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CoVid19 Part XI - 2,615 in ROI (46 deaths) 410 in NI (21 deaths)(29/03)*OP upd 28/03*

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    #7742
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,565 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Boris Johnson to warn UK: tougher lockdown may be necessary

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/28/boris-johnson-coronavirus-outbreak-will-get-worse


    The herd won't like that


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    #7743
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,895 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    The Nation is going through this process


    Denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.

    I'd say we are going through 4 now.


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    #7744
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Boris Johnson to warn UK: tougher lockdown may be necessary

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/28/boris-johnson-coronavirus-outbreak-will-get-worse


    The herd won't like that

    It's either Trump or Boris. That's all that we hear


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    #7745
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    #CiSalviamoDaSoli hashtag started in italy 'we saved ourselves'. Horrible to see far right using it as opportunity. EU response should have been much stronger though.

    https://twitter.com/descifraguerra/status/1244023166827200512?s=20


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    #7746
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,619 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    jesus_thats_gre wrote: »
    Loads of stuff online.

    Cuomo talked about it last night. Trialling a 2x configuration. But seen stuff online with up to a 12x split. Musk even inputting into some of the dicussions.

    There is also a huge open source Ventilator scene that has spawned in recent weeks - large one here https://opensourceventilator.ie/

    12x seems unachievable but 2x must definitely be possible. Its essentially an oxygen pump, if they can double its output then and attach it to two patients rather than one that would be a massive help.

    Lots of companies making them but you'd wonder where the software/electronics side is going to come from. On top of that they'd have to be tested and approved for use on humans which takes time. Modifying existing units to pump for two patients would be a much quicker way of solving the problem.


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    #7747
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users Posts: 85,656 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Someone already has a gofundme to buy from the same place - why is someone doing another?

    I suppose everyone wants to help
    https://forumofgames.com/




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    #7748
    kilkenny31
    Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭kilkenny31


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    10,000+ deaths in the space of 60 days.

    Just for the sake of comparison how does that compare to a bad flu season?


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    #7749
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,565 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    What Johnson will tell the British public...
    “From the start, we have sought to put in the right measures at the right time,” Johnson says in the letter, which will land on doorsteps this week. “We will not hesitate to go further if that is what the scientific and medical advice tells us we must do.

    “It’s important for me to level with you – we know things will get worse before they get better. But we are making the right preparations, and the more we all follow the rules, the fewer lives will be lost and the sooner life can return to normal … That is why, at this moment of national emergency, I urge you, please, to stay at home, protect the NHS and save lives.”


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    #7750
    jesus_thats_gre
    Registered Users Posts: 17,441 ✭✭✭✭jesus_thats_gre


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    12x seems unachievable but 2x must definitely be possible. Its essentially an oxygen pump, if they can double its output then and attach it to two patients rather than one that would be a massive help.

    Lots of companies making them but you'd wonder where the software/electronics side is going to come from. On top of that they'd have to be tested and approved for use on humans which takes time. Modifying existing units to pump for two patients would be a much quicker way of solving the problem.

    Think there is concerns about cross contamination between air flows. Think I saw something too about how components deteriorate with use.


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    #7751
    Lavinia
    Registered Users Posts: 8,089 ✭✭✭Lavinia


    saabsaab wrote: »
    The Nation is going through this process


    Denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.

    I'd say we are going through 4 now.
    this is so accurate lol

    not sure we passed the bargaining phase fully though just yet..


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    #7752
    Renjit
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Renjit


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    12x seems unachievable but 2x must definitely be possible. Its essentially an oxygen pump, if they can double its output then and attach it to two patients rather than one that would be a massive help.

    Lots of companies making them but you'd wonder where the software/electronics side is going to come from. On top of that they'd have to be tested and approved for use on humans which takes time. Modifying existing units to pump for two patients would be a much quicker way of solving the problem.

