Pavee point criticise judge for telling truth

Dr Brown · 28-04-2018 1:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I see John Connors on the front of the Star today acting as fair play man at a bareknuckle scrap. For a man who whines about being stereotyped he does a hell of a job living up to it.

Connors doesn't do the travelling community any favours.

NIMAN · 28-04-2018 1:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I see John Connors on the front of the Star today acting as fair play man at a bareknuckle scrap. For a man who whines about being stereotyped he does a hell of a job living up to it.

But its their culture, same as flegs, putting racist/sectarian signs on bonfires and marching where you're not welcome in NI.

mfceiling · 28-04-2018 1:29pm

I thought Pavee Point had closed down cause they haven't been in the news lately.
They didn't have much to say on the 2 travellers whose sentence was increased during the week - the 2 scumbag thieves that caused the elderly man to have a heart attack and die when he caught them robbing his house.
Funny that.

Defunkd · 28-04-2018 1:32pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

What race are travellers exactly?

They look white to me.

A few of them seem to carry that dark Irish gene. Many in my locality are actually quite good looking.

They are Irish. My sister told me years ago that testing done on travellers genes or dna shows that they are Irish, not of Roma or whatever descent. They are a sub-culture within Irish people not an ethnic minority of their own.

wexie · 28-04-2018 1:37pm

Defunkd wrote: »

They are a sub-culture within Irish people not an ethnic minority of their own.

seems opinions are somewhat varied on that one...

Birneybau · 28-04-2018 1:37pm

mfceiling wrote: »

I thought Pavee Point had closed down cause they haven't been in the news lately.
They didn't have much to say on the 2 travellers whose sentence was increased during the week - the 2 scumbag thieves that caused the elderly man to have a heart attack and die when he caught them robbing his house.
Funny that.

One of them was a proper Orc looking motherfcuker:

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/thieving-cousins-who-were-jailed-12433745

Imagine meeting up with your cousin for a lovely day of burglary.

Dr Brown · 28-04-2018 1:38pm

Defunkd wrote: »

They are Irish. My sister told me years ago that testing done on travellers genes or dna shows that they are Irish, not of Roma or whatever descent. They are a sub-culture within Irish people not an ethnic minority of their own.

If travellers can get "ethnic status" there is no reason why the likes of the hutch and kinahan gangs can't get "ethnic status" because they're also a sub-culture.

deaddonkey15 · 28-04-2018 1:44pm

Defunkd wrote: »

They are Irish. My sister told me years ago that testing done on travellers genes or dna shows that they are Irish, not of Roma or whatever descent. They are a sub-culture within Irish people not an ethnic minority of their own.

Apparently they are as different genetically from settled Irish as the Spanish are.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/science/travellers-as-genetically-different-from-settled-irish-as-spanish-1.2969515

SEPT 23 1989 · 28-04-2018 2:44pm

Birneybau wrote: »

One of them was a proper Orc looking motherfcuker:

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/thieving-cousins-who-were-jailed-12433745

Imagine meeting up with your cousin for a lovely day of burglary.

love the white shirt Nike Air jumper combo

h 7 · 28-04-2018 2:46pm

Knackers smell, they are inbred. Anywhere they set up camp, they always cause trouble. They are a menace in society and a virus in life.

Gunmonkey · 28-04-2018 3:12pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Poor auld Marty, even he must be getting embarrassed at this stage:

"These comments stereotype Travellers as inherently violent which is completely unfair as there are many events that take place in the Traveller community where there is no violence".

*Rollseyes

Ah jaysus, are we now going to have to start handing out gold stars to them now?

"Well done lads, you managed a basic social situation without baeting the head off each other!"

Thought they were meant to be a hard working, salt of the earth type, not a child trying not to wet the bed every night! Maybe the reason we've not seen so much from Pavee Point is because they've run out of finger paint to make their press releases. Maybe the Gov can do a whip around for some Pritt-stick, some coloured paper and a few tubes of glitter!

punisher5112 · 28-04-2018 3:37pm

What are these events they speak of and are us settled folk allowed attend¿¿¿

Omackeral · 28-04-2018 3:42pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I see John Connors on the front of the Star today acting as fair play man at a bareknuckle scrap. For a man who whines about being stereotyped he does a hell of a job living up to it.

Ah he has a thread all to himself. Enjoy...

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057861371/1

whisky_galore · 28-04-2018 4:13pm

Graces7 wrote: »

that is their way of honouring their dead. Their right and not to be mocked for it

Expensive headstones that manage to look cheap.

