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Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

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    #2102
    upandcumming
    Registered Users Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭upandcumming


    I don't know if I am shocked that some people are glad that this animal was shot dead, but I am disappointed.

    No matter what anyone has done, we have a justice system in place to deal with crimes, and it doesn't involve shooting dead an accused. While many don't agree with 'weak' sentences, myself included, this is the best we have to deal with criminals. No one should be happy that this person was shot dead. I feel sorry for the Garda in question.


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    #2103
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,762 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    upandcumming wrote: »
    I don't know if I am shocked that some people are glad that this animal was shot dead, but I am disappointed.

    No matter what anyone has done, we have a justice system in place to deal with crimes, and it doesn't involve shooting dead an accused. While many don't agree with 'weak' sentences, myself included, this is the best we have to deal with criminals. No one should be happy that this person was shot dead. I feel sorry for the Garda in question.

    Would you prefer that your tax was spent to look after this guy for the next 15 or so years (because that's about all he'd serve, if even) and then for him to be released back into society to possibly do something similar again?

    Would you be happy if he was released into a house beside where you live?

    Nah, I for one am happy that there is zero chance of him reoffending again. But I do agree with you about the detective who shot him. I do feel sorry for him.


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    #2104
    upandcumming
    Registered Users Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭upandcumming


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Would you prefer that your tax was spent to look after this guy for the next 15 or so years (because that's about all he'd serve, if even) and then for him to be released back into society to possibly do something similar again?

    Would you be happy if he was released into a house beside where you live?

    Nah, I for one am happy that there is zero chance of him reoffending again. But I do agree with you about the detective who shot him. I do feel sorry for him.

    100% happy for my taxes to look after this guy for the next 15, 20, 40 years if it takes it. This is the justice system we have in place, and while there are flaws, plenty of them, it is the best system we have. I certainly wouldn't be mad about the idea of living next to him. But this is not what we're talking about here.


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    #2105
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,050 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    upandcumming wrote: »
    I don't know if I am shocked that some people are glad that this animal was shot dead, but I am disappointed.

    No matter what anyone has done, we have a justice system in place to deal with crimes, and it doesn't involve shooting dead an accused. While many don't agree with 'weak' sentences, myself included, this is the best we have to deal with criminals. No one should be happy that this person was shot dead. I feel sorry for the Garda in question.


    FFS, not speaking foto myself specifically and because this death has saddened me so so much that I have tried avoiding focusing on the b#stard or psychoanalysing him, but people are perfectly entitled to be glad this guy is dead.
    I think the Garda will be strong enough eventually to not feel as bad as people think he is feeling. This shooting is a freak anomaly


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    #2106
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    upandcumming wrote: »
    I don't know if I am shocked that some people are glad that this animal was shot dead, but I am disappointed.

    No matter what anyone has done, we have a justice system in place to deal with crimes, and it doesn't involve shooting dead an accused. While many don't agree with 'weak' sentences, myself included, this is the best we have to deal with criminals. No one should be happy that this person was shot dead. I feel sorry for the Garda in question.

    I dont feel glad and I dont feel sorry I just dont give a toss that the man is dead .No one set out to shoot him dead so I think we can all safely say it was an accident and he died .Tough ****e , you go out and grab a young girl and manually strangle her then you have to accept you might just get shot dead .I could not care less that he is dead but I do care that some Garda is now suffering because of him


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    #2107
    MarkY91
    Registered Users Posts: 7,067 ✭✭✭MarkY91


    upandcumming wrote: »
    I don't know if I am shocked that some people are glad that this animal was shot dead, but I am disappointed.

    No matter what anyone has done, we have a justice system in place to deal with crimes, and it doesn't involve shooting dead an accused. While many don't agree with 'weak' sentences, myself included, this is the best we have to deal with criminals. No one should be happy that this person was shot dead. I feel sorry for the Garda in question.

    I'm so annoyed that he is dead as he got an easy way out. I wish he served life in prison, getting the **** kicked out of him on a daily basis then eventually killing himself. Then he would have felt 0000.1% of the pain he has caused that poor girl and her family.


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    #2108
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0525/965978-jastine-valdez/

    The family have thanked the Irish people and the Filipino community


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    #2109
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,306 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I think what is so upsetting about this case is that being abducted off the street by a random maniac, driven to a remote location and then brutally murdered is probably every person's worst fear (or one of them anyway).

    The fact that poor Jastine seemed so vulnerable and harmless makes the case doubly upsetting.


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    #2110
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    upandcumming wrote: »
    I don't know if I am shocked that some people are glad that this animal was shot dead, but I am disappointed.

    No matter what anyone has done, we have a justice system in place to deal with crimes, and it doesn't involve shooting dead an accused. While many don't agree with 'weak' sentences, myself included, this is the best we have to deal with criminals. No one should be happy that this person was shot dead. I feel sorry for the Garda in question.

