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Rock on, Rockall! (it's back)

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    #452
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    British lads in the early 1800's managed to land there and declare it for Britain.

    Isnt this basically how they built their empire...land in a place and declare ownership with no regard to anyone else


    Kinda scummy way to carry on tbh


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    #453
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,936 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Isnt this basically how they built their empire...land in a place and declare ownership with no regard to anyone else


    Kinda scummy way to carry on tbh

    Yes, which was what I was getting at. There would be no fear of them doing it to someone with a bigger gun.

    Different ball game today.


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    #454
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Isnt this basically how they built their empire...land in a place and declare ownership with no regard to anyone else
    I think you will find that was the way of the world hundreds of years ago, all the other European countries were at it around the world too. Sometimes they took out leases with the locals if they did not buy them off. The lease on Hong Kong for example only expired in the late nineties as far as I remember, and the British gave Hong Kong back to China then. Hong Kong under British rule thrived and was much better off economically, politically, socially than the rest of China.


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    #455
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    Personally I hope this can be sorted out amicably as I believe Ireland and Britain should work together to safeguard their joint fishing grounds-if anyone should be told to stop fishing there it should be Denmark and Iceland.
    I'm also surprised Scotland are making such a fuss about this as they may need Ireland's backing over joining the EU in the event of independence-unless there's oil under rockall or something.

    But it cannot work like that once Britain leaves the EU. It just cannot. It's a single market. So it will be British fishermen against the rest. And if Britain, or rather England, decides that the solution will be to refuse non-British ships access to British waters, the EU can simply tariff British fish out of the EU market. Leaving Britain with loads and loads of fish, and therefore sharp drops in the price that British fishermen receive. If this doesn't bring British fishermen to their knees, you can bet EU fishermen will be given access to British waters by the Brexit-supporting government in exchange for access to some other market that the London financial market needs. The Brexit snakeoil salesmen going around to British fishing towns never mentioned this, though. Brexit is such a hideously populist conjob.


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    #456
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    janfebmar wrote: »
    I think you will find that was the way of the world hundreds of years ago, all the other European countries were at it around the world too. Sometimes they took out leases with the locals if they did not buy them off. The lease on Hong Kong for example only expired in the late nineties as far as I remember, and the British gave Hong Kong back to China then. Hong Kong under British rule thrived and was much better off economically, politically, socially than the rest of China.

    Meh....justify empire what way yous want.....they robbed the world....and their econmy has been in freefall since they run out of countriee to rob


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    #457
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Meh....justify empire what way yous want.....they robbed the world....and their econmy has been in freefall since they run out of countriee to rob

    At least they could spell. They did not rob Hong Kong. The people of Hong Kong were very grateful for everything the British brought them.


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    #458
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Deleted User wrote: »
    But it cannot work like that once Britain leaves the EU. It just cannot. It's a single market. So it will be British fishermen against the rest. And if Britain, or rather England, decides that the solution will be to refuse non-British ships access to British waters, the EU can simply tariff British fish out of the EU market. Leaving Britain with loads and loads of fish, and therefore sharp drops in the price that British fishermen receive. If this doesn't bring British fishermen to their knees, you can bet EU fishermen will be given access to British waters by the Brexit-supporting government in exchange for access to some other market that the London financial market needs. The Brexit snakeoil salesmen going around to British fishing towns never mentioned this, though. Brexit is such a hideously populist conjob.
    That's a ridiculously anti-English rant. The poor English are not even involved in this; the Rockall fishing area is within the Scot's jurisdiction.


    Of course the EU fishing fleet will be excluded from British waters after Brexit. Sure isn't that one of the main reasons they voted for it?
    Irish fisherman would love to boot the Spanish and French trawlers out of Irish waters, but they are allowed in as close as 6 miles by the EU rules.


    The EU tariffs Norwegian salmon, but they can still sell plenty of salmon into the EU market.

    From a fisherman's point of view, its better to catch a fish and pay a tariff when selling it, than to have someone else catch your fish, and you get nothing.


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    #459
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,936 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    I think you will find that was the way of the world hundreds of years ago, all the other European countries were at it around the world too. Sometimes they took out leases with the locals if they did not buy them off. The lease on Hong Kong for example only expired in the late nineties as far as I remember, and the British gave Hong Kong back to China then. Hong Kong under British rule thrived and was much better off economically, politically, socially than the rest of China.

    Like Ireland under British rule, some thrived in Hong Kong under British rule and some existed in abject poverty as their homeland was pillaged in pursuit of financial gain. The native inhabitants were also denied any say in who ran the colony, with the Crown appointing the government. Great place as long as you were on the right side and doffed the hat.


