Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

Shefwedfan · 22-08-2019 02:12PM

Coltrane wrote: »

PV->EV charging will work well for you. I have it myself and haven't used the grid to charge the car at home (where I mainly charge) since March. V2H, the ability to use your EV's battery for your house, should also become a reality in the next 3-5 years.

One point to bear in mind when sizing your PV-array is that currently EVs (at least those charged by the CCS-standard, like mine) will only start charging at 1.4kW. You won't be able to trickle-charge with less. You'll therefore need a larger array, and even at the current ESB-limit of 6kWp you'll struggle in the winter to both run your HP and charge your car. Whatever I produced from my 5kWp array in January was soaked up by my HP. Exported only 1kWh that month and don't think I got any charge for the car.

If you have a heat pump then I would expect you to need a massive installation of PV to try and drive it plus electric car. It would be one or the other for me.

Use the PV for electric car during summer and for HP during winter, night rate to charge the car.

unkel · 22-08-2019 10:46PM

Balanadan wrote: »

Undersizing is done for a number of reasons. Why pay extra for capacity that you will never use?

Your opinion is based on outdated information. I know it's a mantra that a lot of people who were involved with solar PV a long time ago have maintained ever since. But it simply no longer holds true. A higher capacity inverter costs virtually the same as a lower capacity one

Solis 3.6kW hybrid - €1,258 + VAT

Solis 5kW hybrid - €1,298 + VAT

If you go for an undersized inverter and later add more panels, you are screwed as you will have to change your inverter

There are no longer any good reasons for undersizing

wexfordman2 · 22-08-2019 11:56PM

If I was building from scratch and wished to cater for a future solar Pv, I would nearly consider installing just the panels and wiring, but out in 6kwp of panels.

Also, the design of the house if you've not finalised it should allow for max number of panels on a south facing roof.

Say7ng that again, the cost of putting in the full Pv system would not be much more, and tiny relative to the cost of the overall build.

Maybe another drawback is if you put the panels in, and dont fully deploy until 5 yes or more later, warranty, degradation etc would be whittled down.

unkel · 23-08-2019 12:33AM

wexfordman2 wrote: »

If I was building from scratch and wished to cater for a future solar Pv, I would nearly consider installing just the panels and wiring, but out in 6kwp of panels.

Now that we have the jurisprudence that you can put up as many panels as you like anywhere on your property without planning permission (lady with front, road facing, roof plastered with panels who never applied for planning permission and was refused retention permission and was told to take down the panels, won case at the highest level) I wonder when the next hurdle will fall (ESB networks limit of production of 6kW of PV)

Seems like an arbitrary limit anyway.

eamon_l · 23-08-2019 09:18AM

Just received a quote for a 4kw Tier 1 system with the following system specification for an east/west split installation; The system comes with panel optimisers with 20yr guarantee, 4kw Inverter, 4.8kw Pylon battery and a smart immersion for hot water.
Price quoted is €15,450 less grant €3,800 = €11,650 including VAT. 20yr guarantee on everything except the battery (10yrs)
Reading most of the 2019 posts this seems a little expensive even if it is top of the range?

wexfordman2 · 23-08-2019 09:37AM

eamon_l wrote: »

Just received a quote for a 4kw Tier 1 system with the following system specification for an east/west split installation; The system comes with panel optimisers with 20yr guarantee, 4kw Inverter, 4.8kw Pylon battery and a smart immersion for hot water.
Price quoted is €15,450 less grant €3,800 = €11,650 including VAT. 20yr guarantee on everything except the battery (10yrs)
Reading most of the 2019 posts this seems a little expensive even if it is top of the range?

Absolute RIP off imho.

KCross · 23-08-2019 09:37AM

eamon_l wrote: »

Just received a quote for a 4kw Tier 1 system....

lol lol lol.... whats a "Tier 1" system when its out?

Thats just their way of saying we are going to ride you on price and they are!

wexfordman2 · 23-08-2019 09:39AM

unkel wrote: »

wexfordman2 wrote: »

If I was building from scratch and wished to cater for a future solar Pv, I would nearly consider installing just the panels and wiring, but out in 6kwp of panels.

