Christmas bonus for welfare recipients not only restored but increased

weldoninhio · 06-10-2018 9:34pm

Johnnycanyon wrote: »

No but my comment regarding unfortunate people was not only directed at the unemployed..We all pay into social services,it's there for any citizen who needs it,so if you or I become sick, disabled or retire from work it's there for us to avail of..it's what makes us a civil caring society and I have no problem paying my share towards it.Yes we all know the lazy good for nothing's who spend their lives sponging but these are the minority and we shouldn't tar everyone on welfare with the same brush.

But if I lose my job tomorrow. I won’t get a bonus from the SW, even though I’ll prob need it more than some long term waster, so I don’t understand your point.

Church on Tuesday · 06-10-2018 9:41pm

Odhinn wrote: »

That hasn't been the case for many a year - the minimum wage put a stop to it, really. Certainly when I started in an office job I was earning 10 punts less than the dole, and the only reason I kept at it was the prospect of advancement and the availability of overtime.

That's the whole point of a job, the chance of advancement.

I worked a series of ****e jobs in England, where I would have been better off on the dole back home, but preferred to be working, as a result gained some valuable experience and have a fairly fully full CV, despite not getting the job I wanted in the field I wanted.

With the dole there is no advancement, only survival.

Johnnycanyon · 06-10-2018 9:43pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

But if I lose my job tomorrow. I won’t get a bonus from the SW, even though I’ll prob need it more than some long term waster, so I don’t understand your point.

No you obviously do not!

All Seeing Eye · 06-10-2018 9:44pm

ArtSmart wrote: »

Overheard in a high-end restaurant.

"The best solution to ease the burden of the 'working poor' is for them to denounce the non-working poor as scroungers."

I can't exactly remember who said it - all I remember was the smell off his expensive brandy/ aftershave/ cigar.

Sounds like an odd one considering smoking in restaurants is banned here

JustJoe7240 · 06-10-2018 9:46pm

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Sounds like an odd one considering smoking in restaurants is banned here

Who said it was here? Countries that don't have smoking bans actually have restaurants too.

All Seeing Eye · 06-10-2018 9:49pm

JustJoe7240 wrote: »

Who said it was here? Countries that don't have smoking bans actually have restaurants too.

Still an odd one though.

November Golf · 06-10-2018 9:51pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

But if I lose my job tomorrow. I won’t get a bonus from the SW, even though I’ll prob need it more than some long term waster, so I don’t understand your point.

Why would you need it more?

Working hard, paying your taxes and keeping the SW system ticking over but you don't have €198 in saving?

Hitman3000 · 06-10-2018 9:51pm

All Seeing Eye wrote:

Sounds like an odd one considering smoking in restaurants is banned here

Still a valid analogy regardless of venue.

All Seeing Eye · 06-10-2018 9:54pm

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

Why would you need it more?

Working hard, paying your taxes and keeping the SW system ticking over but you don't have €198 in saving?

He probably has a mortgage etc. That’s one thing all these scroungers don’t have to worry about. They can just trash a house, not pay the rent and then live in a hotel like a movie star.

road_high · 06-10-2018 9:55pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Pensioners , carers , those on disability , and those unfortunate enough to have lost their jobs recently also recieve the bonus . Is that ok with you ?

Genuine disability yes. But we’ve had an explosion in “disability’s” the past two decades- another scam to get on the scratcher for life in some quarters. Course it can’t be tackled with the do gooder brigade dictating the running of the country.

All Seeing Eye · 06-10-2018 9:56pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Still a valid analogy regardless of venue.

Very vague, sounds almost made up. Supposedly 2 knob ends heard by another knob end saying that in a high end restaurant.........very convenient.

weldoninhio · 06-10-2018 10:00pm

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

Why would you need it more?

Working hard, paying your taxes and keeping the SW system ticking over but you don't have €198 in saving?

Because I’ll have had a huge drop in income. Rather than having 12 months on the same income to adjust

Temptamperu · 06-10-2018 10:00pm

road_high wrote: »

Genuine disability yes. But we’ve had an explosion in “disability’s” the past two decades- another scam to get on the scratcher for life in some quarters. Course it can’t be tackled with the do gooder brigade dictating the running of the country.

How do you "fake" a disability with a doctor and an examiner?

weldoninhio · 06-10-2018 10:01pm

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

Why would you need it more?

Working hard, paying your taxes and keeping the SW system ticking over but you don't have €198 in saving?

Because I’ll have had a huge drop in income. Rather than having 12 months on the same income to adjust

November Golf · 06-10-2018 10:01pm

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

He probably has a mortgage etc. That’s one thing all these scroungers don’t have to worry about. They can just trash a house, not pay the rent and then live in a hotel like a movie star.

so if he lose his job in the morning and when on SW, are you suggesting he'd be the only one with a mortgage to pay?... many working people rely on social housing which of course they are required to pay rent to the local authority.