    The guy was the suspect and shot dead before charges or a trial. The justice system is there to make sure an individual gets a fair trial. Advocation of shooting dead suspects is not right, no matter what the individual is suspected of. How can a dead suspect give information if there was a chance the girl was still alive. It's not the USA yet.


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    #2111
    Sundew
    Registered Users Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Sundew


    upandcumming wrote: »
    I don't know if I am shocked that some people are glad that this animal was shot dead, but I am disappointed.

    No matter what anyone has done, we have a justice system in place to deal with crimes, and it doesn't involve shooting dead an accused. While many don't agree with 'weak' sentences, myself included, this is the best we have to deal with criminals. No one should be happy that this person was shot dead. I feel sorry for the Garda in question.

    I think you would feel different if you had a family member die at the hands of somebodyelse. It is a blessing for all concerned that the killer of that young lady is no longer with us!


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    #2112
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,306 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    The guy was the suspect and shot dead before charges or a trial. The justice system is there to make sure an individual gets a fair trial. Advocation of shooting dead suspects is not right, no matter what the individual is suspected of. How can a dead suspect give information if there was a chance the girl was still alive. It's not the USA yet.

    No evidence that the Gardai overstepped the mark. When they arrived at the scene, they had no idea if Jastine was alive and in the car with the murderer. I've heard one or two people speculate that when he started stabbing himself, they may have thought he was attacking the girl instead and this would have been a crisis moment for them needing instant action. One bullet suggests they were merely trying to incapacitate him, not kill him.


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    #2113
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Strazdas wrote: »
    No evidence that the Gardai overstepped the mark. When they arrived at the scene, they had no idea if Jastine was alive and in the car with the murderer. I've heard one or two people speculate that when he started stabbing himself, they may have thought he was attacking the girl instead and this would have been a crisis moment for them needing instant action. One bullet suggests they were merely trying to incapacitate him, not kill him.

    A bullet to incapacitate, instead of taser or negotiation? One bullet was all it took.


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    #2114
    upandcumming
    Registered Users Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭upandcumming


    Sundew wrote: »
    I think you would feel different if you had a family member die at the hands of somebodyelse. It is a blessing for all concerned that the killer of that young lady is no longer with us!

    Maybe I would. And I'd be wrong.


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    #2115
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Its good to hear that the support of the irish people brought the family some level of comfort in their grief. I was also touched by the outpouring of support from the whole country


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    #2116
    tara73
    Registered Users Posts: 2,341 ✭✭✭tara73


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0525/965978-jastine-valdez/

    The family have thanked the Irish people and the Filipino community

    that is one amazing, wonderful statement. you could think or expect the parents to be bitter or full of hate now.

    but instead some thankful words where you can feel they truly mean it.

    I have nothing but admiration for the parents of Jastine.


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    #2117
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,306 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Its good to hear that the support of the irish people brought the family some level of comfort in their grief. I was also touched by the outpouring of support from the whole country

    Yes, it's lovely to see. You'd want to have a heart of stone not to be upset by this story but the response from Irish people (and the Filipino community of course) has been very touching. It shows Jastine's family and friends that her life meant something and she is not just a statistic.


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    #2118
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,762 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    The guy was the suspect and shot dead before charges or a trial. The justice system is there to make sure an individual gets a fair trial. Advocation of shooting dead suspects is not right, no matter what the individual is suspected of. How can a dead suspect give information if there was a chance the girl was still alive. It's not the USA yet.


    He wasn't too interested in the rights of Ms. Valdez. But emotion aside, I've put a logical answer below.

    I don't think he was shot dead for the craic of it or to avoid a trial. The detective thought that Ms. Valdez was in the car with him and saw Hennessy with a knife covered in blood. He thought she was in danger and acted as he did with the intention of saving her life. The post-mortem pretty much showed Hennessey was killed by accident. The detective fired one shot into Hennessy's shoulder. That would normally have incapacitated someone but unfortunately killed Hennessy. If the bullet had bounced differently, Hennessy would be getting shoulder surgery and then a fair trial.

    That said, back to the emotional part, given that the circumstances turned out as they did, I'm not upset that he died.


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    #2119
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    He wasn't too interested in the rights of Ms. Valdez. But emotion aside, I've put a logical answer below.

    I don't think he was shot dead for the craic of it or to avoid a trial. The detective thought that Ms. Valdez was in the car with him and saw Hennessy with a knife covered in blood. He thought she was in danger and acted as he did with the intention of saving her life. The post-mortem pretty much showed Hennessey was killed by accident. The detective fired one shot into Hennessy's shoulder. That would normally have incapacitated someone but unfortunately killed Hennessy. If the bullet had bounced differently, Hennessy would be getting shoulder surgery and then a fair trial.

