Christmas bonus for welfare recipients not only restored but increased

trixiebust

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Same here I still see all the tricks most days. A few HAP merchants in our estate are not shy about broadcasting their business. All kids wearing the newest football shirts, sky dishes, trips away, takeaways being delivered, nights out, smart phones for all kids, absent fathers (wink wink), audis, bmws, cash jobs etc etc. Hardly the lives of those on the breadline.

Why are these lines always trotted out. Just like everything else in life, there are always people who will try & cheat a system, no matter what it is.

The majority of people on welfare, actually don't go & shout about. These few do.

November Golf

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Can you disprove any of it either? I’m making relevant points based on experience. You and your cohorts are either trying to write me off as a fool or else asking for reports. You are coming back with nothing meaningful and its driving you mad.

I think you are writing yourself off as a fool by making wild and unfounded assertions based on "your experience" that is not backed up by evident or statistics.

To be honest, when I read comments from so many people doing the same thing, I have to wonder why there aren't more people on SW. I personal wouldn't like to hire someone that considers there own made up BS to be actual facts.

You better hope you never lose your job. You might find it hard to get another.

All Seeing Eye

trixiebust wrote: »

Why are these lines always trotted out. Just like everything else in life, there are always people who will try & cheat a system, no matter what it is.

The majority of people on welfare, actually don't go & shout about. These few do.

They aren’t shouting about it this is just the lifestyle for families when you are getting government handouts. It’s like there is special template for it! You need to get to know some of these people and observe their antics.

end of the road

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Can you disprove any of it either? I’m making relevant points based on experience. You and your cohorts are either trying to write me off as a fool or else asking for reports. You are coming back with nothing meaningful and its driving you mad.

i would have to respectfully disagree. my view is you are making generalisations about a whole group of people, based on the actions of a small amount, some of who you perhapse have had experience of, but who do not prove anything in terms of the whole group.
i would have to respectfully disagree that your lack of any points, and your generalisations, are driving me mad. they are being debunked very easily and quickly i'm afraid.

All Seeing Eye

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

I think you are writing yourself off as a fool by making wild and unfounded assertions based on "your experience" that is not backed up by evident or statistics.

To be honest, when I read comments from so many people doing the same thing, I have to wonder why there aren't more people on SW. I personal wouldn't like to hire someone that considers there own made up BS to be actual facts.

You better hope you never lose your job. You might find it hard to get another.

The reality of it is loads of people are wondering why they are working and getting by while their neighbour who is a total waster seems to have the same life less all the worries about paying for housing, bills, kids etc.

You don’t have to worry about me losing my job but if I did I would deserve SW because I have made my contributions for many years. The ironic thing is I probably wouldn’t be entitled to as much because I have done something with my life. The system rewards those who have done f**k all with their lives, earned no money and have no assets then you will get everything going.

stateofflux

realitykeeper wrote: »

As a society, Ireland must adapt to live within our means. If we want to pay dole recipients a Christmas bonus fine just as long as we stop collectively living beyond our means and start making serious repayments on the principle of the national debt. I would suggest at least 10 billion per year (over and above the 7 billion or so we are spending on the interest payments).

How should this be funded? If the dole is to remain untouched, capitalists would say by privatizations and spending less on things like the health service. Socialists would say tax the rich. Taxing the rich would ensure a flight of capital. Capital controls would stop inward investment so even a mass seizure of property to raise revenue by sale would only bring in a pittance as property prices plummet in countries where nobody wants to invest.

Of course, legal exemptions can be made exclusively for non residents like the vulture funds (because sometimes some of us do tend to be jealous if one of our own start to do well for themselves).

To make substantial reductions to the national debt, all state assets including the HSE will either have to be sold off or average wages must drop to a euro an hour in which case it would be difficult to pay anything for anything because the untouched dole recipients would be getting nearly three times the average industrial wage

Seriously though, I think low pay (including dole payments) coupled with the abolishment of bankruptcy laws is the way to pay off the national debt and grow the economy.

Reality : There will be no pay reductions - only increases in both public and private sector for the next few years. Unless some major external crisis happens

The HSE wont be touched-- many tried or pretended to try

Dole expenditure on 'bonus' is a red herring just like the 40 million fraud clampdown is simply not true

Remember the majority of all income tax generation here is from FDR or related

November Golf

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

I think you are writing yourself off as a fool by making wild and unfounded assertions based on "your experience" that is not backed up by evident or statistics.

