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Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

  • 04-08-2018 2:53pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭ wexfordman2


    Hi,

    Thinking this might be a worthwhile information point and reference.

    Good to get an idea of prices, and see if the recent grant is causing anomies etc.

    If anyone cares to post up quotes they got (but excluding the company/supplier to keep mods happy).


    We should show quote if system dimension, something along the lines of

    4kw solar with 5kw battery and diverter 9,900 ex vat
    5kw solar with 5kw battery and diverter 11,200 ex vat.

    Additional info
    This was for a "premium" solar panel with 30 year warranty.

    Provider is seai registered, so grant is apicable, and he claims HRI/vat refund available also, however I believe thats an error.

    Payment terms
    20% on order
    Additional 50% prior to install
    Remaining 30% post commissioning


    Quite for market standard panels as follows

    4kw with 5kw battery 8750 ex vat
    5kw with 5kw batter 9750 ex vat


«13456796

Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,303 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    8 panels (320w).
    2.56kw & 5kwh Storage
    System cost to customer €5,400 plus VAT as end cost to customer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 783 ✭✭✭ niallers1


    1.77 kw PV solar
    €3,545 includes VAT

    _____________________

    1.8kw PV solar
    €3980 Includes VAT - Existing customers with this well known company can avail of interest free credit with a 20% deposit

    1.8kw PV solar with diverter
    €4490 Includes VAT - Existing customers with this well known company can avail of interest free credit with a 20% deposit

    ________________________
    4kw PV with 5kwh storage for €9000 excluding VAT

    4.8 PV with 5kwh storage for €9500 excluding VAT

    8 x 320 Q Cell with 2.5 Kw Battery
    Also 3.6 kw Prime inverter
    Using 1 string you can add another 6/8 panels at a later date to a second string
    €6500 plus vat installed and commissioned
    6500 plus vat 877.50 =7377.50
    2560 grant =2560
    Balance €4817.50 includes VAT


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,907 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    kceire wrote: »
    3 kw & 5kw of Storage €8,500 with €3,100 grant
    8 panels 2.4 kw 5kwh Storage €7,500
    System cost to customer €5,400 have finance in place

    Can you confirm this includes VAT? I think someone else posted that the same company you are referring to has that quote plus VAT

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,303 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Original post updated.

    Plus VAT for clarity.
    Apologies I thought it was all in.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    This one has me confused as it looks too cheap.

    4 kw PV Array with 3.6kw Hybrid Inverter
    And 5KWh Battery €9000 +vat
    With EDDI €9500 +vat
    Both systems will attract €3800 grant

    Based on those prices I have done the following maths
    €9500 + 1215 = €10215 including VAT
    €10215 - 3800(grant) = €6,415
    €6415 - 1215(HRI scheme) = 5200

    Or am I doing my maths wrong?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 783 ✭✭✭ niallers1


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    This one has me confused as it looks too cheap.

    4 kw PV Array with 3.6kw Hybrid Inverter
    And 5KWh Battery €9000 +vat
    With EDDI €9500 +vat
    Both systems will attract €3800 grant

    Based on those prices I have done the following maths
    €9500 + 1215 = €10215 including VAT
    €10215 - 3800(grant) = €6,415
    €6415 - 1215(HRI scheme) = 5200

    Or am I doing my maths wrong?

    Sums are wrong as you will not be able to get anything from HRI scheme if you get the PV grant. That system will cost you €6415 (without diverter) .


  • Registered Users Posts: 783 ✭✭✭ niallers1


    Also, if you have battery do you really need the eddi? Just use power from solar/battery to heat immersion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    niallers1 wrote: »
    Also, if you have battery do you really need the eddi? Just use power from solar/battery to heat immersion.



    According to company that is what the EDDI is for, to divert the electricity to the water.


    niallers1 wrote: »
    Sums are wrong as you will not be able to get anything from HRI scheme if you get the PV grant. That system will cost you €6415


    I thought it was confirmed you could use the HRI as well to claim the VAT back?


  • Registered Users Posts: 783 ✭✭✭ niallers1


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    niallers1 wrote: »
    Also, if you have battery do you really need the eddi? Just use power from solar/battery to heat immersion.



    According to company that is what the EDDI is for, to divert the electricity to the water.


    niallers1 wrote: »
    Sums are wrong as you will not be able to get anything from HRI scheme if you get the PV grant. That system will cost you €6415


    I thought it was confirmed you could use the HRI as well to claim the VAT back?

    Solar will top up battery first and then hot water tank. When there is juice in the battery just flick the switch on the immersion to heat.
    Not sure you would get the benefit of having battery and water diverter. I'd go one or the other form of storage.

    If you get the solar grant you will have to reduce the HRI refund by three times the value of the solar grant. This means the HRI refund will be zero euro.

