Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

MarkY91 · 23-05-2018 03:38PM

I'm told by my brother's workmates seen him at that pub the day of the killing buying cocaine.

sightband · 23-05-2018 03:38PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Can I just ask why you seem to think we are all entitled to every detail of a murder enquiry ?

every detail? did you see the bit where i mentioned it’s clear as mud as to what happened. there’s reporting and muck on the likes of this thread that will have a profound impact on both families, a bit of clarification from authorities on what actually happened will put a lot of it to bed. even all the **** about congratulating the garda from everyone on this for taking down this nutter, scum blah blah blah, the latest is that it was an unfortunate ricochet....imagine how the garda feels that that was supposedly not his intent not to mention all the subsequent investigation he will go through.

sometimes clarity and issuing statements helps, again not every detail which i never mentioned.

Amalgam · 23-05-2018 03:40PM

It might be a Godsend for certain people in his life.. some partners can gaslight/isolate their wives/husbands in very subtle ways that are very very difficult to pick up on, outside of the family.

The death of Jastine Valdez, followed so soon after that of Ana Kriegel, just leaves you feeling grotty inside, your mind gets bogged down in a mire, if you pause to think a bit too much..

jiltloop · 23-05-2018 03:55PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Ther have been lots of useful views given in the preceding posts dealing with a range of perspectives on mental illness, mad vs bad, cultural predispositions and a few others. I'm going back to Hennessy's heinous act. We all should want to know what set this off, and I'm sure that we will hear lots of background information on him and his character, his actions and activities, and indeed whether or not he may have been involved in previous crimes. Some of that information will tell us things about him that were inherent in his make-up, that contributed to his appalling attack. Some of that information will also tell us things about him that came from his use/abuse of drugs/alcohol. It's that last piece we really need to know about. Why? Because IF that use/abuse contributed to a state of mind where he was not normal and became a monster- for however long that state existed - and in that state of mind he attacked, abducted and murdered an innocent young woman, we need to know!

We're now hearing about Hennessey buying coke on Saturday night in the pub, shortly after the murder, and returning for more some hours later. The Gardai are investigating an alleged contact with him in an agitated state on Killiney Beach on Sunday, and later a super-aggressive stance prior to him being shot. He is alleged to have ended up banging on the front door of a stranger's house some weeks ago and when confronted, was described as being 'wired'. All of this behaviour (and that's only the few bits that have been reported) is surely abnormal and is very typical of someone who is using cocaine or amphetamines or other stimulants. And that's my focus here.

He's dead, and many would say good riddance, although most of us would also be sad for his family, if we have any sadness left to spare from our far deeper feelings for Jastine and her family. IF this tragedy has resulted wholly or partly from drug abuse, then it may educate us further on the deep and evil risks associated with cocaine and other stimulant abuse. If we do learn from this, then perhaps some good can be extricated from the evil that was done. If we don't, how many more such dreadful murders will we see?

I think you're really quite wide of the mark here. Drug abuse may end up being a small contributing factor but the main factor is that this was obviously a messed up/evil/mentally ill individual who committed these acts.

You come across as having an axe to grind and you're stuffing this whole awful event in a narrative that suits a chip you have on shoulder for whatever reason.

kunst nugget · 23-05-2018 04:04PM

Can't say I've ever seen the likes of cocaine do anything up but just turn up the volume knob on a person's personality. It usually got turned up from quiet to arsehole. I never saw it changing a person's underlying personality.

iamwhoiam · 23-05-2018 04:07PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Can't say I've ever seen the likes of cocaine do anything up but just turn up the volume knob on a person's personality. It usually got turned up from quiet to arsehole. I never saw it changing a person's underlying personality.

It can cause a cocaine induced psychosis . I have seen it first hand in a horrendous incident and assault on my home by a stranger .

kunst nugget · 23-05-2018 04:11PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

It can cause a cocaine induced psychosis . I have seen it first hand in a horrendous incident and assault on my home by a stranger .

What happened if you don't mind me asking?

iamwhoiam · 23-05-2018 04:12PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

What happened if you don't mind me asking?

I honestly would prefer not to , it is still very raw .

TomOnBoard · 23-05-2018 04:18PM

jiltloop wrote: »

I think you're really quite wide of the mark here. Drug abuse may end up being a small contributing factor but the main factor is that this was obviously a messed up/evil/mentally ill individual who committed these acts.

Did you see that I used the word If? Oh, and I capitalised it for emphasis! Twice!!

