Gun attack at Christmas market, Strasbourg.

begbysback

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

Rte and newstalk doing their best to disguise his identity/religion

they must think were thick

Maybe they believe it will just assist politically charged posters on boards?

emptyhouse2222

begbysback wrote: »

Maybe they believe it will just assist politically charged posters on boards?

Say out loud
OR OR OR OR OR like a good sealion

begbysback

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

Say out loud
OR OR OR OR OR like a good sealion

So you’ve added one word to your vocabulary today which will be used to fuel your hatred, a successful day in the life of emptyhouse no doubt, hope you find contentment before it chews you up - happy Xmas

pjohnson

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

Rte and newstalk doing their best to disguise his identity/religion

they must think were thick

Well I mean there was certain "smart" posters like yourself who started blaming muslims for that incident in essex quay dublin a few days ago so if the cap fits.

emptyhouse2222

begbysback wrote: »

So you’ve added one word to your vocabulary today which will be used to fuel your hatred, a successful day in the life of emptyhouse no doubt, hope you find contentment before it chews you up - happy Xmas

who do i hate

emptyhouse2222

pjohnson wrote: »

Well I mean there was certain "smart" posters like yourself who started blaming muslims for that incident in essex quay dublin a few days ago so if the cap fits.

tell your psychobabble to the parents in france who afraid to send their kids to school today

Franz Von Peppercorn

vicwatson wrote: »

Is sealioning another made up word by some sap? Never heard it till this thread must have been born too early in the 1990’s

Seems to be a mechanism to shut down debate.

That picture was fairly meaningless to me too, though.

languagenerd

emptyhouse2222: you can't throw out tons of random photos and statements with no context and claim people are 'sealioning' when they ask you what they mean. The photo of Macron, while ill-advised from a PR stance, is from a trip to meet survivors of Hurricane Irma in the Carribbean two months ago. Your other photo last night (of armed police smiling) was taken in Birmingham two years ago. What do they have to do with the horrific attack last night or the posts in this thread?

Also RTÉ have named the suspect, said Islamic State were reportedly 'celebrating' and gone into detail about the S watchlist for radicalised Islamic extremists that he was on, so your claim that they're "doing their best to disguise it" doesn't ring true: https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2018/1212/1016656-strasbourg/

I think you'll find we're all on the same side here - horrified and saddened by what happened last night - but this thread is a mess. RIP to the victims and bon courage to all in Strasbourg. Let's all hope they catch him ASAP.

FTA69

It’s a terrible occurrence, and it won’t be the last unfortunately; if you have people or small groups who are determined to crash a car into people or go on a rampage it’s nearly impossible to prevent. Some people think this won’t happen in Ireland, I wouldn’t be so sure - it only takes one radicalised nutter to jump behind the wheel of a car to do damage. We’re not immune to that anymore than Spain or Sweden or anywhere else is.

That having been said, people on this thread are making overly simplistic arguments about hordes of immigrants coming to Europe looking to kill us. The reality is that the vast majority of these attacks were committed by people born and raised here, in the UK a large amount by people who converted to Islam later in life and in most cases the majority of them weren’t even particularly religious growing up.

Immigration per se isn’t the cause of is. Britain, France, Spain etc have had Islamic immigration for over 100 years, this latest lark of attacks is very, very new. The problem (and there is a major problem), is the radicalisation of a section of young Muslims. The agent of that is a warped Saudi-backed doctrine that is spreading via oil money all over the world and that is being tolerated and backed by our own governments in many cases. The conditions in which it grows are fuelled by alienation and a host of other factors. It’s mad, you might have an Egyptian taxi driver here who is delighted to live in the UK and worked hard all of his life and his grandson who goes to school in Hackney is becoming a radicalised maniac.

The above opinion mightn’t be popular amongst some here, but there’s a lot more to this than ‘immigrants coming to kill us’.

emptyhouse2222

you lads will change your tune when they do a Beslan style attack
or have ye memoryholed that already

nthclare

FTA69 wrote: »

It’s a terrible occurrence, and it won’t be the last unfortunately; if you have people or small groups who are determined to crash a car into people or go on a rampage it’s nearly impossible to prevent. Some people think this won’t happen in Ireland, I wouldn’t be so sure - it only takes one radicalised nutter to jump behind the wheel of a car to do damage. We’re not immune to that anymore than Spain or Sweden or anywhere else is.

That having been said, people on this thread are making overly simplistic arguments about hordes of immigrants coming to Europe looking to kill us. The reality is that the vast majority of these attacks were committed by people born and raised here, in the UK a large amount by people who converted to Islam later in life and in most cases the majority of them weren’t even particularly religious growing up.

