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Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

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    #272
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Boredstiff666 wrote:
    VAT. It is obscene and a tax of nearly 25% of the sale price. So basically every body is penalised by nearly a quarter of the price of goods just for purchasing an item or needing to purchase an item.

    The EU set a minimum VAT rate of 15%. Anything above the that is up to individual countries. Most countries levy more.


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    #273
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Boredstiff666 wrote:
    VAT was an EU tax I think origionally ideared at the beginning of the EU and introduced into most countries when they joined.


    No it isn't. 140 countries have it.


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    #274
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    First Up wrote: »
    The EU set a minimum VAT rate of 15%. Anything above the that is up to individual countries. Most countries levy more.

    Yeah like I said they have become addicted to it.

    David Cameron lowered UK vat to the lowest he could within the EU about 10years ago to kick start the economy.

    This worked fantastically well and was very successful but he raised it again.

    It was also a very powerful tool in Ireland as well as it sucked the money out of the country and it all went north.

    This was before Amazon was going full steam. I wonder what would have happened if they were. It would have finished a bankrupt Ireland then.

    I know how powerful it was because I was importing UK goods then....good times.

    Now imagine same happening again which it will up north.


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    #275
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Just under 3 days left until the big day. It has been a hard fought campaign with great arguments from both side. I hope anyone who is disappointed and worried with the outcome will see the positive's really soon.


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    #276
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    First Up wrote: »
    No it isn't. 140 countries have it.

    Oh jesus sometimes I think you must be 13 years old with one school history book.

    Countries do have taxes on goods purchased but its not the vat the EU uses and its not on the same goods. It could be on more it could be on less.

    In the UK it used to be called something else and before joining the EU it was always around 7%


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    #277
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    First Up wrote: »
    The EU set a minimum VAT rate of 15%. Anything above the that is up to individual countries. Most countries levy more.

    Will be interesting to see if the U.K.returns to using the purchase tax rather than VAT


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    #278
    theological
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    First Up wrote: »
    Yes, but their interest is in selling more to the UK, not buying more from it.
    The UK's is in selling more to other countries. Other countries may well sell more into the UK provided that the UK gets terms that allow them to sell to other countries.

    You bizarrely think this isn't possible.

    In the EU parliament Euro-federalists such as Verhofstadt think the UK will rejoin. Why would they do this when the EU will demand Euro membership, Schengen membership on rejoining?


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    #279
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Boredstiff666 wrote:
    Yeah like I said they have become addicted to it.


    Countries control their own fiscal policy. VAT or Sales Tax is a standard revenue collecting instrument, like Income tax, Property Tax, Corporation tax etc.

    All the EU has done is set a minimum of 15% (and max of 25%) which makes perfect sense within a Single Market. Several countries are closer to the maximum than the minimum.

    The EU didn't force the UK to set theirs at 20%.


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    #280
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    Will be interesting to see if the U.K.returns to using the purchase tax rather than VAT

    Well they did talk of tax free enterprise zones and some in NI.

    Get my stealth van ready. Spare set of plates and blacked out windows. Gardai and Customs detector. Drones all airborne locked and loaded:D


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    #281
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    First Up wrote: »
    Countries control their own fiscal policy. VAT or Sales Tax is a standard revenue collecting instrument, like Income tax, Property Tax, Corporation tax etc.....But in the EU it cant be abolished or below 15%

    All the EU has done is set a minimum of 15% (and max of 25%) which makes perfect sense within a Single Market. Several countries are closer to the maximum than the minimum. Whoopee doo...like I keep saying but you fail to understand....Govs become addicted to it

    The EU didn't force the UK to set theirs at 20%. Who said they did not me


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    #282
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    Well they did talk of tax free enterprise zones and some in NI.

    Get my stealth van ready. Spare set of plates and blacked out windows. Gardai and Customs detector. Drones all airborne locked and loaded:D

    More likely the smugglers will be coming in here for cheaper, better quality goods.


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    #283
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    Well they did talk of tax free enterprise zones and some in NI.

    Get my stealth van ready. Spare set of plates and blacked out windows. Gardai and Customs detector. Drones all airborne locked and loaded:D

    Be more likely that it wouldn't be worth your time.


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    #284
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    theological wrote:
    You bizarrely think this isn't possible.


    I'm intrigued at how you bizarrely reached that conclusion.

    You said countries are interested in expanding trade with the UK. Their interest is in selling more, which they think they can do by forcing the UK to set lower import duties than apply now as part of the EU.

    They can put pressure on the UK by threatening to raise duties or set quotas on what they import from the UK.

    Of course the UK can haggle over it but it will be with 10% of the leverage they have as an EU member.


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    #285
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,494 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    Yeah like I said they have become addicted to it.

    David Cameron lowered UK vat to the lowest he could within the EU about 10years ago to kick start the economy.

    This worked fantastically well and was very successful but he raised it again.

