Pavee point criticise judge for telling truth

Mrs OBumble

NIMAN wrote: »

But if they make up 2% of the population (I'm only guessing, not sure what % of the population class themselves as 'travellers'), then they have an unusually high percentage in prison compared to the national average.

Almost.

You need to age-weight it to make a fair comparison.

Travellers have high birth rates and a far shorter life expectancy. Nett result is that their age profile is a good deal younger than the settled population. And young people are more likely to be in trouble with the law the world over.

Defunkd wrote: »

They are Irish. My sister told me years ago that testing done on travellers genes or dna shows that they are Irish, not of Roma or whatever descent. They are a sub-culture within Irish people not an ethnic minority of their own.

Your sister has confused ethnicity with nationality

Travellers are a particular sub-group within people regarded as Irish because of their nationality.

Ethnicity is a combination of national / racial sub-groups, and personal culture and family membership.

Dr Brown wrote: »

In my experience over the years I have found 100% of travellers to be criminals.

There may be some "good" travellers but I have yet to find any.

Maybe you need to move in broader circles.

Yes. criminality is over-represented in the Traveller population. But it's far from all Travellers who are criminal.

Road-Hog

CeilingFly wrote: »

Funny how silent pavee point and their mouthpiece have been recently regarding horrendous criminal acts by travellers.

Suddenly a judge gives them a few truths that they don't like and mouthpiece Collins is up in arms.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-criticised-for-offensive-and-inappropriate-comments-about-travelling-community-36851440.html

Mr. Collins - if you are reading this, over 15% of the male prison population are travellers. Care to comment on that?

That to me would suggest a community that is rife with violence and criminality.

But your deafening silence on the very substantial number of criminals within the traveller group is rather amazing.

What would you think if a white American made a similar statement like yours about the African American population.......???

irishproduce

I read a survey a year or two ago that showed the majority of Irish people, when given the choice, would rather have refugees as their neighbor over travellers.
That said a lot for me, that most people would rather have people of different nationality and race living next door to them than other Irish people (travellers) with whom they should easily and readily identify with.

Graces7

punisher5112 wrote: »

Go to a graveyard and see these absolutely vulgar and a big two finger salute to us that contribute to society.....

In YOUR opinion .. I have seen graves of all kinds and respect the way anyone comes to terms with their losses. Not the way for me but they have that right too; vulgar is an interesting word to use .

Nothing to do with you or with how you see them.

Omackeral

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Maybe you need to move in broader circles.

I’m sure the poster is happy enough to keep their distance if literally 100% of the people from that group have been bad eggs or criminals. Why would you keep putting your hand back in a fire if it keeps getting burned?!

I’m not saying all travellers are bad at all but they’ve certainly got a negative reputation and it’s hard to argue that it’s not deserved a lot of the time. As always, I’d say take people on an individual basis but this poster has done that so far and, according to him, he’s never had a single positive encounter. It’s kinda natural to form an opinion after that really whether that’s palatable or not.

mikemac2

regular_slob wrote: »

stories involving travellers on rte neglect to inform us that it was travellers involved

Between the location, type of crime and the surname of the clan the RTÉ viewers don’t need to be told

It’s obvious to all

Graces7 wrote: »

In YOUR opinion .. I have seen graves of all kinds and respect the way anyone comes to terms with their losses. Not the way for me but they have that right too; vulgar is an interesting word to use .

Nothing to do with you or with how you see them.

There are monstrosities in the graveyard south of Longford town that would not look out of place in the Vatican.

Yes vulgar is the correct word

Omackeral

Road-Hog wrote: »

What would you think if a white American made a similar statement like yours about the African American population.......???

Well there’s that old chestnut dusted off again. Do blacks people have a reputation for knocking the bollox out of each other at funerals and weddings? Did that judge reference skin colour? No, he asked a question of a culture. He’s white himself and I’d wager most travellers are white. He’s not getting at race at all so your argument is flawed. There’s no single black culture among African Americans, it’s a country of 300 million people plus. A black farmer lad in rural Alabama is gonna be a world away to a black stock broker on Wall Street, both of them far removed from some little gamer nerd in suburban Cleveland or a pretentious hipster in Seattle. There’s no one black culture. Travellers on the other hand have a culture, or sub culture, according to themselves most of all.

