Pavee point criticise judge for telling truth

CeilingFly · 28-04-2018 9:26am #1

Funny how silent pavee point and their mouthpiece have been recently regarding horrendous criminal acts by travellers.

Suddenly a judge gives them a few truths that they don't like and mouthpiece Collins is up in arms.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-criticised-for-offensive-and-inappropriate-comments-about-travelling-community-36851440.html

Mr. Collins - if you are reading this, over 15% of the male prison population are travellers. Care to comment on that?

That to me would suggest a community that is rife with violence and criminality.

But your deafening silence on the very substantial number of criminals within the traveller group is rather amazing.

vicwatson · 28-04-2018 9:27am

Well maybe not president, but at least someone is talking about this scourge.

I believe Mr Kilrane was right to question why this crap goes on, I've never seen a fight at a funeral or a wedding (as a non member of the traveller community), EVER.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-criticised-for-offensive-and-inappropriate-comments-about-travelling-community-36851440.html

We criticise Judges a lot, and most of the time with reason, but this dude stands out for me in that he is questioning like it is.

It's time to say "No More" imo, the laws of the land are for all, and not just for some.

This is also a complete joke, court services cop on - "The other cases were put back to April 25 2019"

Assetbacked · 28-04-2018 9:35am

Protected ethnic minority status should be revoked. That is purely an excuse to get away with their Wild West style of living.

Even the somewhat well known actor John Connors shows what a chip on his shoulder he has with Twitter and displays the perpetual persecution mentality which fuels a travelling person’s misguided righteousness they use to justify their lawless way of living.

Wibbs · 28-04-2018 9:37am

It seems to these groups "offensive" and "inappropriate" equals "pretty bloody accurate".

This part: "These comments also highlight the need for anti-racism training for judges which would include the fact that a person’s ethnicity is not relevant in court proceedings. No ethnic group is immune to criminal activity". Indeed so, however the facts are your particular ethnic group is disproportionally represented in criminal activity. These are again facts. Facts which the Gardai and judges who have to deal with such cases on a weekly basis are all too aware of.

For fun have an oul read of the last bit...

“I want to explain a bit of our story to the Inspector,” he said before outlining that there had been a problem with the headstone with two female family members wanting a bigger one than the four foot high one allowed at Sligo Cemetery.
There was friction as a result.

The defendant was the first to give the undertaking followed by Thomas Conroy (44) of 23 Ard Rua, Claremorris who was charged with assaulting Michael and Nora Sweeney; Michael Sweeney (38), Brookfield, Ballinode who was charged with assaulting Michael Sweeney; Tom Sweeney (40) of Kilmore Heights, Kilkelly who was charged with assaulting Michael Sweeney; Edward Sweeney (30) of Hollymount who was charged with assaulting Michael Sweeney; Martin Sweeney (37) 3 Mulberry Park, Ballinode who was charged with assaulting Kate Sweeney; Patrick Sweeney (30), Hollymount who was charged with assaulting Michael Sweeney.

The court heard that another defendant, Martin Ard Rua Conroy (23) of 23 Ard Rua, Claremorris who is charged with assaulting Michael Sweeney was in hospital and his case was adjourned for a week.

They started thumping the heads off each other over the height of a bloody gravestone.

McMurphy · 28-04-2018 9:44am

I recall being in court one morning, and there was a few members of a large extended family there, bandaged and patched up in various places, all attendees of a fairly large wedding a few days before.

Anyway, the judge asked one of the lads to give his version of event's as to how the fight broke out, and got so badly out of hand.

The first lad up was the best man, and he said that the fight erupted for the rather mundane reason that he had the cheek to have a slow dance with the bride, and the groom was dancing with a bridesmaid.

Your man goes on to tell the judge that right in the middle of the dance, the groom - (completely out of nowhere) runs up and kicks the bride right "in the fanny judge"

The judge looked like he was going to explode, he peered over his glasses at your man, and just straight up asked him if he expected the court to believe him that the row that had caused the hospitalization of a good few members of various families, several hundred thousand euros of damages to the local hotel, and the attendance of various units of emergency services was the result of a dance.

