Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

strandroad · 23-05-2018 10:58AM

The Nal wrote: »

He tried to break into some random house a few weeks ago and was chased away.

He abducted and murdered a girl at random in broad daylight.

He was found by the police trying to stab himself to death with a stanley knife in his car in broad daylight.

These aren't the actions of someone with a healthy mindset.

That's what psychopaths do though. They feed their entitlement, and protect their ego when cornered, even if it means self-destruction.

kingofclay · 23-05-2018 11:02AM

I don't think he'd write sorry before killing himself if he was a psychopath.

jiltloop · 23-05-2018 11:06AM

The Nal wrote: »

He tried to break into some random house a few weeks ago and was chased away.

He abducted and murdered a girl at random in broad daylight.

He was found by the police trying to stab himself to death with a stanley knife in his car in broad daylight.

These aren't the actions of someone with a healthy mindset.

Seems the gardai may not have shot him in the head. They shot him in the shoulder and it hit an artery.

http://www.thejournal.ie/garda-mark-hennessy-4029195-May2018/

The video is apparently from a few weeks ago in the Martello in Bray. This photo is apparently from Saturday night in The Ramblers Rest in Ballybrack.

Clearly he didn't have a healthy mindset but that doesn't mean that he had mental health issues. Why the urge to associate his actions with mental health issues?

Get Real · 23-05-2018 11:07AM

Textronic wrote: »

Do the gardai have enough expertise to deal rapidly with these situations ?

A different situation but I recall a knife attacker was shot dead minutes after appearing on a London bridge.

How was he able to go out socializing that night?

Point re London attacker-yeah because he was still at the bridge and a call came in about it. Are you suggesting if I rang in about a knife wielding stabbed in a central city centre location there wouldn't be a car there in minutes?

How was he able to go out socialising that night? Well what would you have done? Released a picture of him and his name during a live situation in order to panic him and make drastic decisions? We unfortunately saw what results his panic yielded. And many posters in the early beginnings of this thread were calling for him to be identified immediately.

If your idea was to somehow throw 25 cars on a search of possibly anywhere at the time, you'd have absolutely zero police coverage for the entire of Dublin on a Saturday night.

So what was your solution? Because anywhere I look for one, it seems to be confronted by either the realities of real life, or clouded by hindsight in a could've, would've, should've mess.

lawred2 · 23-05-2018 11:08AM

kingofclay wrote: »

I don't think he'd write sorry before killing himself if he was a psychopath.

Why not?

A pyschopath would most definitely write something self serving that they didn't mean.

kingofclay · 23-05-2018 11:09AM

Hmmm, not long self-indulgent spiel, just 1 word sorry on a piece of paper, I don't think that's what a psychopath would do just based on the other ones I've read. I'm not an expert or even that well informed, just my opinion.

TomOnBoard · 23-05-2018 11:15AM

strandroad wrote: »

That's what psychopaths do though. They feed their entitlement, and protect their ego when cornered, even if it means self-destruction.

Im not sure why you believe that a psychosis is a form of mental illness, while an antisocial personal disorder is not. The World Health Organisation's International Classification of Diseases(v10) considers both to be.

The Nal · 23-05-2018 11:16AM

jiltloop wrote: »

Clearly he didn't have a healthy mindset but that doesn't mean that he had mental health issues. Why the urge to associate his actions with mental health issues?

Not having a healthy mindset is associated with mental health, clearly.

Stonedpilot · 23-05-2018 11:18AM

kingofclay wrote: »

I don't think he'd write sorry before killing himself if he was a psychopath.

Maybe he realized he couldnt live with himself and made some half arsed attempt at an apology before his suicide attempt.

Regarding mental health issues dont understand people getting upset with those saying he had mental health issues.

Having worked in community centre in a "colourful" area shall we say I met many with mental health problems (myself included).

Some are as harmless as a fly and kind beyond belief other people might have dark or violent tendencies.
Its totally totally subjective and dependent on the individual person and their own personal issues.

But for people to say oh it wasnt mental health issues dont suggest that because thats insulting to those with mental health issues.Thats just silly in my opinion.

Laois_Man · 23-05-2018 11:36AM

The Nal wrote: »

The video is apparently from a few weeks ago in the Martello in Bray. This photo is apparently from Saturday night in The Ramblers Rest in Ballybrack.

I could be wrong but I could swear that one of the news reports last night said he was wearing the same clothes when shot as those he was wearing in the video of him buying the Nissan. If so, then that photo is not from Saturday night - unless he had a change of clothes with him in the Nissan and changed between Saturday night and Sunday evening.