Now that we have the jurisprudence that you can put up as many panels as you like anywhere on your property without planning permission (lady with front, road facing, roof plastered with panels who never applied for planning permission and was refused retention permission and was told to take down the panels, won case at the highest level) I wonder when the next hurdle will fall (ESB networks limit of production of 6kW of PV)

Seems like an arbitrary limit anyway.

Is the esb limitation not based on network limitations ? Ie they cant have too much power being fed back to local transformers ?

Alkers · 23-08-2019 09:40AM

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Absolute RIP off imho.

Agreed, I think the optimisers and e-w split add to the cost but otherwise almost double what you'd expect to pay

eamon_l · 23-08-2019 10:16AM

panman2019 wrote: »

4KW system with 5KW inverter and 5.7KW battery €10k including Vat
Grant back €3800
Cost to house €6200
Hot water diverter €300
PM me and ill get you company, 30yr on panels (85% efficient after 25yr), Alpha Smile 5 battery and inverter

With a battery installed did you not get the €1000 grant for that too?

CiaranIRE · 23-08-2019 01:32PM

KCross wrote: »

Yes, the new smart meters will do away with the need for the import/export meter... thats what ESB told me anyway.

Would you have that in writing by any chance?

I spoke to the ESB and they told me the smart meter wouldn't do export metering. I was then put onto someone more senior who confirmed '100%' it won't do export metering and I would need to pay the €340 for a separate meter.

I've sent them an email just to clarify it again(with a few links to documents saying otherwise). Waiting to hear back from them.

KCross · 23-08-2019 02:05PM

CiaranIRE wrote: »

Would you have that in writing by any chance?

I spoke to the ESB and they told me the smart meter wouldn't do export metering. I was then put onto someone more senior who confirmed '100%' it won't do export metering and I would need to pay the €340 for a separate meter.

I've sent them an email just to clarify it again(with a few links to documents saying otherwise). Waiting to hear back from them.

It was actually the CRU told me, not Eirgrid. I'd be surprised if it didnt support import and export. They are literally spending billions installing these so to leave out the ability to monitor export would be ridiculous.

Anyway, this is the email I got from them

From: Customer Care <CustomerCare@cer.ie>
Sent: Tuesday 21 August 2018 10:14
Subject: RE: Smart meter rollout and import/export meters for SolarPV

Thank you for contacting the Commission for Regulation of Utilities.

The smart metering upgrade is to be carried out in three phases between 2019 and 2024. The first smart meters will be switched on at the end of 2020. The smart meters will be able to measure the amount of energy imported and exported to the grid. Additional functionality will be delivered at the end of 2024, whereby the smart meters will be able to communicate with separate metering where it is installed on site for microgeneration. This will allow for the generation from a specific micro generator (say a solar pv panel) to be measured, rather than just the overall amount of energy exported to the Grid.

Yours sincerely,

Seamie Lyons

CiaranIRE · 23-08-2019 02:30PM

KCross wrote: »

It was actually the CRU told me, not Eirgrid. I'd be surprised if it didnt support import and export. They are literally spending billions installing these so to leave out the ability to monitor export would be ridiculous.

Anyway, this is the email I got from them

From: Customer Care <CustomerCare@cer.ie>
Sent: Tuesday 21 August 2018 10:14
Subject: RE: Smart meter rollout and import/export meters for SolarPV

Thank you for contacting the Commission for Regulation of Utilities.

The smart metering upgrade is to be carried out in three phases between 2019 and 2024. The first smart meters will be switched on at the end of 2020. The smart meters will be able to measure the amount of energy imported and exported to the grid. Additional functionality will be delivered at the end of 2024, whereby the smart meters will be able to communicate with separate metering where it is installed on site for microgeneration. This will allow for the generation from a specific micro generator (say a solar pv panel) to be measured, rather than just the overall amount of energy exported to the Grid.

Yours sincerely,

Seamie Lyons

Thanks,

I've sent 6 or 7 links to them in an email, one was from the CRU website, another from their own website, a couple more from oireachtas.ie, all state the smart meter can do export metering.

Of the 3 people I spoke to, none of them seemed sure if the meter even done day/night metering.

I was originally calling in regards to requesting priority installation, but was told that wasn't done either.

The senior person was also quick to shoot down any mention of a feed in tariff being announced soon.