"Are you telling me, that you were dancing with the bride, and the groom came out of nowhere and kicked her between the legs sir"? He asked.

"I am judge" he said.

"And he broke these 3 fingers at the same time" he said, raising his heavily bandaged right hand to show the court.

Damien360 · 28-04-2018 9:48am

Thanks Johnny, thats a good start to the day. LOL

johnml · 28-04-2018 9:53am

CeilingFly wrote: »

Funny how silent pavee point and their mouthpiece have been recently regarding horrendous criminal acts by travellers

Mr. Collins - if you are reading this, over 15% of the male prison population are travellers. Care to comment on that?

It's racism from An Garda Siochana! They're arresting innocent travellers going about their work! And 'racist' judges are imprisoning them!

punisher5112 · 28-04-2018 9:58am

Education is key.

Zero tolerance approach also to tax evasion and dodgy tarmacadam drive ways....

Mrcaramelchoc · 28-04-2018 10:02am

Where's the "grabs popcorn" guy?

punisher5112 · 28-04-2018 10:02am

Mrcaramelchoc wrote: »

Where's the "grabs popcorn" guy?

You can be that guy

SEPT 23 1989 · 28-04-2018 10:03am

29% of them have been locked up at some stage of their lives not 15%

There are 30,000 "travellers" in Ireland

Sofiztikated · 28-04-2018 10:05am

vicwatson wrote: »

Well maybe not president, but at least someone is talking about this scourge.

I believe Mr Kilrane was right to question why this crap goes on, I've never seen a fight at a funeral or a wedding (as a non member of the traveller community), EVER.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-criticised-for-offensive-and-inappropriate-comments-about-travelling-community-36851440.html

We criticise Judges a lot, and most of the time with reason, but this dude stands out for me in that he is questioning like it is.

It's time to say "No More" imo, the laws of the land are for all, and not just for some.

This is also a complete joke, court services cop on - "The other cases were put back to April 25 2019"

I worked at a popular, upper end, wedding venue, that hosted approximately 115 weddings a year, for 8 years, so have seen approx 1000 weddings, including ones I have attended. 2 were traveller weddings. 1 settled couple, 1 English Irish Traveller.

Ive had hassle, threats, fighting, blood, glassings, garda and ambulances called than I care for. Approximately once a month something major happened. But nothing at the traveller weddings.

Most of the hassle was from Armagh or Tyrone crowds.

McMurphy · 28-04-2018 10:06am

Wibbs wrote: »

They started thumping the heads off each other over the height of a bloody gravestone.

Not only that Wibbs, but it would seem that the bit of a kerfuffle was the result of some people deciding what rules do or don't apply to them.

outlining that there had been a problem with the headstone with two female family members wanting a bigger one than the four foot high one allowed at Sligo Cemetery

.

testicles · 28-04-2018 10:09am

This post has been deleted.

punisher5112 · 28-04-2018 10:11am

Has anyone ever been in the cemetery there or in Ballymote... It's ridiculous what they have as a headstone/grave.

Pepefrogok · 28-04-2018 10:17am

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I worked at a popular, upper end, wedding venue, that hosted approximately 115 weddings a year, for 8 years, so have seen approx 1000 weddings, including ones I have attended. 2 were traveller weddings. 1 settled couple, 1 English Irish Traveller.

Ive had hassle, threats, fighting, blood, glassings, garda and ambulances called than I care for. Approximately once a month something major happened. But nothing at the traveller weddings.

Most of the hassle was from Armagh or Tyrone crowds.