JPCN1 · 28-04-2018 4:20pm

vicwatson wrote: »

Well maybe not president, but at least someone is talking about this scourge.

I believe Mr Kilrane was right to question why this crap goes on, I've never seen a fight at a funeral or a wedding (as a non member of the traveller community), EVER.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-criticised-for-offensive-and-inappropriate-comments-about-travelling-community-36851440.html

We criticise Judges a lot, and most of the time with reason, but this dude stands out for me in that he is questioning like it is.

It's time to say "No More" imo, the laws of the land are for all, and not just for some.

This is also a complete joke, court services cop on - "The other cases were put back to April 25 2019"

If he ran I'd vote for him.

Gravelly · 28-04-2018 4:25pm

Birneybau wrote: »

One of them was a proper Orc looking motherfcuker:

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/thieving-cousins-who-were-jailed-12433745

Imagine meeting up with your cousin for a lovely day of burglary.

The winning combination of inbreeding and fetal alcohol syndrome that gives that distinctive mouth breeding, heavybrowed, small-eyed look, and the associated “cultural” behaviour issues.

Irish Guitarist · 28-04-2018 6:08pm

Look at you all in your ivory towers acting as if you've never beaten the shite out of someone at a funeral. What's the point in even going to a funeral if you don't engage in some bare knuckle boxing?

And don't tell me you've never had a fight at a Christening. These are the best fights I've ever been in. I've even developed my own style. I grab the baby in my hands and throw it at the parents like I'm tossing a caber.

SEPT 23 1989 · 28-04-2018 6:37pm

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Look at you all in your ivory towers acting as if you've never beaten the shite out of someone at a funeral. What's the point in even going to a funeral if you don't engage in some bare knuckle boxing?

And don't tell me you've never had a fight at a Christening. These are the best fights I've ever been in. I've even developed my own style. I grab the baby in my hands and throw it at the parents like I'm tossing a caber.

Each table at our wedding had a slash hook for after the speeches

regular_slob · 28-04-2018 6:48pm

while this judge is unlikely to be forced to step down , i can see the media really taking him to task , travellers are probably the biggest sacred cow in the media when it comes to minorities

McMurphy · 28-04-2018 6:53pm

regular_slob wrote: »

while this judge is unlikely to be forced to step down , i can see the media really taking him to task , travellers are probably the biggest sacred cow in the media when it comes to minorities

Lol they are in my bollocks.

regular_slob · 28-04-2018 6:57pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Lol they are in my bollocks.

they absolutely are , john connors is a darling of the media here , feel good stories involving travellers always highlight the ethnicity , crime stories involving travellers on rte neglect to inform us that it was travellers involved

then there are the individual journalists who champion travellers for there cultural richness along with admonishing broader irish society for showing prejudice towards travellers ( vincent browne being the key figure ) , was listening to a discussion on newstalk not long ago and all three contributors called for education in schools to involve educating people about travellers , not a mention of anything related to criminality or dysfunctionality within the traveller community itself , the sole narrative in the media when it comes to travellers is one of the majority settled community are simply racist and also that the government doesnt spend enough resources on travellers

McMurphy · 28-04-2018 7:15pm

regular_slob wrote: »

they absolutely are , john connors is a darling of the media here , feel good stories involving travellers always highlight the ethnicity , crime stories involving travellers on rte neglect to inform us that it was travellers involved

then there are the individual journalists who champion travellers for there cultural richness along with admonishing broader irish society for showing prejudice towards travellers ( vincent browne being the key figure ) , was listening to a discussion on newstalk not long ago and all three contributors called for education in schools to involve educating people about travellers , not a mention of anything related to criminality or dysfunctionality within the traveller community itself , the sole narrative in the media when it comes to travellers is one of the majority settled community are simply racist and also that the government doesnt spend enough resources on travellers

That's what I was getting at tbh, I can usually determine if a story involves a traveller within the first few paragraphs, as I find the media (printed media in particular) love dropping little nuggets of information that leaves the reader with no doubt that travellers are involved.

Something along the lines of "the goods where recovered in the South Dublin area" would be the opening line, but a few sentences on might be "when the gards searched a halting site".

Maybe it just seems that way to me, but I definitely don't find them being over sympathetic to them.

SEPT 23 1989 · 28-04-2018 7:28pm

The ones that have the least interaction with them shout the loudest in the media

No halting sites in the city centre or donnybrook

end of the road · 28-04-2018 7:46pm

CeilingFly wrote: »

Funny how silent pavee point and their mouthpiece have been recently regarding horrendous criminal acts by travellers.

