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Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

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    #362
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    fly_agaric wrote: »
    Knock yourself out I suppose.
    Maybe they'll put up a few Union jacks and bunting for their patrons given the evening that's in it!:pac:

    Unfortunately, doesn't look like they are running below "Brexit Celebrations" price promotion in Ireland:

    https://www.jdwetherspoon.com/news/2020/01/lets-stay-friends

    edit:

    Am laughing and joking, but it is a sad day really.

    For any Brexiter words of friendship, it marks the official start of a whole new chapter of acrimony & mistrust between the UK and Germany/France etc, and unless there's a miracle, the UK and ourselves. The next year or so could end up being some shít show.

    Im going to watch the fire start burning, not to wish them well


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    #363
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Fair play to the UK, looks like they are going to forget about the draconian EU copyright law...

    From:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51240785

    "Universities and Science Minister Chris Skidmore has said that the UK will not implement the EU Copyright Directive after the country leaves the EU."

    For those who are unfamiliar with article 13:

    https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/eu-copyright-legislation

    TL;DR from wikipedia:

    "The copyright law of the European Union consists of a number of directives, which the member states are obliged to enact into their national laws, as interpreted by the decisions of the European Court of Justice. Directives of the EU are passed to harmonise the laws of European Union member states."

    IMHO, this may hasten the next departure from the EU in my opinion. Ordinary people will see firsthand how far the tentacles of the EU go when this law is implemented. They will look at a more open Internet in the UK and want a piece. I remember years ago reading about North Korea and China censoring their citizens Internet activity and thinking how great it was to be free to have an open web.In a few years, when Ireland inevitably implements article 13, I myself will feel like one of my Asian brethren.


  • Options
    #364
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,901 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    biko wrote: »
    Not going to happen, eh?
    ]

    No, not going to happen.


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    #365
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,281 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Bit cynical wrote: »
    I think the original criticism was that the problem was made out to be bigger than it actually was. I believe Italy spent far less on Y2K fixes than other countries yet did not go into meltdown.

    How did Italy compare to other countries in terms of software industry?


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    #366
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Tony EH wrote: »
    The problem is that the union was founded on bringing a lasting peace to Europe after decades of warring factions continually pulled the continent apart, ending in the most devastating war the world has ever seen. Part of Maastricht was an effort to see away with armies and military might being used to settle scores.

    Verhofstadt's nonsense sounds dangerous not only to Eurosceptics, but also people who are pro-EU, as that is absolutely not what was envisaged in the early 90's.

    But, Verhofstadt isn't the EU, despite him being continually used by those who want to denigrate it. His words don't represent the union any more than Nigel Farage's did.

    He's just a "guy" who works there.

    I was never of the opinion that the EC, EEC EU could not change and develop.

    With the UK (the US's primary ally in Europe) now gone from the bloc

    I think it is inevitable if not desirable that we have our own defence capability.


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    #367
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,281 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Fair play to the UK, looks like they are going to forget about the draconian EU copyright law...

    From:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51240785

    "Universities and Science Minister Chris Skidmore has said that the UK will not implement the EU Copyright Directive after the country leaves the EU."

    For those who are unfamiliar with article 13:

    https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/eu-copyright-legislation

    TL;DR from wikipedia:

    "The copyright law of the European Union consists of a number of directives, which the member states are obliged to enact into their national laws, as interpreted by the decisions of the European Court of Justice. Directives of the EU are passed to harmonise the laws of European Union member states."

    IMHO, this may hasten the next departure from the EU in my opinion. Ordinary people will see firsthand how far the tentacles of the EU go when this law is implemented. They will look at a more open Internet in the UK and want a piece. I remember years ago reading about North Korea and China censoring their citizens Internet activity and thinking how great it was to be free to have an open web.In a few years, when Ireland inevitably implements article 13, I myself will feel like one of my Asian brethren.

    Copyright is a bad thing now?


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    #368
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Copyright is a bad thing now?

    Who said it was?

    But it is a bad thing when the EU force us to deal with it their way.

    Some possible effects of article 13:

    * Startup online companies will not be able to implement it meaning larger, already established companies will not have to compete with them and gain a monopoly (things are already bad in that regard as it is)

    * Limits data mining for non profit purposes

    * Peoples free speech online will be hampered by algorithms that falsely flag their posts as copyright (again, things are already bad in that regard as it is)

    * We will no longer be able to use copyrighted material for non profit purposes. For example, I will not be able to post this meme after we are told to implement article 13:

    what-if-chicken-cant-fly-conspiracy-keanu-memes.jpg


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    #369
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,281 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Who said it was?

    But it is a bad thing when the EU force us to deal with it their way.