To be honest, when I read comments from so many people doing the same thing, I have to wonder why there aren't more people on SW. I personal wouldn't like to hire someone that considers there own made up BS to be actual facts.

You better hope you never lose your job. You might find it hard to get another.

The reality of it is loads of people are wondering why they are working and getting by while their neighbour who is a total waster seems to have the same life less all the worries about paying for housing, bills, kids etc.

You don’t have to worry about me losing my job but if I did I would deserve SW because I have made my contributions for many years. The ironic thing is I probably wouldn’t be entitled to as much because I have done something with my life. The system rewards those who have done f**k all with their lives, earned no money and have no assets then you will get everything going.

So is it just one neighbour they are giving out about? And you based your whole argument on that one person.

People on SW have rent and bills to pay too. Electric Ireland don't care if your on SW or not haha.

There is no doubt that you would deserve it if you've made your contributions but your whole argument is that all people receiving SW are freeloaders. So that would include you? Or are you giving yourself a special exemption ??

Jobseekers Benefit is not means tested so im sure you'd get the same as every else but if you have done something with your life and have load of money and assets you shouldn't need "handouts" as you put it.

Sunflower 27

I never understand the vitriol on these threads. How much extra will each recipient get? What will it buy? Sweet f.a.

All Seeing Eye

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

I never understand the vitriol on these threads. How much extra will each recipient get? What will it buy? Sweet f.a.

A few slabs of cheap beer and a crate of alcopops........Merry Xmas!

Sunflower 27

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

A few slabs of cheap beer and a crate of alcopops........Merry Xmas!

And you know what, if that is the best someone has to look forward to, let them have it.

I was on JSB many years ago. I was absolutely miserable but it was an unfortunate necessity following redundancy in the recession.

I was constantly worried about paying bills and mortgage (got a tenant in which helped), but my main concern was my mental health.

I look back now and don't know how I managed. I went back to college and retrained (stuck it on a credit card, no other option). I had insomnia (from worry), depression , anxiety and struggled with feeling worthless.

I can't remember if I ever got a Christmas bonus (that whole time is a blur) , but if I did, I think it would have been greatly appreciated.

All Seeing Eye

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

So is it just one neighbour they are giving out about? And you based your whole argument on that one person.

People on SW have rent and bills to pay too. Electric Ireland don't care if your on SW or not haha.

There is no doubt that you would deserve it if you've made your contributions but your whole argument is that all people receiving SW are freeloaders. So that would include you? Or are you giving yourself a special exemption ??

Jobseekers Benefit is not means tested so im sure you'd get the same as every else but if you have done something with your life and have load of money and assets you shouldn't need "handouts" as you put it.

I see more than one family enjoying the fruits of SW. I’m not seeing any of them living in poverty or looking like they are on the breadline. I know loads of people on it and I hear lots of stories. SW can provide a relatively good lifestyle so why should they get a bonus that’s the point.

Initially job seekers benefit is not means tested but you won’t be getting all the housing supports and little extras without doing a means test. After the job seekers benefit period runs out you will then have to do a means test and that’s where wasters have the advantage over those who might have savings and assets. The other thing is SW is there to help genuine people when they fall on hard times it’s meant as a temporary support not a lifestyle choice.

Even if I was on SW you can guarantee I would have paid multiples of what I would receive that’s how it was originally designed to work instead it’s degenerated into free money for those who contribute nothing to the SW budget.

All Seeing Eye

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

And you know what, if that is the best someone has to look forward to, let them have it.

I was on JSB many years ago. I was absolutely miserable but it was an unfortunate necessity following redundancy in the recession.

I was constantly worried about paying bills and mortgage (got a tenant in which helped), but my main concern was my mental health.

I look back now and don't know how I managed. I went back to college and retrained (stuck it on a credit card, no other option). I had insomnia (from worry), depression , anxiety and struggled with feeling worthless.

I can't remember if I ever got a Christmas bonus (that whole time is a blur) , but if I did, I think it would have been greatly appreciated.

Your just reinforcing my earlier point you were working and contributing had a mortgage etc. and then you have to get by on SW which won’t cover your outgoings. Where if you left school early, had a few kids, didnt work or save you could go on SW and get full support. If your bills get too much you could then nip down to the SW office and get a discretionary handout to cover some bills while you save up for a sun holiday in Benidorm.

Sunflower 27

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Your just reinforcing my earlier point you were working and contributing had a mortgage etc. and then you have to get by on SW which won’t cover your outgoings. Where if you left school early, had a few kids, didnt work or save you could go on SW and get full support. If your bills get too much you could then nip down to the SW office and get a discretionary handout to cover some bills while you save up for a sun holiday in Benidorm.