If everyone on SW could trash a house and live in a hotel, there would be more houses available & no homelessness. Nonsense point to make.

road_high · 06-10-2018 10:09pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You have to be unemployed for over a year to qualify for bonus same as fuel allowance.

Exactly. So the even more bizarre situation whereby the longer it is since you contributed the more you get back from taxpayers. Sheer madness, link the lot to your contributions and after that food stamps with mininal cash only.

November Golf · 06-10-2018 10:11pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Because I’ll have had a huge drop in income. Rather than having 12 months on the same income to adjust

If your income was that high, you should have saving and not be scrounging off the SW.

However someone living on SW for a year which is well below the living wage, would find it very hard to save money after paying all there bills and possibly a mortgage or Car (which they would need if they have any hope of looking for work).

I would understand if you said you would equal need it, but to suggest you would need it more?? Seems OTT

road_high · 06-10-2018 10:12pm

Temptamperu wrote: »

How do you "fake" a disability with a doctor and an examiner?

Very easily evidently. Just look at the rise in “disability” claimants over the past decades. Are people more disabled now than they used to be? Spare me!
Higher than in peer European countries also

road_high · 06-10-2018 10:14pm

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

Why would you need it more?

Working hard, paying your taxes and keeping the SW system ticking over but you don't have €198 in saving?

Many working people wouldn’t- so many are just about coping week to week. €200 spare cash would be a lot for a hell of a lot of workers. But for those on the dole and cheeerleading this farce it appears to be like cheap confetti

road_high · 06-10-2018 10:21pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

It's good to see the Christmas spirit alive and well here.

What’s that exactly? Robbing money from those that have earned to those that haven’t? I couldn’t give a flying fcuk about Christmas spirit really- it’s not life or death and is a luxury celebration.
I don’t buy into this entitlement culture and firm believer in work for rewards.

November Golf · 06-10-2018 10:22pm

road_high wrote: »

Exactly. So the even more bizarre situation whereby the longer it is since you contributed the more you get back from taxpayers. Sheer madness, link the lot to your contributions and after that food stamps with mininal cash only.

The reason it kicks in after one year is become of the fact they have been on low-income for a year or more. The logic would be that a person who would lose there job in the morning should, at least in theory, have some saving. The means test for new claimants on jobseekers benefit and allowance generally disregards small amounts of saving.

road_high wrote: »

Very easily evidently. Just look at the rise in “disability” claimants over the past decades. Are people more disabled now than they have see to be? Spare me!
Higher than in peer European countries also

Perhaps you haven't considered that there has been an increase in people being born with disabilities over the past 25 years. Or the fact that people out of work go onto illness benefit not disability allowance.

Doctor Jimbob · 06-10-2018 10:29pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

But if I lose my job tomorrow. I won’t get a bonus from the SW, even though I’ll prob need it more than some long term waster, so I don’t understand your point.

Despite being generally pro welfare in these threads, that's one thing I agree is a serious problem. Long term dole seems to yield more reward than short term, which is completely backwards.

Church on Tuesday · 06-10-2018 10:31pm

road_high wrote: »

What’s that exactly? Robbing money from those that have earned to those that haven’t? I couldn’t give a flying fcuk about Christmas spirit really- it’s not life or death and is a luxury celebration.
I don’t buy into this entitlement culture and firm believer in work for rewards.

How on earth are they robbing money? are people on SW breaking into home and business premises now and heading off with the loot?

I assume you don't have kids then, but for a lot of hard pressed people - families, separated parents who have fallen on bad times, people on long time disability, the Christmas bonus could be the difference between a happy Christmas and a fairly miserable one.

I mean, you can understand the basic humanity of that, right?

road_high · 06-10-2018 10:32pm

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

Perhaps you haven't considered that there has been an increase in people being born with disabilities over the past 25 years. Or the fact that people out of work go onto illness benefit not disability allowance.

I have thought about that but it makes little sense in the context of vastly improved medical care, nutrition, knowledge around pregnancy etc.
If anything I'd have expected less disabilities to be around vs past generations.
I've no issue with genuine people and think they should be given support possible (including supporting increased training and workplace participation). Many don't want to be on welfare but the system and supports aren't there for them.
It's the ones taking the piss with fake illnesses and using it get on long term I have a major problem with. And they do exist so no point pretending there isn't an issue.