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/home-renovation-incentive/hri-for-homeowners-and-landlords/value-of-the-hri-tax-credit.aspx


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    niallers1 wrote: »
    Solar will top up battery first and then hot water tank. When there is juice in the battery just flick the switch on the immersion to heat.
    Not sure you would get the benefit of having battery and water diverter. I'd go one or the other form of storage.

    If you get the solar grant you will have to reduce the HRI refund by three times the value of the solar grant. This means the HRI refund will be zero euro.

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/property/home-renovation-incentive/hri-for-homeowners-and-landlords/value-of-the-hri-tax-credit.aspx

    Sorry I will other thread for questions, better to keep this ontrack for pricing only

    Good information on the HRI....a few people I know included the reduction in that

    Still 6500 is good for system


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  • Site Banned Posts: 725 Balanadan


    Out of interest, why are companies quoting ex. VAT prices to the public?


  • Registered Users Posts: 783 ✭✭✭ niallers1


    Balanadan wrote: »
    Out of interest, why are companies quoting ex. VAT prices to the public?

    It makes their prices sound cheaper.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 844 H.E. Pennypacker


    Company 1 (not SEAI listed, including diverter & vat)

    7 x 270w : €3,900
    6 x 300w : €4,100

    2.5 kWh battery €6k extra

    There's an additional charge for flashing/hooks instead of drilling.

    This company say that they'll be listed very soon and are taking deposits for work on that basis.

    Company 2 (SEAI listed):

    7 x 300w : €4,500 + vat
    battery approx €2k extra
    flashing/hooks only - no drilling

    Company 3 (SEAI listed)

    8 x 275w : €4.5k
    300w panels €35 extra per panel
    €450 additional for diverter
    Only flashing/hooks, no drilling

    Company 4 (not SEAI listed)

    7 x 290w: approx €3.5k - €5k

    drilling is the default approach. They are offering a FIT.

    Given that the SEAI listed companies that I've quotes from are coming in at €500 more that an offer by a certain large utility company, I'm giving serious consideration to going with their interest free offer of 6 x 300w panels and diverter for €4490 including vat less grant with 20% down and 36 months of payments.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    Balanadan wrote: »
    Out of interest, why are companies quoting ex. VAT prices to the public?


    They would have done that before the grant because it was given that you would use HRI to get VAT back......


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    Company 1 (not SEAI listed, including diverter & vat)



    drilling is the default approach. They are offering a FIT.

    Given that the SEAI listed companies that I've quotes from are coming in at €500 more that an offer by a certain large utility company, I'm giving serious consideration to going with their interest free offer of 6 x 300w panels and diverter for €4490 including vat less grant with 20% down and 36 months of payments.


    So the utility company is offering FiT?



    I guess to take them up on it you have to be with them?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 844 H.E. Pennypacker


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    So the utility company is offering FiT?

    I guess to take them up on it you have to be with them?


    Quentingargan posted on this on another thread (see post 106). I'm not sure of the finer details

    Edit: misread your post. The utility company offering 6 x 300w panels & diverter for €4495 isn't the one offering a FIT.


  • Registered Users Posts: 783 ✭✭✭ niallers1


    The large utility company offering PV solar was extortionate before the grant was announced and is now "almost" looking attractive .
    Something seriously wrong with that. It's like some of the installers believe the grant is supposed to be for them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 844 H.E. Pennypacker


    niallers1 wrote: »
    The large utility company offering PV solar was extortionate before the grant was announced and is now "almost" looking attractive .
    Something seriously wrong with that. It's like some of the installers believe the grant is supposed to be for them.


    Two companies that I got quotes from claimed to be subcontractors for the large utility company. I have a quote from one (pre grant) that's cheaper and one from the other company post grant that's dearer. I'd consider going with the cheaper company but by the time they add their surcharge for not drilling the tiles there's not much in it and I don't get the interest free credit aspect. Its entirely possible that they'd still end up doing the work as subcontractors......


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭ sharper


    I've noticed some try to charge monthly for the monitoring app (some utility companies amongst them). It's money for nothing.


  • Site Banned Posts: 725 Balanadan


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    They would have done that before the grant because it was given that you would use HRI to get VAT back......
    It's still quite misleading. At very least, quote both ex and inc VAT prices.

    Two companies that I got quotes from claimed to be subcontractors for the large utility company. I have a quote from one (pre grant) that's cheaper and one from the other company post grant that's dearer. I'd consider going with the cheaper company but by the time they add their surcharge for not drilling the tiles there's not much in it and I don't get the interest free credit aspect. Its entirely possible that they'd still end up doing the work as subcontractors......
    I'm disgusted by the notion that companies would drill the tiles, let alone charge more for not doing so! No roofer with any shred of integrity or professionalism would even consider this. They should be kicked off the SEAI list.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,162 ✭✭✭✭ Sleeper12


    Provider is seai registered, so grant is apicable, and he claims HRI/vat refund available also, however I believe thats an error.


