to be doing.

niallo27 · 28-03-2020 11:30pm

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Princess Maria Teresa de Borbón-Parma has become the first member of a royal family to pass away

Thsts some name.

kilkenny31 · 28-03-2020 11:31pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Differences appear really stark.

See here about recent flu outbreak

https://www.thelocal.it/20200123/flu-outbreak-in-italy-half-a-million-people-struck-down-in-a-week

Interesing. That's deaths in a week is it? Which flu season had over 1000 deaths in Ireland? It would be interesting to know. One thing Ive been wondering about is, are the complications of flu the same as COVID-19 like do most people who die of it end up in ICU on ventilators or does it have different complications ie cause organ failure etc.

Blaze420 · 28-03-2020 11:32pm

jackboy wrote: »

They probably thought you were taking the piss, or a crank. They have better things to be doing.

No they don’t - what’s more important than breaking up groups with the potential to spread Covid - catching out of date tax discs on the roads? If they want us to follow the new restrictions then they would be better off showing us they will enforce them, it’s pointless otherwise

cnocbui · 28-03-2020 11:32pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Very true, 20,000 die of starvation every single day and the world doesnt even blink

I watched that video a few days ago. Ive so much respect for Bill Gates. He was once the worlds richest man and he could be retired sitting on a $500m super yacht in the Caribbean enjoying his senior years. But instead he has reinvented himself as a major advocate of public health for the worlds poorest people and is going to see out his life donating his vast fortune towards solving problems like malaria and polio.

...

I have admiration for Gates, but he isn't spending his fortune on the world's poor. It seems most likely he spends some of the income from his investments on philanthropy, which is still admirable. His net worth in 2019 was estimated to be $96.5 Billion. In 2010 it was $53 Billion, so he hasn't started spending down his fortune yet, if he ever does.

He's an investor shark, not a fluffy kitten. When Ireland was on it's financial knees, Gates stuck his nose in the trough to feed on our pain.

Last week, Gates regained his crown as the world's richest man, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires index, which pegged his wealth at $78.5bn (€57.4bn), up $15.8bn in the last year.

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation owns nearly $20m worth of Irish bonds.

At the end of December 2012, it held close to $7.8m worth of Irish 5.4 government bonds with a maturity of 2025, $6.03m worth of Irish 5 government bonds with a maturity of 2020, and $4.14m worth of Irish 4.5 bonds with a maturity of 2020.

Those bonds have been a spectacular investment, returning close to 10 per cent over the last year.

Irish bonds were the second-best performing government debt in the Bloomberg World Bond Index for 2013, generating returns of close to 12 per cent for investors. That was only topped by Greek bonds, which saw a 47 per cent return for investors.

Giant US investor Franklin Templeton and its star trader, Michael Hasenstab, made a huge bet on the Irish recovery, buying up close to €9bn in Irish bonds. Along with Gates, Franklin Templeton is sitting on vast profits.

The Gates investment in Irish government bonds is bigger than its holdings in gilts from other countries, as his foundation lists a $14.5m holding in British government bonds, over $12m in French bonds, $4m in Swedish government bonds and $12.7m in New Zealand government bonds.

So he's got great publicity and still has a vast mountain of money.

Anita Blow · 28-03-2020 11:33pm

coastwatch wrote: »

Can I ask, are you working on the frontline in Ireland?

I'm a doctor in Dublin

Hobgoblin11 · 28-03-2020 11:33pm

How do you quarantine NY? Do you switch off wall street?

Daz_ · 28-03-2020 11:34pm

jackboy wrote: »

They probably thought you were taking the piss, or a crank. They have better things to be doing.

Better things to do rather than enforce a stay at home order in a national health emergency ? Right .

Hobgoblin11 · 28-03-2020 11:34pm

This virus could have been genetically engineered by China in Wuhan in order to deny Trump another 4 years in office! Disgrace!

Un1corn · 28-03-2020 11:35pm

cameramonkey wrote: »

What evidence do you have for your belief that WHO is not in a position to
verify China's numbers?

I have looked for any evidence that WHO think they are being hoodwinked, I have found none but you I suppose know better.Can you post a link to support such a proposition.

