Gun attack at Christmas market, Strasbourg.

pjohnson · 12-12-2018 10:25am

Omackeral wrote: »

As is often the case in these attacks. 2nd and 3rd generation scumbuckets causing havoc. People saying "send them back" are at nothing because they're from the countries that they're attacking in a lot of instances. However, pretending that they're dyed-in-the-wool proud Frenchmen is also burying your head in the sand. There's a theme with these atrocities more often than not but don't you dare say what it is...

Ah now its not like its rape. Fire away.

yoke · 12-12-2018 10:25am

weldoninhio wrote: »

They were never "interned".

They were framed, and false evidence and forced confessions used to arrest and try them. Not sure you know what internment is.

Edit: Also, republicans had an end goal. Something that's needed in a negotiation. These jihadi's end goal is the destruction of the infidel west.

Do you know what internment is?

internment:
the state of being confined as a prisoner, especially for political or military reasons.

Republicans had an end goal which was unacceptable to the British people.
The British looked at why young northern Irish people were becoming republicans, and addressed the source of the problem (admittedly, the process isn’t complete and Northern Ireland is still not great regarding sectarianism, but better than it was).

Maybe we should be looking at what is fueling the rise of young people of foreign descent in countries like France and Germany and Sweden in taking up radical Islam or similar stupid ideologies which actually mirror the ideologies of who they hate (hint: all 3 countries have major problems with racism)

Omackeral · 12-12-2018 10:28am

Grayson wrote: »

To be fair everyone thinks what they're saying is sensible, unless they're a troll.

Go back through my posts if you wish. I try to be balanced. I don't say "deport them all" or "ban religion" or "all Muslims".

And you're saying that if someone disagrees with you they're terroristy?

Nope, I'm saying that about other people on here who seem very intolerant to any views that dissent from their outlook. They seek to shut down debate and discourse by shouting others down. Maybe fascist is a better descriptor. There's an irony to it.

Omackeral · 12-12-2018 10:29am

granturismo wrote: »

I wasnt burying my head in the sand, nor trying to differentiate between the birthplace of a murderer in order to rationalise their motivation. I was simply pointing out an error in a post which seemed to suggest that the shooter was a recent arrival in Europe.

Wasn't directed at you personally granturismo.

Omackeral · 12-12-2018 10:31am

Grayson wrote: »

. It's just the idea that because some terrorists are muslim it means that all muslims are the problem.

I've no qualms about saying this. Anyone who thinks the above is an absolute dumb fcuk.

begbysback · 12-12-2018 10:36am

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

more marxist pscyho babble

the people who are afraid are in Strasbourg

Marxist lol - way off the mark chief, I just have a profound dislike for scaremongering, whether that be amongst Muslims or Christians - it leads to the same outcome

I’m sure the bereaved in Strasbourg will be comforted by your personal campaign

CrankyHaus · 12-12-2018 10:38am

FTA69 wrote: »

Well that argument works both ways, that when we had Yugoslavia people got on relatively grand and it was the collapse of the Eastern Bloc and the introduction of competing nationalisms that f*cked everything up. I mean it's not a perfect example by any means at all, but Balkan Muslims were a good example of how it can and should be done. I was in Albania and Montenegro in November and for the first time now in Tirana you see women walking around in niqabs etc, all directly related to radical mosques and madrasahs funded by Erdogan's Turkey. I spoke with Montenegrin Muslims who are deeply suspicious of Wahabbists now coming in and telling them they need to be wary of neighbours they've lived amongst for 500 years.

As for religious freedoms. Lots of countries have a secular education system and no faith schools, it's in no way a breach of someone's human rights to have state schooling. Religious freedom doesn't automatically extend to being able to bring off a load of kids and fill their heads with whatever you like.

The same foreign funded radicalisation of Muslims happened in Chechnya in the 90s and really has been happening across the muslim world for decades. The funding for it tends to come from UK allies like Saudi, the Gulf States and Pakistan, and now NATO bulwark Turkey as well.

Yugoslavia is a poor advertisement for multiculturalism if a dictator and an apparatus of repression were required to keep ethnic strife under wraps.