The last president of the USA was African American. Their greatest sports stars are mostly black men and women. The entertainment industries of film and music are full of black stars. Can we say any of that about Travellers? The comparison only works when you pigeon hole it. In a broader scale, it’s useless.

dr.fuzzenstein

There is a fine line.
Blacks, as well as travelers are overrepresented in prisons.
It would not be regarded as good manners to argue that "all blacks/travelers are scumbags", notwithstanding this fact.
Others argue that they have higher rates of incarceration because society discriminates against them and they get unfair treatment.
I'm certain that societies prejudice and fear of both groups puts them at a disadvantage.
I don't fancy trying to achieve what modest success I had in life as a traveller.
Their culture and societies prejudice certainly are not helping. It's not like their genetically disposed toward a life of crime.
If you took any traveller baby and planted it in the settled community, nobody would know the difference.
Of course none of this makes the present situation any better.
Eradicating or changing a culture is not easy. Humans are funny that way.
Biologically nothing stops a traveller to be every bit as successful as someone from the settled community.
But their own prejudice of settled people, and vice versa, is keeping them back.
It's always the same story. Humans are sh*tty to each other because of their ideas, rather than any biological reason. There is always a superior group and an inferior one. And what actual, physical reason is there for it?
None, other than the prejudice on both sides.

As for racist, we are one race. Homo Sapiens. It is idiotic in the extreme to try and group people on the nonexistent basis of race.

Omackeral

That’s well written and has good points but why do they kick the f*ck out of each other at weddings and funerals all the time?

dr.fuzzenstein

Omackeral wrote: »

That’s well written and has good points but why do they kick the f*ck out of each other at weddings and funerals all the time?

We're back at "it's their culture, innit?".
Some aspects of which definitely need overhauling.
Of course their stance is "respect out culture" but I disagree that this should be a blanket get out of jail card.

Galwayguy35

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I worked at a popular, upper end, wedding venue, that hosted approximately 115 weddings a year, for 8 years, so have seen approx 1000 weddings, including ones I have attended. 2 were traveller weddings. 1 settled couple, 1 English Irish Traveller.

Ive had hassle, threats, fighting, blood, glassings, garda and ambulances called than I care for. Approximately once a month something major happened. But nothing at the traveller weddings.

Most of the hassle was from Armagh or Tyrone crowds.

And how many funerals were you at where Gardai needed to be present in case the mourners started fighting with each other?

Vote4Napoleon

I believe those in the media who push this salt of the earth bulls##/ out there are quite bigoted. If a traveller on 1 of these pro traveller programmes washes his face ur waiting for a commentator to come in with sum ****e like "no-one in the settled community wud do as gud". I believe it was G.W. Bush who defined such actions as the bigotry of low expectations.

whisky_galore

Omackeral wrote: »

That’s well written and has good points but why do they kick the f*ck out of each other at weddings and funerals all the time?

Some sort of exagerrated notion of pride and honour that mainstream Irish people simply 'get over' or channel into less destructive things like inter sports team rivalry. I'm sure we'd all like to kick the sh1t out of the odd cousin or two but common sense and the legal system prevents us doing so.

begbysback

Omackeral wrote: »

That’s well written and has good points but why do they kick the f*ck out of each other at weddings and funerals all the time?

Alcohol

Mutant z

Is there any chance of dismantling these quango groups they're nothing but a financially nuisance and only increase the victim status of the groups which they supposedly represent.

Mrcaramelchoc

suicide_circus wrote: »

Some cultures are better than others

Boss

Cee-Jay-Cee

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Poor auld Marty, even he must be getting embarrassed at this stage:

"These comments stereotype Travellers as inherently violent which is completely unfair as there are many events that take place in the Traveller community where there is no violence".   

Like bare knuckle boxing for example...

Cee-Jay-Cee

CeilingFly wrote: »

On average 15% of the male adult prison population in 2016 were travellers.
For females it was 22%.

But prisoners change - its not the same people every year / month.

In excess of 30% of travellers have been in prison at some stage of their life. And that's just the convicted ones that got a prison sentence - many people get probation act applied

The rest of them just have been lucky and haven’t been caught...yet.

timthumbni

I was amazed by that post on here a few months ago showing them racing on traps on a major road blocking off the police/ causing oncoming traffic to take evasive action Etc..

I can assure you that if I had did that I would be jailed very quickly. Do they think that cultural values entitle them to ignore and break the laws of the land they live in?

