Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

Mr.Micro · 25-05-2018 01:37PM

Strazdas wrote: »

No evidence that the Gardai overstepped the mark. When they arrived at the scene, they had no idea if Jastine was alive and in the car with the murderer. I've heard one or two people speculate that when he started stabbing himself, they may have thought he was attacking the girl instead and this would have been a crisis moment for them needing instant action. One bullet suggests they were merely trying to incapacitate him, not kill him.

A bullet to incapacitate, instead of taser or negotiation? One bullet was all it took.

upandcumming · 25-05-2018 01:39PM

Sundew wrote: »

I think you would feel different if you had a family member die at the hands of somebodyelse. It is a blessing for all concerned that the killer of that young lady is no longer with us!

Maybe I would. And I'd be wrong.

wakka12 · 25-05-2018 01:40PM

Its good to hear that the support of the irish people brought the family some level of comfort in their grief. I was also touched by the outpouring of support from the whole country

tara73 · 25-05-2018 01:48PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0525/965978-jastine-valdez/

The family have thanked the Irish people and the Filipino community

that is one amazing, wonderful statement. you could think or expect the parents to be bitter or full of hate now.

but instead some thankful words where you can feel they truly mean it.

I have nothing but admiration for the parents of Jastine.

Strazdas · 25-05-2018 01:52PM

wakka12 wrote: »

Its good to hear that the support of the irish people brought the family some level of comfort in their grief. I was also touched by the outpouring of support from the whole country

Yes, it's lovely to see. You'd want to have a heart of stone not to be upset by this story but the response from Irish people (and the Filipino community of course) has been very touching. It shows Jastine's family and friends that her life meant something and she is not just a statistic.

BattleCorp · 25-05-2018 01:56PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

The guy was the suspect and shot dead before charges or a trial. The justice system is there to make sure an individual gets a fair trial. Advocation of shooting dead suspects is not right, no matter what the individual is suspected of. How can a dead suspect give information if there was a chance the girl was still alive. It's not the USA yet.

He wasn't too interested in the rights of Ms. Valdez. But emotion aside, I've put a logical answer below.

I don't think he was shot dead for the craic of it or to avoid a trial. The detective thought that Ms. Valdez was in the car with him and saw Hennessy with a knife covered in blood. He thought she was in danger and acted as he did with the intention of saving her life. The post-mortem pretty much showed Hennessey was killed by accident. The detective fired one shot into Hennessy's shoulder. That would normally have incapacitated someone but unfortunately killed Hennessy. If the bullet had bounced differently, Hennessy would be getting shoulder surgery and then a fair trial.

That said, back to the emotional part, given that the circumstances turned out as they did, I'm not upset that he died.

Mr.Micro · 25-05-2018 02:15PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

He wasn't too interested in the rights of Ms. Valdez. But emotion aside, I've put a logical answer below.

I don't think he was shot dead for the craic of it or to avoid a trial. The detective thought that Ms. Valdez was in the car with him and saw Hennessy with a knife covered in blood. He thought she was in danger and acted as he did with the intention of saving her life. The post-mortem pretty much showed Hennessey was killed by accident. The detective fired one shot into Hennessy's shoulder. That would normally have incapacitated someone but unfortunately killed Hennessy. If the bullet had bounced differently, Hennessy would be getting shoulder surgery and then a fair trial.

That said, back to the emotional part, given that the circumstances turned out as they did, I'm not upset that he died.

Neither am I, but at that point Justine had still not been found and he was the link to vital information.

DrumSteve · 25-05-2018 02:17PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Neither am I, but at that point Justine had still not been found and he was the link to vital information.

If she hadn't been found, surely it was only logical the detective in question might think she was in the car in the process of being stabbed.

Enzokk · 25-05-2018 02:18PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Very upsetting listening to this.

The two criminologists / experts reckon it was a completely random attack and that he wouldn't have planned it, the 'red mist' would have descended on him at the last moment.

Poor Jastine was incredibly unlucky to get off the bus at that very moment, she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The two guys reckon though the creep would simply have gone after another woman and we'd be discussing some other poor girl being murdered instead. It's terrible for Jastine's family to know just how random and unlucky she was though, if she'd arrived a few minutes later she might still be alive now.

That is grim. I feel so sorry for the parents knowing this. They will wrestle with the thought that 5 seconds is all it could have taken and their daughter could have escaped his attention. That would keep me awake at the quiet times. Hopefully they are able to find some peace from here on in.

iamwhoiam · 25-05-2018 02:19PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Neither am I, but at that point Justine had still not been found and he was the link to vital information.

Do you not understand yet that the shot he fired was to Hennessys shoulder and not intended to kill ? The fact it ricocheted into an artery was a fluke .

BattleCorp · 25-05-2018 02:22PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Neither am I, but at that point Justine had still not been found and he was the link to vital information.

As they say, hindsight is 20:20. It's easy to be wise after the event. Different story in the heat of the moment. Decisions have to be made so quickly that they are almost instinctive. There's often no time to chew through all the different possibilities.

The detective said that he thought Justine was in the car with Hennessy. He saw a knife and thought that she was in danger. He took the action he thought was necessary to protect Justine.

DMcL1971 · 25-05-2018 02:37PM

The detective shot him in the shoulder in order to cause him to drop the knife that he was holding. I don't think it matters whether he thought Hennessy was going to harm himself or a Garda near the car or Jastine if she was in the car. The purpose of the shot was to stop him from using the knife on anyone. It was not the detectives intention to kill Hennessy.

Strazdas · 25-05-2018 02:42PM

Enzokk wrote: »

That is grim. I feel so sorry for the parents knowing this. They will wrestle with the thought that 5 seconds is all it could have taken and their daughter could have escaped his attention. That would keep me awake at the quiet times. Hopefully they are able to find some peace from here on in.