I am confused now, on one hand there is a absolute mountain of evidence to support the fact that travellers are overly violent especially at family events like weddings and funerals etc but then on the other hand we have your anecdote, I don't know what to believe!

handlemaster · 28-04-2018 10:31am

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-criticised-for-offensive-and-inappropriate-comments-about-travelling-community-36851440.html

It was unusual for a judge to say violence is a problem at traveller funerals , but his openness is welcomed. The comments that large numbers of Gardai attending such funerals is rediculous.

"Judge Kilrane asks about the numbers of gardaí that sometimes attend Traveller funerals and I would suggest that this is done on the assumption that there will be violence – which is prejudice in itself."

McMurphy · 28-04-2018 10:32am

3rd or 4th thread in less than an hour.

handlemaster · 28-04-2018 10:34am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

3rd or 4th thread in less than any hour.

Can we make it to 10 ?

McMurphy · 28-04-2018 10:35am

handlemaster wrote: »

Can we make it to 10 ?

Fingers crossed.

NIMAN · 28-04-2018 10:35am

Pavee Point - issuing comments when it suits them.

boombang · 28-04-2018 10:39am

Were the other threads locked?

While I'm not always the biggest fan of judges I suppose you'd have to say this fellow will know better than the average punter given the job he's in.

handlemaster · 28-04-2018 10:42am

boombang wrote: »

Were the other threads locked?

While I'm not always the biggest fan of judges I suppose you'd have to say this fellow will know better than the average punter given the job he's in.

I didnt actually see the other threads before putting this up. Anyhow your right. . Never seen or heard of fights at funerals only travellers Gardai are like the rest of us an easy time im sure they wouldnt be going to such gatherings if it werent necessary.

seachto7 · 28-04-2018 10:59am

testicles wrote: »

Those people are worse than travellers to be fair. They spent 30 years beating the ****e out of their neighbours because of perceived slights about religion.

Just look at the crowd Armagh and Tyrone get at GAA games thumping and abusing each other . On trains etc

Sofiztikated · 28-04-2018 11:02am

Pepefrogok wrote: »

I am confused now, on one hand there is a absolute mountain of evidence to support the fact that travellers are overly violent especially at family events like weddings and funerals etc but then on the other hand we have your anecdote, I don't know what to believe!

I'm not denying they have a problem, and when they get violent, they get going. I saw (in the same hotel) a group come in for dinner, and at one point, one woman lifted a steak knife and slashed her fella across the face, and when the bar manager went to them, yer man said "I've got 3 witnesses to say I fell down your stairs"

I'm just pointing out they're not alone in being ****ty people.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 28-04-2018 11:05am

His comments were said to be offensive by pavee point purely because they’re true and they don’t like being told what an uncultured shower of criminals travellers really are.

It’s no co-incidence that pubs and hotels close their doors when they know there is a traveller funeral in town. Traveller regularly complain they have to book christenings weddings etc under false names as hotel will refuse bookings if they realise it’s for a bunch of traveller who will likely thrash the place and leave unpaid bills and rightly so!!!

Travelers deserve all the contempt they get. When they start acting civilised and contributing the society they will then start to be accepted.

Graces7 · 28-04-2018 11:06am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Has anyone ever been in the cemetery there or in Ballymote... It's ridiculous what they have as a headstone/grave.

that is their way of honouring their dead. Their right and not to be mocked for it

Carlos Orange · 28-04-2018 11:11am

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I'm just pointing out they're not alone in being ****ty people.

Does anyone think they are?
Someone posted 15% of male prisoners are travellers. Obviously the other 85% are not.

iguana · 28-04-2018 11:27am

Graces7 wrote: »

that is their way of honouring their dead. Their right and not to be mocked for it

It's not their right if the rules of the property owner prohibit that though. That said, travellers aren't alone in thinking graveyard rules don't apply to them. There is a graveyard not too far from me which is meant to have a modest headstone at the top of each grave with each grave itself just simple lawn. But many families clearly ignore the rules. And I know it seems like people should be allowed to make a grave into the memorial they see fit. But the rules are there for a reason and breaking them makes the maintenance of the graveyard much more difficult for the caretakers and dishonours the families who specifically chose a simple graveyard.

suicide_circus · 28-04-2018 11:36am

Some cultures are better than others

NIMAN · 28-04-2018 11:40am

psinno wrote: »

Does anyone think they are?
Someone posted 15% of male prisoners are travellers. Obviously the other 85% are not.