    2x should be considered with caution
    https://www.asahq.org/about-asa/newsroom/news-releases/2020/03/joint-statement-on-multiple-patients-per-ventilator
    Volumes would go to the most compliant lung segments.
    Positive end‐expiratory pressure, which is of critical importance in these patients, would be impossible to manage.
    Monitoring patients and measuring pulmonary mechanics would be challenging, if not impossible.
    Alarm monitoring and management would not be feasible.
    Individualized management for clinical improvement or deterioration would be impossible.
    In the case of a cardiac arrest, ventilation to all patients would need to be stopped to allow the change to bag ventilation without aerosolizing the virus and exposing healthcare workers. This circumstance also would alter breath delivery dynamics to the other patients.
    The added circuit volume defeats the operational self‐test (the test fails). The clinician would be required to operate the ventilator without a successful test, adding to errors in the measurement.
    Additional external monitoring would be required. The ventilator monitors the average pressures and volumes.
    Even if all patients connected to a single ventilator have the same clinical features at initiation, they could deteriorate and recover at different rates, and distribution of gas to each patient would be unequal and unmonitored. The sickest patient would get the smallest tidal volume and the improving patient would get the largest tidal volume.
    The greatest risks occur with sudden deterioration of a single patient (e.g., pneumothorax, kinked endotracheal tube), with the balance of ventilation distributed to the other patients.
    Finally, there are ethical issues. If the ventilator can be lifesaving for a single individual, using it on more than one patient at a time risks life‐threatening treatment failure for all of them.


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    #7753
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,069 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    10,000+ deaths in the space of 60 days.

    that's chilling


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    #7754
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,619 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    It's either Trump or Boris. That's all that we hear

    Trump has come out and said he "might" place three states including New York into quarantine. Wtf was he doing thinking out loud before an official announcement. Millions of people in NY right now must be thinking of scrambling out of there before the quarantine begins. The wealthiest of them cant even shout 'To the Hamptons!' because thats within NY state :pac:


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    #7755
    branie2
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    Northern Ireland under lockdown now


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    #7756
    johnfás
    Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭johnfás


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    12x seems unachievable but 2x must definitely be possible. Its essentially an oxygen pump, if they can double its output then and attach it to two patients rather than one that would be a massive help.

    Lots of companies making them but you'd wonder where the software/electronics side is going to come from. On top of that they'd have to be tested and approved for use on humans which takes time. Modifying existing units to pump for two patients would be a much quicker way of solving the problem.

    Licensing existing IP so that others can manufacture already approved designs would presumably be the quickest ...


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    #7757
    fr336
    Registered Users Posts: 10,179 ✭✭✭✭fr336


    Lavinia wrote: »
    yes but if you look at stats of closed cases you will see that 45 percent of people died while only 55 percent recovered..


    that scares me tbh..


    Yeah but is that more from when there were fewer cases? As the cases go up (obviously we don't want them to, but they will and are), will that death rate not stabilise drastically? Ie the overwhelming majority of cases will be mild.


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    #7758
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,709 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    jackboy wrote: »
    Well he is a failed diplomat then. He was clearly speaking for China. He could have just said ‘no comment’ or ‘I’m not answering that question’..

    He tried, he even ended the call but she persisted, bad journalism.


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    #7759
    Un1corn
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭Un1corn


    cameramonkey wrote: »
    Do you believe that the WHO and China are conspiring to hide the true figue of infections in China at the moment?

    I cannot speak for the WHO but I believe China has great motivation to do so. Whether they are or not we will never know or be able to verify given the nature of China. When I look at the trends from China and the trajectory in other countries I think China's statistics are highly suspect. I don't believe the WHO is in the position to verify China's numbers are true or false.

    Did you check the links earlier about the number of Urns being sent to Wuhan for example?


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    #7760
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,919 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    I hate to say it, but Johnson will be hailed for Brexit now.

    EU is not cohesive in the struggle with this virus, although I understand they don't have an over arching Health Brief for all members either.

    But still, one voice from the EU Parliament/Commission might have helped. Every country for itself now, and Netherlands and Germany (maybe others too) are opposed to Corona bonds too. Not good.


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    #7761
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    What Johnson will tell the British public...

    He never instills faith, does he. We sought, we tried etc.


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    #7762
    Lavinia
    Registered Users Posts: 8,089 ✭✭✭Lavinia


    fr336 wrote: »
    Yeah but is that more from when there were fewer cases? As the cases go up (obviously we don't want them to, but they will and are), will that death rate not stabilise drastically? Ie the overwhelming majority of cases will be mild.
    we can only hope so, time will tell


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    #7763
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,619 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    jesus_thats_gre wrote: »
    Think there is concerns about cross contamination between air flows. Think I saw something too about how components deteriorate with use.

    yeah theres definitely challenges. Not insurmountable though. And it might get to the point that a low risk of cross contamination is preferable to running out of ventilators completely. Its already happened to Italy so the problem is coming down the tracks for all health services.


