Christmas bonus for welfare recipients not only restored but increased

road_high · 06-10-2018 09:32PM

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

Perhaps you haven't considered that there has been an increase in people being born with disabilities over the past 25 years. Or the fact that people out of work go onto illness benefit not disability allowance.

I have thought about that but it makes little sense in the context of vastly improved medical care, nutrition, knowledge around pregnancy etc.
If anything I'd have expected less disabilities to be around vs past generations.
I've no issue with genuine people and think they should be given support possible (including supporting increased training and workplace participation). Many don't want to be on welfare but the system and supports aren't there for them.
It's the ones taking the piss with fake illnesses and using it get on long term I have a major problem with. And they do exist so no point pretending there isn't an issue.

November Golf · 06-10-2018 09:35PM

road_high wrote: »

Many working people wouldn’t- so many are just about coping week to week. €200 spare cash would be a lot for a hell of a lot of workers. But for those on the dole and cheeerleading this farce it appears to be like cheap confetti

I agree that "so many are just about coping week to week. €200 spare cash would be a lot for a hell of a lot of workers".

However most working person would have an annual income over 20k which is twice the SW so the idea that it would be harder for them than someone on half that income is non-sense.

In addition, many working people on low incomes can claim some SW payment (supplementary welfare or family income supplement) to top-up there incomes which unemployed people cant get.

& of course this Thread disregards those would are working part-time or temporary jobs while on X's & O's.

One of the biggest problems for low-income working people is that they don't know what they are entitled to & when people like the Op demonise social welfare so much, people are discouraged from even finding out about supports.

road_high · 06-10-2018 09:35PM

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

How on earth are they robbing money? are people on SW breaking into home and business premises now and heading off with the loot?

I assume you don't have kids then, but for a lot of hard pressed people - families, separated parents who have fallen on bad times, people on long time disability, the Christmas bonus could be the difference between a happy Christmas and a fairly miserable one.

I mean, you can understand the basic humanity of that, right?

Whether I have kids or not is irrelevant. I believe if in personal responsibility and having kids means supporting them not putting the burden back on other taxpayers.
The whole Christmas thing is a joke/guilt trip, a luxury- if you want a special day for your family get up off your arse and work for it like the majority do.

November Golf · 06-10-2018 09:44PM

road_high wrote: »

I have thought about that but it makes little sense in the context of vastly improved medical care, nutrition, knowledge around pregnancy etc.
If anything I'd have expected less disabilities to be around vs past generations.
I've no issue with genuine people and think they should be given support possible (including supporting increased training and workplace participation). Many don't want to be on welfare but the system and supports aren't there for them.
It's the ones taking the piss with fake illnesses and using it get on long term I have a major problem with. And they do exist so no point pretending there isn't an issue.

Again I find myself agreeing with you "I've no issue with genuine people and think they should be given support possible (including supporting increased training and workplace participation). Many don't want to be on welfare but the system and supports aren't there for them.".

This could also be applied to long-term unemployment, many of whom have poor literacy or IT skills or those who would love to set up a business but cant get the financial supports needed to make that transition.

People would have "fake illnesses" & claiming SW really piss me off too however thankfully the numbers that make successful fake claims is relevantly low in comparison to those that have genuine illnesses & the number of fake claims are falling which the increase in integrate IT systems.

Church on Tuesday · 06-10-2018 09:48PM

road_high wrote: »

Whether I have kids or not is irrelevant. I believe if in personal responsibility and having kids means supporting them not putting the burden back on other taxpayers.
The whole Christmas thing is a joke/guilt trip, a luxury- if you want a special day for your family get up off your arse and work for it like the majority do.

Yeah you probably don't have kids then. Neither do I BTW.

I wouldn't really consider Christmas a luxury, it's more a thing that normal people do with loved ones, but hey, it can be a tricky time for some folk, myself included.

Ideally high road, you would indeed get up off your arse and work for it like the majority do and want to do, Sadly that's not an option for some folk who are genuine, and not like Mrs. Cash who you have alluded to.

You seem content to tar everyone with more or less the same brush if they are on the dole, genuine or no.

So that means you are effectively insulting people I've known personally, good people, who were stuck on the dole and had to leave this country to try make a few bob, myself included. I had to go too.

I'll ask you this, in the event that you do have children and say if the country goes balls up again, would you begrudge your children claiming the dole to keep them ticking over?

Genuine question, although I think I know the answer.

engiweirdo · 06-10-2018 09:54PM

road_high wrote: »

Very easily evidently. Just look at the rise in “disability” claimants over the past decades. Are people more disabled now than they used to be? Spare me!
Higher than in peer European countries also

Easily explainable without accusations of fraud tbh. Our understanding of mental illness, autism and neurological issues is still developing but definitely far in excess of what it was 25 years ago. Children with certain known birth "defects" are often aborted in European peer states, not an option here. Tiny fraction are actually fraudulent as with all SW payments. Pure Tory fantasy stuff.