But if they make up 2% of the population (I'm only guessing, not sure what % of the population class themselves as 'travellers'), then they have an unusually high percentage in prison compared to the national average.

Potential-Monke · 28-04-2018 11:46am

This is the part I loved from that wankbag Collins:

'"These comments also highlight the need for anti-racism training for judges which would include the fact that a person’s ethnicity is not relevant in court proceedings. No ethnic group is immune to criminal activity.'

Except when it is to defend their rights as travellers. I'll remember to remind him of his own comments next time this is brought up as a defence by one of them.

Varik · 28-04-2018 11:49am

NIMAN wrote: »

But if they make up 2% of the population (I'm only guessing, not sure what % of the population class themselves as 'travellers'), then they have an unusually high percentage in prison compared to the national average.

I think it's 0.5 to 1%.

So they're between 15 and 30 times more likely to be incarcerated.

28-04-2018 11:50am

While judges see a lot of criminals in their courts, they may be of the opinion that certain members of the community cause more trouble then others, from their experiences, they are supposed to be impartial.
They are supposed to judge each case on its on evidence.
So, I am not saying that kilraine is wrong or right in his analysis of cases he has seen before him, it's actually not his role to use his past experiences in one case.
If you know what I mean?
Say, for example, I am up in front of him for an offence, it wouldn't be correct for him to assume because I come from a certain estate, or background, that I am representative of everyone else from that estate/background.

I appreciate he may have personal experience, we all do, but when it comes to his job, he shouldn't reference it. It does reflect badly.

This is purely an observation on his job, & not any kind of commentary on travellers etc

punisher5112 · 28-04-2018 11:51am

Graces7 wrote: »

that is their way of honouring their dead. Their right and not to be mocked for it

Please show me where I in any way mocked it..

But in all honesty how can one that doesn't work afford so much???

85% unemployed.

Omackeral · 28-04-2018 12:04pm

psinno wrote: »

Does anyone think they are?
Someone posted 15% of male prisoners are travellers. Obviously the other 85% are not.

If that’s a defense, it’s a poor one. Look up what per capita means and crunch the numbers vs the general population.

You’ll get the usual defenders on here (who defend everything indefensible, tbh) saying travellers get less opportunities etc oh and the usual comparison with African Americans and all but what in the blue hell has that got to do with knocking the stuffing out of each other at weddings and funerals? How are settled people or society to blame for that?

wetlandsboy · 28-04-2018 12:05pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Please show me where I in any way mocked it..

But in all honesty how can one that doesn't work afford so much???

85% unemployed.

I think we all know the answer to that question.

McMurphy · 28-04-2018 12:08pm

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I'm not denying they have a problem, and when they get violent, they get going. I saw (in the same hotel) a group come in for dinner, and at one point, one woman lifted a steak knife and slashed her fella across the face, and when the bar manager went to them, yer man said "I've got 3 witnesses to say I fell down your stairs"

I'm just pointing out they're not alone in being ****ty people.

Falling down the stairs type injuries are often mistaken with steak knife slashes across ones face

Not the brightest of lads was he.

Roger Hassenforder · 28-04-2018 12:23pm

Poor auld Marty, even he must be getting embarrassed at this stage:

"These comments stereotype Travellers as inherently violent which is completely unfair as there are many events that take place in the Traveller community where there is no violence".

*Rollseyes

DEFTLEFTHAND · 28-04-2018 12:25pm

What race are travellers exactly?

They look white to me.

A few of them seem to carry that dark Irish gene. Many in my locality are actually quite good looking.