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    #7764
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,565 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    kilkenny31 wrote: »
    Just for the sake of comparison how does that compare to a bad flu season?


    Differences appear really stark.

    See here about recent flu outbreak


    https://www.thelocal.it/20200123/flu-outbreak-in-italy-half-a-million-people-struck-down-in-a-week

    Since the start of flu season in October 2019, 2,768,000 cases across the country have been confirmed by laboratory tests, according to data from InfluNet published on January 19.

    A total of 488,000 cases were reported last week alone, signalling that flu season is hitting its peak in January as predicted.

    240 deaths have so far been reported, slightly lower than the expected 258. Most of the fatal cases are elderly patients who suffered complications after contracting the virus.

    Influenza, commonly called the flu, is a viral infection that attacks your respiratory system.


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    #7765
    Blaze420
    Closed Accounts Posts: 904 ✭✭✭Blaze420


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    I hate to say it, but Johnson will be hailed for Brexit now.

    EU is not cohesive in the struggle with this virus, although I understand they don't have an over arching Health Brief for all members either.

    But still, one voice from the EU Parliament/Commission might have helped. Every country for itself now, and Netherlands and Germany (maybe others too) are opposed to Corona bonds too. Not good.

    He has nothing to be hailed for, his bull**** approach to this is going to cost thousands of lives. Way too little and way too late. At least he isn’t trump - it takes some doing to doom a population to more deaths than they suffered in WWII but the orange retard has that well sown up already


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    #7766
    1800_Ladladlad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    FVP3 wrote: »
    One factory. It's interesting how the US media, particularly the b media, controls the narrative. I've seen these reports turn up today on a number of sites, here and reddit by right wingers.

    Clearly there's an agenda


    Fuggin hell :confused:


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    #7767
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    fr336 wrote: »
    Yeah but is that more from when there were fewer cases? As the cases go up (obviously we don't want them to, but they will and are), will that death rate not stabilise drastically? Ie the overwhelming majority of cases will be mild.

    It has been rising recently. Started high, reduced a lot, then a steady rise in the past week or so. Just going by memory, but have a look at the graph.


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    #7768
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    irishgeo wrote: »
    ring the local station, the guards will be on it. They are endangering the safety of others.

    Update, rang the gardai about the group of people fishing beside me, no sign of the gardai after 5 hours. Last car just gone.


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    #7769
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,111 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    12x seems unachievable but 2x must definitely be possible. Its essentially an oxygen pump, if they can double its output then and attach it to two patients rather than one that would be a massive help.
    The problem is M, the two patients must require essentially the same ventilator output. I can see it working in patients that "just" require extra oxygen to get them over the hump(like those "helmets" the Italians have stalled giving to us), but not people sedated, muscles paralysed and intubated attached to a ventilator breathing for them.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #7770
    tony1980
    Registered Users Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭tony1980


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Trump has come out and said he "might" place three states including New York into quarantine. Wtf was he doing thinking out loud before an official announcement. Millions of people in NY right now must be thinking of scrambling out of there before the quarantine begins. The wealthiest of them cant even shout 'To the Hamptons!' because thats within NY state :pac:

    Have a client in the Hamptons. Their families in NY have already left last week to go to the Hamptons. I’d say a lot more will try do the same now.


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    #7771
    cameramonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭cameramonkey


    Un1corn wrote: »
    I cannot speak for the WHO but I believe China has great motivation to do so. Whether they are or not we will never know or be able to verify given the nature of China. When I look at the trends from China and the trajectory in other countries I think China's statistics are highly suspect. I don't believe the WHO is in the position to verify China's numbers are true or false.

    Did you check the links earlier about the number of Urns being sent to Wuhan for example?


    What evidence do you have for your belief that WHO is not in a position to
    verify China's numbers?

    I have looked for any evidence that WHO think they are being hoodwinked, I have found none but you I suppose know better.Can you post a link to support such a proposition.


This discussion has been closed.
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