    Vat is refunded under home imp scheme. You must spend over 5k & it's refunded in tax credits


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Provider is seai registered, so grant is apicable, and he claims HRI/vat refund available also, however I believe thats an error.


    Vat is refunded under home imp scheme. You must spend over 5k & it's refunded in tax credits

    Read above, this was already clarified and HRI will not be viable for most install


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,820 ✭✭✭ air


    The talk of drilling tiles here puts paid to the notion of the SEI seal of "approved installer" providing any guarantee of high quality installations to consumers.

    The SEI are adding no value here and as I have said elsewhere a FIT would have been a much more sensible use of public money.

    The UK went down the route of MCS accredited installers and a FIT but by the looks of it, their training, inspection and general standard of scheme management was far superior. Not surprising given their better building control mechanisms etc as well.


    Anyway other questions to ask suppliers - since the SEI will probably have not asked them:

    Does the installation includes panel earthing?

    Does the installation include AC and DC isolators?

    Does the installation include a generation meter?

    Does it include surge protection on the incoming DC cables - as required by EN62305?

    How many roof brackets will they install in total?

    What is my projected annual energy yield based on my location, shading, roof orientation and inclination with the quoted panels?

    What is the length of guarantee on the panels, inverter, roof installation, battery and diverter?

    Who is providing warranty coverage on each of the above?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭ wexfordman2


    air wrote: »
    The talk of drilling tiles here puts paid to the notion of the SEI seal of "approved installer" providing any guarantee of high quality installations to consumers.

    The SEI are adding no value here and as I have said elsewhere a FIT would have been a much more sensible use of public money.

    The UK went down the route of MCS accredited installers and a FIT but by the looks of it, their training, inspection and general standard of scheme management was far superior. Not surprising given their better building control mechanisms etc as well.


    Anyway other questions to ask suppliers - since the SEI will probably have not asked them:

    Does the installation includes panel earthing?

    Does the installation include AC and DC isolators?

    Does the installation include a generation meter?

    Does it include surge protection on the incoming DC cables - as required by EN62305?

    How many roof brackets will they install in total?

    What is my projected annual energy yield based on my location, shading, roof orientation and inclination with the quoted panels?

    What is the length of guarantee on the panels, inverter, roof installation, battery and diverter?

    Who is providing warranty coverage on each of the above?

    That should be a stickly, a FAQ for solar sellers


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,303 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Vat is refunded under home imp scheme. You must spend over 5k & it's refunded in tax credits

    Have you got a link to demonstrate this as anything linked to the HRI scheme states you cannot. Unless this Home Imp scheme is a different scheme????


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭ quentingargan


    air wrote: »
    Does the installation includes panel earthing?

    What is my projected annual energy yield based on my location, shading, roof orientation and inclination with the quoted panels?

    Panel earthing was not generally required by MCS in UK. It is currently required here by Safe Electric, but I have been told that this might be up for discussion. I would prefer not to have it if it is going to be connected to the domestic earth (and I am sure this will attract some questions here).

    If the power line is down, you are depending on the household earth rod to dissipate any lightning hit on the roof. Every earthed appliance in the house, including bath taps would have some potential during this time.

    If you want to earth the frames, it should be by an external wire down the outside of the house to an independent earth rod. I would never put a lightning conductor on my roof into the same earth as my house, be that a satellite dish or TV ariel or any other frame.

    The electronics in the panel are galvanically isolated from the frame. in addition there are MOVs in the inverter.

    I'm not an expert in this field and open to questioning. See attached.

    On potential yield from a system, that will depend on the KwP of the panels and the inverter efficiency. Outside that, you will have all sorts of spoofing. You can ask for this info, and get a simulation done, but that simulation would apply to all systems of the same spec.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,162 ✭✭✭✭ Sleeper12


    Shefwedfan wrote:
    Read above, this was already clarified and HRI will not be viable for most install


    But for some it will. Even if it doesn't it pushes your spend over a minimum 5k. So you can now claim for smaller things, for example a shower replacement or general small jobs carried out by a tradesman in the same year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    I don’t want to back seat mod but maybe if we keep this thread just to quote and the other threads for discussion around installation etc

    Just a suggestion.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 JJJJNR


    Fyi just to note there's a trade war happening in solar at the moment so price will fall dramatically over the next 12 to 18 months.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,162 ✭✭✭✭ Sleeper12


    JJJJNR wrote:
    Fyi just to note there's a trade war happening in solar at the moment so price will fall dramatically over the next 12 to 18 months.


    And yet prices are increasing? Prices are actually more likely to increase more as suppliers & installers take a piece of the grant.

    It's actually cheaper to use a sole trader that is not registered with SEI. You still pay vat & you get no grant yet in many cases its cheaper.

    The grant might work out cheaper for you but quite often its better value with no grants. I'm not talking cash jobs here.


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