Suckit · 23-05-2018 11:40AM

Laois_Man wrote: »

I could be wrong but I could swear that one of the news reports last night said he was wearing the same clothes when shot as those he was wearing in the video of him buying the Nissan. If so, then that photo is not from Saturday night - unless he had a change of clothes with him in the Nissan and changed between Saturday night and Sunday evening.

That is very possible if he planned to murder somebody.

jiltloop · 23-05-2018 11:43AM

The Nal wrote: »

Not having a healthy mindset is associated with mental health, clearly.

Clearly in some cases it can be yes, I'm asking why people are so quick to attribute these acts with mental illness? Is this an easier outlook than accepting that there are some bad/evil people out there that are capable of these acts while not suffering from a mental health issue?

pawdee · 23-05-2018 11:47AM

What did this nutjob do for a living? So far I've read that he was a building contractor, a sub-contractor, a window fitter, a quantity surveyor, a crane banksman and that he worked in a well known DIY store. Not that it makes any difference to this terribly sad and tragic story. Just wondering.

jiltloop · 23-05-2018 11:47AM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

Maybe he realized he couldnt live with himself and made some half arsed attempt at an apology before his suicide attempt.

Regarding mental health issues dont understand people getting upset with those saying he had mental health issues.

Having worked in community centre in a "colourful" area shall we say I met many with mental health problems (myself included).

Some are as harmless as a fly and kind beyond belief other people might have dark or violent tendencies.
Its totally totally subjective and dependent on the individual person and their own personal issues.

But for people to say oh it wasnt mental health issues dont suggest that because thats insulting to those with mental health issues.Thats just silly in my opinion.

If it is subsequently comes out that he had a history of mental illness well then fair enough I don't think anyone would dispute that. What people are disputing is the diagnosis of mental health issues from people on the internet who have as much of a clue as anyone else on this man's mental state.

Can you not see how insulting this is for people who may suffer from mental health issues? When people see the abduction and murder of a woman as a symptom of ill mental health without any other evidence?

The Nal · 23-05-2018 12:05PM

Laois_Man wrote: »

I could be wrong but I could swear that one of the news reports last night said he was wearing the same clothes when shot as those he was wearing in the video of him buying the Nissan. If so, then that photo is not from Saturday night - unless he had a change of clothes with him in the Nissan and changed between Saturday night and Sunday evening.

Possible I guess.

jiltloop wrote: »

Clearly in some cases it can be yes, I'm asking why people are so quick to attribute these acts with mental illness? Is this an easier outlook than accepting that there are some bad/evil people out there that are capable of these acts while not suffering from a mental health issue?

Being a bad/evil person and committing bad/evil acts is a mental illness.

iamwhoiam · 23-05-2018 12:10PM

Laois_Man wrote: »

I could be wrong but I could swear that one of the news reports last night said he was wearing the same clothes when shot as those he was wearing in the video of him buying the Nissan. If so, then that photo is not from Saturday night - unless he had a change of clothes with him in the Nissan and changed between Saturday night and Sunday evening.

He could have thrown a jumper over the t shirt and taken his jumper off later

ConnyMcDavid · 23-05-2018 12:17PM

Just reading on rte that they are searching for her handbag.
Further into the report it says that she dropped her handbag shopping and phone during the attack.

So if the handbag is still missing is it possible some opportunist has taken a bag lying on the ground? Without handing it in to garda?

Stonedpilot · 23-05-2018 12:20PM

jiltloop wrote: »

If it is subsequently comes out that he had a history of mental illness well then fair enough I don't think anyone would dispute that. What people are disputing is the diagnosis of mental health issues from people on the internet who have as much of a clue as anyone else on this man's mental state.

Can you not see how insulting this is for people who may suffer from mental health issues? When people see the abduction and murder of a woman as a symptom of ill mental health without any other evidence?

You said it yourself. People online who dont know.

No I dont see it as insulting.

Think you missed my point.

Some with mental illness might be gentle and meek as a lamb others might have violent ideas and tendencies. Totally dependent on the individual and their circumstance.

Taking offence is just silly. Why?.
No one is saying all mental illness is the same. In fact Im saying the opposite.

listermint · 23-05-2018 12:22PM

Laois_Man wrote: »

I could be wrong but I could swear that one of the news reports last night said he was wearing the same clothes when shot as those he was wearing in the video of him buying the Nissan. If so, then that photo is not from Saturday night - unless he had a change of clothes with him in the Nissan and changed between Saturday night and Sunday evening.

Isnt the Nissan video from ages ago, possibly even last year. 171 ? brand new car.

glenfieldman · 23-05-2018 12:26PM

listermint wrote: »

Isnt the Nissan video from ages ago, possibly even last year. 171 ? brand new car.