Suddenly a judge gives them a few truths that they don't like and mouthpiece Collins is up in arms.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-criticised-for-offensive-and-inappropriate-comments-about-travelling-community-36851440.html

Mr. Collins - if you are reading this, over 15% of the male prison population are travellers. Care to comment on that?

That to me would suggest a community that is rife with violence and criminality.

But your deafening silence on the very substantial number of criminals within the traveller group is rather amazing.

it's not up to pavee point or mr collins to deal with that issue publically. it's for the authorities to deal with. and deal with it they must.

Assetbacked wrote: »

Protected ethnic minority status should be revoked. That is purely an excuse to get away with their Wild West style of living.

can't be done, it was implemented to try and protect them from discrimination. the status is necessary. up to the authorities to enforce the law and for government to insure the gardai, courts and prison service have the resources and funding needed to do the job they do.

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

His comments were said to be offensive by pavee point purely because they’re true and they don’t like being told what an uncultured shower of criminals travellers really are.

It’s no co-incidence that pubs and hotels close their doors when they know there is a traveller funeral in town. Traveller regularly complain they have to book christenings weddings etc under false names as hotel will refuse bookings if they realise it’s for a bunch of traveller who will likely thrash the place and leave unpaid bills and rightly so!!!

Travelers deserve all the contempt they get. When they start acting civilised and contributing the society they will then start to be accepted.

nope, they will be excepted regardless, as all of them won't be involved in criminality. the only people responsible for discrimination against any minority group are those doing the discrimination.

punisher5112 · 28-04-2018 7:49pm

And who voices our concerns of discrimination towards us and the many many many thefts, attacks and just plain dodgy jobs done etc.

Revenue and Gardai need a zero tolerance approach.

end of the road · 28-04-2018 8:02pm

mfceiling wrote: »

I thought Pavee Point had closed down cause they haven't been in the news lately.
They didn't have much to say on the 2 travellers whose sentence was increased during the week - the 2 scumbag thieves that caused the elderly man to have a heart attack and die when he caught them robbing his house.
Funny that.

perhapse pavee point rightly agree those people deserve jail time. i know i certainly think they didn't get half enough dispite the increase.

Dr Brown wrote: »

If travellers can get "ethnic status" there is no reason why the likes of the hutch and kinahan gangs can't get "ethnic status" because they're also a sub-culture.

the fact that the likes of the hutch and kinahan gangs are actual criminal gangs, and the fact they aren't different to the rest of us, would be a couple of major reasons why they rightly can't get and won't be given ethnic status. it's not going to happen, ever.

Graces7 · 28-04-2018 8:08pm

end of the road wrote: »

it's not up to pavee point or mr collins to deal with that issue publically. it's for the authorities to deal with. and deal with it they must.

can't be done, it was implemented to try and protect them from discrimination. the status is necessary. up to the authorities to enforce the law and for government to insure the gardai, courts and prison service have the resources and funding needed to do the job they do.

nope, they will be excepted regardless, as all of them won't be involved in criminality. the only people responsible for discrimination against any minority group are those doing the discrimination.

Agree totally. Some of the posts here are shocking. I watched today some of the UK youtubes re the evictions there eg Dale Farm.

The discrimination here is disturbing, especially re graves .

Graces7 · 28-04-2018 8:10pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

And who voices our concerns of discrimination towards us and the many many many thefts, attacks and just plain dodgy jobs done etc.

Revenue and Gardai need a zero tolerance approach.

???

SEPT 23 1989 · 28-04-2018 8:11pm

I see Citizen Smith is up out of the bed

handlemaster · 28-04-2018 8:19pm

Im sure travellers are sick of their income taxes going to towards Gardai security operations.

punisher5112 · 28-04-2018 8:21pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Agree totally. Some of the posts here are shocking. I watched today some of the UK youtubes re the evictions there eg Dale Farm.

The discrimination here is disturbing, especially re graves .

Go to a graveyard and see these absolutely vulgar and a big two finger salute to us that contribute to society.....

mloc123 · 28-04-2018 8:24pm

Pepefrogok wrote: »

I am confused now, on one hand there is a absolute mountain of evidence to support the fact that travellers are overly violent especially at family events like weddings and funerals etc but then on the other hand we have your anecdote, I don't know what to believe!

an his sample set is 2 weddings from 1000...

corner of hells · 28-04-2018 8:25pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Go to a graveyard and see these absolutely vulgar and a big two finger salute to us that contribute to society.....