In Ireland we have state provision for seperate religious schools both because of the Catholic Church wanting to control education and a need to not alienate the Protestant minority after independence (i think there is a constitutional basis for this, I can't remember). This puts us in a bad position to integrate immigrants of different religions in state secular schools, particularly Muslims, even though i agree it is the best policy.

With regards to what people are saying about internment. It is a reasonable tactic, if used sparingly and proportionately. We used it successfully in ROI in WW2 because we remembered this. The British became the IRA's recruiting sergeant in NI in the 1970s because they forgot it and simply kidnapped and tortured large numbers of young catholic men based on lists provided by the loyalist authorities.

RandomName2 · 12-12-2018 10:40am

seamus wrote: »

Right. Poverty, discrimination, isolation and poor education.

The same reason why virtually every terrorist everywhere, including IRA members, comes from a background of being dirt poor, treated like **** by the authorities (and often society), and finding no kinship in anything except violence.

Really? That sounds more like a misconception than anything

https://jia.sipa.columbia.edu/online-articles/reexamining-terrorism-poverty-nexus
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9343/terrorism-poverty-despair
https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-consent/?destination=%2fnews%2fwonk%2fwp%2f2015%2f11%2f18%2fwhy-less-poverty-and-more-schools-wouldnt-cut-down-on-terrorism%2f%3f&utm_term=.307b25e61ff5
https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2010/12/16/exploding-misconceptions

ArchXStanton · 12-12-2018 10:42am

They were quick to shut up the EU buildings during this incident... Can't have the stuffed shirts and their disastrous policies in harms way..

Danzy · 12-12-2018 10:44am

Mainstream mosques across Europe preach views that would make ones blood curl, host speakers that call for violence, wife beating, gay bashing, targeting Jews.

Some people pretend the main Mosques are fine and it is all down to back street mosques in a house.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 12-12-2018 10:44am

"yoke wrote: »

Maybe we should be looking at what is fueling the rise of young people of foreign descent in countries like France and Germany and Sweden in taking up radical Islam or similar stupid ideologies which actually mirror the ideologies of who they hate (hint: all 3 countries have major problems with racism)

That’s victim blaming. It also doesn’t really explain why it’s one particular group (generally radicalised Muslims) rather than Hindus, Chinese, Eastern Europeans, Africans, South Americans, even (in general) Turks in Germany that end up being responsible for these attacks. Nor are all the attackers poor.

If western society is, however, so racist as to incite violence from immigrants from certain areas then maybe some levels of immigration control are necessary.

topper75 · 12-12-2018 10:46am

seamus wrote: »

Right. Poverty, discrimination, isolation and poor education.

The same reason why virtually every terrorist everywhere, including IRA members, comes from a background of being dirt poor, treated like **** by the authorities (and often society), and finding no kinship in anything except violence.

Lord you know a lot about this chap on the run. Thought about calling the French police?

Did he have someone put out the arm on him when he tried to go to school.

How was he isolated? How was he discriminated against? Many are poor in France - this scumbag doesn't represent poverty. How were people shopping in a Christmas market responsible for his poverty if indeed he was poor?

You can't claim discrimination when in fact many of his type are actively refusing to integrate into western society yet insisting on living in the west. The discrimination is all theirs. That blood on the road is all spilled by them - directly by them. Obfuscation is helping nobody.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 12-12-2018 10:49am

RandomName2 wrote: »

Really? That sounds more like a misconception than anything

https://jia.sipa.columbia.edu/online-articles/reexamining-terrorism-poverty-nexus
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/9343/terrorism-poverty-despair
https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-consent/?destination=%2fnews%2fwonk%2fwp%2f2015%2f11%2f18%2fwhy-less-poverty-and-more-schools-wouldnt-cut-down-on-terrorism%2f%3f&utm_term=.307b25e61ff5
https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2010/12/16/exploding-misconceptions

It’s obviously not even true of the IRA, who had a considerable following amongst the farmer and self employed classes. However they tended to be more working class than the vast majority of leftist radicals. As for Islamic radicals, often middle class or rich, particularly if they are from outside Europe - the 9/11 guys were all fairly privileged.