I'll update when I hear something back.

unkel · 23-08-2019 05:40PM

CiaranIRE wrote: »

Of the 3 people I spoke to, none of them seemed sure if the meter even done day/night metering.

Hahaha!

It can't measure import / export and it only has one tariff (full day rate)?

You should have asked him how come it's called a smart meter then?

Evd-Burner · 23-08-2019 06:02PM

A few years ago in a previous company we worked with smart meters. The ones we worked with were extremely versatile and could take in a multitude of feeds separate to their main metering. They could connect with other MBus, ModBus, Zwave and simple pulsing meters and export that data.

They recorded every 30 minutes how much watts went in each direction (import and export) and they could be updated remotely. You could have a sim card in each meter or connect them together via a mesh and have 1 or 2 with sims that could upload all the data.

There was a relay to switch on and off the power and there were controllable contacts to both control external relays and for tamper proofing switches etc.

They could be programmed to even work for prepay customers.

thos · 25-08-2019 01:51PM

Coltrane wrote: »

PV->EV charging will work well for you. I have it myself and haven't used the grid to charge the car at home (where I mainly charge) since March.

Sounds impressive.

Can you share some further details? What car, mileage and how much kWh or range are you typically adding? Presuming no other domestic battery setup?

I'm at odds with EV charging off solar. I've got a domestic DC battery which takes priority, so power only goes to the EV after the battery is charged, with the times of day we use the car I've really only seen 20km/5kwh added to the car. Great to ensure I'm getting 'something' for the power and not exporting for nothing, but using the battery to hep offset daytime use and then night-rate for EV charging seems most cost effective for me.

I've dropped the Zappi to about 70% solar to have it kick in once there is at least 1kw being exported.

Gumbo · 25-08-2019 04:35PM

eamon_l wrote: »

With a battery installed did you not get the €1000 grant for that too?

€3800
Is the max grant inclusive of the battery.

unkel · 25-08-2019 10:38PM

thos wrote: »

I've really only seen 20km/5kwh added to the car.

What EV is that? I get at least double that range from 5kWh in Ioniq in summer

thos · 26-08-2019 08:28AM

unkel wrote: »

What EV is that? I get at least double that range from 5kWh in Ioniq in summer

Model X.

Double as it's probably half the weight.

Coltrane · 26-08-2019 10:43AM

thos wrote: »

Sounds impressive.

Can you share some further details? What car, mileage and how much kWh or range are you typically adding? Presuming no other domestic battery setup?

I'm at odds with EV charging off solar. I've got a domestic DC battery which takes priority, so power only goes to the EV after the battery is charged, with the times of day we use the car I've really only seen 20km/5kwh added to the car. Great to ensure I'm getting 'something' for the power and not exporting for nothing, but using the battery to hep offset daytime use and then night-rate for EV charging seems most cost effective for me.

I've dropped the Zappi to about 70% solar to have it kick in once there is at least 1kw being exported.

It's an i3, doing about 7,000km per annum, at the house quite a bit during the day and only really charged at public chargers during trips out of Dublin. The array is an east-west 5kWp. I've no battery, but a heat pump which soaks up a bit of PV during the day at this time of the year heating the hot water, and lots of the PV during the rest of the year heating the house. Self-consumption this year to date is 66%, much higher during the darker months, >95% in December and January.

Hope the Zappi is working well enough with your DC battery, I had heard there was an incompatability.

Coltrane · 26-08-2019 10:55AM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you have a heat pump then I would expect you to need a massive installation of PV to try and drive it plus electric car. It would be one or the other for me.

Use the PV for electric car during summer and for HP during winter, night rate to charge the car.

Right, that's pretty much how it works. I get close to nothing into the car during the winter. The heat pump takes it all. So I've a large export during the summer (263kWh last month), but fairly low energy bills during the winter and a house which is decarbonised (if you disregard how the grid operates).

The unpaid export doesn't bother me too much as its value is very small compared to...well lots of things including some of the renewables I've bought and the financial and other risks of climate change. Its a carbon-free contribution to the grid, which the grid seems able to handle for now.

My perspective is that I'm not going to second-guess the science that we have a serious climate emergency and want to do everything that I can to mitigate now before it's too late.

