Christmas bonus for welfare recipients not only restored but increased

All Seeing Eye

lertsnim wrote: »

So you can't prove it. Good night.

No one here can disprove it either. I’ve come up with some compelling evidence based on the assertions of those in favour of the welfare Xmas bonus.

Hitman3000

All Seeing Eye wrote:

The words of a beaten man. I’ve used your own “indisputable†points against you as the evidence for my own point and you have no come back.

Repeatedly stating BS proves nothing. Although it is amusing that you think anything said here means anything.

All Seeing Eye

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Repeatedly stating BS proves nothing. Although it is amusing that you think anything said here means anything.

Your not even trying to come up with counter arguments just calling my posts BS shows I’ve got to you.

Hitman3000

All Seeing Eye wrote:

Your not even trying to come up with counter arguments just calling my posts BS shows I’ve got to you.

If you made what could be considered a point i would respond in kind but so far you have failed. If course if you anything of worth to say fire ahead.

All Seeing Eye

Hitman3000 wrote: »

If you made what could be considered a point i would respond in kind but so far you have failed. If course if you anything of worth to say fire ahead.

Classic words of someone who is stuck for a counter argument.

end of the road

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Most people drink so it’s logical that they would spend their bonus on drink.

well no, it's not automatically logical that most wellfare recipients would spend their boness on drink, on the basis that most people drink.

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

The reason why I say they spend their bonus on drink is because on the normal rates of welfare most are only getting by and that is according to those in favour of the bonus.

the fact most are getting buy on normal rates of wellfare does not dictate that they will automatically spend the boness on luxury items.
i think the reason you state that most of them spend their money on drink, is that you believe it and wish to generalise. now that you have been caught out and called out, i think you are changing the reason.

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

As alcohol is a luxury item it’s only logical that the welfare recipients would spend the extra cash on some luxury items to give them a little boost for Xmas.

well no, it's not logical that they would. some no doubt will, but we cannot say for definite that it's logical that most would do it.

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

As for being scammers I still stand by my point that with all the help available for welfare recipients there is no excuse for able bodied people to be getting their income from the state.

well unfortunately there very much is . unemployability is certainly 1 large reason, and is the main reason.

Hitman3000

All Seeing Eye wrote:

Classic words of someone who is stuck for a counter argument.

Yet you offer no counter point. I wonder why?

Graces7

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Most people drink so it’s logical that they would spend their bonus on drink. The reason why I say they spend their bonus on drink is because on the normal rates of welfare most are only getting by and that is according to those in favour of the bonus. As alcohol is a luxury item it’s only logical that the welfare recipients would spend the extra cash on some luxury items to give them a little boost for Xmas. As for being scammers I still stand by my point that with all the help available for welfare recipients there is no excuse for able bodied people to be getting their income from the state.

What a generalisation! Many of us including myself do not drink. Which invalidates your whole post

All Seeing Eye

Graces7 wrote: »

What a generalisation! Many of us including myself do not drink. Which invalidates your whole post

Why are you on welfare?

Graces7

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Why are you on welfare?

MYOB frankly with such an impolitely phrased question! Maybe read the thread! Thank you

Graces7

There was a radio item last Christmas where they stopped people coming out of a Post Office to ask what they thought of the Bonus.

One lady said she was disappointed that it was only e100 as she had seen a blouse she liked in a shop and it was \e150

They asked her why she could not make that amount up from her usual welfare money and she explained that she spent over E50 a week on "weed" as it helped her bad back.

What came across was that she was not a very bright person. The money was there so she took it. Period. No questioning etc. Simplicity

There are many on welfare who could not hold a job yet are not quite "qualified" for disability. Maybe it is these who elevate the figures?

All Seeing Eye

Graces7 wrote: »

MYOB frankly with such an impolitely phrased question! Maybe read the thread!

Well you said you don’t drink so just wanted to test my generalisation. I take it your not on handouts then so your point has no relevance to what I said.

iamwhoiam

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Why are you on welfare?

what a rude post

All Seeing Eye

iamwhoiam wrote: »

what a rude post

I see you are subtly trying to get me off this thread feigning offence just because I am asking a few hard questions.

iamwhoiam

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

I see you are subtly trying to get me off this thread feigning offence just because I am asking a few hard questions.

LOL LOL at your "hard questions "

All Seeing Eye

iamwhoiam wrote: »

LOL LOL at your "hard questions "

Again the tactics of someone with no decent comeback

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Bollix!! People on the dole aren’t unfortunate, they get free houses, free healthcare, free dental etc. There’s a Lidl/Aldi near to most people. Struggling to pay for both Sky Sports and BT Sports does not make you unfortunate.