The first thing an alcoholic needs to do is acknowledge that they do indeed have a problem. I would suggest that pavee point and the like do the same. Blaming others is easy in order to make up nonsense excuses for abhorrent behaviour, but completely futile when the problem is entirely your own fault.

Roger Hassenforder

Traveller women 30 times as likely to suffer domestic abuse as a settled woman...
30 fcuking times.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/traveller-women-30-times-more-likely-to-suffer-domestic-violence-report-1.707916%3fmode=amp

Instead of acknowledging this crisis, their publically funded advocates, Pavee point, deflect from this fact, citing issues accessing services (itself an issue) and being due to discrimination:
"Gender-based violence affects women from all ethnic and social groups. However, Traveller and Roma women who are affected by domestic and sexual violence face significant barriers to mainstream services and protections, placing them at further risk of gender-based violence. This is directly linked with being subjected to multiple discrimination based on ethnicity and gender. "

Traveller women are being fundamentally and disproportinately discriminated by their own menfolk. Kids growing up in that "culture" see violence as the norm. Carries on into adulthood where violence is seen as acceptable behaviour in conflict resolution rather than dialogue, and where education is seen as unecessary. Fueds are normalised. Girls see such a life as their lot; boys see it as what they do. You get the odd outlier that values education and a job, a minority unfortunately.

Id happily pay more taxes to provide refuges for traveller women and kids suffering domestic violence, maybe break the cycle, rather than squandering money pandering to their cultural accomadation requirements. The community could be seen by such traveller kids as not their enemy.

"Toxic masculinity" is inherent in traveller culture. Where is the outrage?

But its societys fault.
Not theirs.
www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/ourview/violence-among-travellers-we-must-admit-that-it-is-a-problem-818587.htm

"Some Travellers are violent but it’s wrong to suggest that the whole community are,” says Collins. “Videos on YouTube are making it worse. It is an element in the community but not representative of Travellers as a whole"

Get your house in order Martin Collins. You're failing your people, especially your women and kids.

Omackeral

timthumbni wrote: »

Blaming others is easy.

Some Olympic calibre posters on here for that traditionally let me tell you.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Roger Hassenforder

Roger Hassenforder wrote:

Instead of acknowledging this crisis, their publically funded advocates, Pavee point, deflect from this fact, citing issues accessing services (itself an issue) and being due to discrimination: "Gender-based violence affects women from all ethnic and social groups. However, Traveller and Roma women who are affected by domestic and sexual violence face significant barriers to mainstream services and protections, placing them at further risk of gender-based violence. This is directly linked with being subjected to multiple discrimination based on ethnicity and gender. "

Pavee Point would tell you that grass was yellow and dogs were cats to spin any negativity in relation to travellers. I know someone who works for a domestic abuse charity and plenty of traveller women make use of their services and there are no barriers to them accessing facilities beyond their own community.

Paved Point are dangerous, in Galway when they found dead horses in an area where travelers lived and kept said horses they went on a campaign arguing " there is no way to know who it belongs to, settled people keep horses outside their houses all the time". They then accused anyone suggesting that the horse be removed and re-homed as racist.

seachto7

irishproduce wrote: »

I read a survey a year or two ago that showed the majority of Irish people, when given the choice, would rather have refugees as their neighbor over travellers.
That said a lot for me, that most people would rather have people of different nationality and race living next door to them than other Irish people (travellers) with whom they should easily and readily identify with.

Are you for real? The only thing I have in common with travelers is we speak English. Nothing else.

Omackeral

seachto7 wrote: »

The only thing I have in common with travelers is we speak English.

That’s debatable at times Sublik, especially if the shades cetch ye tryin to feek a beor

Roger Hassenforder

seachto7 wrote: »

Are you for real? The only thing I have in common with travelers is we speak English. Nothing else.

Thats what hes saying!

Mrs OBumble

seachto7 wrote: »

Are you for real? The only thing I have in common with travelers is we speak English. Nothing else.

So you're not an Irish national, you don't live in Ireland? Why are you posting on boards?

seachto7

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

seachto7 wrote: »

Are you for real? The only thing I have in common with travelers is we speak English. Nothing else.

Thats what hes saying!

My mistake ! I’m asleep

suicide_circus

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0429/959024-arrest-garda-attack/

:pac:

mikemac2

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So you're not an Irish national, you don't live in Ireland and you're not a human being? Why are you posting on boards?

It’s not Irish, it’s not English. It’s just..well, it’s just pikey