I still wear clothes from a few years ago
I hate shopping so I just have clothes people get me for birthday or xmas

Strazdas · 23-05-2018 12:36PM

glenfieldman wrote: »

I still wear clothes from a few years ago
I hate shopping so I just have clothes people get me for birthday or xmas

Especially with men, they will often be seen wearing a t-shirt they were wearing a year or two ago (or even much longer). Women would be much more likely to keep changing their wardrobe.

TomOnBoard · 23-05-2018 12:38PM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

You said it yourself. People online who dont know.

No I dont see it as insulting.

Think you missed my point.

Some with mental illness might be gentle and meek as a lamb others might have violent ideas and tendencies. Totally dependent on the individual and their circumstance.

Taking offence is just silly. Why?.
No one is saying all mental illness is the same. In fact Im saying the opposite.

Further to these comments is the point that someone who uses cocaine and/or some other narcotics run a risk of suffering from psychotic episodes.

_feedback_ · 23-05-2018 12:39PM

jiltloop wrote: »

Clearly in some cases it can be yes, I'm asking why people are so quick to attribute these acts with mental illness? Is this an easier outlook than accepting that there are some bad/evil people out there that are capable of these acts while not suffering from a mental health issue?

Far be it from me to question the mental health experts on the thread, but surely a person that is capable of carrying out a sickening act like this is clearly not of a normal sound mind. Surely, a "bad/evil" person does not have a healthy mind, and is therefore, almost by default suffering from a mental illness of some sort?

fullstop · 23-05-2018 12:40PM

Textronic wrote: »

Do the gardai have enough expertise to deal rapidly with these situations ?

A different situation but I recall a knife attacker was shot dead minutes after appearing on a London bridge.

How was he able to go out socializing that night?

So somebody running around on a Saturday night with a knife stabbing people in the middle of a city with 8 million people was found within minutes, but somebody who abducted someone on a lane out in the country and wasn't identified at that point wasn't found until they were able to get the full registration number later...have a think about that one.

I'm also assuming all the experts saying "why did those idiots shoot him in the head" will be retracting their idiotic ramblings in light of the information this morning.

Dinxminx · 23-05-2018 12:52PM

_feedback_ wrote: »

Far be it from me to question the mental health experts on the thread, but surely a person that is capable of carrying out a sickening act like this is clearly not of a normal sound mind. Surely, a "bad/evil" person does not have a healthy mind, and is therefore, almost by default suffering from a mental illness of some sort?

This is what I've always thought, but I've talked about it with a number of psychologists and medical people and the ones I spoke with all believed there was a distinct difference between 'bad' and 'mad.'

kingofclay · 23-05-2018 12:57PM

In the case of the Columbine massacre, the two shooters exhibit contrasting psychological states. One of them was inherently evil and beyond help while the other was driven mad who could have been helped and put on the right path. According to JBP anyway.

jiltloop · 23-05-2018 12:57PM

The Nal wrote: »

Possible I guess.

Being a bad/evil person and committing bad/evil acts is a mental illness.

I'm not sure I can agree with this at all to be honest. If this were to become the accepted opinion of the courts for instance would we then see people receiving psychiatric treatment instead of custodial sentences just because behaving like a bad/evil person=mentally ill?

DaveTheLad · 23-05-2018 01:01PM

kingofclay wrote: »

In the case of the Columbine massacre, the two shooters exhibit contrasting psychological states. One of them was inherently evil and beyond help while the other was driven mad who could have been helped and put on the right path. According to JBP anyway.

Without going off topic, thats not exactly true. They both had mad/bad traits but neither were beyond help at all. Theres way more to it than that

jiltloop · 23-05-2018 01:02PM

_feedback_ wrote: »

Far be it from me to question the mental health experts on the thread, but surely a person that is capable of carrying out a sickening act like this is clearly not of a normal sound mind. Surely, a "bad/evil" person does not have a healthy mind, and is therefore, almost by default suffering from a mental illness of some sort?

I disagree, bad acts can be committed by people who are mentally well. I think your stance is dangerous as it moves in the direction of treating rather than punishing criminals.

Some people are violent criminals because it is learned. They are not mentally unsound because they commit violent acts.

Case in point, members of the travelling communities are well documented as having much higher instances of violent crime convictions compared to the rest of the population. Do you believe that's attributable to mental health? Does that correlate with mental health studies in the travelling community?

iamwhoiam · 23-05-2018 01:04PM

jiltloop wrote: »

I'm not sure I can agree with this at all to be honest. If this were to become the accepted opinion of the courts for instance would we then see people receiving psychiatric treatment instead of custodial sentences just because behaving like a bad/evil person=mentally ill?

Take Graham Dwyer or Joe O Reilly for example . Both evil and bad but the courts ruled they were not mentally ill . Being bad and evil does not always point to mental illness

Or take a gang of young men attacking people or stabbing someone . They are not all mentally ill but are bad

Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

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