Long term doalers, maybe. If you’re unfortunate enough to lose your job in the morning, you get very few of the above.
Regarding long term doalers, many are unemployable for various reasons. Health issues, mental or otherwise that may make it difficult for them to get disability. Personality disorders, etc. not all long term doalers are workshy. Should they all be left to fend for themselves?
It’s to our credit, as a nation that we care for all.
Of course there are some that abuse the system. In reality they are the poorer for it. Despite how tough it can be, earning your own living is rewarding.

Edgware

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I know you are but what am i

A gob****e

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Long term doalers, maybe. If you’re unfortunate enough to lose your job in the morning, you get very few of the above.
Regarding long term doalers, many are unemployable for various reasons. Health issues, mental or otherwise that may make it difficult for them to get disability. Personality disorders, etc. not all long term doalers are workshy. Should they all be left to fend for themselves?
It’s to our credit, as a nation that we care for all.
Of course there are some that abuse the system. In reality they are the poorer for it. Despite how tough it can be, earning your own living is rewarding.

+1
On my 9-10 months on the dole 9 years ago, I received none of the above benefits and didnt qualify for HAP (RA as it was then) either as t was only for lifers/long term dole people.

All Seeing Eye

Funny thing is most of those in favour of the welfare bonus are usually well meaning college educated professionals who don’t know many people on welfare or don’t see these people in their daily lives. In fact they would probably cross the street to avoid these people where possible.

ELM327

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Funny thing is most of those in favour of the welfare bonus are usually well meaning college educated professionals who don’t know many people on welfare or don’t see these people in their daily lives. In fact they would probably cross the street to avoid these people where possible.

That describes me, but I did have some time living in Ballymun near the old tower blocks 10 years ago and I saw enough then to see all the ways of bleeding the system. Multiple kids, free house after leaving cert, fathers who "dont live there" wink wink etc. Sky dishes outside of every house. Multiple relatively new cars.
All the while I was getting up at 530am to get the first of two buses to get to work. I was probably getting less than they were. While my taxes were going to fund their "wages".


Thankfully nowadays I and most of my social circle have good jobs and are as far removed from the lifers on the dole as can be. But I'm not unaware of how the system is abused by some wasters. I've never forgotten my incredulity at the queues of beer slabs and johnny blue on dole day or childrens allowance day. (The tesco in ballymun shopping centre and the supervalue near the tower bar).

realitykeeper

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Great another dole bashing thread, shove it up your arse.

As a society, Ireland must adapt to live within our means. If we want to pay dole recipients a Christmas bonus fine just as long as we stop collectively living beyond our means and start making serious repayments on the principle of the national debt. I would suggest at least 10 billion per year (over and above the 7 billion or so we are spending on the interest payments).

How should this be funded? If the dole is to remain untouched, capitalists would say by privatizations and spending less on things like the health service. Socialists would say tax the rich. Taxing the rich would ensure a flight of capital. Capital controls would stop inward investment so even a mass seizure of property to raise revenue by sale would only bring in a pittance as property prices plummet in countries where nobody wants to invest.

Of course, legal exemptions can be made exclusively for non residents like the vulture funds (because sometimes some of us do tend to be jealous if one of our own start to do well for themselves).

To make substantial reductions to the national debt, all state assets including the HSE will either have to be sold off or average wages must drop to a euro an hour in which case it would be difficult to pay anything for anything because the untouched dole recipients would be getting nearly three times the average industrial wage

Seriously though, I think low pay (including dole payments) coupled with the abolishment of bankruptcy laws is the way to pay off the national debt and grow the economy.

Mongfinder General

The next recession should be interesting. €28 billion handed out in social benefits from income of approx €76 billion last year. Try cutting welfare when unemployment is at 15%. The time to keep a lid on things is now. The welfare state is monstrous. At least I know that if I lose my job I won’t have to bother my hole looking for one.

All Seeing Eye

Mongfinder General wrote: »

The next recession should be interesting. €28 billion handed out in social benefits from income of approx €76 billion last year. Try cutting welfare when unemployment is at 15%. The time to keep a lid on things is now. The welfare state is monstrous. At least I know that if I lose my job I won’t have to bother my hole looking for one.

Good to see some sense and some stats

Cushie Butterfield

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Well you said you don’t drink so just wanted to test my generalisation. I take it your not on handouts then so your point has no relevance to what I said.

On the subject of handouts:

- Did your mother (god help her) attend anti-natal classes whilst pregnant with you, & if so who paid for them?

- Did your mother avail of public hospital accommodation & professional paediatric services & procedures before, during & after your birth & if so who paid for them?