What more can I do: use the car less and the bike more, diet, more insulation for the house (looking at externally insulating period facades), more PV when the ESB limit is raised.

thos · 26-08-2019 11:15AM

Coltrane wrote: »

It's an i3, doing about 7,000km per annum, at the house quite a bit during the day and only really charged at public chargers during trips out of Dublin. The array is an east-west 5kWp. I've no battery, but a heat pump which soaks up a bit of PV during the day at this time of the year heating the hot water, and lots of the PV during the rest of the year heating the house. Self-consumption this year to date is 66%, much higher during the darker months, >95% in December and January.

Hope the Zappi is working well enough with your DC battery, I had heard there was an incompatability.

Nice. While I'm only getting a small solar charge to the car, it's massively rewarding knowing you're driving on pure self generated power, getting that much usage from yours must be very nice.

Zappi works ok with the DC, on Eco+ there is an 'export margin' which ensures it's only using pure export and not eating into the battery.
The battery takes priority from a charging perspective, so Eco+ only kicks in after the batter is full, or if I've got enough excess above the battery's charge rate (2.4kw), so from my 5.2kw arrange I need to be generating 3.8kw + house load to start charging the car, which is a small window.
Doing a full 'boost' charge will of course consume the battery if it's there, but at present the timer only comes in after 1am at which point the battery is usually depleted anyway.

What heat pump have you got and is it doing any smart EDDI-like charging? I'm still trying to get my Daikin heat pump setup to use excess solar, but not there yet.

Coltrane · 26-08-2019 01:36PM

thos wrote: »

Nice. While I'm only getting a small solar charge to the car, it's massively rewarding knowing you're driving on pure self generated power, getting that much usage from yours must be very nice.

Zappi works ok with the DC, on Eco+ there is an 'export margin' which ensures it's only using pure export and not eating into the battery.
The battery takes priority from a charging perspective, so Eco+ only kicks in after the batter is full, or if I've got enough excess above the battery's charge rate (2.4kw), so from my 5.2kw arrange I need to be generating 3.8kw + house load to start charging the car, which is a small window.
Doing a full 'boost' charge will of course consume the battery if it's there, but at present the timer only comes in after 1am at which point the battery is usually depleted anyway.

What heat pump have you got and is it doing any smart EDDI-like charging? I'm still trying to get my Daikin heat pump setup to use excess solar, but not there yet.

Thanks, and yes I used the export-margin function on my own Zappi because while using an earlier version of its firmware it was dipping a bit too much into grid-power even though on eco+, 100%. A firmware upgrade using Zappi’s new hub fixed that.

I’ve a NIBE2040 and also UFH and had hoped I could use the UFH and cylinder as batteries using an accessory sold by NIBE for exactly that purpose. But the accessory doesn’t work. So all I can do is use IFTTT to activate the HP to heat the hot water when the generation hits a big (gross-disregarding consumption) production number. Disappointing. Seems to me that HPs should these days and with their extremely expensive pricing be able to do this.

Would you think of adding more ‘islanded’ PV (connected only to your battery, not the grid, so as not to breach the ESB 6kW limit) to charge your X? Think it’s poss but I’m no electrician.

niallers1 · 26-08-2019 02:21PM

Coltrane wrote: »

Hope the Zappi is working well enough with your DC battery, I had heard there was an incompatability.

I have a DC Pylontech battery and it generally works fine with the Zappi.

I normally only charge with it on eco or eco +during daylight hours.
Eco+ will only charge on if there is at least 1400w from solar ( set up with small margin like somebody said earlier). Eco needs 1400w and will use a mix of solar pv, battery or grid if battery is depleted.
Fast charge will take from Solar/Battery or grid to get +3000w.

thos · 26-08-2019 03:38PM

Coltrane wrote: »

Thanks, and yes I used the export-margin function on my own Zappi because while using an earlier version of its firmware it was dipping a bit too much into grid-power even though on eco+, 100%. A firmware upgrade using Zappi’s new hub fixed that.

I’ve a NIBE2040 and also UFH and had hoped I could use the UFH and cylinder as batteries using an accessory sold by NIBE for exactly that purpose. But the accessory doesn’t work. So all I can do is use IFTTT to activate the HP to heat the hot water when the generation hits a big (gross-disregarding consumption) production number. Disappointing. Seems to me that HPs should these days and with their extremely expensive pricing be able to do this.

