No right wing alternative= No alternative

alastair · 08-02-2020 09:40PM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

'Immigrants', of course, being a term you like to use as way to conceal, at least as much as reveal.

Immigrants are the non-Irish living here that the poster referenced. Glad to clarify.

Lefty Bicek · 08-02-2020 09:59PM

alastair wrote: »

Immigrants are the non-Irish living here that the poster referenced. Glad to clarify.

And some are beneficial to the host, and some are parasitic to the host.

Glad to clarify.

AllForIt · 08-02-2020 10:16PM

alastair wrote: »

And yet - immigrants are more likely to be supporting this rent supplement payments, along with every other income tax supported social provision, than Irish nationals are. It’s been established for many years that immigrants are net contributors to the Irish economy.

So you think cultural diversity is worth it because poor (incapable) people will be better off.

alastair · 08-02-2020 10:28PM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

And some are beneficial to the host, and some are parasitic to the host.

Glad to clarify.

And once again - immigrants are net contributors to the Irish economy. Which was the point being made.

alastair · 08-02-2020 10:30PM

AllForIt wrote: »

So you think cultural diversity is worth it because poor (incapable) people will be better off.

Cultural diversity seems like a good thing on it’s own merits. As to the rest - no idea what you’re trying to say.

Capra · 08-02-2020 10:40PM

alastair wrote: »

And once again - immigrants are net contributors to the Irish economy. Which was the point being made.

Well how far do you take these calculations? Apparently, xenophobia is one of the driving forces behind Brexit. Brexit is apparently the most economically destructive thing that Britain has partaken in since WW2.

So has immigration not caused Brexit? How far do you take these sweeping statements, such as immigrants are net contributors? How far do we have to dig until we find a situation that supports your own view? And then if we keep digging and did your view is undermined do we stop?

Try approaching this conversation with an open mind and realise you berating people for a different view isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

alastair · 08-02-2020 10:46PM

Capra wrote: »

Well how far do you take these calculations? Apparently, xenophobia is one of the driving forces behind Brexit. Brexit is apparently the most economically destructive thing that Britain has partaken in since WW2.

So has immigration not caused Brexit? How far do you take these sweeping statements, such as immigrants are net contributors? How far do we have to dig until we find a situation that supports your own view? And then if we keep digging and did your view is undermined do we stop?

Try approaching this conversation with an open mind and realise you berating people for a different view isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

Brexit was caused by ignorance, not immigrants. Glad to help.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 08-02-2020 10:50PM

Capra wrote: »

Well how far do you take these calculations? Apparently, xenophobia is one of the driving forces behind Brexit. Brexit is apparently the most economically destructive thing that Britain has partaken in since WW2.

So has immigration not caused Brexit? How far do you take these sweeping statements, such as immigrants are net contributors? How far do we have to dig until we find a situation that supports your own view? And then if we keep digging and did your view is undermined do we stop?

Try approaching this conversation with an open mind and realise you berating people for a different view isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

No - that's like blaming the car when the driver was pissed at the wheel.

Capra · 08-02-2020 11:01PM

alastair wrote: »

Brexit was caused by ignorance, not immigrants. Glad to help.

Ah, you are one of those one line posters. Cool.

However if a certain proportion of voters are, through no fault of their own ignorant, is it not problematic to keep importing immigrants? Particularly when we live in a one man, one vote system. The vote of the "ignorant" counts just as much as that of the enlightened.

alastair · 08-02-2020 11:16PM

Capra wrote: »

Ah, you are one of those one line posters. Cool.

However if a certain proportion of voters are, through no fault of their own ignorant, is it not problematic to keep importing immigrants? Particularly when we live in a one man, one vote system. The vote of the "ignorant" counts just as much as that of the enlightened.

Ignorance isn’t the fault of immigrants either. The most immigrant heavy regions in the U.K. voted to remain. And an opinion based on ignorance never counts as much as an enlightened one - even where it’s applied to a vote.

Morgans · 08-02-2020 11:31PM

So the problem isn't that immigration causes damage to society, something that is evidenced by those most likely to interact with them, it's just that the ignorant who are too easy to rile up and perceive them as damaging society.

It does say a lot about those peddling the nonsense.

AllForIt · 08-02-2020 11:34PM

alastair wrote: »

Cultural diversity seems like a good thing on it’s own merits. As to the rest - no idea what you’re trying to say.

Culture derived over thousands of years. Culture is the culture. It doesn't make sense to have 2 cultures side by side. Over time both cultures would meld to one culture. Like hundreds of years more. Then a lefty would hate it because it's considered one culture and would endeavor to split it once again.

Lefty Bicek · 08-02-2020 11:47PM

alastair wrote: »

And once again - immigrants are net contributors to the Irish economy. Which was the point being made.

And once again - not all immigrants are net contributors to the Irish economy.

Which is a more important point to be made.

Lefty Bicek · 08-02-2020 11:51PM

alastair wrote: »

Brexit was caused by ignorance, not immigrants. Glad to help.

Ignorance of what ?

Not ignorance of the 'benefits' of close proximity to mass immigration, that's for sure.

alastair · 09-02-2020 12:08AM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

And once again - not all immigrants are net contributors to the Irish economy.