- Did you receive baby & childhood immunisation & vaccination, & if so who paid for it?

- Did you receive any dental or optical treatment as a child & if so who paid for it?

- Did you avail of primary, secondary or third level education & if so who paid for it?

- Did your mother claim child benefit for you for 18 years & if so, why?

The above are just a few questions that can be posed to you, so maybe when referring to handouts & questioning why any individual avails of ‘handouts’ it might be prudent to ask yourself the same question.

ELM327

Cushie Butterfield wrote: »

On the subject of handouts:

- Did your mother (god help her) attend anti-natal classes whilst pregnant with you, & if so who paid for them?

- Did your mother avail of public hospital accommodation & professional paediatric services & procedures before, during & after your birth & if so who paid for them?

- Did you receive baby & childhood immunisation & vaccination, & if so who paid for it?

- Did you receive any dental or optical treatment as a child & if so who paid for it?

- Did you avail of primary, secondary or third level education & if so who paid for it?

- Did your mother claim child benefit for you for 18 years & if so, why?

The above are just a few questions that can be posed to you, so maybe when referring to handouts & questioning why any individual avails of ‘handouts’ it might be prudent to ask yourself the same question.

That's all well and good but if myself and my partner pay a 6 figure sum in taxation, and receive maybe 10% of that back in Childrens Allowance or some of the other benefits above, that doesn't really count as a "handout".

All Seeing Eye

ELM327 wrote: »

That describes me, but I did have some time living in Ballymun near the old tower blocks 10 years ago and I saw enough then to see all the ways of bleeding the system. Multiple kids, free house after leaving cert, fathers who "dont live there" wink wink etc. Sky dishes outside of every house. Multiple relatively new cars.
All the while I was getting up at 530am to get the first of two buses to get to work. I was probably getting less than they were. While my taxes were going to fund their "wages".


Thankfully nowadays I and most of my social circle have good jobs and are as far removed from the lifers on the dole as can be. But I'm not unaware of how the system is abused by some wasters. I've never forgotten my incredulity at the queues of beer slabs and johnny blue on dole day or childrens allowance day. (The tesco in ballymun shopping centre and the supervalue near the tower bar).

Same here I still see all the tricks most days. A few HAP merchants in our estate are not shy about broadcasting their business. All kids wearing the newest football shirts, sky dishes, trips away, takeaways being delivered, nights out, smart phones for all kids, absent fathers (wink wink), audis, bmws, cash jobs etc etc. Hardly the lives of those on the breadline.

November Golf

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Funny thing is most of those in favour of the welfare bonus are usually well meaning college educated professionals who don’t know many people on welfare or don’t see these people in their daily lives. In fact they would probably cross the street to avoid these people where possible.

Funny thing is most of those that are against the welfare bonus are usually well meaning un-college educated non-professionals who only know one or two people on welfare that they don't like & generalise everyone based on there own bias.

People spend so much time giving out about a small number of people on SW that they don't like, that they don't realise its the same small group of people they are talking about. Most people on SW don't want to be on SW regardless of the payment they are receiving.

People don't choice to be employed, employers choose who they hire & as the old saying goes "its easier to get a job when you have a job".

There are many faults with the SW system including a limited options & supports available to people. The economy of low wage, temporary work & the lack of a genuine phasing for people on SW who go back to working are also factors.

But seriously, stop pretending that become you have a job that pays more (after tax & deductions) than SW that your some kind of victim. Sure people who are working on low wages also have it tough.

Many people that were on SW and went back to work are now in that category too. And of course, as I mentioned before many people on the live register are also working part-time on X's & O's.

By the sheer fact that unemployment rates are falling month to month and have been for a number of years means that more and more people are going back to work which goes against your whole argument.

end of the road

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

I see you are subtly trying to get me off this thread feigning offence just because I am asking a few hard questions.

could you tell us which hard questions you have asked? could you link us to them, as perhapse we may have missed them?

Edgware wrote: »

A gob****e

this is not correct i'm afraid.

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

Funny thing is most of those in favour of the welfare bonus are usually well meaning college educated professionals who don’t know many people on welfare or don’t see these people in their daily lives. In fact they would probably cross the street to avoid these people where possible.

is this really the case? could you inform us of how you would know this information to be the case if possible?

All Seeing Eye

end of the road wrote: »

could you tell us which hard questions you have asked? could you link us to them, as perhapse we may have missed them?



this is not correct i'm afraid.



is this really the case? could you inform us of how you would know this information to be the case if possible?

Can you disprove any of it either? I’m making relevant points based on experience. You and your cohorts are either trying to write me off as a fool or else asking for reports. You are coming back with nothing meaningful and its driving you mad.