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    #460
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    janfebmar wrote: »
    At least they could spell. They did not rob Hong Kong. The people of Hong Kong were very grateful for everything the British brought them.

    Meh....its reparations they should be paying to likes of india


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    #461
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    The Taoiseach weighs in...
    Rockall is an uninhabited rock in the middle of the ocean.
    Good man Leo.


    Surprised he didn't advise the public to avoid eating fish, as a solution.
    Like his last intervention in rural Ireland.


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    #462
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    recedite wrote: »
    That's a ridiculously anti-English rant. The poor English are not even involved in this; the Rockall fishing area is within the Scot's jurisdiction.

    It's actually a statement of fact - the English, not the Scots, decided for Brexit. A majority of voters in Scotland voted to stay in the EU but they'll be leaving the EU because... a majority of English voters have decided so. Not much "taking back control" on the part of the Scots there. And this Rockall stuff is happening now because Brexit is imminent, so, yes, I'd say there is a very strong connection indeed.
    recedite wrote: »
    Irish fisherman would love to boot the Spanish and French trawlers out of Irish waters, but they are allowed in as close as 6 miles by the EU rules.

    Irish fisherman might indeed love that, but it was successive Irish governments from 1973 which sold them out in favour of helping the much larger agricultural sector here. That was the deal. It is Irish governments which are responsible for it, not the EU.

    recedite wrote: »
    Of course the EU fishing fleet will be excluded from British waters after Brexit. Sure isn't that one of the main reasons they voted for it?.... The EU tariffs Norwegian salmon, but they can still sell plenty of salmon into the EU market.

    From a fisherman's point of view, its better to catch a fish and pay a tariff when selling it, than to have someone else catch your fish, and you get nothing.

    Yes, they do sell it. However, you're omitting that in exchange Norway gives EU ships access to Norwegian waters. This leaves the Brexiteers back to where they were before Brexit. And, importantly, fishing is a much larger sector of the Norwegian economy than fishing is of the British economy. In other words, it is even more likely that fishing rights in British waters will be given to EU vessels, in return for satisfying the needs of more important sectors of the British economy.


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    #463
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    recedite wrote: »
    The Taoiseach weighs in...

    Good man Leo.


    Surprised he didn't advise the public to avoid eating fish, as a solution.
    Like his last intervention in rural Ireland.

    I'm fairly certain Varadkar will be sure to make the correct squeaky noises to whomever he wishes to virtue signal ....


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    #464
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    Deleted User wrote: »
    But it cannot work like that once Britain leaves the EU. It just cannot. It's a single market. So it will be British fishermen against the rest. And if Britain, or rather England, decides that the solution will be to refuse non-British ships access to British waters, the EU can simply tariff British fish out of the EU market. Leaving Britain with loads and loads of fish, and therefore sharp drops in the price that British fishermen receive. If this doesn't bring British fishermen to their knees, you can bet EU fishermen will be given access to British waters by the Brexit-supporting government in exchange for access to some other market that the London financial market needs. The Brexit snakeoil salesmen going around to British fishing towns never mentioned this, though. Brexit is such a hideously populist conjob.

    You say that but remember the "scallop war"when french trawlers attempted to chase Irish and British boats away in international waters?The EU did`nt get involved then.Also,Scotland was angry at the UK government anyway alleging the government was betraying them over fishing rights,the British have advised Scotland to calm down but they appear to be taking this tack off their own bat.


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    #465
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Like Ireland under British rule, some thrived in Hong Kong under British rule and some existed in abject poverty as their homeland was pillaged in pursuit of financial gain. The native inhabitants were also denied any say in who ran the colony, with the Crown appointing the government. Great place as long as you were on the right side and doffed the hat.

    You can huff and puff all you like about the awful British,if Scotland decide to make an issue of this what is anyone going to do?-It`s their jurisdiction i believe.


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    #466
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,947 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Brits have had Rockall for 200 years and its a desolate rock.
    In 1820s it was another eden.
    Brits are bad mkay.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #467
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Meh....its reparations they should be paying to likes of india
    Why don't all these dives they invaded just rip up all the infrastructure put in place by the British and start from scratch?

    They've allowed most of it to fall into shocking disrepair anyway. It's time to hit the reset button.


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    #468
    W1ll1s
    Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭W1ll1s


    Fockall this and fockall that.

    It's all about fockall. :(


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    #469
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,947 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    W1ll1s wrote: »
    Fockall this and fockall that.
    It's all about fockall. :(

    Exactly. We send our oldest ship to Rockall. When the Scots deploy their fleet to drive it off, we send the rest of our ships to take the Hebrides. They must have oil or whisky or sth.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #470
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,936 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    You can huff and puff all you like about the awful British,if Scotland decide to make an issue of this what is anyone going to do?-It`s their jurisdiction i believe.