Immigration per se isn’t the cause of is. Britain, France, Spain etc have had Islamic immigration for over 100 years, this latest lark of attacks is very, very new. The problem (and there is a major problem), is the radicalisation of a section of young Muslims. The agent of that is a warped Saudi-backed doctrine that is spreading via oil money all over the world and that is being tolerated and backed by our own governments in many cases. The conditions in which it grows are fuelled by alienation and a host of other factors. It’s mad, you might have an Egyptian taxi driver here who is delighted to live in the UK and worked hard all of his life and his grandson who goes to school in Hackney is becoming a radicalised maniac.

The above opinion mightn’t be popular amongst some here, but there’s a lot more to this than ‘immigrants coming to kill us’.

It's definitely the wahabbism Sunni Saudi sect who are involved in radicalisation.

You don't hear of the average Sunnis Shias Suffis or Allawites behaving like the wahabbism shower.

Most Sunnis just want to get on in life too, but that wahabbism is down right nuts.

It takes a lot of reading and research about Islam to realise it's history, the division between the Shias and Sunnis

How the Christian crusaders were responsible for a lot of violence and upheaval too...

It's a broad subject...

begbysback

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

who do i hate

Because you are afraid, due to a lack of context - ingredients for extremism

emptyhouse2222

begbysback wrote: »

Because you are afraid, due to a lack of context - ingredients for extremism

more marxist pscyho babble

the people who are afraid are in Strasbourg

Zorya

FTA69 wrote: »

It’s a terrible occurrence, and it won’t be the last unfortunately; if you have people or small groups who are determined to crash a car into people or go on a rampage it’s nearly impossible to prevent. Some people think this won’t happen in Ireland, I wouldn’t be so sure - it only takes one radicalised nutter to jump behind the wheel of a car to do damage. We’re not immune to that anymore than Spain or Sweden or anywhere else is.

That having been said, people on this thread are making overly simplistic arguments about hordes of immigrants coming to Europe looking to kill us. The reality is that the vast majority of these attacks were committed by people born and raised here, in the UK a large amount by people who converted to Islam later in life and in most cases the majority of them weren’t even particularly religious growing up.

Immigration per se isn’t the cause of is. Britain, France, Spain etc have had Islamic immigration for over 100 years, this latest lark of attacks is very, very new. The problem (and there is a major problem), is the radicalisation of a section of young Muslims. The agent of that is a warped Saudi-backed doctrine that is spreading via oil money all over the world and that is being tolerated and backed by our own governments in many cases. The conditions in which it grows are fuelled by alienation and a host of other factors. It’s mad, you might have an Egyptian taxi driver here who is delighted to live in the UK and worked hard all of his life and his grandson who goes to school in Hackney is becoming a radicalised maniac.

The above opinion mightn’t be popular amongst some here, but there’s a lot more to this than ‘immigrants coming to kill us’.

Because of the automatic refrain of Islamophobia or racism if there is any criticism from your average person in the street, it perhaps would be best if senior representatives of the vast majority of peaceful, ordinary Muslims were much more proactive in condemning and educating where we find these terrible outbursts of violence from radicalised Salafi/Wahhabi Muslims. Though it is perhaps scary or endangering for them to even speak out too loudly. These people are terrorists, they are Muslim terrorists, though they do not represent the vast majority of Muslims, just as IRA terrorism did not represent the vast majority of Republicans. There needs, however, to be no sneaking regard or ambiguity within the Islamic communities in Europe for these terrorists, no harbouring or silence, as happened here. Though of course most ordinary Islamic people would be far too scared to stand up to people who will mow down other human beings so readily.

Terrible for the people in Strasbourg. Condolences to the bereaved. It is a lovely city which I have visited several times in the past few years as one of my family lived there. The people of the city are in shock.

FTA69

I think there are a lot of people in the Islamic community who do work against this kind of stuff, a friend of mine in Luton does sterling work with anti-radicalisation amongst young people there (Luton Tigers, worth looking up) and in fairness faith leaders are forever coming out condemning this stuff. Most of this radicalisation business happens in very small, informal mosques and also online; the internet allowing this sh*t to spread and fester like never before. But yeah, standing up to this stuff within the Islamic community is 100% needed and should be encouraged without suggesting that ordinary Muslims bear responsibility for the actions of a minority of nutters.

I think at a state level we do need to promote integration and a common civic identity, a bit like they did in Yugoslavia at one stage to be honest. I also think faith schools should be abolished, huge amounts of Islamic and Jewish schools for instance have been sh*t-shows but people seem terrified to point that out. If multiculturalism means people from different backgrounds living together and embracing positive aspects of their culture etc then I’m for it. If it means that everyone does whatever the f*ck they want all of the time then I’m opposed to it, and so should all right-thinking people.

There is a problem of radicalisation and a hardening of attitudes across the Islamic world; we must tackle it and also analyse the various reasons why it happens.