I also said that I was focusing on the drug/alcohol abuse angle, other angles being well enough handled by many other posters. Why would anyone have a problem with that factor being considered in this case? After all, NO-ONE has very much of a clue as to how this character ticked, and what led to his becoming a monster. So my attempt at putting a perspective on the table is surely as worthy of consideration as any and all other perspectives???

jiltloop wrote: »

You come across as having an axe to grind and you're stuffing this whole awful event in a narrative that suits a chip you have on shoulder for whatever reason.

When I was in school many years ago, I learned that, during a discussion, however heated, you play the ball and not the man!!

Oh, and for info I am extremely well-balanced. I have a chip on BOTH shoulders!!

;-)

optogirl · 23-05-2018 04:23PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Can't say I've ever seen the likes of cocaine do anything up but just turn up the volume knob on a person's personality. It usually got turned up from quiet to arsehole. I never saw it changing a person's underlying personality.

the volume knob...or the knob volume?:D

optogirl · 23-05-2018 04:24PM

wexie wrote: »

you're confusing correlation and causation.

Travellers also tend to have more children than settled people.

Should we draw the link between people who have more than average children and people who commit more than average crimes?

No not at all - I thought the question was being asked as to whether there were higher instances of bad mental health among travellers.

Hurrache · 23-05-2018 04:32PM

kingofclay wrote: »

In the case of the Columbine massacre, the two shooters exhibit contrasting psychological states. One of them was inherently evil and beyond help while the other was driven mad who could have been helped and put on the right path. According to JBP anyway.

DaveTheLad wrote: »

Without going off topic, thats not exactly true. They both had mad/bad traits but neither were beyond help at all. Theres way more to it than that

One was genuinely classed a psychopath, the other had depression. It was far from a black and white issue as to why the massacre played out as it did.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/20/columbine.myths/

weldoninhio · 23-05-2018 04:39PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

It can cause a cocaine induced psychosis . I have seen it first hand in a horrendous incident and assault on my home by a stranger .

I’ve seen it first hand, as the one attacked by someone in a coke induced psychosis.

Strazdas · 23-05-2018 04:47PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Can't say I've ever seen the likes of cocaine do anything up but just turn up the volume knob on a person's personality. It usually got turned up from quiet to arsehole. I never saw it changing a person's underlying personality.

Yes, it's not going to turn a calm and peace loving person into a cold blooded killer. At most, it might make them a bit manic and hyper and louder than normal.

Grayson · 23-05-2018 04:51PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

It can cause a cocaine induced psychosis . I have seen it first hand in a horrendous incident and assault on my home by a stranger .

Especially when it's aided by alcohol.

I mentioned it before but I honestly don't know if we'll ever know what happened to him. Was he a normal guy and the drugs/drink messed him up. Was he always a sociopath/psychopath? Was it some combination or something else entirely? We may find some solutions to those questions more plausible than others but we may never actually know.

BattleCorp · 23-05-2018 05:03PM

Grayson wrote: »

Especially when it's aided by alcohol.

I mentioned it before but I honestly don't know if we'll ever know what happened to him. Was he a normal guy and the drugs/drink messed him up. Was he always a sociopath/psychopath? Was it some combination or something else entirely? We may find some solutions to those questions more plausible than others but we may never actually know.

My Dad used to have a saying.

"What's in sober, comes out drunk".

There's some truth in that.

DaveTheLad · 23-05-2018 05:07PM

Hurrache wrote: »

One was genuinely classed a psychopath, the other had depression. It was far from a black and white issue as to why the massacre played out as it did.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/20/columbine.myths/

He was only classed a psychopath after he had died by his writings, which he actually wrote with the intention they would give him that image because he knew they would be revealed after the event

iamwhoiam · 23-05-2018 05:07PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

I’ve seen it first hand, as the one attacked by someone in a coke induced psychosis.

Sorry to hear that and hope you are ok . I was very lucky not to have been harmed myself

chicorytip · 23-05-2018 05:20PM

Raging_Ninja wrote:

I find it interesting that you keep ignoring the Honduras example and I will continue to urge you to look it up as it show how quickly things can go terrifyingly wrong. The google search terms are "honduras police vs knife video". The video is on youtube.

I think it's Nicaragua you are referring to not Honduras. A man - Etcheverrio was his name - brandishing what looked like a hunting knife. The (armed) police in that incident clearly had no idea how to correctly deal with the situation. Another issue is the type of weaponry the Gardai have at their disposal. I presume tasers or stun guns would be effective enough in disabling a suspect in order for him to be disarmed and arrested.

Captain Obvious · 23-05-2018 05:23PM

chicorytip wrote: »

I think it's Nicaragua you are referring to not Honduras. A man - Etcheverrio was his name - brandishing what looked like a hunting knife. The (armed) police in that incident clearly had no idea how to correctly deal with the situation. Another issue is the type of weaponry the Gardai have at their disposal. I presume tasers or stun guns would be effective enough in disabling a suspect in order for him to be disarmed and arrested.