My father is buried in an area with quite a few travellers graves around him . A lot seem to be very young children and young adults.
I don't find them in the slightest bit vulgar.

AllForIt · 28-04-2018 8:31pm

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I worked at a popular, upper end, wedding venue, that hosted approximately 115 weddings a year, for 8 years, so have seen approx 1000 weddings, including ones I have attended. 2 were traveller weddings. 1 settled couple, 1 English Irish Traveller.

Ive had hassle, threats, fighting, blood, glassings, garda and ambulances called than I care for. Approximately once a month something major happened. But nothing at the traveller weddings.

Most of the hassle was from Armagh or Tyrone crowds.

For a second there I though you were making the point the settled folk are just as bad as travellers if not worse, but your last line there explains it all.

Dr Brown · 28-04-2018 8:51pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The ones that have the least interaction with them shout the loudest in the media

No halting sites in the city centre or donnybrook

In my experience over the years I have found 100% of travellers to be criminals.

There may be some "good" travellers but I have yet to find any.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 28-04-2018 8:57pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The ones that have the least interaction with them shout the loudest in the media

No halting sites in the city centre or donnybrook

This has ever been the case. Those defending travellers have invariably never lived beside a halting site nor had large numbers illegally camped next to them.

Dr Brown · 28-04-2018 9:03pm

Holly Greasy Tower wrote: »

This has ever been the case. Those defending travellers have invariably never lived beside a halting site nor had large numbers illegally camped next to them.

Its bit like the people who say that multiculturalism is great but they live in an all white area and call everybody "racist" who doesn't think its a good idea.

28-04-2018 9:16pm

I have on a number of occasions seen towns closed off and Guards drafted in from around the country due to trouble expected to kick off at a traveller funeral. In my younger days I worked as a monumental sculptor and dug my fair share of graves, the only time I saw members of our boys in blue at a funeral was if it was for a member of the travelling community. Hell, more than once the armed response were in attendance.

padd b1975 · 28-04-2018 9:25pm

handlemaster wrote: »

Im sure travellers are sick of their income taxes going to towards Gardai security operations.

Ohh mercy!!

Dyr · 28-04-2018 10:28pm

Increase the size of the gardai dog unit a hundred fold and give them leeway to make operational decisions on the ground vis a vis releasing their land sharks to nibble on misbehaving degenerates at social occasions.

Mrs OBumble · 28-04-2018 10:52pm

NIMAN wrote: »

But if they make up 2% of the population (I'm only guessing, not sure what % of the population class themselves as 'travellers'), then they have an unusually high percentage in prison compared to the national average.

Almost.

You need to age-weight it to make a fair comparison.

Travellers have high birth rates and a far shorter life expectancy. Nett result is that their age profile is a good deal younger than the settled population. And young people are more likely to be in trouble with the law the world over.

Defunkd wrote: »

They are Irish. My sister told me years ago that testing done on travellers genes or dna shows that they are Irish, not of Roma or whatever descent. They are a sub-culture within Irish people not an ethnic minority of their own.

Your sister has confused ethnicity with nationality

Travellers are a particular sub-group within people regarded as Irish because of their nationality.

Ethnicity is a combination of national / racial sub-groups, and personal culture and family membership.

Dr Brown wrote: »

In my experience over the years I have found 100% of travellers to be criminals.

There may be some "good" travellers but I have yet to find any.

Maybe you need to move in broader circles.

Yes. criminality is over-represented in the Traveller population. But it's far from all Travellers who are criminal.

Road-Hog · 28-04-2018 10:56pm

CeilingFly wrote: »

Funny how silent pavee point and their mouthpiece have been recently regarding horrendous criminal acts by travellers.

Suddenly a judge gives them a few truths that they don't like and mouthpiece Collins is up in arms.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-criticised-for-offensive-and-inappropriate-comments-about-travelling-community-36851440.html

Mr. Collins - if you are reading this, over 15% of the male prison population are travellers. Care to comment on that?

That to me would suggest a community that is rife with violence and criminality.

But your deafening silence on the very substantial number of criminals within the traveller group is rather amazing.

What would you think if a white American made a similar statement like yours about the African American population.......???

irishproduce · 28-04-2018 11:15pm

I read a survey a year or two ago that showed the majority of Irish people, when given the choice, would rather have refugees as their neighbor over travellers.
That said a lot for me, that most people would rather have people of different nationality and race living next door to them than other Irish people (travellers) with whom they should easily and readily identify with.