All Seeing Eye · 06-10-2018 10:44PM

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

How on earth are they robbing money? are people on SW breaking into home and business premises now and heading off with the loot?

I assume you don't have kids then, but for a lot of hard pressed people - families, separated parents who have fallen on bad times, people on long time disability, the Christmas bonus could be the difference between a happy Christmas and a fairly miserable one.

I mean, you can understand the basic humanity of that, right?

In most cases the Christmas bonus is used to buy cheap slabs of beer and alcopops. You sound like someone from a privileged background who has a romanticised version of the welfare class.

The Rape of Lucretia · 06-10-2018 10:55PM

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

In most cases the Christmas bonus is used to buy cheap slabs of beer and alcopops. You sound like someone from a privileged background who has a romanticised version of the welfare class.

One can pick a very nice Burgundy, AND, and pretty top notch bottle of vintage Champagne with the Christmas bonus, which would enhance anyone's Christmas dinner.
That slab of beer and alcopops stereotype is rather insulting.

All Seeing Eye · 06-10-2018 11:01PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

One can pick a very nice Burgundy, AND, and pretty top notch bottle of vintage Champagne with the Christmas bonus, which would enhance anyone's Christmas dinner.
That slab of beer and alcopops stereotype is rather insulting.

Nice! I suppose it all tastes good when it’s free. It’s a lovely picture the welfare family in their new track suits and football jerseys huddled around the fire, celebrating Christmas for what it is rather the feast of materialism it has become.

end of the road · 06-10-2018 11:04PM

road_high wrote: »

Genuine disability yes. But we’ve had an explosion in “disability’s” the past two decades- another scam to get on the scratcher for life in some quarters. Course it can’t be tackled with the do gooder brigade dictating the running of the country.

what do gooder brigade is dictating the running of the country, and how are they preventing the tackling of people scamming disability benefit?

road_high wrote: »

Exactly. So the even more bizarre situation whereby the longer it is since you contributed the more you get back from taxpayers. Sheer madness, link the lot to your contributions and after that food stamps with mininal cash only.

i'd imagine that food stamps are unlikely as chances are it would be cost prohibitive to get a fully workable system up and running which would both allow for these stamps to work properly, and prevent a black market trade and other possible abuses should they exist.

end of the road · 06-10-2018 11:09PM

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

In most cases the Christmas bonus is used to buy cheap slabs of beer and alcopops.

in most cases? i have no doubt that is the case in some cases but most? i find that hard to believe. has this been verified for definite by any state agency or report?

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

You sound like someone from a privileged background who has a romanticised version of the welfare class.

or perhapse he's just someone who lives in the real world, who understands that there are scammers but it's not the whole or most of the wellfare class?

All Seeing Eye · 06-10-2018 11:15PM

end of the road wrote: »

in most cases? i have no doubt that is the case in some cases but most? i find that hard to believe. has this been verified for definite by any state agency or report?

or perhapse he's just someone who lives in the real world, who understands that there are scammers but it's not the whole or most of the wellfare class?

Can you point to the report that disproves it. Loads of work, free education and subsidised childcare around especially for the welfare class. No real excuse for most able bodied people to be on welfare.

Odhinn · 06-10-2018 11:19PM

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

In most cases the Christmas bonus is used to buy cheap slabs of beer and alcopops. You sound like someone from a privileged background who has a romanticised version of the welfare class.

....sounding remarkably like someone from a "privileged background" with a heavily stereotyped notion of the "welfare class".

All Seeing Eye · 06-10-2018 11:24PM

Odhinn wrote: »

....sounding remarkably like someone from a "privileged background" with a heavily stereotyped notion of the "welfare class".

If you are on a low income that’s all you will be able to afford so it’s not really a stereotype.

end of the road · 06-10-2018 11:32PM

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Can you point to the report that disproves it. Loads of work, free education and subsidised childcare around especially for the welfare class. No real excuse for most able bodied people to be on welfare.

i'm not the one claiming that most are spending the christmas boness on drink. you are, hence i asked if you were privy to information that i may have missed.
there is free education and subsidized child care, but not loads of work. there is work, but there is a lot of competition for it, and the few wellfare scammers most certainly would be at the bottom of the pile in terms of potential candidates.

Church on Tuesday · 06-10-2018 11:33PM

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

In most cases the Christmas bonus is used to buy cheap slabs of beer and alcopops. You sound like someone from a privileged background who has a romanticised version of the welfare class.

I wont lie you gave me a great laugh with your comment. I'm afraid I'm not of the privileged class; I am the son of a hairdresser and a labourer. Proudly.

You clearly have not read over my previous posts.

The "welfare class". These are certainly the words of someone from a"privileged background". If not, drop the chip on your shoulder.

I bet you never had to leave the country to find work either did you?