The post related to ‘non-Irish’ residents. Which means all immigrants.

alastair · 09-02-2020 12:11AM

Morgans wrote: »

So the problem isn't that immigration causes damage to society, something that is evidenced by those most likely to interact with them, it's just that the ignorant who are too easy to rile up and perceive them as damaging society.

It does say a lot about those peddling the nonsense.

It’s evidenced by nothing more than your personal bias. Which is entirely unconvincing. Once again - those most likely to be interacting with larger numbers of immigrants voted remain.

alastair · 09-02-2020 12:13AM

AllForIt wrote: »

Culture derived over thousands of years. Culture is the culture. It doesn't make sense to have 2 cultures side by side. Over time both cultures would meld to one culture. Like hundreds of years more. Then a lefty would hate it because it's considered one culture and would endeavor to split it once again.

Are you claiming any critical consideration for this remarkable theory? Culture is the culture?

Lefty Bicek · 09-02-2020 12:15AM

alastair wrote: »

The post related to ‘non-Irish’ residents. Which means all immigrants.

Indeed. And the link you provided highlights those within that, whose contribution is negative.

Happy to help.

alastair · 09-02-2020 12:21AM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Indeed. And the link you provided highlights those within that, whose contribution is negative.

Happy to help.

It’s actually no help whatsoever, but thanks for your input. I can cherrypick from the Irish populace too. It still wouldn’t change the fact that it was incorrect to state that immigrants are a drain on resources here. They’re net contributors.

Lefty Bicek · 09-02-2020 12:34AM

alastair wrote: »

It’s actually no help whatsoever, but thanks for your input. I can cherrypick from the Irish populace too. It still wouldn’t change the fact that it was incorrect to state that immigrants are a drain on resources here. They’re net contributors.

No, in this context you can not cherrypick from the Irish populace.

Irish people have an intrinsic right to live in this country. Not everyone else does.

Fewer parasitic draws on the system would mean less drain on resources. A desirable thing.

Your source is more informative than you are.

Lefty Bicek · 09-02-2020 12:44AM

alastair wrote: »

It’s evidenced by nothing more than your personal bias. Which is entirely unconvincing. Once again - those most likely to be interacting with larger numbers of immigrants voted remain.

That is so demonstrably untrue in so many places, that you should withdraw it for it's total uselessness.

AllForIt · 09-02-2020 01:28AM

alastair wrote: »

Are you claiming any critical consideration for this remarkable theory? Culture is the culture?

Yeah, what's wrong with that. What's wrong with culture? Have you got a problem with it?

alastair · 09-02-2020 02:41AM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

No, in this context you can not cherrypick from the Irish populace.

Irish people have an intrinsic right to live in this country. Not everyone else does.

Fewer parasitic draws on the system would mean less drain on resources. A desirable thing.

Your source is more informative than you are.

I can cherrypick all I like in response to any cherry picking I encounter. But thanks for your thoughts. Immigrants still net contributors, as stated earlier.

alastair · 09-02-2020 02:43AM

AllForIt wrote: »

Yeah, what's wrong with that. What's wrong with culture? Have you got a problem with it?

I’m a big fan of comprehensible arguments, but maybe it’s just me?

alastair · 09-02-2020 02:43AM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

That is so demonstrably untrue in so many places, that you should withdraw it for it's total uselessness.

Nope. I’m happy enough.

Lefty Bicek · 09-02-2020 03:44AM

alastair wrote: »

I can cherrypick all I like in response to any cherry picking I encounter. But thanks for your thoughts. Immigrants still net contributors, as stated earlier.

I didn't contradict your facile observation.

I just used your source to freshen up that extremely jejeune way in which you present the matter.

You're welcome.

alastair · 09-02-2020 04:20AM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

I didn't contradict your facile observation.

I just used your source to freshen up that extremely jejeune way in which you present the matter.

You're welcome.

You really didn’t. Because I was present the facts in a specifically defined context. Q: Are the non-Irish a draw on resources in Ireland? A: Nope they’re not. They’re net contributors.

Now, if you want to get into strands of people that are not net contributors from either non-Irish, or Irish, you can find ample, but that doesn’t remove from the reality of the issue above. Sorry you feel so sensitive about this.

Lefty Bicek · 09-02-2020 04:31AM

alastair wrote: »

You really didn’t. Because I was present the facts in a specifically defined context. Q: Are the non-Irish a draw on resources in Ireland? A: Nope they’re not. They’re net contributors.

Once again - I took the source you provided, and without contradicting in any way what you had said, highlighted a very apposite and informative insight of the article's.

You don't get to confine the debate strictly to your terms.

Sorry that you're so sensitive about that.

alastair · 09-02-2020 04:33AM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Once again - I took the source you provided, and without contradicting in any way what you had said, highlighted a very apposite and informative insight of the article's.

You don't get to confine the debate strictly to your terms.

Sorry that you're so sensitive about that.

Not my terms - the terms set by the original claim. Glad to help.

Lefty Bicek · 09-02-2020 04:37AM

alastair wrote: »

Not my terms - the terms set by the original claim. Glad to help.

You don't get to confine the debate to anyone else's terms either. Especially via your sources.

Once again, you're welcome.

No right wing alternative= No alternative

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