    Telling the truth about what the British did, good and bad is not huffing and puffing Rob. Onesided versions as Jan's always are, is huffing and puffing though.

    If you think the Scots are going to board Irish vessels I think you may have been puffing on the waccy tobacco. It is an election driven stunt.


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    #471
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,876 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Coveny did not rise to the bait. That's what we need, a sensible diplomatic bod.

    No gra for FG, but I wonder what the response would be if FF were in power? I note they are very quiet about this also.


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    #472
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Telling the truth about what the British did, good and bad is not huffing and puffing Rob. Onesided versions as Jan's always are, is huffing and puffing though.

    If you think the Scots are going to board Irish vessels I think you may have been puffing on the waccy tobacco. It is an election driven stunt.

    I hope they don`t but I also think they will fight for what they think is theirs and they can stick up for themselves,as the English found out on numerous occasions.
    As for me puffing waccy baccy,I reckon it`s you whose been on the ganga or glenmorangie!:D


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    #473
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,936 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    I hope they don`t but I also think they will fight for what they think is theirs and they can stick up for themselves,as the English found out on numerous occasions.
    As for me puffing waccy baccy,I reckon it`s you whose been on the ganga or glenmorangie!:D

    Rob, it was an election stunt. SNP want the fishing vote and they are siding with the Tories atm.

    There isn't a hope in hell they will escalate this. Any international court will find that nobody has sovereignty of it.
    We'll be fishing there long after Boaty McBoatface has rusted away to it's anchors.


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    #474
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    Deleted User wrote: »
    RTÉ News: Scottish minister warns Irish vessels fishing around Rockall could be boarded

    The Irish Times: 'Scotland risks antagonising Brussels with Rockall row -Irish Government is right to respond calmly but firmly to Scotland’s unexpected ultimatum'

    Facing mounting international pressure, Scotland has decided to send one of its ships, the HMS Cromwell, to Rockall to extirpate the Irish from the area. Expect a pitstop in Drogheda along the way.

    large_000000.jpg
    Lets hope the USS Winston Churchill does`nt sail past or Francie will go into meltdown!:pac:


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    #475
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,936 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    Lets hope the USS Winston Churchill does`nt sail past or Francie will go into meltdown!:pac:

    Winston is a bit rusty himself Rob. That era is over, youse guys have been schooled in how to behave.


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    #476
    droidman123
    Registered Users Posts: 5,409 ✭✭✭droidman123


    Unless the scottish vote for independence,they have no jurisdiction over anything.they are puppets,just like wales,to westminster


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    #477
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    Someone should blow up the rock.


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    #478
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    droidman123 wrote: »
    Unless the scottish vote for independence,they have no jurisdiction over anything.they are puppets,just like wales,to westminster

    It is the UK which has jurisdiction, I believe. Another example of "stronger together". The plaque on Rockall says " By authority of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of her other realms and territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, and in accordance with Her Majesty's instructions dated the 14th day of September, 1955, a landing was effected this day upon this island of Rockall from HMS Vidal. The Union flag was hoisted and possession of the island was taken in the name of Her Majesty. [Signed] R H Connell, Captain, HMS Vidal, 18 September 1955.


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    #479
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    If you think the Scots are going to board Irish vessels I think you may have been puffing on the waccy tobacco. It is an election driven stunt.
    That would be a foolish assumption.
    What election BTW? Their next parliamentary election is not due until 2021.


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    #480
    droidman123
    Registered Users Posts: 5,409 ✭✭✭droidman123


    janfebmar wrote: »
    It is the UK which has jurisdiction, I believe. Another example of "stronger together". The plaque on Rockall says " By authority of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of her other realms and territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, and in accordance with Her Majesty's instructions dated the 14th day of September, 1955, a landing was effected this day upon this island of Rockall from HMS Vidal. The Union flag was hoisted and possession of the island was taken in the name of Her Majesty. [Signed] R H Connell, Captain, HMS Vidal, 18 September 1955.

    Grand,so i,ll stick a plague on a big mansion in dalkey and that means it will be mine,happy days


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    #481
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    droidman123 wrote: »
    Grand,so i,ll stick a plague on a big mansion in dalkey and that means it will be mine,happy days
    Only if it was yours to begin with and on your property since 1810. Rockall is closer to Scotland than to Ireland or Iceland. Every other piece of land at that latitude in the world belongs to some country. It is land.


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