But it's not a great life is it? One crap holiday a year?. You make it sound like they are living the absolute high life. How can they on what they get.?

Look, it's not going to change. Pregnant single mums, for example, are going to get houses and handouts.

I look back at my time on JSB as abysmal. So many things I wanted but could not afford. It certainly wasn't a party. I imagine a lot of people on SW have emotional problems and/or addiction.

There will always be people that abuse the system, that's why we can and should report them.

But really, I can't be bothered getting all het up about a few measly extra euro people get at Christmas. I live a good life now and would hate to be just getting by. Because, really, that is what most on SW do.

All Seeing Eye

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

But it's not a great life is it? One crap holiday a year?. You make it sound like they are living the absolute high life. How can they on what they get.?

Look, it's not going to change. Pregnant single mums, for example, are going to get houses and handouts.

I look back at my time on JSB as abysmal. So many things I wanted but could not afford. It certainly wasn't a party. I imagine a lot of people on SW have emotional problems and/or addiction.

There will always be people that abuse the system, that's why we can and should report them.

But really, I can't be bothered getting all het up about a few measly extra euro people get at Christmas. I live a good life now and would hate to be just getting by. Because, really, that is what most on SW do.

One holiday year that’s all I get! It’s a luxury item so shows SW rates are too much. The incentive should be to get off it by whatever means. Your coming from a background of working so going from that to SW would cause problems especially if you are used to having money and being busy. The long term SW by choice people are well used to filling their days usually busy minding their kids or collecting them from school in their seven seater. Posting on Facebook,going to the gym, cleaning the house, Costa, browsing in Dealz, after school activities etc. loads to do.

Sunflower 27

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

One holiday year that’s all I get! It’s a luxury item so shows SW rates are too much. The incentive should be to get off it by whatever means. Your coming from a background of working so going from that to SW would cause problems especially if you are used to having money and being busy. The long term SW by choice people are well used to filling their days usually busy minding their kids or collecting them from school in their seven seater. Posting on Facebook,going to the gym, cleaning the house, Costa, browsing in Dealz, after school activities etc. loads to do.

Not really, you can get holidays very cheaply if you book in advance.

Who posts their worries and struggles on Facebook? A coffee in Costa, browsing Dealz , cleaning the house..... Hardly thrilling is it? And all stuff that doesn't cost much money. Because no matter what you say or think SW is not loads of money and people that remain on it are unlikely to ever improve their situation.

I prefer to pity that than get angry about it.

November Golf

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

So is it just one neighbour they are giving out about? And you based your whole argument on that one person.

People on SW have rent and bills to pay too. Electric Ireland don't care if your on SW or not haha.

There is no doubt that you would deserve it if you've made your contributions but your whole argument is that all people receiving SW are freeloaders. So that would include you? Or are you giving yourself a special exemption ??

Jobseekers Benefit is not means tested so im sure you'd get the same as every else but if you have done something with your life and have load of money and assets you shouldn't need "handouts" as you put it.

The other thing is SW is there to help genuine people when they fall on hard times it’s meant as a temporary support not a lifestyle choice.

Your whole argument revolved around the idea that no one on SW was genuine, now your saying that there are genuine people getting SW?

How do you know who is genuine or not?

Sure you know a fella that knows a fella but that doesn't represent the vast majority.

And even that one fella you do know, how do you know he does have a genuine problem in getting work? Maybe he can't read or has a hidden disability like dyslexia or maybe he doesn't. If you are so confident in your assertions then report him/them to the DSP or guards if you have evidence of fraud.

But stop making generalisations that you can't stand over.

All Seeing Eye

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Not really, you can get holidays very cheaply if you book in advance.

Who posts their worries and struggles on Facebook? A coffee in Costa, browsing Dealz , cleaning the house..... Hardly thrilling is it? And all stuff that doesn't cost much money. Because no matter what you say or think SW is not loads of money and people that remain on it are unlikely to ever improve their situation.

I prefer to pity that than get angry about it.

So someone who works, gets up early, works all day. Travels as a commuter or in traffic. Drops off/ collects kids, home late, dinner, tv and maybe a hobby during the week. No time to sort out stuff during the week maybe on their lunch break or on the net. Tired at the weekend, clean the house, may be Costa, browse the shops, worry about bills. Save for holiday, Xmas etc. Hold onto job etc. Sounds like in some cases SW life is easier.