    That said, back to the emotional part, given that the circumstances turned out as they did, I'm not upset that he died.

    Neither am I, but at that point Justine had still not been found and he was the link to vital information.


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    #2120
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 10,799 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Neither am I, but at that point Justine had still not been found and he was the link to vital information.

    If she hadn't been found, surely it was only logical the detective in question might think she was in the car in the process of being stabbed.


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    #2121
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,608 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Very upsetting listening to this.

    The two criminologists / experts reckon it was a completely random attack and that he wouldn't have planned it, the 'red mist' would have descended on him at the last moment.

    Poor Jastine was incredibly unlucky to get off the bus at that very moment, she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The two guys reckon though the creep would simply have gone after another woman and we'd be discussing some other poor girl being murdered instead. It's terrible for Jastine's family to know just how random and unlucky she was though, if she'd arrived a few minutes later she might still be alive now.


    That is grim. I feel so sorry for the parents knowing this. They will wrestle with the thought that 5 seconds is all it could have taken and their daughter could have escaped his attention. That would keep me awake at the quiet times. Hopefully they are able to find some peace from here on in.


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    #2122
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Neither am I, but at that point Justine had still not been found and he was the link to vital information.

    Do you not understand yet that the shot he fired was to Hennessys shoulder and not intended to kill ? The fact it ricocheted into an artery was a fluke .


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    #2123
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,762 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Neither am I, but at that point Justine had still not been found and he was the link to vital information.

    As they say, hindsight is 20:20. It's easy to be wise after the event. Different story in the heat of the moment. Decisions have to be made so quickly that they are almost instinctive. There's often no time to chew through all the different possibilities.

    The detective said that he thought Justine was in the car with Hennessy. He saw a knife and thought that she was in danger. He took the action he thought was necessary to protect Justine.


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    #2124
    DMcL1971
    Registered Users Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭DMcL1971


    The detective shot him in the shoulder in order to cause him to drop the knife that he was holding. I don't think it matters whether he thought Hennessy was going to harm himself or a Garda near the car or Jastine if she was in the car. The purpose of the shot was to stop him from using the knife on anyone. It was not the detectives intention to kill Hennessy.


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    #2125
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,306 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Enzokk wrote: »
    That is grim. I feel so sorry for the parents knowing this. They will wrestle with the thought that 5 seconds is all it could have taken and their daughter could have escaped his attention. That would keep me awake at the quiet times. Hopefully they are able to find some peace from here on in.

    I know, it's horrible to even think about, that poor girl was incredibly unlucky, a complete fluke that she and the maniac were in the same place at the same moment. She comes along a few minutes later or earlier and she gets to live a normal life.

    Having said that, the creep would probably have murdered some other girl instead, either the same day or some other time soon.


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    #2126
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    A bullet to incapacitate, instead of taser or negotiation? One bullet was all it took.
    He was armed, clearly dangerous as he was taking into himself with the blade and reached for something else. He also kidnapped and murdered someone a mere 24 hours beforehand.
    The onus was not on the Gardai to pussyfoot around him


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    #2127
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    There was a report in the Times today that said that, because both the perpetrator and victim are now dead, there is no longer a criminal investigation underway. The current investigation is now focusing on informing the inquest in due course.

    Is this true? If so, does that perhaps explain why AGS has been relatively quiet in its public statements over the past few days? Then, will we have to wait until the inquest(s) to find out what happened leading up to the abduction and murder?


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    #2128
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Sydney Hallowed Shellfish wrote: »
    He was armed, clearly dangerous as he was taking into himself with the blade and reached for something else. He also kidnapped and murdered someone a mere 24 hours beforehand.
    The onus was not on the Gardai to pussyfoot around him

    At the time, no matter about hindsight, he was still a suspect. The pieces were fitted in after. It's not about pussyfooting around him. It's doing the right thing by the law. That is the point. As I said in a previous post, he had vital information. It's a risky strategy firing a shot into a van when the victim might also be in it.


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    #2129
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,762 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    It's a risky strategy firing a shot into a van when the victim might also be in it.

    It's a risky business dealing with a psycho with a knife too.


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    #2130
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,306 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Some encouraging news from the Consul to the Philippines Mark Congdon. He told RTE Drivetime he has just come from being with Jastine's parents and they are "improving every day". He says he has been showing them videos and photos of the vigils around Ireland and telling them about the funding efforts and they are really touched.

    Sounds like he is doing a fantastic job for them and is personally overseeing all the numerous arrangements to get her back home.


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    #2131
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    It's a risky strategy firing a shot into a van when the victim might also be in it.

    Hindsight!! The guy can't win

    If it turned out that the suspect used the knife to kill the victim in the van while guards looked on people would aks why they didn't shoot him


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