November Golf · 06-10-2018 10:35pm

road_high wrote: »

Many working people wouldn’t- so many are just about coping week to week. €200 spare cash would be a lot for a hell of a lot of workers. But for those on the dole and cheeerleading this farce it appears to be like cheap confetti

I agree that "so many are just about coping week to week. €200 spare cash would be a lot for a hell of a lot of workers".

However most working person would have an annual income over 20k which is twice the SW so the idea that it would be harder for them than someone on half that income is non-sense.

In addition, many working people on low incomes can claim some SW payment (supplementary welfare or family income supplement) to top-up there incomes which unemployed people cant get.

& of course this Thread disregards those would are working part-time or temporary jobs while on X's & O's.

One of the biggest problems for low-income working people is that they don't know what they are entitled to & when people like the Op demonise social welfare so much, people are discouraged from even finding out about supports.

road_high · 06-10-2018 10:35pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

How on earth are they robbing money? are people on SW breaking into home and business premises now and heading off with the loot?

I assume you don't have kids then, but for a lot of hard pressed people - families, separated parents who have fallen on bad times, people on long time disability, the Christmas bonus could be the difference between a happy Christmas and a fairly miserable one.

I mean, you can understand the basic humanity of that, right?

Whether I have kids or not is irrelevant. I believe if in personal responsibility and having kids means supporting them not putting the burden back on other taxpayers.
The whole Christmas thing is a joke/guilt trip, a luxury- if you want a special day for your family get up off your arse and work for it like the majority do.

November Golf · 06-10-2018 10:44pm

road_high wrote: »

I have thought about that but it makes little sense in the context of vastly improved medical care, nutrition, knowledge around pregnancy etc.
If anything I'd have expected less disabilities to be around vs past generations.
I've no issue with genuine people and think they should be given support possible (including supporting increased training and workplace participation). Many don't want to be on welfare but the system and supports aren't there for them.
It's the ones taking the piss with fake illnesses and using it get on long term I have a major problem with. And they do exist so no point pretending there isn't an issue.

Again I find myself agreeing with you "I've no issue with genuine people and think they should be given support possible (including supporting increased training and workplace participation). Many don't want to be on welfare but the system and supports aren't there for them.".

This could also be applied to long-term unemployment, many of whom have poor literacy or IT skills or those who would love to set up a business but cant get the financial supports needed to make that transition.

People would have "fake illnesses" & claiming SW really piss me off too however thankfully the numbers that make successful fake claims is relevantly low in comparison to those that have genuine illnesses & the number of fake claims are falling which the increase in integrate IT systems.

Church on Tuesday · 06-10-2018 10:48pm

road_high wrote: »

Whether I have kids or not is irrelevant. I believe if in personal responsibility and having kids means supporting them not putting the burden back on other taxpayers.
The whole Christmas thing is a joke/guilt trip, a luxury- if you want a special day for your family get up off your arse and work for it like the majority do.

Yeah you probably don't have kids then. Neither do I BTW.

I wouldn't really consider Christmas a luxury, it's more a thing that normal people do with loved ones, but hey, it can be a tricky time for some folk, myself included.

Ideally high road, you would indeed get up off your arse and work for it like the majority do and want to do, Sadly that's not an option for some folk who are genuine, and not like Mrs. Cash who you have alluded to.

You seem content to tar everyone with more or less the same brush if they are on the dole, genuine or no.

So that means you are effectively insulting people I've known personally, good people, who were stuck on the dole and had to leave this country to try make a few bob, myself included. I had to go too.

I'll ask you this, in the event that you do have children and say if the country goes balls up again, would you begrudge your children claiming the dole to keep them ticking over?

Genuine question, although I think I know the answer.

engiweirdo · 06-10-2018 10:54pm

road_high wrote: »

Very easily evidently. Just look at the rise in “disability” claimants over the past decades. Are people more disabled now than they used to be? Spare me!
Higher than in peer European countries also

Easily explainable without accusations of fraud tbh. Our understanding of mental illness, autism and neurological issues is still developing but definitely far in excess of what it was 25 years ago. Children with certain known birth "defects" are often aborted in European peer states, not an option here. Tiny fraction are actually fraudulent as with all SW payments. Pure Tory fantasy stuff.

All Seeing Eye · 06-10-2018 11:44pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

How on earth are they robbing money? are people on SW breaking into home and business premises now and heading off with the loot?

I assume you don't have kids then, but for a lot of hard pressed people - families, separated parents who have fallen on bad times, people on long time disability, the Christmas bonus could be the difference between a happy Christmas and a fairly miserable one.

I mean, you can understand the basic humanity of that, right?

In most cases the Christmas bonus is used to buy cheap slabs of beer and alcopops. You sound like someone from a privileged background who has a romanticised version of the welfare class.

Christmas bonus for welfare recipients not only restored but increased

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