As for poverty on its own causing terrorism, I don’t see that being used to justify white terrorism, many of whom are indeed poor.

seamus · 12-12-2018 10:49am

Omackeral wrote: »

It's all our fault isn't it.

Nobody said that.

Just because someone else is isolated, doesn't make it your fault. People are sh1t, that's the universal rule. But if we make an effort to make people less sh1t, then everyone benefits.

Ah, I see the IRA comparisons are starting now too. Expected those earlier.

It's completely relevant though. From the perspective of most outside of Ireland, the IRA were just violent Catholic zealots.
Your response to that is, "It's way more complicated than that!". And you're right. It's always more complicated than that. Just like this is.

We can wander around all day shouting about how violent Islam is - because it is, but then so are all of the Abrahamic religions. But unless you're going to talk about interning/banning/deporting all Muslims, even those who are no risk, than the point is moot.

People turn to ideologies which most fit their worldview. They don't change their worldview to fit the ideology. Violent people turn to violent religious extremism. Airy-fairy people turn to homeopathy and other bullsh1t science.

Islam is not the problem. If it wasn't Islam, it would be something else. Should we pretend that Mosques and other Islamic centres aren't rife with this at the moment? Of course not, because they are. They are a magnet for angry young men, and people who seek to exploit them.

Should we be targetting Islam as a whole and seeking to exterminate it or regulate it? Well, no. Because that makes the problem worse. There is nothing quite so dangerous as an animal that's cornered. We've learned the lesson many many times that when you try to suppress a religion, its followers become violent and angry. You can, however, moderate it out of existence by improving living conditions.

And even if you did exterminate Islam, some other nutjob religious practice would take its place to serve as an ideology for angry and violent people.

weldoninhio · 12-12-2018 10:51am

yoke wrote: »

Do you know what internment is?

internment:
the state of being confined as a prisoner, especially for political or military reasons.

Republicans had an end goal which was unacceptable to the British people.
The British looked at why young northern Irish people were becoming republicans, and addressed the source of the problem (admittedly, the process isn’t complete and Northern Ireland is still not great regarding sectarianism, but better than it was).

Maybe we should be looking at what is fueling the rise of young people of foreign descent in countries like France and Germany and Sweden in taking up radical Islam or similar stupid ideologies which actually mirror the ideologies of who they hate (hint: all 3 countries have major problems with racism)

Operation Demetrius was a British Army operation in Northern Ireland on 9–10 August 1971, during the Troubles. It involved the mass arrest and internment (imprisonment without trial) of 342 people suspected of being involved with the Irish Republican Army (IRA), which was waging a campaign for a united Ireland against the British state.

The Guilford 4 and the Maguire 7 had a very public trial.

12-12-2018 10:51am

As someone posted before in another thread, if you look at the North of England Hindus are economically successful and well-integrated. They started arriving en-masse around the same time as other people from around India. Why have they integrated so much better? Did English people in the 70s really know or care much about the difference between Hidus and Muslims, or enough to treat one group badly and by implication another group really well?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 12-12-2018 10:52am

CrankyHaus wrote: »

The same foreign funded radicalisation of Muslims happened in Chechnya in the 90s and really has been happening across the muslim world for decades. The funding for it tends to come from UK allies like Saudi, the Gulf States and Pakistan, and now NATO bulwark Turkey as well.

This is closer to the truth. Our allies the US have a lot to answer for.

FTA69 · 12-12-2018 10:53am

CrankyHaus wrote: »

The same foreign funded radicalisation of Muslims happened in Chechnya in the 90s and really has been happening across the muslim world for decades. The funding for it tends to come from UK allies like Saudi, the Gulf States and Pakistan, and now NATO bulwark Turkey as well.

Yugoslavia is a poor advertisement for multiculturalism if a dictator and an apparatus of repression were required to keep ethnic strife under wraps.