The WHO have to go on the basis of the numbers that China gives them. They have no way to verify it independently. I didn't say they are being hoodwinked. I said they are not in a position to very Chinese statistics. Nobody is. It is a closed, intransparent and secretive system and international organizations, for example the WHO, will not be given access to anything the Chinese don't want them to see.

The WHO also are not politically independent and needs to keep the Chinese authorities satisfied. I have no idea why but they are walking on eggshells with China. This isn't about the numbers but for example, they don't allow Taiwan membership of their organization for fear of upsetting China. Look at this interview of a Taiwanese journalist questioning a WHO official gets shut down and he avoids answering the question.

https://youtu.be/tCFPFWsIPmM

He clearly does not want to upset China for some reason. Challenging their numbers would surely upset them also.

This link is better. They call him back and he worms his way out of offending China. They are under the thumb:
https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/fqjkab/hk_journalist_asks_who_senior_advisor_about/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

runawaybishop · 28-03-2020 11:37pm

niallo27 wrote: »

They have no power to do anything yet, it was reported on the news.

That's not what they said when I rang? Anyway tomorrow if there are more people on my land I will deal with it myself.

jackboy · 28-03-2020 11:37pm

Blaze420 wrote: »

No they don’t - what’s more important than breaking up groups with the potential to spread Covid - catching out of date tax discs on the roads? If they want us to follow the new restrictions then they would be better off showing us they will enforce them, it’s pointless otherwise

A few lads fishing in the middle of nowhere. There were long queues to get into supermarkets today. Going after the fishermen would absolutely be a waste of resources.

Daz_ · 28-03-2020 11:39pm

jackboy wrote: »

A few lads fishing in the middle of nowhere. There were long queues to get into supermarkets today. Going after the fishermen would absolutely be a waste of resources.

Are fishermen somehow immune from spreading Covid 19 ? I didn’t know that .

bekker · 28-03-2020 11:40pm

johnfás wrote: »

Licensing existing IP so that others can manufacture already approved designs would presumably be the quickest ...

Licencing could/would be extortionate, check out what happened when Italian 3-D printing guys developed a unavaile replacement part.
Hit with cease and desist lawsuit, profit margin on the part was apparently in the '000s percent of mfrg cost.

Not uncommon in medical equipment, not unjustified recoupment in some cases, but mostly down to the ridiculously lax US Patent Office.

jackboy · 28-03-2020 11:40pm

Daz_ wrote: »

Are fishermen somehow immune from spreading Covid 19 ? I didn’t know that .

Are long queues of shoppers immune?

caveat emptor · 28-03-2020 11:40pm

Nesta99 wrote: »

True, I have a blisters on the bridge of my nose and behind my ears.

I am not saying that people shouldnt wear masks, what I am concerned about is that people who wouldnt be familiar with the additional care that is needed to truly mitigate against the spread could actually increase risk. I also feel that mixed messages, officially or via fora like this also is a potential issue tbh. So with that in mind I offer guided opinion and would not claim absolute fact on any of this.

The consideration of supply of masks, and the hike in cost is something that bothers me as if somebody is ponying up €'s rather than cents for disposable masks then they will be reused rather than discarded.

During the H1N1 episode all frontline NHS staff were fitted with respirator type masks and given a supply of filters. Occupational health had us wear the masks, put 'canopy' over our head and pumped really obnoxious smelling gas in to the free space - if you got a whiff of anything then the mask was refitted. In some cases a mould of the lower face was taken if the genericly fitting ones didnt suit an individual. If everyone, especially in healthcare, were fitted with these it would certainly reduce the level of attrition (imo). Cost, supply, policy and subsequent time dealy means this hasnt happened (NHS) on this occasion. They were also reasonably comfortable to wear and visors could be clipped on and not perched on yer nose. Better and more effective all round!! I still have it so could post a pic if ye think it necessary as an example.