All Seeing Eye · 06-10-2018 11:37PM

end of the road wrote: »

i'm not the one claiming that most are spending the christmas boness on drink. you are, hence i asked if you were privy to information that i may have missed.
there is free education and subsidized child care, but not loads of work. there is work, but there is a lot of competition for it, and the few wellfare scammers most certainly would be at the bottom of the pile in terms of potential candidates.

You are claiming they don’t spend their bonus on drink so you should point me to the report the proves this according to your logic. Also you are now agreeing that they are scammers, thanks for the confirmation.

All Seeing Eye · 06-10-2018 11:40PM

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I wont lie you gave me a great laugh with your comment. I'm afraid I'm not of the privileged class; I am the son of a hairdresser and a labourer. Proudly.

You clearly have not read over my previous posts.

The "welfare class". These are certainly the words of someone from a"privileged background". If not, drop the chip on your shoulder.

I bet you never had to leave the country to find work either did you?

Your background is not underprivileged that’s for certain. My guess is you went to college and this elevated you to a higher social class than your parents so fair play to you for that. No I didn’t have to leave the country to find work but what’s that got to do with it?

Hitman3000 · 06-10-2018 11:40PM

All Seeing Eye wrote:

Can you point to the report that disproves it. Loads of work, free education and subsidised childcare around especially for the welfare class. No real excuse for most able bodied people to be on welfare.

You make a generalisation about cheap slabs of beer but seek a report off a different poster, get up the yard FFS.

All Seeing Eye · 06-10-2018 11:42PM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

You make a generalisation about cheap slabs of beer but seek a report off a different poster, get up the yard FFS.

He says it’s not true and asks for evidence in the form of a report so why shouldn’t I do likewise?

All Seeing Eye · 06-10-2018 11:43PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Point to the report that states you aren't talking utter ****e.

Could do this all night but point to the report that says I am!

All Seeing Eye · 06-10-2018 11:49PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Could you?

No I can’t so I mustn't be. See what I did there.

Odhinn · 06-10-2018 11:51PM

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

You are claiming they don’t spend their bonus on drink so you should point me to the report the proves this according to your logic. Also you are now agreeing that they are scammers, thanks for the confirmation.

Where is the report that backs your original suggestion to the contrary?

All Seeing Eye · 06-10-2018 11:58PM

Odhinn wrote: »

Where is the report that backs your original suggestion to the contrary?

Where is the other report that’s proves the point to the contrary.

All Seeing Eye · 07-10-2018 12:00AM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I know you are but what am i

That’s the riddle.

end of the road · 07-10-2018 12:01AM

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

You are claiming they don’t spend their bonus on drink so you should point me to the report the proves this according to your logic.

i'm not claiming "they" don't spend their boness on drink. i'm stating that i find it hard to believe that most wellfare recipients are spending their boness on drink. you on the other hand are claiming that most wellfare recipients spend their boness on drink, which is what started off our discussion.

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Also you are now agreeing that they are scammers, thanks for the confirmation.

i'm agreeing some wellfare recipients are scammers, something i have never denied. however "they" most certainly aren't all scammers.

Hitman3000 · 07-10-2018 12:05AM

ArtSmart wrote:

"The best solution to ease the burden of the 'working poor' is for them to denounce the non-working poor as scroungers."

I like this descriptive, it sums up the thought process of those that seek to be our betters.

Church on Tuesday · 07-10-2018 12:09AM

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Your background is not underprivileged that’s for certain. My guess is you went to college and this elevated you to a higher social class than your parents so fair play to you for that. No I didn’t have to leave the country to find work but what’s that got to do with it?

I don't consider myself better than my parents, how dare you.

Drop the chip on your shoulder pal. Pretty quick.

I bet you didn't have to leave the country, why am I not at all surprised.

Infact mods, can we get a ban for this imbecile?

All Seeing Eye · 07-10-2018 12:12AM

end of the road wrote: »

i'm not claiming "they" don't spend their boness on drink. i'm stating that i find it hard to believe that most wellfare recipients are spending their boness on drink. you on the other hand are claiming that most wellfare recipients spend their boness on drink, which is what started off our discussion.

i'm agreeing some wellfare recipients are scammers, something i have never denied. however "they" most certainly aren't all scammers.

Most people drink so it’s logical that they would spend their bonus on drink. The reason why I say they spend their bonus on drink is because on the normal rates of welfare most are only getting by and that is according to those in favour of the bonus. As alcohol is a luxury item it’s only logical that the welfare recipients would spend the extra cash on some luxury items to give them a little boost for Xmas. As for being scammers I still stand by my point that with all the help available for welfare recipients there is no excuse for able bodied people to be getting their income from the state.

lertsnim · 07-10-2018 12:20AM

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Can you point to the report that disproves it.

That's not how it works. As it is you that makes the claim, then it is you that proves it is true.

Of course if such proof existed you'd have posted it a long time ago. You are pulling facts from your arse.

Christmas bonus for welfare recipients not only restored but increased

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