Zorya

To FT ^^^^
Agreed. I am listening at the moment to Munira Mizra, who is a very articulate part of this challenge and response.

weldoninhio

FTA69 wrote: »

I think there are a lot of people in the Islamic community who do work against this kind of stuff, a friend of mine in Luton does sterling work with anti-radicalisation amongst young people there (Luton Tigers, worth looking up) and in fairness faith leaders are forever coming out condemning this stuff. Most of this radicalisation business happens in very small, informal mosques and also online; the internet allowing this sh*t to spread and fester like never before. But yeah, standing up to this stuff within the Islamic community is 100% needed and should be encouraged without suggesting that ordinary Muslims bear responsibility for the actions of a minority of nutters.

I think at a state level we do need to promote integration and a common civic identity, a bit like they did in Yugoslavia at one stage to be honest. I also think faith schools should be abolished, huge amounts of Islamic and Jewish schools for instance have been sh*t-shows but people seem terrified to point that out. If multiculturalism means people from different backgrounds living together and embracing positive aspects of their culture etc then I’m for it. If it means that everyone does whatever the f*ck they want all of the time then I’m opposed to it, and so should all right-thinking people.

There is a problem of radicalisation and a hardening of attitudes across the Islamic world; we must tackle it and also analyse the various reasons why it happens.

We could all hold hands and sing We Are The World too. :rolleyes:

Zorya

FTA69 wrote: »

I think at a state level we do need to promote integration and a common civic identity, a bit like they did in Yugoslavia at one stage to be honest. I also think faith schools should be abolished, huge amounts of Islamic and Jewish schools for instance have been sh*t-shows but people seem terrified to point that out. If multiculturalism means people from different backgrounds living together and embracing positive aspects of their culture etc then I’m for it. If it means that everyone does whatever the f*ck they want all of the time then I’m opposed to it, and so should all right-thinking people.

yes. The multicultural versus the melting pot approach. I think multiculturalism as a buzz word is extremely poorly defined. People spout it all the time not quite knowing what it means. It should be seriously queried and interrogated. Without people being called racists automatically, which is beyond ridiculous.

FTA69

weldoninhio wrote: »

We could all hold hands and sing We Are The World too. :rolleyes:

Great response mate, terrific points raised. I like the way you addressed all the suggestions I made and made better ones of your own - all while rebutting the central point I was making (namely that we have a problem and we have to fix it).

Well done lad.

weldoninhio

FTA69 wrote: »

Great response mate, terrific points raised. I like the way you addressed all the suggestions I made and made better ones of your own - all while rebutting the central point I was making (namely that we have a problem and we have to fix it).

Well done lad.

Firstly, intern all people currently on jihadi watch lists, along with their families. Anyone with links/plans should be dealt with, with extreme prejudice. Those that can be, deport. Those that can't be should be dealt with extra-judicially with solitary confinement, 8 foot by 4 foot cells, nothing but a light in the ceiling and a hole in the ground, basic rations, basic exercise, no visits. Human rights should be suspended for these "people" who have no problem murdering "infidels".

topper75

FTA69 wrote: »

I think there are a lot of people in the Islamic community who do work against this kind of stuff, a friend of mine in Luton does sterling work with anti-radicalisation amongst young people there (Luton Tigers, worth looking up) and in fairness faith leaders are forever coming out condemning this stuff. Most of this radicalisation business happens in very small, informal mosques and also online; the internet allowing this sh*t to spread and fester like never before. But yeah, standing up to this stuff within the Islamic community is 100% needed and should be encouraged without suggesting that ordinary Muslims bear responsibility for the actions of a minority of nutters.

I think at a state level we do need to promote integration and a common civic identity, a bit like they did in Yugoslavia at one stage to be honest. I also think faith schools should be abolished, huge amounts of Islamic and Jewish schools for instance have been sh*t-shows but people seem terrified to point that out. If multiculturalism means people from different backgrounds living together and embracing positive aspects of their culture etc then I’m for it. If it means that everyone does whatever the f*ck they want all of the time then I’m opposed to it, and so should all right-thinking people.

There is a problem of radicalisation and a hardening of attitudes across the Islamic world; we must tackle it and also analyse the various reasons why it happens.

The forced veneer of Yugoslavia was revealed all so horrifically in the 90s.

Stopping religious schools would be tantamount to stopping religious freedom and a denial of human rights. However, rigorous state inspection of how the core curriculum is taught would be time and money well spent.

Grayson

FTA69 wrote: »

I think there are a lot of people in the Islamic community who do work against this kind of stuff, a friend of mine in Luton does sterling work with anti-radicalisation amongst young people there (Luton Tigers, worth looking up) and in fairness faith leaders are forever coming out condemning this stuff. Most of this radicalisation business happens in very small, informal mosques and also online; the internet allowing this sh*t to spread and fester like never before. But yeah, standing up to this stuff within the Islamic community is 100% needed and should be encouraged without suggesting that ordinary Muslims bear responsibility for the actions of a minority of nutters.