Full face visors will protect from direct particles from a cough and also prevent face touching. These would be of greater use to the general public also i believe than disposable masks. Dispoable masks have a lifespan in terms of microparticles of no more than 5 minutes (if they had in the first place even) - certainly the ones that are used as standard are damp and pretty rank after wearing one for any considerable length of time, from vapour in breathing or sweat or both. Evidence based research has shown that they dont make a sinificant difference to most patients in the clinical enviornment in terms of reducing post-op infection. For this reason many Operating Theatre staff opt not to wear them, at their own risk possibly but their non use can help improve communication, reduce costs among other things.

Anything that improves peoples wellbeing at the moment in psychological terms is not a bad thing but only with proper use that wont potentially exacerbate infection rates through misuse, complacency etc.

Of course this is all a very fluid situation so things change daily and it might very well be decided that the benefits outweigh the risk but at the moment I dont believe this is the case. When you see people wearing masks that are for dust particulate like those used on construction sites its is apparent that people dont rally understand the appropriate use in terms of preventing microorganism spread.

Im not sure if it is the time to really debate the pros and cons of disposable masks but there does need to be greater awareness of the potential pitfalls at the same time. Maybe that is to come as only so much information can be doled out before information fatigue kicks in.

As I said in my previous post, its my pennys worth - not a sort of dictat or rolling of eyes at those who do chose to wear masks etc.

(I wont go digging out the back up to this so I waill say that anecdotally Ebola infects less people who are in contact and Hazmat suits would be worn - of course the mortality rate is higher but they really are the only level of PPE that would be thorough but of course would be impractical on almost every level).

Thanks for the reply. I don't have any experience with using masks. This is a a pandemic and last time anybody had any experience of something similar was over 100 years ago.

The science is quite clear on how masks help stop the transmission. I don't like being fed horse**** because our leaders didn't have the foresight to prepare. I get there is a shortage an we must deal with that. Particularly for those most effected (health care workers).

People may already have purchased masks and might not wear them because of the government mixed messages. We have a disproportionate amount of health care workers who are getting sick compared to other countries.

This is airborne. That's the reality at this stage. Face guards are great but won't help you if you are in an high risk environment where people are coughing etc.

I take your argument that single use PPE should not be reused. This is life and death for our HCW. Innovative solutions should be forth coming in this time of crisis. There are other forms of respirators which can be reused.

This is a classic "there's nothing we could have done". My point is there is clearly something they could have done to prepare for this however unlikely.

Beasty · 28-03-2020 11:40pm

smelly sock wrote: »

Do people still put the clocks forward?

Seriously. Most do it automatically.

It's easy in the autumn - just don't bother winding it up and let it stop for an hour. Spring is a bit more of a rigmarole though, and avoiding messing up the day/date is a real PITA

runawaybishop · 28-03-2020 11:41pm

jackboy wrote: »

A few lads fishing in the middle of nowhere. There were long queues to get into supermarkets today. Going after the fishermen would absolutely be a waste of resources.

People are allowed to queue for shopping, they are not allowed fish on my land in groups and have chats in the car park. Maybe it is a waste of resources though, just annoyed the gardai said they would come out and then not show up.

Blaze420 · 28-03-2020 11:41pm

jackboy wrote: »

A few lads fishing in the middle of nowhere. There were long queues to get into supermarkets today. Going after the fishermen would absolutely be a waste of resources.

Did you not see the message the last few weeks? STAY THE **** AT HOME. What part of fishing in the middle of nowhere is following that advice?

runawaybishop · 28-03-2020 11:41pm

jackboy wrote: »

A few lads fishing in the middle of nowhere. There were long queues to get into supermarkets today. Going after the fishermen would absolutely be a waste of resources.

People are allowed to queue for shopping, they are not allowed fish on my land in groups and have chats in the car park. Maybe it is a waste of resources though, just annoyed the gardai said they would come out and then not show up.

Daz_ · 28-03-2020 11:42pm

jackboy wrote: »

Are long queues of shoppers immune?

People shopping for food - a necessity
Lads out fishing for the sport of it - clowns

CoVid19 Part XI - 2,615 in ROI (46 deaths) 410 in NI (21 deaths)(29/03)*OP upd 28/03*

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CoVid19 Part XI - 2,615 in ROI (46 deaths) 410 in NI (21 deaths)(29/03)OP upd 28/03