In Ireland we have state provision for seperate religious schools both because of the Catholic Church wanting to control education and a need to not alienate the Protestant minority after independence (i think there is a constitutional basis for this, I can't remember). This puts us in a bad position to integrate immigrants of different religions in state secular schools, particularly Muslims, even though i agree it is the best policy.
.

Ah Tito was sound as a pound. In all seriousness though people I met, young and old, had a good fondness for him. As I said, it’s not the world’s best example, what I’m trying to get across is that “multiculturalism” is grand when it’s as a part of a wider civic identity and that people should be encouraged to integrate and work for the common good.

12-12-2018 10:54am

seamus wrote: »

It's completely relevant though. From the perspective of most outside of Ireland, the IRA were just violent Catholic zealots.

Difference being that the stated aims and motivations of Islamic terrorists come from Islam and hatred of Kafir. So perception =/= reality.

Your response to that is, "It's way more complicated than that!". And you're right. It's always more complicated than that. Just like this is.

Yet all of it has one thing in common. So why should we continue to accept it. Allowing more in, allowing more money in, allowing hate speech with some hand-wringing, dismissing valid concerns (and those proved true) is accepting it.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 12-12-2018 10:57am

FTA69 wrote: »

Ah Tito was sound as a pound. In all seriousness though people I met, young and old, had a good fondness for him. As I said, it’s not the world’s best example, what I’m trying to get across is that “multiculturalism” is grand when it’s as a part of a wider civic identity and that people should be encouraged to integrate and work for the common good.

There were a lot worse communist dictators than Tito, I’ll give him that. It’s not a great list to top, the standards are low, but to the best of my knowledge he definitely tops it.

seamus · 12-12-2018 10:57am

Deleted User wrote: »

Difference being that the stated aims and motivations of Islamic terrorists come from Islam and hatred of Kafir. So perception =/= reality.

Yet all of it has one thing in common. So why should we continue to accept it. Allowing more in, allowing more money in, allowing hate speech with some hand-wringing, dismissing valid concerns (and those proved true) is accepting it.

So what's your answer?

Danzy · 12-12-2018 10:58am

Pretending it is all down to Racism is just the narcissism of so many activists, French society is bad, Europeans are at fault etc etc.

No one can have personal agency but react only to European wrongs.

Less and less people are buying it, especially in Working Class areas.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 12-12-2018 10:59am

Deleted User wrote: »

As someone posted before in another thread, if you look at the North of England Hindus are economically successful and well-integrated. They started arriving en-masse around the same time as other people from around India. Why have they integrated so much better? Did English people in the 70s really know or care much about the difference between Hidus and Muslims, or enough to treat one group badly and by implication another group really well?

Hindus don't view Christians and Jews as trash who need to be conquered.

12-12-2018 11:00am

seamus wrote: »

So what's your answer?

Why do you want an answer to something you claim doesn't exist?

Danzy · 12-12-2018 11:01am

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Hindus don't view Christians and Jews as trash.

Nor do they listen to calls to violence, hatred, supremacy, every week at Worship

FTA69 · 12-12-2018 11:01am

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Hindus don't view Christians and Jews as trash who need to be conquered.

A lot of them do actually. You’re off your rocker if you think there aren’t extremist or chauvinistic Hindus.

Most Muslims don’t think people of other religions are evil either for that matter.

seamus · 12-12-2018 11:04am

Deleted User wrote: »

Why do you want an answer to something you claim doesn't exist?

I have no idea where you got that from.

But nevertheless, clearly you have ideas in your head of what the problem is and how to address it. Care to proffer something of substance?

Danzy · 12-12-2018 11:06am

FTA69 wrote: »

A lot of them do actually. You’re off your rocker if you think there aren’t extremist or chauvinistic Hindus.

Most Muslims don’t think people of other religions are evil either for that matter.

No most Muslims are not extremist but a very large % hold varying levels of extremist views.

That can range from 28% supporting the killing of those insult the Prophet to near unanimity for criminalizing Gays.

Levels vary across time and place but it never is insignificant.