    It was also a very powerful tool in Ireland as well as it sucked the money out of the country and it all went north.

    This was before Amazon was going full steam. I wonder what would have happened if they were. It would have finished a bankrupt Ireland then.

    I know how powerful it was because I was importing UK goods then....good times.

    Now imagine same happening again which it will up north.

    On reading your post it would appear that even within the EU the UK had very much control over VAT.

    But you completely failed to answer my points about trade. 2 sites, one EU (whether selling within the EU itself or based on a FTA with a 3rd country) and the UK. The UK company will suffer tariffs both on any goods coming into the country for manufacturing and then on the export. So the EU country will be cheaper.

    In my simplistic model the difference was one would charge delivery and the other wouldn't. Which one would you buy?

    So even if dealing with a Non EU country, they will need to give up something to get a FTA with the other country, what will that be? And please fill me in on the current regulations of trade agreements that, being in the EU, have held the UK back from these other countries?


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    #286
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    On reading your post it would appear that even within the EU the UK had very much control over VAT.....Explained in depth.

    But you completely failed to answer my points about trade. 2 sites, one EU (whether selling within the EU itself or based on a FTA with a 3rd country) and the UK. The UK company will suffer tariffs both on any goods coming into the country for manufacturing and then on the export. So the EU country will be cheaper....Never bought that subject up all yours I think.

    In my simplistic model the difference was one would charge delivery and the other wouldn't. Which one would you buy?....As someone who has had different businesses if you are talking about Joe Public you would be amazed how they are attracted to the golden word...'Cheapest'.

    So even if dealing with a Non EU country, they will need to give up something to get a FTA with the other country, what will that be? And please fill me in on the current regulations of trade agreements that, being in the EU, have held the UK back from these other countries?....Unlike you I do not have a crystal ball.....or insider knowlege to the UK trade meetings with the rest of the world to form the opinion of yours that they are doomed to fail......I have always said wait and see what happens because I suspect all hell will break loose after next week. maybe not straight away but at sometime.


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    #287
    tom_tarbucket
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,083 ✭✭✭tom_tarbucket


    Maybe I am missing something here. For the last 3 years the news has been obsessed with Brexit. Countdown timers to Brexit, headline news every night, how it will affect us.

    And now it’s actually happening on Saturday - and there are no countdown timers, gets a mention in the news only.

    What isn’t there all the excitement there was about it?


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    #288
    quokula
    Registered Users Posts: 3,574 ✭✭✭quokula


    tom_tarbucket wrote: »
    Maybe I am missing something here. For the last 3 years the news has been obsessed with Brexit. Countdown timers to Brexit, headline news every night, how it will affect us.

    And now it’s actually happening on Saturday - and there are no countdown timers, gets a mention in the news only.

    What isn’t there all the excitement there was about it?

    It achieved its purpose. The conservatives have total control of the government for the next 5 years. No need to scrutinise what they're doing.


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    #289
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    tom_tarbucket wrote: »
    Maybe I am missing something here. For the last 3 years the news has been obsessed with Brexit. Countdown timers to Brexit, headline news every night, how it will affect us.

    And now it’s actually happening on Saturday - and there are no countdown timers, gets a mention in the news only.

    What isn’t there all the excitement there was about it?

    Maybe it will be like the year 2000 at midnight 1999 new years eve, when that clock struck the power stations were supposed to fail, planes fall out of sky, and most of us wouldnt wake up next morning......Can't think of one event that happened.

    But you have to remember this thread as with all the others is all about..............How the UK is going to fail and die in a ditch after Brexit and the Glorious EU is going to rule for a thousand years.

    EU glorious.........Brits and Brexit bad.


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    #290
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,494 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    Leroy42 wrote: »
    On reading your post it would appear that even within the EU the UK had very much control over VAT.....Explained in depth.

    But you completely failed to answer my points about trade. 2 sites, one EU (whether selling within the EU itself or based on a FTA with a 3rd country) and the UK. The UK company will suffer tariffs both on any goods coming into the country for manufacturing and then on the export. So the EU country will be cheaper....Never bought that subject up all yours I think.

    In my simplistic model the difference was one would charge delivery and the other wouldn't. Which one would you buy?....As someone who has had different businesses if you are talking about Joe Public you would be amazed how they are attracted to the golden word...'Cheapest'.

    So even if dealing with a Non EU country, they will need to give up something to get a FTA with the other country, what will that be? And please fill me in on the current regulations of trade agreements that, being in the EU, have held the UK back from these other countries?....Unlike you I do not have a crystal ball.....or insider knowlege to the UK trade meetings with the rest of the world to form the opinion of yours that they are doomed to fail......I have always said wait and see what happens because I suspect all hell will break loose after next week. maybe not straight away but at sometime.

    But we know what is going to happen. History shows us that barriers reduce trade, people opt for the cheaper of two same products.