You wouldn't use a taser on a person attacking someone with a knife because if it wasn't effective that person would be ****ed. And some armed Gardaí do carry tasers.

kunst nugget · 23-05-2018 05:33PM

I read this article years ago about cops and knives - http://www.those-who-serve.com/tag/knife-wounds/ - don't look if you're squeamish.

I had no issue with hearing about a cop/guard fatally shooting someone with a knife after reading it.

Strazdas · 23-05-2018 05:44PM

Jastine's fund has gone over the €100,000 mark. Someone (anonymous) donated €5000 in the last few minutes.

BattleCorp · 23-05-2018 05:47PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

I read this article years ago about cops and knives - http://www.those-who-serve.com/tag/knife-wounds/ - don't look if you're squeamish.

I had no issue with hearing about a cop/guard fatally shooting someone with a knife after reading it.

I'm squarely behind the actions of that detective. He did what he had to do. And I've no problems with that.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 23-05-2018 06:09PM

The Gardai have family to go home to, and an entire life of their own outside the work they do in difficult circumstances. If there is any perceived threat to their lives then they should not be taking a risk with their own lives, risking leaving their own children without a parent, in order to protect the armed attackers life.

Don’t complain the fire you’re playing with burns you. If you’re armed, you’re a threat to life and if you don’t disarm, or make sudden movements and alarm an armed officer, and in that split second it comes down to the guard or the attacker, then it should be the guards life that’s priority 100 times over. Don’t want to be killed? Don’t carry weapons, and comply with direction, simple as.

mynamejeff · 23-05-2018 06:31PM

http://www.thejournal.ie/valdez-hennessy-4027752-May2018/

i said something along theses lines yesterday and it "seems " it was deleted

23-05-2018 06:39PM

The Nal wrote: »

Possible I guess.

Being a bad/evil person and committing bad/evil acts is a mental illness.

Not necessarily. Both psychopathy and sociopathy fall under the diagnosis of anti-social personality disorder. Psychopaths are born that way. It's not an illness but a, shall we say, dangerous personality type.

Pawwed Rig · 23-05-2018 07:38PM

mynamejeff wrote: »

i said something along theses lines yesterday and it "seems " it was deleted

no you didn't. I just checked all of the reviewed posts and you never mentioned friends of his

AVFC.Stephen · 23-05-2018 08:03PM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

no you didn't. I just checked all of the reviewed posts and you never mentioned friends of his

I don't normally post and while I understand some folks are irritating as I have not really followed threads as much as this one. But do moderators need to come across so strict? I understand this is off topic but it is just a forum after all. I'm not saying the chap was correct or was wrong but your post also looks like it's trying to embarrass the guys credentials. Maybe he made a mistake or maybe I read your post wrong

sightband · 23-05-2018 08:05PM

sightband wrote: »

every detail? did you see the bit where i mentioned it’s clear as mud as to what happened. there’s reporting and muck on the likes of this thread that will have a profound impact on both families, a bit of clarification from authorities on what actually happened will put a lot of it to bed. even all the **** about congratulating the garda from everyone on this for taking down this nutter, scum blah blah blah, the latest is that it was an unfortunate ricochet....imagine how the garda feels that that was supposedly not his intent not to mention all the subsequent investigation he will go through.

sometimes clarity and issuing statements helps, again not every detail which i never mentioned.

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

no you didn't. I just checked all of the reviewed posts and you never mentioned friends of his

well what did he say because someone saying they mentioned something along the lines of something and now you saying theynever mentioned friends doesn’t really have much to do with much.

Pawwed Rig · 23-05-2018 08:11PM

AVFC.Stephen wrote: »

I don't normally post and while I understand some folks are irritating as I have not really followed threads as much as this one. But do moderators need to come across so strict? I understand this is off topic but it is just a forum after all. I'm not saying the chap was correct or was wrong but your post also looks like it's trying to embarrass the guys credentials. Maybe he made a mistake or maybe I read your post wrong

Yeah maybe I am coming across badly however if you had seen the amount of posts containing inaccurate information, lies, fantasy, trolling etc in the last 24 hours you would be shocked. We have said that there is to be no speculation on the thread which to be fair the majority have not done but unfortunately the few are set on posting whatever they want.
This guy is making the claim essentially that the mods got it wrong by deleting his 'facts' however what he actually posted was very different to the article and has not been backed up anywhere.

Anyway apologies if I came off gruffly.

Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

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