FTA69 · 12-12-2018 11:07am

Definitely is a lot of worrying and illiberal attitudes amongst many Muslims and an increased hardening in orthodoxy and observance but the idea that Islam inherently intends to subjugate Christianity etc or that Muslims go around hating their neighbours is untrue for the most part.

antietam1 · 12-12-2018 11:10am

nthclare wrote: »

It's definitely the wahabbism Sunni Saudi sect who are involved in radicalisation.

You don't hear of the average Sunnis Shias Suffis or Allawites behaving like the wahabbism shower.

Most Sunnis just want to get on in life too, but that wahabbism is down right nuts.

It takes a lot of reading and research about Islam to realise it's history, the division between the Shias and Sunnis

How the Christian crusaders were responsible for a lot of violence and upheaval too...

It's a broad subject...

The last Christian crusades did more damage to Christian countries Looted the Byzantine empire and practically destroyed Constantinople.
Anyway they started it in Spain.
What was the last one King Phillip of France in Egypt?

topper75 · 12-12-2018 11:13am

I don't know if we can go on pretending that they are just another group. The examination is fair and warranted.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 12-12-2018 11:17am

Danzy wrote: »

Nor do they listen to calls to violence, hatred, supremacy, every week at Worship

You guys are far too extreme the other way. I’ve talked to plenty of observant Muslims who are tolerant of all faiths (and I do ask).

However there are radical mosques out there. Funded by our friends, the Saudis.

US foreign policy doesn’t help either and it’s fairly clear that the increase in radicalism goes hand in hand with actions in the Middle East. I’m not saying that the US is getting a reaction from the bombing of Syria or attacks on Assad - muslim radicals want Assad gone, whet I am saying is that US foreign policy uses Islamic radicalism where it needs to overthrow anti American secular dictatorships, and the blowback is in Europe.

ArchXStanton · 12-12-2018 11:17am

Looks like the shinners had to flee too... Makes a change from the bloodshed their comrades caused

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/strasbourg-shooting-christmas-market-france-13721906.amp

Danzy · 12-12-2018 11:21am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You guys are far too extreme the other way. I’ve talked to plenty of observant Muslims who are tolerant of all faiths (and I do ask).

However there are radical mosques out there. Funded by our friends, the Saudis.

US foreign policy doesn’t help either and it’s fairly clear that the increase in radicalism goes hand in hand with actions in the Middle East. I’m not saying that the US is getting a reaction from the bombing of Syria or attacks on Assad - muslim radicals want Assad gone, whet I am saying is that US foreign policy uses Islamic radicalism where it needs to overthrow anti American secular dictatorships, and the blowback is in Europe.

The problem begins in mainstream mosques, I include Clonskeagh in that.

US foreign policy does not help but it is a bigger issue for non Muslims than Jihadis.

The head of Clonskeaghs parent fatwa council calls for Gays to be thrown off buildings, wife beating, suicide bombings against civilians and on and on.

He is probably the most influential Cleric in the Sunni world.

yoke · 12-12-2018 11:34am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That’s victim blaming. It also doesn’t really explain why it’s one particular group (generally radicalised Muslims) rather than Hindus, Chinese, Eastern Europeans, Africans, South Americans, even (in general) Turks in Germany that end up being responsible for these attacks. Nor are all the attackers poor.

If western society is, however, so racist as to incite violence from immigrants from certain areas then maybe some levels of immigration control are necessary.

So I actually knew a Chinese guy who had become so unconsciously radicalised by racism he experienced here in Dublin that he was an absolute nutjob when dealing with white people in general, he wasn’t a terrorist but I can fully imagine if he ever went back to any position of power in China, he’d probably start a war or something.

I also know of a Hindu guy who went to Australia for a few months, he hated it there due to the racism he experienced and went back to India. He’s now a mayor of a small town there (small town of probably only 1 million people or something), he’s gone extremely right wing from what little i’ve seen and I wonder why.

So some percentage of the Hindus and the Chinese do also get radicalised, it’s just that they don’t need to join terrorist groups, a lot of them end up going back to India/China and spreading hatred and distrust over there.