I know, it's horrible to even think about, that poor girl was incredibly unlucky, a complete fluke that she and the maniac were in the same place at the same moment. She comes along a few minutes later or earlier and she gets to live a normal life.

Having said that, the creep would probably have murdered some other girl instead, either the same day or some other time soon.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 25-05-2018 02:46PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

A bullet to incapacitate, instead of taser or negotiation? One bullet was all it took.

He was armed, clearly dangerous as he was taking into himself with the blade and reached for something else. He also kidnapped and murdered someone a mere 24 hours beforehand.
The onus was not on the Gardai to pussyfoot around him

TomOnBoard · 25-05-2018 03:34PM

There was a report in the Times today that said that, because both the perpetrator and victim are now dead, there is no longer a criminal investigation underway. The current investigation is now focusing on informing the inquest in due course.

Is this true? If so, does that perhaps explain why AGS has been relatively quiet in its public statements over the past few days? Then, will we have to wait until the inquest(s) to find out what happened leading up to the abduction and murder?

Mr.Micro · 25-05-2018 03:34PM

Sydney Hallowed Shellfish wrote: »

He was armed, clearly dangerous as he was taking into himself with the blade and reached for something else. He also kidnapped and murdered someone a mere 24 hours beforehand.
The onus was not on the Gardai to pussyfoot around him

At the time, no matter about hindsight, he was still a suspect. The pieces were fitted in after. It's not about pussyfooting around him. It's doing the right thing by the law. That is the point. As I said in a previous post, he had vital information. It's a risky strategy firing a shot into a van when the victim might also be in it.

BattleCorp · 25-05-2018 03:44PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

It's a risky strategy firing a shot into a van when the victim might also be in it.

It's a risky business dealing with a psycho with a knife too.

Strazdas · 25-05-2018 03:47PM

Some encouraging news from the Consul to the Philippines Mark Congdon. He told RTE Drivetime he has just come from being with Jastine's parents and they are "improving every day". He says he has been showing them videos and photos of the vigils around Ireland and telling them about the funding efforts and they are really touched.

Sounds like he is doing a fantastic job for them and is personally overseeing all the numerous arrangements to get her back home.

Riskymove · 25-05-2018 04:13PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

It's a risky strategy firing a shot into a van when the victim might also be in it.

Hindsight!! The guy can't win

If it turned out that the suspect used the knife to kill the victim in the van while guards looked on people would aks why they didn't shoot him

Mr.Micro · 25-05-2018 04:23PM

Riskymove wrote: »

Hindsight!! The guy can't win

If it turned out that the suspect used the knife to kill the victim in the van while guards looked on people would aks why they didn't shoot him

That did not happen. Let us stick to what we know.

25-05-2018 04:34PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

That did not happen. Let us stick to what we know.

Maybe you should take your own advice

25-05-2018 04:34PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

That did not happen. Let us stick to what we know.

Maybe you should take your own advice

Mr.Micro · 25-05-2018 04:36PM

bubblypop wrote: »

Maybe you should take your own advice

Which is ?

Riskymove · 25-05-2018 04:39PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

That did not happen. .

How do you know that they knew she wasn't in the van?

Sunflower 27 · 25-05-2018 05:05PM

Riskymove wrote: »

How do you know that they knew she wasn't in the van?

I'd imagine he would have seen her if she was. I'm sure they assessed the situation, not blindly shoot into a van with potentially innocent victims inside.

RobbieMD · 25-05-2018 05:09PM

Mr.Micro wrote: »

A bullet to incapacitate, instead of taser or negotiation? One bullet was all it took.

The Garda who shot him didn't have a taser though. At most pepper spray, a baton and his firearm. You can be sure he attempted negotiation first and then ramped up his force options. Using a baton would've been impractical in an enclosed space like a car. Pepper spray doesn't stop a knife being swung wildly. His only other option was to use his firearm. The aim isn't to kill but to stop the threat. The Garda knows he must account for each round fired and by all accounts, one round was sufficient and measured.

tara73 · 25-05-2018 05:41PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Some encouraging news from the Consul to the Philippines Mark Congdon. He told RTE Drivetime he has just come from being with Jastine's parents and they are "improving every day". He says he has been showing them videos and photos of the vigils around Ireland and telling them about the funding efforts and they are really touched.

Sounds like he is doing a fantastic job for them and is personally overseeing all the numerous arrangements to get her back home.

sorry if I missed it being stated already, but are her parents not here in Ireland? So she was here all by herself?? Or did she had other family members here?

tara73 · 25-05-2018 05:46PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Some encouraging news from the Consul to the Philippines Mark Congdon. He told RTE Drivetime he has just come from being with Jastine's parents and they are "improving every day". He says he has been showing them videos and photos of the vigils around Ireland and telling them about the funding efforts and they are really touched.

sorry, double post, see post before

TomOnBoard · 25-05-2018 06:10PM

tara73 wrote: »

sorry if I missed it being stated already, but are her parents not here in Ireland? So she was here all by herself?? Or did she had other family members here?

Parents are in Ireland. Mark Congdon is the consul of, not to, the Phillipines in Ireland

Strazdas · 25-05-2018 06:16PM

tara73 wrote: »

sorry if I missed it being stated already, but are her parents not here in Ireland? So she was here all by herself?? Or did she had other family members here?

Sorry, I should have said Consul 'of' the Philippines of course. Jastine's parents are indeed living in Ireland and have been for many years. In fact, they are the reason she moved to Ireland (to join them, having lived with her grandparents in the Philippines previously).

Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

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