    Some possible effects of article 13:

    * Startup online companies will not be able to implement it meaning larger, already established companies will not have to compete with them and gain a monopoly (things are already bad in that regard as it is)

    * Limits data mining for non profit purposes

    * Peoples free speech online will be hampered by algorithms that falsely flag their posts as copyright (again, things are already bad in that regard as it is)

    * We will no longer be able to use copyrighted material for non profit purposes. For example, I will not be able to post this meme after we are told to implement article 13:

    what-if-chicken-cant-fly-conspiracy-keanu-memes.jpg

    I know for a fact that that meme myth has been debunked.


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    #370
    Wompa1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    lawred2 wrote: »
    I know for a fact that that meme myth has been debunked.

    It has and there are other concessions around things like fair use sampling e.g. covering a news story and showing someone else's content but referencing them.


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    #371
    yosser hughes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,879 ✭✭✭yosser hughes


    Coronavirus: Three Irish people to be evacuated from Wuhan
    Irish citizens to travel to UK on flight arranged by British government and to be quarantined there
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/coronavirus-three-irish-people-to-be-evacuated-from-wuhan-1.4156521


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    #372
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Kidchameleon wrote:
    Who said it was?

    But it is a bad thing when the EU force us to deal with it their way.

    Some possible effects of article 13:

    * Startup online companies will not be able to implement it meaning larger, already established companies will not have to compete with them and gain a monopoly (things are already bad in that regard as it is)

    * Limits data mining for non profit purposes

    * Peoples free speech online will be hampered by algorithms that falsely flag their posts as copyright (again, things are already bad in that regard as it is)

    * We will no longer be able to use copyrighted material for non profit purposes. For example, I will not be able to post this meme after we are told to implement article 13:

    I don't know much about it (vaguely recall the tech companies lobbying extremely hard against it) but I believe there were specific "fair use" type exemptions added for the generation of content like memes etc. so I wouldn't worry. The alt-right-o-spheres' funnies should be safe.

    Also this list of more prosaic concerns is a long way off the earlier dark hints about a coming Chinese-style internet.

    No mention in any of that of a squad of EU goons knocking on your door if you dare post a derogatory meme about the EU flag/parliament.


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    #373
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    lawred2 wrote: »
    I know for a fact that that meme myth has been debunked.


    Well could you explain it then? I'm happy to be corrected


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    #374
    theological
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    fly_agaric wrote: »
    edit:

    Am laughing and joking, but it is a sad day really.

    For any Brexiter words of friendship, it marks the official start of a whole new chapter of acrimony & mistrust between the UK and Germany/France etc, and unless there's a miracle, the UK and ourselves. The next year or so could end up being some shít show.

    More hyperbole. If there is more acrimony because the UK wants to decide its own affairs the problem is with those who choose to be acrimonious rather than the other way around.

    The fact that people are still here three and a half years later whining about the democratic will of the British people to leave a supranational organisation they don't want to be a part of expressed on three separate occasions is something to behold.

    The overly emotive language from hard remainers is unhelpful. It's time to move on.


  • Options
    #375
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    fly_agaric wrote: »
    I don't know much about it (vaguely recall the tech companies lobbying extremely hard against it) but I believe there were specific "fair use" type exemptions added for the generation of content like memes etc. so I wouldn't worry. The alt-right-o-spheres' funnies should be safe.

    Also this list of more prosaic concerns is a long way off the earlier dark hints about a coming Chinese-style internet.

    No mention in any of that of a squad of EU goons knocking on your door if you dare post a derogatory meme about the EU flag/parliament.


    Thats all well and good but NOBODY least of all some "goon" in Brussels should be telling us what we can and cannot say


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    #376
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Thats all well and good but NOBODY least of all some "goon" in Brussels should be telling us what we can and cannot say

    Didn't most of our democratically elected MEPs vote in favour of it?


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    #377
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,281 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Well could you explain it then? I'm happy to be corrected

    There's an exemption for parody and caricature


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    #378
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    tuxy wrote: »
    Didn't most of our democratically elected MEPs vote in favour of it?


    Yes and I said NOBODY should be telling us what to say. I put the "nobody" part in capital letters in the post you replied to aswell.


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    #379
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    lawred2 wrote: »
    There's an exemption for parody and caricature


    Link please.


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    #380
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    theological wrote: »
    More hyperbole. If there is more acrimony because the UK wants to decide its own affairs the problem is with those who choose to be acrimonious rather than the other way around.

    It is not exaggeration - it is a perfectly possible future.
    Currently more likely IMO than that quote on the UKs new 50p piece.
    Let's hope I'm wrong. We're aware where blame for bumps in the road and any further worsening of relations will be placed by the UK govt. & its brexit-supporting citizens.
    theological wrote: »
    The fact that people are still here three and a half years later whining about the democratic will of the British people to leave a supranational organisation they don't want to be a part of expressed on three separate occasions is something to behold.