Graces7 · 29-04-2018 6:16am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Go to a graveyard and see these absolutely vulgar and a big two finger salute to us that contribute to society.....

In YOUR opinion .. I have seen graves of all kinds and respect the way anyone comes to terms with their losses. Not the way for me but they have that right too; vulgar is an interesting word to use .

Nothing to do with you or with how you see them.

Omackeral · 29-04-2018 6:29am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Maybe you need to move in broader circles.

I’m sure the poster is happy enough to keep their distance if literally 100% of the people from that group have been bad eggs or criminals. Why would you keep putting your hand back in a fire if it keeps getting burned?!

I’m not saying all travellers are bad at all but they’ve certainly got a negative reputation and it’s hard to argue that it’s not deserved a lot of the time. As always, I’d say take people on an individual basis but this poster has done that so far and, according to him, he’s never had a single positive encounter. It’s kinda natural to form an opinion after that really whether that’s palatable or not.

mikemac2 · 29-04-2018 6:35am

regular_slob wrote: »

stories involving travellers on rte neglect to inform us that it was travellers involved

Between the location, type of crime and the surname of the clan the RTÉ viewers don’t need to be told

It’s obvious to all

Graces7 wrote: »

In YOUR opinion .. I have seen graves of all kinds and respect the way anyone comes to terms with their losses. Not the way for me but they have that right too; vulgar is an interesting word to use .

Nothing to do with you or with how you see them.

There are monstrosities in the graveyard south of Longford town that would not look out of place in the Vatican.

Yes vulgar is the correct word

Omackeral · 29-04-2018 6:37am

Road-Hog wrote: »

What would you think if a white American made a similar statement like yours about the African American population.......???

Well there’s that old chestnut dusted off again. Do blacks people have a reputation for knocking the bollox out of each other at funerals and weddings? Did that judge reference skin colour? No, he asked a question of a culture. He’s white himself and I’d wager most travellers are white. He’s not getting at race at all so your argument is flawed. There’s no single black culture among African Americans, it’s a country of 300 million people plus. A black farmer lad in rural Alabama is gonna be a world away to a black stock broker on Wall Street, both of them far removed from some little gamer nerd in suburban Cleveland or a pretentious hipster in Seattle. There’s no one black culture. Travellers on the other hand have a culture, or sub culture, according to themselves most of all.

The last president of the USA was African American. Their greatest sports stars are mostly black men and women. The entertainment industries of film and music are full of black stars. Can we say any of that about Travellers? The comparison only works when you pigeon hole it. In a broader scale, it’s useless.

dr.fuzzenstein · 29-04-2018 7:12am

There is a fine line.
Blacks, as well as travelers are overrepresented in prisons.
It would not be regarded as good manners to argue that "all blacks/travelers are scumbags", notwithstanding this fact.
Others argue that they have higher rates of incarceration because society discriminates against them and they get unfair treatment.
I'm certain that societies prejudice and fear of both groups puts them at a disadvantage.
I don't fancy trying to achieve what modest success I had in life as a traveller.
Their culture and societies prejudice certainly are not helping. It's not like their genetically disposed toward a life of crime.
If you took any traveller baby and planted it in the settled community, nobody would know the difference.
Of course none of this makes the present situation any better.
Eradicating or changing a culture is not easy. Humans are funny that way.
Biologically nothing stops a traveller to be every bit as successful as someone from the settled community.
But their own prejudice of settled people, and vice versa, is keeping them back.
It's always the same story. Humans are sh*tty to each other because of their ideas, rather than any biological reason. There is always a superior group and an inferior one. And what actual, physical reason is there for it?
None, other than the prejudice on both sides.

As for racist, we are one race. Homo Sapiens. It is idiotic in the extreme to try and group people on the nonexistent basis of race.

Omackeral · 29-04-2018 7:15am

That’s well written and has good points but why do they kick the f*ck out of each other at weddings and funerals all the time?

dr.fuzzenstein · 29-04-2018 7:34am

Omackeral wrote: »

That’s well written and has good points but why do they kick the f*ck out of each other at weddings and funerals all the time?

We're back at "it's their culture, innit?".
Some aspects of which definitely need overhauling.
Of course their stance is "respect out culture" but I disagree that this should be a blanket get out of jail card.

Pavee point criticise judge for telling truth

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