    The only reason to say you don't know what is going to happen is on the basis that yo hold out the possibility that this time will be different. But there is nothing to suggest that. So logic and reason points to taking the view that it will be bad for the UK.

    Luckily most decisions are not made on the basis on simply 'hope' and some thought is put into it. In effect Brexit is a massive gamble, a gamble with peoples livelihoods and futures and unlike most gambles the actual outcome of success isn't even known.


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    #291
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    Maybe it will be like the year 2000 at midnight 1999 new years eve, when that clock struck the power stations were supposed to fail, planes fall out of sky, and most of us wouldnt wake up next morning......Can't think of one event that happened.

    Yes the millinem was not a big issue because of all the money and careful planning that went in to preventing problems.
    I guess Brexit has had the same level of careful planning.


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    #292
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 67,051 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    quokula wrote: »
    It achieved its purpose. The conservatives have total control of the government for the next 5 years. No need to scrutinise what they're doing.

    Absolutely this. We got what we wanted. Nothing to be said now, just grab the popcorn.


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    #293
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    tuxy wrote: »
    Yes the millinem was not a big issue because of all the money and careful planning that went in to preventing problems.
    .

    I could never see how these problems were going to happen anyway.

    I remember it was all around the same time when people were investing in the dotcom bubbles. Websites and businesses which are valueless.

    People made millions and it all collapsed.


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    #294
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Boredstiff666 wrote: »

    But we know what is going to happen. History shows us that barriers reduce trade, people opt for the cheaper of two same products..... Exactly.

    The only reason to say you don't know what is going to happen is on the basis that yo hold out the possibility that this time will be different. But there is nothing to suggest that. So logic and reason points to taking the view that it will be bad for the UK.

    No what I say is there are very powerful people or organisations who will want to destroy so that they can gain and make money or seize power etc.

    The anti-Brits and anti-Brexiteers on here say that it is doom for the UK not because they know anything or insider knowlege or proof. But it is something that they dont like because it will affect them in some way.

    Wasting their time on Boards spouting doom and gloom to the UK will not change a thing. Might make them feel better I suppose until the **** hits their fan.


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    #295
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »

    I remember it was all around the same time when people were investing in the dotcom bubbles. Websites and businesses which are valueless.

    People made millions and it all collapsed.

    Assets on the stock exchange being overvalued? First and only time that happened.....


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    #296
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,494 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Boredstiff666 wrote: »

    But we know what is going to happen. History shows us that barriers reduce trade, people opt for the cheaper of two same products..... Exactly.

    The only reason to say you don't know what is going to happen is on the basis that yo hold out the possibility that this time will be different. But there is nothing to suggest that. So logic and reason points to taking the view that it will be bad for the UK.

    No what I say is there are very powerful people or organisations who will want to destroy so that they can gain and make money or seize power etc.

    The anti-Brits and anti-Brexiteers on here say that it is doom for the UK not because they know anything or insider knowlege or proof. But it is something that they dont like because it will affect them in some way.

    Wasting their time on Boards spouting doom and gloom to the UK will not change a thing. Might make them feel better I suppose until the **** hits their fan.


    Right, so can you point to anything that points to the normal order of things, ie trade deals leading to increased trade, not being true this time?

    Do you have any examples of how the UK will make up for the lost trade with the EU?


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    #297
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,494 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    I could never see how these problems were going to happen anyway.

    Then you didn't understand the problem. The fact that people that did understand it made sure it didn't happen by working out solutions doesn't mean the problem didn't exist.


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    #298
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    Leroy42 wrote: »


    Right, so can you point to anything that points to the normal order of things, ie trade deals leading to increased trade, not being true this time?

    Do you have any examples of how the UK will make up for the lost trade with the EU?

    I imagine that people are talking to outside EU businesses regards trade from the UK. What and who I have no idea or make no claims. Others on here just say it is futile and all bad for UK. I do not have such priviliged info.


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    #299
    Bit cynical
    Registered Users Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Bit cynical


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Then you didn't understand the problem. The fact that people that did understand it made sure it didn't happen by working out solutions doesn't mean the problem didn't exist.
    I think the original criticism was that the problem was made out to be bigger than it actually was. I believe Italy spent far less on Y2K fixes than other countries yet did not go into meltdown.


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    #300
    timetogo1
    Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭timetogo1


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    I could never see how these problems were going to happen anyway.

    Unsurprising. You seem to have the same attitude to Brexit.
    Lots of experts working behind the scenes too now to control the mess. Well on the EU side anyway.


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    #301
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    timetogo1 wrote: »
    Unsurprising. You seem to have the same attitude to Brexit.
    Lots of experts working behind the scenes too now to control the mess. Well on the EU side anyway.

    Ok lets say your correct with your attack on me.

    So show me......what or why my attitude is so wrong.

    Then show us you proof and knowlege of these experts you speak of and which policys they are working on.

    Documentations, photos, secret documents, videos, anything...the floor is yours put them up.

    You must have all this info and proof because you are correct of course.


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