All Seeing Eye

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

Your whole argument revolved around the idea that no one on SW was genuine, now your saying that there are genuine people getting SW?

How do you know who is genuine or not?

Sure you know a fella that knows a fella but that doesn't represent the vast majority.

And even that one fella you do know, how do you know he does have a genuine problem in getting work? Maybe he can't read or has a hidden disability like dyslexia or maybe he doesn't. If you are so confident in your assertions then report him/them to the DSP or guards if you have evidence of fraud.

But stop making generalisations that you can't stand over.

Your making generalisations based on my posts rather than coming up with some of your own examples to back up your points. Read some of my previous posts about reporting fraud. I still get back to my original point is that they should’t be handing out an Xmas bonus as SW rates and benefits are good enough as it is.

Sunflower 27

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

So someone who works, gets up early, works all day. Travels as a commuter or in traffic. Drops off/ collects kids, home late, dinner, tv and maybe a hobby during the week. No time to sort out stuff during the week maybe on their lunch break or on the net. Tired at the weekend, clean the house, may be Costa, browse the shops, worry about bills. Save for holiday, Xmas etc. Hold onto job etc. Sounds like in some cases SW life is easier.

I can only speak for the people I know that work. Most of them live fulfilling lives and know the longer they work and the more experience they get, the better the jobs they get and the more they will be paid.

If SW was the easy ride and high life you suggest it is, don't you think far more would be cashing in?

Graces7

May we please get back to the real subject of the thread?

People on SW are often not able for many luxuries. It is a life needing discipline especially if you have lost a job etc. and are used to an easier life

Christmas in midwinter is already stressed because of winter weather. Keeping warm as a family, as an old person, is challenging enough.

Shops full of beauty and light! Loved ones you would love to give to! Special foods to enjoy.... yes, if you like a celebratory drink, fine too.

A break from being always watchful of pennies. A few treats...

Begrudgery begone!

engiweirdo

Anyone on SW going on a sun holiday either has unbelievable financial planning skills(could be very employable) or has another source of income to be honest. It is not designed for, and does not provide this level of luxury, nor should it.

All Seeing Eye

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

I can only speak for the people I know that work. Most of them live fulfilling lives and know the longer they work and the more experience they get, the better the jobs they get and the more they will be paid.

If SW was the easy ride and high life you suggest it is, don't you think far more would be cashing in?

Pride stops a lot of people cashing in they’d rather work, do things legit and provide an example to their children.

All Seeing Eye

engiweirdo wrote: »

Anyone on SW going on a sun holiday either has unbelievable financial planning skills(could be very employable) or has another source of income to be honest. It is not designed for, and does not provide this level of luxury, nor should it.

You are definitely leading a sheltered life.

engiweirdo

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

You are definitely leading a sheltered life.

Not really, had my first holiday in years last summer as I had my third year (paid) placement in college. Would have been completely out of reach on SW without resorting to fraudulent/dubious methods. This is certainly not the norm.

Sunflower 27

engiweirdo wrote: »

Not really, had my first holiday in years last summer as I had my third year (paid) placement in college. Would have been completely out of reach on SW without resorting to fraudulent/dubious methods. This is certainly not the norm.

You need to look around. gohop.ie and travel republic.ie are great for cheap breaks!

And I suppose some people on SW could get help from family members to ensure kids get a week away

All Seeing Eye

engiweirdo wrote: »

Not really, had my first holiday in years last summer as I had my third year (paid) placement in college. Would have been completely out of reach on SW without resorting to fraudulent/dubious methods. This is certainly not the norm.

Point proven, you are still in College or just finished.

nice_guy80

easy to get a sun holiday cheap during the time most other families are out working or the kids are in school
take the kids as well, sure why would they need to be in school? the SW is there for them too when they reach the age!

engiweirdo

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Point proven, you are still in College or just finished.

Mature student though at 34 & living in a council area so not sheltered from the great unwashed. The neighbours that you'd see heading off on holidays are generally the ones you'd see leaving for work in the morning. Long term SW is not a dream life anyone aspires to.

All Seeing Eye

engiweirdo wrote: »

Mature student though at 34 & living in a council area so not sheltered from the great unwashed. The neighbours that you'd see heading off on holidays are generally the ones you'd see leaving for work in the morning. Long term SW is not a dream life anyone aspires to.

Any of the families I know on SW have got away this summer, for the kids sake!

Hitman3000

All Seeing Eye wrote:

Any of the families I know on SW have got away this summer, for the kids sake!

Totally believeable lol.