This is exactly what starts wars, xenophobia started the last world war and i’m afraid we haven’t learned a thing. The EU was a good attempt to be inclusive and stop war, unfortunately the current populations haven’t educated themselves on how bad war is and that creating a “them and us” situation always leads to war in the long term

Sonics2k · 12-12-2018 11:40am

Here's what really get's me about this whole thing.

So, so often in the cases of these shootings the culprit is known to the police. Far too often they don't make a move on the person as they're hoping to get the ringleaders or higher up members of these terrorist organisations.

These killings could have been stopped had the authorities taken action sooner and locked this guy up.

It's also very wrong to say "send him back where he came from", because extremely often we find out the person happens to be born and raised in the area and is not a migrant. They are often the children of happily settled migrants who have never, and would never, commit these kinds of atrocities.

I have no issue with migrants or refugees who come here to work, but honestly I say string up the terrorists and to hell with their rights.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 12-12-2018 11:41am

yoke wrote: »

So I actually knew a Chinese guy who had become so unconsciously radicalised by racism he experienced here in Dublin that he was an absolute nutjob when dealing with white people in general, he wasn’t a terrorist but I can fully imagine if he ever went back to any position of power in China, he’d probably start a war or something.

I also know of a Hindu guy who went to Australia for a few months, he hated it there due to the racism he experienced and went back to India. He’s now a mayor of a small town there (small town of probably only 1 million people or something), he’s gone extremely right wing from what little i’ve seen and I wonder why.

These stories seem somewhat suspect, my oh is brown and doesn't think we are racist but it's a leafy suburb and she doesn't really take public transport etc.

I am not PC but this kind of thing does need dealing with.

yoke · 12-12-2018 11:47am

Danzy wrote: »

The problem begins in mainstream mosques, I include Clonskeagh in that.

US foreign policy does not help but it is a bigger issue for non Muslims than Jihadis.

The head of Clonskeaghs parent fatwa council calls for Gays to be thrown off buildings, wife beating, suicide bombings against civilians and on and on.

He is probably the most influential Cleric in the Sunni world.

What drives people to join these idiots though?
I do agree that religious schools like this should be shut down, the same way that we shut down organisations that openly advocate racism or spread hatred etc. I don’t see any difference here.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 12-12-2018 11:49am

yoke wrote: »

Do you know what internment is?

internment:
the state of being confined as a prisoner, especially for political or military reasons.

Republicans had an end goal which was unacceptable to the British people.
The British looked at why young northern Irish people were becoming republicans, and addressed the source of the problem (admittedly, the process isn’t complete and Northern Ireland is still not great regarding sectarianism, but better than it was).

Maybe we should be looking at what is fueling the rise of young people of foreign descent in countries like France and Germany and Sweden in taking up radical Islam or similar stupid ideologies which actually mirror the ideologies of who they hate (hint: all 3 countries have major problems with racism)

No they ****ing don't. Total and complete bollocks.
And even if they did, you don't see young black non-Muslims going on shooting/stabbing rampages.

TomSweeney · 12-12-2018 11:52am

My brother is a lefty lunatic, and his response to these attacks is always the same.

But look how much people pollution kills every year !

Way more than terrorism - he's right points negated completely :mad:

Danzy · 12-12-2018 11:52am

Sonics2k wrote: »

Here's what really get's me about this whole thing.

So, so often in the cases of these shootings the culprit is known to the police. Far too often they don't make a move on the person as they're hoping to get the ringleaders or higher up members of these terrorist organisations.

These killings could have been stopped had the authorities taken action sooner and locked this guy up.

It's also very wrong to say "send him back where he came from", because extremely often we find out the person happens to be born and raised in the area and is not a migrant. They are often the children of happily settled migrants who have never, and would never, commit these kinds of atrocities.

I have no issue with migrants or refugees who come here to work, but honestly I say string up the terrorists and to hell with their rights.

There are so many people who are credible risks they can't monitor them all.

Have the army, 600k men, all thebpokice just monitor high risk people, it will not come close to cover all of them.