I think at a state level we do need to promote integration and a common civic identity, a bit like they did in Yugoslavia at one stage to be honest. I also think faith schools should be abolished, huge amounts of Islamic and Jewish schools for instance have been sh*t-shows but people seem terrified to point that out. If multiculturalism means people from different backgrounds living together and embracing positive aspects of their culture etc then I’m for it. If it means that everyone does whatever the f*ck they want all of the time then I’m opposed to it, and so should all right-thinking people.

There is a problem of radicalisation and a hardening of attitudes across the Islamic world; we must tackle it and also analyse the various reasons why it happens.

The problem with abolishing faith schools is that you'd have to get rid of christian ones too and that'd never be allowed.

I agree with you about radicalising online. It's a problem with all groups. It's not like the right wing nutjobs all met each other at the local conservative picnic. The vast majority of nutjobs on both sides are radicalised online where it's out of sight of the moderates within their communities. They are hidden communities that aren't visible unless you go looking for them.

There was someone who started a spreadsheet online where it lists when muslim leaders condemn attacks. I think it had about 40k entries when I read about it. There's massive condemnation on that side. However it's not really reported on. It doesn't make interesting headlines. You could have 1000 mulsims condemn something but the one nutjob who supported it will make the news because it's more outrageous.

facehugger99

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

who do i hate

Most of the ****e people like yourself post comes from a place of self-loathing.

Grayson

weldoninhio wrote: »

Firstly, intern all people currently on jihadi watch lists, along with their families. Anyone with links/plans should be dealt with, with extreme prejudice. Those that can be, deport. Those that can't be should be dealt with extra-judicially with solitary confinement, 8 foot by 4 foot cells, nothing but a light in the ceiling and a hole in the ground, basic rations, basic exercise, no visits. Human rights should be suspended for these "people" who have no problem murdering "infidels".

You want to imprison families? People who may have no knowledge of something and have done nothing at all?

granturismo

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

Thanks merkel

The shooter was born in Strasbourg

Grayson

Zorya wrote: »

Because of the automatic refrain of Islamophobia or racism if there is any criticism from your average person in the street, it perhaps would be best if senior representatives of the vast majority of peaceful, ordinary Muslims were much more proactive in condemning and educating where we find these terrible outbursts of violence from radicalised Salafi/Wahhabi Muslims. Though it is perhaps scary or endangering for them to even speak out too loudly. These people are terrorists, they are Muslim terrorists, though they do not represent the vast majority of Muslims, just as IRA terrorism did not represent the vast majority of Republicans. There needs, however, to be no sneaking regard or ambiguity within the Islamic communities in Europe for these terrorists, no harbouring or silence, as happened here. Though of course most ordinary Islamic people would be far too scared to stand up to people who will mow down other human beings so readily.

Terrible for the people in Strasbourg. Condolences to the bereaved. It is a lovely city which I have visited several times in the past few years as one of my family lived there. The people of the city are in shock.

Here you go https://muslimscondemn.com/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2017/mar/26/muslims-condemn-terrorism-stats

DS86DS

The Religion of Peace strikes again.

emptyhouse2222

facehugger99 wrote: »

Most of the ****e people like yourself post comes from a place of self-loathing.

ye must have a day off from clown-school today

Omackeral

granturismo wrote: »

The shooter was born in Strasbourg

As is often the case in these attacks. 2nd and 3rd generation scumbuckets causing havoc. People saying "send them back" are at nothing because they're from the countries that they're attacking in a lot of instances. However, pretending that they're dyed-in-the-wool proud Frenchmen is also burying your head in the sand. There's a theme with these atrocities more often than not but don't you dare say what it is...

FTA69

topper75 wrote: »

The forced veneer of Yugoslavia was revealed all so horrifically in the 90s.

Stopping religious schools would be tantamount to stopping religious freedom and a denial of human rights. However, rigorous state inspection of how the core curriculum is taught would be time and money well spent.

Well that argument works both ways, that when we had Yugoslavia people got on relatively grand and it was the collapse of the Eastern Bloc and the introduction of competing nationalisms that f*cked everything up. I mean it's not a perfect example by any means at all, but Balkan Muslims were a good example of how it can and should be done. I was in Albania and Montenegro in November and for the first time now in Tirana you see women walking around in niqabs etc, all directly related to radical mosques and madrasahs funded by Erdogan's Turkey. I spoke with Montenegrin Muslims who are deeply suspicious of Wahabbists now coming in and telling them they need to be wary of neighbours they've lived amongst for 500 years.

As for religious freedoms. Lots of countries have a secular education system and no faith schools, it's in no way a breach of someone's human rights to have state schooling. Religious freedom doesn't automatically extend to being able to bring off a load of kids and fill their heads with whatever you like.