Would you think of adding more ‘islanded’ PV (connected only to your battery, not the grid, so as not to breach the ESB 6kW limit) to charge your X? Think it’s poss but I’m no electrician.

Daikin has similar 'add on' for solar, but they seem to know little about it, and none of the installers seems interested in helping with just an add-on. I'm going to attempt DIY install, but the unit itself needs a firmware updated which doesn't look user friendly at all.

I'm looking at the HP add-on first, and possibly more panels and battery next year depending on pricing, doubt I'd go as far as dedicated solar for car. I'd rather better API control over the batteries to help build my own crude prioritisation of DC battery vs car. The odd time I've manually switched off the batteries to get some charge in the car (knowing the car is there in the morning but won't be in the afternoon, and knowing good forecast will let battery charge up later in the day). I'm playing with the Tesla and MyEnergi API's at the moment to build some better monitoring, and at the moment have my GivEnergy data + Efergy data (HP dedicated) on 1 dashboard, so will be adding the others soon to give me better visibility of everything all together.

Coltrane · 26-08-2019 05:00PM

thos wrote: »

Daikin has similar 'add on' for solar, but they seem to know little about it, and none of the installers seems interested in helping with just an add-on. I'm going to attempt DIY install, but the unit itself needs a firmware updated which doesn't look user friendly at all.

I'm looking at the HP add-on first, and possibly more panels and battery next year depending on pricing, doubt I'd go as far as dedicated solar for car. I'd rather better API control over the batteries to help build my own crude prioritisation of DC battery vs car. The odd time I've manually switched off the batteries to get some charge in the car (knowing the car is there in the morning but won't be in the afternoon, and knowing good forecast will let battery charge up later in the day). I'm playing with the Tesla and MyEnergi API's at the moment to build some better monitoring, and at the moment have my GivEnergy data + Efergy data (HP dedicated) on 1 dashboard, so will be adding the others soon to give me better visibility of everything all together.

Sounds like lots of geeky-green fun!

If you're in a period house and managed to do something with the facade insulation, I'd be really interested to learn from your experience. It's my next major step. The main impediment for me now is the overloaded construction market in Dublin. But I'd love to do it.

air · 27-08-2019 11:48AM

You could just connect a second identical string of PV in parallel to an existing inverter within the overall 6kW limit with no risk to the ESB network peak export will still be capped by the inverter capacity. Use string diodes if the inverter doesn't include them.
You'll have peak output clipping of course but predominantly when you're likely to have more energy than you need anyway.

thos · 27-08-2019 11:54AM

Coltrane wrote: »

Sounds like lots of geeky-green fun!

If you're in a period house and managed to do something with the facade insulation, I'd be really interested to learn from your experience. It's my next major step. The main impediment for me now is the overloaded construction market in Dublin. But I'd love to do it.

Sorry, new timber frame build in 2014.

air wrote: »

You could just connect a second identical string of PV in parallel to an existing inverter within the overall 6kW limit with no risk to the ESB network peak export will still be capped by the inverter capacity. Use string diodes if the inverter doesn't include them.
You'll have peak output clipping of course but predominantly when you're likely to have more energy than you need anyway.

I've got 16 panels at present south-facing, which are split over both string inputs on the inverter.
I'd like to add some panels on my west-facing side. I'm thinking ~6 panels <2kw, as a boost in the afternoons/evenings where I need it most.
Can I daisy chain off the existing strings?

air · 27-08-2019 12:01PM

Would depend on the inverter, most likely you could put 8 on the West side and parallel those with one of the other inputs without issue. You should put a series diode in line with both the 8 South facing ones and the 8 new ones. Buy exactly the same model of panels for best performance.

thos · 27-08-2019 12:08PM

air wrote: »

Would depend on the inverter, most likely you could put 8 on the West side and parallel those with one of the other inputs without issue. You should put a series diode in line with both the 8 South facing ones and the 8 new ones. Buy exactly the same model of panels for best performance.

GivEnergy 5kw hybrid
https://www.lvprenewables.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/GivEnergy-Hybrid-Data-Sheet-1.pdf

Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

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