A British police force commander asked about the 20k high risk fanatics in Britain, replied he had that many alone in his own City. Think he was Birmingham.

weldoninhio · 12-12-2018 11:56am

Danzy wrote: »

There are so many people who are credible risks they can't monitor them all.

Have the army, 600k men, all thebpokice just monitor high risk people, it will not come close to cover all of them.

A British police force commander asked about the 20k high risk fanatics in Britain, replied he had that many alone in his own City. Think he was Birmingham.

Easily monitored if you round them all into an internment camp.

yoke · 12-12-2018 11:57am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

These stories seem somewhat suspect, my oh is brown and doesn't think we are racist but it's a leafy suburb and she doesn't really take public transport etc.

I am not PC but this kind of thing does need dealing with.

Stories seem suspect? So you don’t believe that some of the Hindus or Chinese people who experience racism/hatred in the west would get radicalised, go back to India/China and spread racism/hatred there against the west?

Send me a PM if you are serious and you really don’t believe me

RandomName2 · 12-12-2018 11:58am

seamus wrote: »

So what's your answer?

Nation states, particularly western democracies, don't work well with large minorities (I really mean a small number of large minorities, rather than a large number of small minorities). The whole reason for separate states existing is because people view themselves as belonging to inherently separate groups.

The only solution is to not have those large minorities emerge in the first place, or if they do exist, try and erode the barriers that make them minorities. If religion is a common division, promote secularism; if class is a common division, promote social inclusion.

Danzy · 12-12-2018 11:59am

weldoninhio wrote: »

Easily monitored if you round them all into an internment camp.

Hundreds of thousands in a camp, it would be a small city, locked up for life and a continuing influx every day.

I'm not saying it is not an option. It may be an inevitably.

yoke · 12-12-2018 12:01pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Easily monitored if you round them all into an internment camp.

Hahaha

a2634d816691c9babeb73adde3673944--comment-pics-funny-pics.jpg

weldoninhio · 12-12-2018 12:03pm

Danzy wrote: »

Hundreds of thousands in a camp, it would be a small city, locked up for life and a continuing influx every day.

I'm not saying it is not an option. It may be an inevitably.

Wouldn't have to be the one camp. One camp outside every major city. Zero tolerance policy within the camps. You don't follow the rules, solitary for a week.

Danzy · 12-12-2018 12:04pm

yoke wrote: »

What drives people to join these idiots though?
I do agree that religious schools like this should be shut down, the same way that we shut down organisations that openly advocate racism or spread hatred etc. I don’t see any difference here.

The religious obligation to jihad. The culture of What we view as extremist thinking that is mainstream in Mosques and at the heart of the religion.

Like a Christian group feeding the homeless because that is what Jesus wants, yet are small in number. This man is fulfilling the demands of Mohammed.

Few hardcore believers in both cases.

mikhail · 12-12-2018 12:04pm

Sonics2k wrote: »

Here's what really get's me about this whole thing.

So, so often in the cases of these shootings the culprit is known to the police. Far too often they don't make a move on the person as they're hoping to get the ringleaders or higher up members of these terrorist organisations.

(a) They often don't have anything to actually charge them with, so they'll wind up letting them go a day later. This is how you get lawyers arguing in court that their client has been victimised - repeatedly arrested over nothing.

(b) They watch loads of people who don't really do anything. Empowering them to arrest them anyway is how you wind up with a police state. Considering some of the ****e the guards have gotten up to here without those powers, I'm not keen on giving them more.

(c) If they don't wait and patiently watch who these people are dealing with they'll never find out about half of them. Why do you think they were watching him in the first place? Probably because he was in contact with some other suspicious people.

(d) They frequently do arrest once they have enough information and they've incriminated themselves. It's just that their failures are far more visible than their successes.

Danzy · 12-12-2018 12:07pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Wouldn't have to be the one camp. One camp outside every major city. Zero tolerance policy within the camps. You don't follow the rules, solitary for a week.

Deportations to a French colony in the Indian ocean.

Balkanization will be the outcome most likely and continued escalation.

One big attack and you could see the French working class become militant.

Gun attack at Christmas market, Strasbourg.

Comments