    The overly emotive language from hard remainers is unhelpful. It's time to move on.

    Quite an extreme reaction. Ah well, suppose I should have just kept it nice & light but you are on a forum on a website where people may give an opinion on a current affairs issue that you don't like. If you want to celebrate/enjoy it all, wrap yourself in the (UK!) flag + raise a toast to Boris Johnson tomorrow.


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    #381
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,281 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Link please.

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/P-8-2019-000595-ASW_EN.html

    A mandatory exemption where before it was optional..

    I thought everything was supposed to get worse not better...


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    #382
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Thats all well and good but NOBODY least of all some "goon" in Brussels should be telling us what we can and cannot say

    Your speech on the internet is restricted in various ways. You brought the Chinese (and North Korea) into it at the start for dramatic effect.

    My limited knowledge on this law suggests it could cause problems in its implementation (e.g. automated bulk "filters" that are too coarse grained - something I think already happens at times in other areas with auto porn filters and the like), not "goons" of any stripe ordering things removed.


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    #383
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    fly_agaric wrote: »
    You brought the Chinese (and North Korea) into it at the start for dramatic effect.


    No I did not. I brought them in to show what may be down the road (and that is clear from my post). Nobody is saying or trying to say the EU is as bad as that yet.


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    #384
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    lawred2 wrote: »
    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/P-8-2019-000595-ASW_EN.html

    A mandatory exemption where before it was optional..

    I thought everything was supposed to get worse not better...


    Well in the link you shared is says that the exemption still needs to be agreed so we shall see.


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    #385
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Link please.

    It's actually listed in the Wikipedia link about the article that you posted earlier, but didn't include the link too I believe

    Also the British music industry and artist lobby doesn't seem to happy about the U.K. government not implementing it.


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    #386
    SCOOP 64
    Registered Users Posts: 5,208 ✭✭✭SCOOP 64


    Will this thread close tomorrow night, because the answer is yes.


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    #387
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    Also the British music industry and artist lobby doesn't seem to happy about the U.K. government not implementing it.

    Of course they are not happy. It is designed to lime their pockets whilst sh1tting on people like you and me


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    #388
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Of course they are not happy. It is designed to lime their pockets whilst sh1tting on people like you and me

    So people who write and produce their own original material are taking a dump on the rest of us. Yeah that makes sense.


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    #389
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    SCOOP 64 wrote: »
    Will this thread close tomorrow night, because the answer is yes.

    No not really because most of the UK still have to deal with all EU regulations with no say for the how they are decided for at least the next year and for part of the UK ie NI indefinitely. So much for taking back control.

    And next we have the hard part trade negotiations. Which will probably end up resulting in the UK turning into another Switzerland where all EU regulations are pretty much followed. And given how BJ has given away part of the UK at the easy stage it'll be interesting to see how he copes dealing with the EU, USA, China, India, Australia etc who will all be out to get the best deal possible from the UK and none of these trade demands are going to be mutually compatible. Given how disastrous and clueless Boris and Brexiters(the lack of knowledge about the importance of the Dover Calais route being one of many examples) have been so far it'll be interesting to see what they produce over the next few years.

    So is the UK going to piss off? no it can't it shares a land border with the EU and after midnight it will have to shout from the sidelines while laws are imposed on it without any say in those laws. And even after the transition period part of the UK will remain under partial EU control.

    The EU due to geography will remain the UKs most important trade partner and as Brexit has shown can assert as massive amount of control over the UK and there is nothing the UK can do so expect UK politicians to start commenting on the EU when this reality eventually hits home.


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    #390
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    So people who write and produce their own original material are taking a dump on the rest of us. Yeah that makes sense.

    I am involved in that. You do not understand how it works. Modern day sales depend on sharing.

    A perfect example is Freddie Mercury. He died almost 30 years ago. He would not have been remembered so well and those linked to him would not have made so much money since, if people hadn't shared even illegally his work and all the paraphernalia around him.

    It goes deeper than that. If the copywrite issue is enforced most of Youtube will be at risk. Together with lots of other sites.


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    #391
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    I am involved in that. You do not understand how it works. Modern day sales depend on sharing.

    A perfect example is Freddie Mercury. He died almost 30 years ago. He would not have been remembered so well and those linked to him would not have made so much money since, if people hadn't shared even illegally his work and all the paraphernalia around him.

    It goes deeper than that. If the copywrite issue is enforced most of Youtube will be at risk. Together with lots of other sites.

    If music is being shared without royalties being paid, no the artist isn't being paid. If I copy an album and sell it who is getting paid? If I even just give the copy away who is getting paid?

    Queen and most bands, have their own official YouTube channels.
    This and given that, Queen have continued to tour with different front men since Freddie died, along with their songs being covered by younger artists means that they continued to both make money and be remembered and discovered by people.


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