Seth Brundle · 28-04-2018 12:28pm

Graces7 wrote: »

punisher5112 wrote: »

Has anyone ever been in the cemetery there or in Ballymote... It's ridiculous what they have as a headstone/grave.

that is their way of honouring their dead. Their right and not to be mocked for it

There is a difference between honouring the dead tastefully and the relatively recent practice of erecting something Del Boy Trotter would put up!

Carlos Orange · 28-04-2018 12:59pm

NIMAN wrote: »

But if they make up 2% of the population (I'm only guessing, not sure what % of the population class themselves as 'travellers'), then they have an unusually high percentage in prison compared to the national average.

They are massively more likely to be in jail than non travellers. I think it is actually worse with female travellers than males iirc. I was replying to someone saying he was making the point that not all bad people are travellers by pointing out everyone knows that. Everyone also knows that as a group travellers are much more likely to be bad people [with being in jail a very easily measurable proxy for being a bad person]. You can also see it in domestic violence rates for example.

PCeeeee · 28-04-2018 1:01pm

Graces7 wrote: »

that is their way of honouring their dead. Their right and not to be mocked for it

IMO it is nothing to do with honouring their dead. It is a status symbol. Travellers flaunt their wealth wherever possible to other members of their community. Hence the weddings, communions, funeral extravaganzas. It's an opportunity to show how successful your own family and 'breed' (their word, not mine) are.

Atoms for Peace · 28-04-2018 1:06pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

There is a difference between honouring the dead tastefully and the relatively recent practice of erecting something Del Boy Trotter would put up!

Do they glow in the dark?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5_pcaXJIo8

CeilingFly · 28-04-2018 1:12pm

psinno wrote: »

Does anyone think they are?
Someone posted 15% of male prisoners are travellers. Obviously the other 85% are not.

On average 15% of the male adult prison population in 2016 were travellers.
For females it was 22%.

But prisoners change - its not the same people every year / month.

In excess of 30% of travellers have been in prison at some stage of their life. And that's just the convicted ones that got a prison sentence - many people get probation act applied.

Imagine if that was applied to the normal population - it would mean that 1.25 million people (out of 3.7m adults) would have to have a prison record to get to the average of travellers.

wexie · 28-04-2018 1:16pm

CeilingFly wrote: »

On average 15% of the male adult prison population in 2016 were travellers.
For females it was 22%.

But prisoners change - its not the same people every year / month.

In excess of 30% of travellers have been in prison at some stage of their life. And that's just the convicted ones that got a prison sentence - many people get probation act applied.

Imagine if that was applied to the normal population - it would mean that 1.25 million people (out of 3.7m adults) would have to have a prison record to get to the average of travellers.

But it's definitely nothing to do with the fact they feel laws just don't apply to them.

It's all just because they are being marginalized and the judiciary is overly biased in their dealings with travelers.

or at least that's what Pavee point would have you believe

BoJack Horseman · 28-04-2018 1:18pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

What race are travellers exactly.

Irish.

Dr Brown · 28-04-2018 1:20pm

I think the problem isn't the travellers but authorities who tolerate their criminality.

28-04-2018 1:20pm

I see John Connors on the front of the Star today acting as fair play man at a bareknuckle scrap. For a man who whines about being stereotyped he does a hell of a job living up to it.

Gravelly · 28-04-2018 1:22pm

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Do they glow in the dark?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5_pcaXJIo8

There's a graveyard in a town near me that has a massive traveller headstone that is draped with a set of glow in the dark rosary beads that are the size of a tow chain. I've seen people standing at the wall at night taking photographs of it.

Gravelly · 28-04-2018 1:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I see John Connors on the front of the Star today acting as fair play man at a bareknuckle scrap. For a man who whines about being stereotyped he does a hell of a job living up to it.

I'm sure he'll be on some chat show next weekend to explain to us how it is the "settled community's" fault that he was there.

Pavee point criticise judge for telling truth

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